07-11-13 11:50 PM
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  1. Skeevecr's Avatar
    It's part of Android so as long as you follow the lic it's fair game - and makes money to Google, remember...

    ...and this IS how Android 4.2 support should arrive, on-device loading, preferably even with Play Store. That and a 5" device and I'm willing to switch from Android. Anything less and I'm getting Sony's 6.4"Xperia Z Ultra in September.
    Access to the play store is not open source or part of the stuff you get as standard when you use android and anyone expecting such stuff when 10.2 comes with the JB update will be sorely mistaken.
    07-03-13 07:37 AM
  2. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Where? That would be the biggest idiocy, I swear - then BB is indeed toasted, they are so ****in' tone-def, utterly and hopelessly clueless.
    https://developer.blackberry.com/cas...ion/index.html

    As people have said, the average consumer doesn't care squat about screen resolution as long as it looks good and marketed in a unique way. Just throw out that it has a HD screen. Apple came up with a Retina display which has less pixels than HD. The average person doesn't know the difference between Retina, HD and Full HD. And it really doesn't matter as a person with 20/20 can't see the difference between the three anyway.
    doggy10 likes this.
    07-03-13 07:59 AM
  3. SuperionMaximus's Avatar
    https://developer.blackberry.com/cas...ion/index.html

    As people have said, the average consumer doesn't care squat about screen resolution as long as it looks good and marketed in a unique way. Just throw out that it has a HD screen. Apple came up with a Retina display which has less pixels than HD. The average person doesn't know the difference between Retina, HD and Full HD. And it really doesn't matter as a person with 20/20 can't see the difference between the three anyway.
    BlackBerry markets it as HD, Samsung claims theirs is FULL HD. Don't forget the competition.

    Also, do you think the average consumer is going to be happy to pay top dollar when the sales person tells them, don't buy it, it's not as good as [insert competing phone here]...

    Even if they don't care about the resolution, they might care about last years chipset in flagship phone in Q4 when there will be multiple options with this 2013 Qualcomm Snapdragon 600 and 800 chips in them.

    Will they care that the phone is thicker then competing phones? They sure pummeled the Lumia 920 for that. Oh, and it got criticized for weak specs too even though Nokia has their own snake oil marketing gimmick for their screens - Nokia ClearBlack display.

    All I'm saying is the A10 if it is the phone that people in this thread have seen when it launches and it is packing parts from Qualcomm's liquidation sale of last years remaining stock, it's going to be the absolute LAST choice this holiday season and will be an abysmal failure of a product.

    The Z10 was packing up to par specs as it has the same internals as a Galaxy S III and bests an iPhone 5 which is the phone it is clearly targeting based on screen size and dimensions of the phone. It is pretty much a flop at this point.

    The A10 is going to be even further behind in a more fiercely contested segment of the market. I am not holding much hope for that phone's success
    07-03-13 08:28 AM
  4. MisterMe11's Avatar
    Just out of curiosity, how does a phone manufacturer get access to Google Play on their products? Do they have to 'apply' to Google to get it?

    Access to the play store is not open source or part of the stuff you get as standard when you use android and anyone expecting such stuff when 10.2 comes with the JB update will be sorely mistaken.
    07-03-13 10:28 AM
  5. szlevi's Avatar
    https://developer.blackberry.com/cas...ion/index.html

    As people have said, the average consumer doesn't care squat about screen resolution as long as it looks good and marketed in a unique way. Just throw out that it has a HD screen. Apple came up with a Retina display which has less pixels than HD. The average person doesn't know the difference between Retina, HD and Full HD. And it really doesn't matter as a person with 20/20 can't see the difference between the three anyway.
    Wha... where do you get all this idiotic nonsense, seriously? Who are these mysterious "people" who "have said" all this clueless stuff that's completely the opposite of reality?

    It's 2013, not 2003 or 1993, everyday people use high-end smartphones for years now, they know them.

