07-20-13 02:13 PM
118 ... 2345
tools
  1. Pilchard's Avatar
    Perhaps you should look at their cash levels for the last few quarters, they are simply not burning through their cash at a very high rate and that is despite them having to launch bb10, some of it is them cutting costs, but their revenue is now increasing again as they move onto higher margin bb10 devices.
    The hardware is higher margin, but there are no associated service revenues for BIS like there were before, so no recurring revenues which were one of Blackberry's great strengths. Also big price drops for the Z10 indicate hardware margins are dropping.

    I really don't want to be on the wrong side of this debate as we are all (presumably) Blackberry fans, but it isn't looking good. How does Blackberry market it's devices head to head with 500 million dollars worth of Moto X marketing spend, regardless of specs?
    07-14-13 01:43 PM
  2. th3h0ff's Avatar
    I feel you on there. But using the same TV anology, say for instance the 1080p led TV has a problem playing 720p without the broadcasters having to do extra work on their end and the manufacturers told the broadcasters that 720p will be the standard for them to broadcast on. Do you still launch a 1080p tv with 2 or 3 channels (which in the phone's case would be apps) to be able to watch on just to be 'Mr. Me Too' and say "look we have a 1080p TV?" And I get what you're saying about wanting the best because right now I've been looking around for a projector for my living room and I was looking at the 1080p projectors but then I had to catch myself. I had to tell myself why would I pay all that extra $ for a 1080p and I don't even own a blu_ray player when I can get a 720p projector a lot cheaper and that's what my dish hd box broadcasts anyway is 720p so there's no benifit in getting a 1080p. So I see what you are saying because I was thinking the same way as you described. But looking at the big picture, what will make consumers and tech blogs/reviewers bash the A10 more, a 720p screen or far less apps than bb10 has now?

    Posted via CB10
    Good point... I just feel like that, in your example, then it would be on the manufacturers engineers to adjust their product accordingly and make it work correctly as other manufacturers have proven capable of doing. Dont get me wrong I completely understand what your getting at in that BB may not have the software optimizations integrated into BB10 to accommodate scaling of existing apps or core processes to adjust for a 1080 resolution device. Its just that they should not let software limitations dictate what their "High End" device can be... The market dictates those specs and the manufacturers make adjustments. But I think you may have nailed the problem for the time being...
    07-14-13 02:19 PM
  3. notfanboy's Avatar
    If they didn't cut thousand jobs last year, would they still have 3 billion dollars? I'm sure they still have billion dollars left but the amount is going to be less than 3 billion dollar for sure because they have to pay salary and other benefits for thousand employees.
    Instead of 3 billion dollars, they would have had 2.85 billion dollars. This is assuming a generous $150k/year cost per employee.
    mastermike87 likes this.
    07-14-13 02:25 PM
  4. mastermike87's Avatar
    Instead of 3 billion dollars, they would have had 2.85 billion dollars. This is assuming a generous $150k/year cost per employee.
    This.

    Posted via CB10
    07-14-13 02:55 PM
  5. LtHavoc21's Avatar
    I love how everyone has opinions of specs... with no confirmed specs. Its like complaining about a Dev-Alpha but its worse because no one knows the actual specs that will go out to consumers in the final A10 build
    To be frank, before the Z10 was released, the specs that were leaked were pretty spot-on. Although, again, I do agree. This is all mere speculation.

    Posted with my weapon of choice, Z10.
    Unbiased Tech likes this.
    07-14-13 03:20 PM
  6. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Perhaps you should look at their cash levels for the last few quarters, they are simply not burning through their cash at a very high rate and that is despite them having to launch bb10, some of it is them cutting costs, but their revenue is now increasing again as they move onto higher margin bb10 devices.
    Perhaps you should look at what made up their cash and "short term investments". They received a $535m one off Tax Refund that quarter. They won't be getting that again. Without that, and a couple of other creative accounting moves they would be closer to 2bn in cash - in one quarter losing 33% of their funds. Smart money says they have about 3 quarters left before draining the tank.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/1528...l-as-they-seem
    07-14-13 11:03 PM
  7. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Perhaps you should look at what made up their cash and "short term investments". They received a $535m one off Tax Refund that quarter. They won't be getting that again. Without that, and a couple of other creative accounting moves they would be closer to 2bn in cash - in one quarter losing 33% of their funds. Smart money says they have about 3 quarters left before draining the tank.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/1528...l-as-they-seem
    Thank you loads.

    Those who keep touting the 3bill and no debt need to realse that BIS and its associated ancient hardware were killing this company YEARS ago.

    These devices should have been out in 2011. The plug on BIS should have been pulled in an expeditious manner as soon as possible after the October '11 outage. 2012 was catastrophic.

    That cash can be gone in the blink of an eye with one bad lawsuit or just through overhead. All bulls buying stock aside, I don't know that BlackBerry can pull through. It might just be too late.

    I WILL buy the Aristo. That's all I can do.

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2
    MarsupilamiX and kevinnugent like this.
    07-15-13 05:42 AM
  8. Qaxl's Avatar

    I WILL buy the Aristo. That's all I can do.
    What you can also do is be vocal about what your expect to see when you buy a high end flagship, and if you think that BBRY is being Nave holding back on the hardware, then let them know what you think.
    07-15-13 08:56 AM
  9. qbnkelt's Avatar
    What you can also do is be vocal about what your expect to see when you buy a high end flagship, and if you think that BBRY is being Nave holding back on the hardware, then let them know what you think.
    LOL!!!! I've got the battle scars to prove I've never been shy to voice my opinion .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    Qaxl and MarsupilamiX like this.
    07-15-13 09:07 AM
  10. Qaxl's Avatar
    LOL!!!! I've got the battle scars to prove I've never been shy to voice my opinion .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    I just hope im not crunchy.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-15-13 11:18 AM
  11. mastermike87's Avatar
    Perhaps you should look at what made up their cash and "short term investments". They received a $535m one off Tax Refund that quarter. They won't be getting that again. Without that, and a couple of other creative accounting moves they would be closer to 2bn in cash - in one quarter losing 33% of their funds. Smart money says they have about 3 quarters left before draining the tank.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/1528...l-as-they-seem

    I refer you to the Air Canada example. Even if they burn 1 billion a quarter for th next three quarters while continuing not to amass debt, even if they were on the brink, my guess is the government of Canada would be the first to back them up (or negotiate) a suitable buyout.


    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 11:25 AM
  12. mastermike87's Avatar
    Thank you loads.

    Those who keep touting the 3bill and no debt need to realse that BIS and its associated ancient hardware were killing this company YEARS ago.

    These devices should have been out in 2011. The plug on BIS should have been pulled in an expeditious manner as soon as possible after the October '11 outage. 2012 was catastrophic.

    That cash can be gone in the blink of an eye with one bad lawsuit or just through overhead. All bulls buying stock aside, I don't know that BlackBerry can pull through. It might just be too late.

    I WILL buy the Aristo. That's all I can do.

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2
    Yes, nothing screams consumer confidence in a product like a business abandoning it's go-to product/service when it hits a snag.

    I sincerely hope you don't work in anything related to business or management.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-13 11:28 AM
  13. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    For what its worth im not suggesting for a moment, that they should upgrade to a 1080p screen for the A10, in fact i believe that their strategy of keeping the same screen res across devices is admirable. I even wrote a piece suggesting that they should not even attempt to make a next gen PlayBook in 2013 due to the fact that they need to keep the 720p res.(link is in my sig if u wanna read)

    I am just stating that when a customer goes out to buy a device at a store, or when various media outlets will review the device, even if the entire device is awesome, it will be said the screen resolution is not up to the mark of a 2013 flagship device.

    Secondly, you are right that Apple does not get into the spec wars. But they do make a big fuss about the hardware. BlackBerry on the other hand seems to think they can ride this out only on the basis of their software. Lets see how various manufacturers deal with the hardware portion of their devices.