    I can only hope you don't represent the opinion of BB because if you do they are done, for good.
    07-03-13 01:31 PM
  6. szlevi's Avatar
    Access to the play store is not open source or part of the stuff you get as standard when you use android and anyone expecting such stuff when 10.2 comes with the JB update will be sorely mistaken.
    You're misunderstanding something, it's not about open source - access to the store is nothing different from accessing aka licensing any other Android piece: Google Play In-app Billing | Android Developers
    Now it's obvious if BB is not crazy they will talk to Google before put a full-blown store on their device as it wouldn't get past device filtering anyway but I don't think there's anything preventing BB from attempting it...
    07-03-13 01:37 PM
  7. szlevi's Avatar
    BlackBerry markets it as HD, Samsung claims theirs is FULL HD. Don't forget the competition.

    Also, do you think the average consumer is going to be happy to pay top dollar when the sales person tells them, don't buy it, it's not as good as [insert competing phone here]...

    Even if they don't care about the resolution, they might care about last years chipset in flagship phone in Q4 when there will be multiple options with this 2013 Qualcomm Snapdragon 600 and 800 chips in them.

    Will they care that the phone is thicker then competing phones? They sure pummeled the Lumia 920 for that. Oh, and it got criticized for weak specs too even though Nokia has their own snake oil marketing gimmick for their screens - Nokia ClearBlack display.

    All I'm saying is the A10 if it is the phone that people in this thread have seen when it launches and it is packing parts from Qualcomm's liquidation sale of last years remaining stock, it's going to be the absolute LAST choice this holiday season and will be an abysmal failure of a product.

    The Z10 was packing up to par specs as it has the same internals as a Galaxy S III and bests an iPhone 5 which is the phone it is clearly targeting based on screen size and dimensions of the phone. It is pretty much a flop at this point.

    The A10 is going to be even further behind in a more fiercely contested segment of the market. I am not holding much hope for that phone's success
    ^^^This.
    I understadn - heck, from that 2 weeks spent with a Z10 I know - that BB10 runs better on the same hardware but people compare specs, iditoic sales people in stores push phones with higher specs or comission, those are facts.
    Simply BB cannot afford touting another device as premium handset at top-tier prices running on last year's hardware platform - that's mid-range this year, period, in the eyes of everybody, regardless of actual BB10 performance, the suits must understand this.

    They need to re-establish BB as a top-tier vendor, bring out A10 on Snapdragon 800 and have top support for 6-8 months (10.3 by Nov-Dec?) and charge for it ($700?) - that's a lot better than having a 'meh' reaction again.. even if A10 arrives with a Snapdragon 600 it's just playing catchup in the lower high-end by the Fall (Sony, Samsung, LG are rolling out 800-based devices) - and if the it comes with anything less than 600-class hardware then BB10 is done as a premium contender, period, by the end of this year already.
    07-03-13 01:50 PM
  8. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Just out of curiosity, how does a phone manufacturer get access to Google Play on their products? Do they have to 'apply' to Google to get it?
    Yes. The phone needs to meet Google's standards before they allow Play to run on it.

    There are apparently all kinds of cheapie Chinese handsets that run various versions of Android, but Google does not certify them so they do not offer Google Play.
    MisterMe11 likes this.
    07-03-13 01:59 PM
  9. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    ^^^This.
    I understadn - heck, from that 2 weeks spent with a Z10 I know - that BB10 runs better on the same hardware but people compare specs, iditoic sales people in stores push phones with higher specs or comission, those are facts.
    Simply BB cannot afford touting another device as premium handset at top-tier prices running on last year's hardware platform - that's mid-range this year, period, in the eyes of everybody, regardless of actual BB10 performance, the suits must understand this.

    They need to re-establish BB as a top-tier vendor, bring out A10 on Snapdragon 800 and have top support for 6-8 months (10.3 by Nov-Dec?) and charge for it ($700?) - that's a lot better than having a 'meh' reaction again.. even if A10 arrives with a Snapdragon 600 it's just playing catchup in the lower high-end by the Fall (Sony, Samsung, LG are rolling out 800-based devices) - and if the it comes with anything less than 600-class hardware then BB10 is done as a premium contender, period, by the end of this year already.
    No, not "everybody" compares specs. The vast majority of customers--whether they're buying a car or a phone--will care more about styling and overall usability. Yes, it makes an easy selling point to say a given handset has the "best" spec on one area or another, but for the vast majority of the non-enthusiast market would have a hard time describing the difference between a dual-core phone and a quad-core.

    Not dismissing the argument; with the Aristo BB needs to actually reach the "spec-heads" (as I refer to them personally), because they need that group to proclaim the phone's coolness to the rest of the world. I wish BB luck on that mission, but I'm hopeful.
    LWKING likes this.
    07-03-13 02:03 PM
  10. szlevi's Avatar
    No, not "everybody" compares specs. The vast majority of customers--whether they're buying a car or a phone--will care more about styling and overall usability.
    It's not a car, it's a phone, lot less of an investment so I guess people less strict about it but OTOH it gets more use than a car so switching OS is a lot harder for everyday people than picking a different car.
    Next thing is the lateness: people already have a smartphone, most of them Android or iOS so like it or not that's what you are measured up against - and when you have the disadvantage of the newcomer with an unknown OS, lack of familiar UI etc then you ideally have better specs, camera etc but at least match the reigning champions in your price tier - BlackBerry does not even match them, it's running on a year-old hardware while cost the same or more than established choices, with the fraction of the apps etc etc.

    Having a top-tier phone at least mitigates two of the main issues and provides visibility for the brand, positive reviews etc can generate a lot of interest.

    Yes, it makes an easy selling point to say a given handset has the "best" spec on one area or another, but for the vast majority of the non-enthusiast market would have a hard time describing the difference between a dual-core phone and a quad-core.
    You're missing the point: it's not about explaining the difference, it's about choosing between a dual-core and a quad-core when they cost the same - and 99% will choose the quad-core, you know that.

    Not dismissing the argument; with the Aristo BB needs to actually reach the "spec-heads" (as I refer to them personally), because they need that group to proclaim the phone's coolness to the rest of the world. I wish BB luck on that mission, but I'm hopeful.
    Exactly.
    mithrazor likes this.
    07-03-13 03:21 PM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Wha... where do you get all this idiotic nonsense, seriously? Who are these mysterious "people" who "have said" all this clueless stuff that's completely the opposite of reality?

    It's 2013, not 2003 or 1993, everyday people use high-end smartphones for years now, they know them.

    I can only hope you don't represent the opinion of BB because if you do they are done, for good.
    The "people" who "have said" this are scientists. If you took the time to learn, you would learn about the limitations of the human eye.

    Dr. Raymond Soneira, president and CEO of DisplayMate, a company that produces calibration software for various displays, says that most people won’t be able to notice the difference between a smartphone with a 720p display and one with 1080p.
    Dr. Soneira says that the only way you would be able to tell a slight difference is if you had perfect 20/20 vision or have the screen up close to your eyes, and even then it’s still slightly hard to tell the difference. But obviously, most users hold their phones at least a foot or so away from their faces, which at that point, there’s no way users could tell the difference between clarity, and the human eye usually can’t process anything more than 229ppi in normal circumstances, which means even the iPhone 5‘s 326ppi resolution is a bit overkill.
    1080p smartphone displays offer no visual difference over 720p - SlashGear
    07-03-13 04:13 PM
  12. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    It's not a car, it's a phone, lot less of an investment so I guess people less strict about it but OTOH it gets more use than a car so switching OS is a lot harder for everyday people than picking a different car.
    Next thing is the lateness: people already have a smartphone, most of them Android or iOS so like it or not that's what you are measured up against - and when you have the disadvantage of the newcomer with an unknown OS, lack of familiar UI etc then you ideally have better specs, camera etc but at least match the reigning champions in your price tier - BlackBerry does not even match them, it's running on a year-old hardware while cost the same or more than established choices, with the fraction of the apps etc etc...
    Actually, market penetration of smartphones is still fairly low. I think roughly half of North American wireless customers are on a smartphone, so there are still hundreds of millions of new customers out there.

    TBH, I think that's who BB has mainly been trying to reach with the BB10 to start; people who haven't had a smartphone experience before, or users who are on old versions of Android or iOS, and who haven't invested a lot on apps. Yes, such customers actually exist, particularly among older users.


    You're missing the point: it's not about explaining the difference, it's about choosing between a dual-core and a quad-core when they cost the same - and 99% will choose the quad-core, you know that.
    Maybe the dual-core/quad-core comparison wasn't a great one, but in most cases quoting specs to a customer is going to go over their heads unless you can link it to a specific benefit (and, btw, even a dual-core can be claimed to have better battery life than a quad-core; an important consideration for some customers).
    07-03-13 07:17 PM
  13. szlevi's Avatar
    The "people" who "have said" this are scientists. If you took the time to learn, you would learn about the limitations of the human eye.
    Priceless... FYI I work for a high-end scientific visualization firm for more than a decade.

    You do realize he's talking about perception versus my point about real estate, right? I doub it...

    Of course, he's actually a smart guy so he then readily confirms my point about resolution/screen real estate:

    "However, Dr. Soneira does mention one advantage of a 1080p smartphone display that would have greater impact over a 720p screen, and that is more room for various user interface elements, especially for viewing websites on a mobile browser. More text would show up on the screen at once, and higher-resolution images show in full on a 1080p screen."

    Reading and interpreting your own linked material first and only replying afterwards is not a bad idea, trust me - especially when you have little clue about the subject...

    Sent from my LT30p using CB Forums mobile app
    07-03-13 08:29 PM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Priceless... FYI I work for a high-end scientific visualization firm for more than a decade.

    You do realize he's talking about perception versus my point about real estate, right? I doub it...

    Of course, he's actually a smart guy so he then readily confirms my point about resolution/screen real estate:

    "However, Dr. Soneira does mention one advantage of a 1080p smartphone display that would have greater impact over a 720p screen, and that is more room for various user interface elements, especially for viewing websites on a mobile browser. More text would show up on the screen at once, and higher-resolution images show in full on a 1080p screen."

    Reading and interpreting your own linked material first and only replying afterwards is not a bad idea, trust me - especially when you have little clue about the subject...

    Sent from my LT30p using CB Forums mobile app
    The real estate isn't what you think it is. And viewing a webpage with higher resolution doesn't make it easier to read as it will scale the font smaller and smaller. More text in the same size space (inch wise) makes it harder, not easier to read. Yes. You really have to think about the end result which you have not.

    So his two points are you can't see the difference and you will have more smaller text in web pages.
    07-03-13 08:58 PM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Priceless... FYI I work for a high-end scientific visualization firm for more than a decade.
    So you admit that ppi of 295 and over is noticeable to a person with 20/20 vision?
    07-03-13 09:14 PM
  16. szlevi's Avatar
    The real estate isn't what you think it is. And viewing a webpage with higher resolution doesn't make it easier to read as it will scale the font smaller and smaller. More text in the same size space (inch wise) makes it harder, not easier to read. Yes. You really have to think about the end result which you have not.

    So his two points are you can't see the difference and you will have more smaller text in web pages.
    No comment, this is truly priceless...
    07-03-13 10:45 PM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    No comment, this is truly priceless...
    You are right. You can't see the difference between 720 and 1080 if the ppi is greater than ~250 and web pages will end up with really small text.

    I have attached an image of this thread. One in 720 and one in 1080. I am sure you want the 1080 one to be your experience on the phone.
    Attached Thumbnails Astro /A10 exists. Held one today-720vs1080browser.png  
    07-03-13 11:18 PM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Have you people seen the last quarterly numbers?

    Do we really need to discuss the need for high-end hardware, if the price is high-end?

    Before knowing these numbers, I was skeptical, about the specs the A10 will use.
    Now, with them in mind, it becomes hillarious, for people to defend the specs it will use.

    It will be the typical BlackBerry, offering far less than the competition does, for a lot more, considering the price.
    I really thought they understood from the PlayBook that this doesn't work.
    Then they bring me the mostly competitf Z10 and I thougt they got it.

    Now I am reading about the A10 and his personal defender Bluenoser63.
    If the workers at BlackBerry think like he does, it's already over.
    If BlackBerry really prices the A10 comparably to the new iPhone, this will be headdesk material.

    Nobody can expect the consumer, to pay more, for less, if you aren't Apple.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 01:23 AM
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Have you people seen the last quarterly numbers?

    Do we really need to discuss the need for high-end hardware, if the price is high-end?

    Before knowing these numbers, I was skeptical, about the specs the A10 will use.
    Now, with them in mind, it becomes hillarious, for people to defend the specs it will use.

    It will be the typical BlackBerry, offering far less than the competition does, for a lot more, considering the price.
    I really thought they understood from the PlayBook that this doesn't work.
    Then they bring me the mostly competitf Z10 and I thougt they got it.

    Now I am reading about the A10 and his personal defender Bluenoser63.
    If the workers at BlackBerry think like he does, it's already over.
    If BlackBerry really prices the A10 comparably to the new iPhone, this will be headdesk material.

    Nobody can expect the consumer, to pay more, for less, if you aren't Apple.

    Posted via CB10
    Have you see in the numbers where the sales were affected by having a 720 screen and nothing to do with limited apps? The only spec that I have talked about is 720 vs 1080. Pump it up in every other spec area, I don't have any statement on those. It is just that another screen resolution will not benefit the customer but will fragment app development and limit app, which will hurt customers and sales.
    07-04-13 06:09 AM
  20. letmein13's Avatar
    I hope they will release one model A10 for every region because it's better and easier for everybody to receive OS updates.
    07-04-13 08:30 AM
  21. kfh227's Avatar
    You are right. You can't see the difference between 720 and 1080 if the ppi is greater than ~250 and web pages will end up with really small text.

    I have attached an image of this thread. One in 720 and one in 1080. I am sure you want the 1080 one to be your experience on the phone.
    Sorry, I'm viewing this on my laptop.

    So, I placed the laptop at 5' away and the higher res pic look identical to the 720p screen at 3'.

    Get it. You can not change how many "pixels" are in your eyes. People that argue against this are saying that the eye works in a way that it does not. Psycologists actually study this stuff. It is not bull****. It is how your body works. Like that blind spot in your eye. You know about that right? everyone has it. And it's pretty damned close to the center of your eye.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29
    07-06-13 01:28 AM
  22. kfh227's Avatar
    had to so some reading.

    For a Z10, more pixels on it;s display does nothing unless you hold it less than a foot from your face.

    Still reading.
    07-06-13 01:36 AM
  23. alternator77's Avatar
    You are right. You can't see the difference between 720 and 1080 if the ppi is greater than ~250 and web pages will end up with really small text.

    I have attached an image of this thread. One in 720 and one in 1080. I am sure you want the 1080 one to be your experience on the phone.
    Thats what reader mode is for...also no one uses an hd resolution to read its for video consumption.

    Posted via CB10
    07-06-13 04:16 PM
  24. Double_J75's Avatar
    I believe sales would be better if the device had a 1080p screen vs 720. I think many people do check specs OR listen to the person who is trying to sell the device.


    Not everyone will be swayed obviously but many will be. BlackBerry has mentioned before they are not in the spec race. They will never beat out android phones with hardware specs and the won't have the same draw as apple.

    Posted via CB10
    07-06-13 04:44 PM
  25. Korepab's Avatar
    If it is indeed 720 instead of 1080, it would be smart for BlackBerry not to mention the number but instead just market it as Full HD or something along those lines.

    Apple does a fantastic job at this.
    thekidshop likes this.
    07-06-13 05:34 PM
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