    Apple - Insists on making the thinnest, lightest, most ergonomic, glass and aluminium clad with premium materials such as sapphire for the camera lens. Still has arguably one of the best smartphone cameras even at 8MP.

    Samsung - S4 gets bashed for using plasticy body, but only because people want the exterior to be as good as the internal specs which are industry leading, for example using the worlds first octa core mobile chip on their S4. A 1080p screen and 13MP camera. If you are looking fore the best in specs, this is the one to beat. They also have an "Active" version which is dust and water resistant and a Zoom version which is more camera less phone.

    HTC - The HTC one just took the hardware game to a whole new level, beautifully crafted all aluminum device, S4 matching specs in most cases, comes with beats audio whatever that means, front facing stereo speakers, and new camera tech using Ultra Pixels. even has Wifi ac standard. Quite possibly it has the highest Pixel density of any phone at 469 ppi.

    Sony - Xperia line first had that light strip, the Xperia Z is all glass construction, a 13 MP camera, again a 1080p screen. This phone is dust proof and water resistant upto 1 meter, the Xperia ZR goes one up and lets u take your phone to pool with u with underwater photography.

    Nokia - they were having a hard time moving their Lumia's ( all dual cores ouch is there a pattern here linking low specs with low sales? ) we all know the bomb they dropped with the Lumia 1020. As Engadget puts it "The Mobile Mega Pixel wars just went Thermo Nuclear"

    BlackBerry Aristo A10 - I'm sorry but I really am drawing a blank here. This phone will be priced like a flagship if that counts.

    You have to realise that Brand Perception comes from the highest end device and has a trickle down effect. People would buy the S4 mini because they like the S4 even though both devices dont share a single any of the internals, similarly people who like a BMW M3 might go to purchase a 1- series BMW over a similar Mercedes.

    You need a device to capture the imaginations of the people, you need them to look at it and fall in love instantly, and if you are building a flagship device, you need to make sure the hardware is relevant to the market, you cant just let the software do all the talking, mind you all those above devices (Except the Lumia) come from the greatest of current eco systems, and app libraries. Even the Lumia can be said to have a better app library than BB10 because all of its apps are native.

    So at the end of 2013, BB10 will probably have the Highest Costing Flagship Device, the Lowest Specced Hardware, and the Smallest App Library. That is not a pretty picture.
    Here, I'll help you out a bit.

    BlackBerry A10 - peek and flow.
    07-15-13 12:30 PM
  14. Qaxl's Avatar
    Here, I'll help you out a bit.

    BlackBerry A10 - peek and flow.
    i will need a bit more help than that .... im looking for hardware awesomeness.

    [Edit] BB10 is already out there on the Z10 competing with them, and we can see the sales figures aren't very promising. The OS will take time to mature, there are still alot of kinks to iron out. meanwhile BlackBerry seem to have lost the plot and given up on making awesome hardware. ... im not talking about meh just good enough hardware, im talking about inducing lust in the customers, if they are on the border concerning the OS, great hardware will only increase sales.
    07-15-13 12:43 PM
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Yes, nothing screams consumer confidence in a product like a business abandoning it's go-to product/service when it hits a snag.

    I sincerely hope you don't work in anything related to business or management.

    Posted via CB10
    LOL!!! Yes, love....you could say I work in IT/business/management.

    That's how I know that the last thing you want to do is to continue life support in a product that has caused the near collapse of the company. I also know that in attempting to continue to pretty up spaghetti code, you are essentially doing nothing more than putting lipstick on a pig....if I may mix my metaphors.

    So...the future of the company is BB10. Commit to that. Put legacy where it consumers decided it is, by the large majority...EOL. Because legacy nearly killed it.
    kevinnugent and MarsupilamiX like this.
    07-15-13 01:04 PM
  16. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    i will need a bit more help than that .... im looking for hardware awesomeness.
    In case you missed the sarcasm, I was trying to make a point that peek and flow are really the only things it has going for it. Not a big selling point
    Qaxl likes this.
    07-15-13 01:15 PM
  17. Nathan Bael's Avatar
    What you can also do is be vocal about what your expect to see when you buy a high end flagship, and if you think that BBRY is being Nave holding back on the hardware, then let them know what you think.
    But do they listen when it comes to hardware?
    Qaxl likes this.
    07-15-13 01:24 PM
  18. Qaxl's Avatar
    In case you missed the sarcasm, I was trying to make a point that peek and flow are really the only things it has going for it. Not a big selling point
    Your signature must have distracted me, i mean .... thats tragic !! Guess Im gonna have to think up nice baby names then go to each website and create accounts then save them in password keeper

    But do they listen when it comes to hardware?
    They sure cant listen if u dont say anything, if there is enough noise, anything can be heard.
    MasterOfBinary likes this.
    07-15-13 02:38 PM
  19. anon(2729369)'s Avatar
    ...
    They sure cant listen if u dont say anything, if there is enough noise, anything can be heard.
    Too late now anyway, but since they're at revision 4 for the Aristo, I guess they've been listening and trying to please their user base.
    07-15-13 02:58 PM
  20. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Here's an honest question.....
    Has BlackBerry ever come out and actually said publicly that the A10 will be their new flagship phone or is that something that has been assumed by those that are supposedly "in the know" and privy to some leaks?
    Is it possible that BlackBerry's intention all along with the A10 was really only to make a 5+ inch screen phone with slightly better specs just to handle battery life and performance issues that tend to come to light after the initial release of any new platform etc.
    Are these flagship threads just a case of BlackBerry fans thinking the A10 is something that it was/is never intended to be?
    Just my musings

    Posted via CB10
    People think A10 needs to be a flagship phone because BlackBerry doesn't have one
    Do you guys even understand the term "flagship"?
    07-15-13 03:16 PM
  21. marlowe9810's Avatar
    Hi Kevin,

    I think the 535 million is not a one time credit as the tax code for Canada differs with respect to R&D spending. That was already discussed at seekingalpha.
    07-15-13 03:26 PM
  22. aha's Avatar
    Do you guys even understand the term "flagship"?
    Your point being?
    07-15-13 03:29 PM
  23. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Do you guys even understand the term "flagship"?
    The flagships were the Nia, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria.....

    The had cute wee thimamajiggies on those loooooooooong sticks.....



    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2
    07-15-13 03:42 PM
  24. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Your point being?
    My point is that it's hard to have a logical discussion when people say illogical things.
    07-15-13 04:19 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    What you can also do is be vocal about what your expect to see when you buy a high end flagship, and if you think that BBRY is being Nave holding back on the hardware, then let them know what you think.
    BlackBerry doesn't care. They think that no matter what they launch for a Flagship, and no matter how far the specs fall below the completions flagship, that they should be able to charge the same amount as Apple or Samsung. Their ego is too big to accept that they are no longer an iconic brand and they either need to be on par spec wise to demand top dollar (and they probably still need to come in cheaper because of the name at the bottom of the device and the infant OS and ecosystem), or they need to win customers with price if they put out devices with lower specs. People don't care how much the OS is to make and support, all they know is Samsung is $X and BlackBerry is $Y and if Y is greater than or equal to X, most people are going to pick X!

    Posted via CB10
    Qaxl likes this.
    07-15-13 04:20 PM
118 ... 2345

Similar Threads

  1. BlackBerry A10
    By vietnamesetan in forum BlackBerry Z30
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-18-13, 04:33 PM
  2. A Surprising Response to the Aristo at Engadget
    By Stephen Severino in forum General BlackBerry News, Discussion & Rumors
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-15-13, 07:42 PM
  3. Z10 will not send email to two contacts
    By fsutton999 in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-14-13, 01:03 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-14-13, 11:43 AM
  5. iMessages from an iPhone not received on my Q10
    By harrisnyc in forum BlackBerry Q10
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-14-13, 10:30 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD