12-02-13 09:53 AM
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  1. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    So you are trying to compete with useless specs. Are you demanding that the gpu supports 64-bit colour so it can have more colour bits than any other phone?
    Strawman. Nice try. 1080p isn't "more than any phone", it's about equal to most 5" phones.

    And here's something to try to wrap your head around: 1080p is feasible, 4K isn't yet. 32-bit colour is feasible, 64-bit colour isn't. Quad-core is feasible, 100-core isn't. Nobody is saying BB should spend $10K per phone just to make it fastest, but is it too hard to accept the fact that the rumoured A10 specs are below average? And it will likely sell for $700, which makes it hardly worth it?
    Harley Kid, mithrazor and imcurved like this.
    07-15-13 05:03 PM
  2. Harley Kid's Avatar
    yes but you dont speak for everyone and WE want a bigger device maybe.
    INDEED! Some of us are rather stout and find that a >4.0" screen is less than functional I use my phone regularly to view drawings and PDF files and a larger (even slightly) screen would be more than appreciated. So, for those of YOU that wish for the smaller screen, the Z10 is there for you. Yet, for someone like me, I have been holding out for just this device. Now to actually see the true specs rather than getting wound up on speculation is the next task at hand
    DYLANHABKIRK likes this.
    07-15-13 05:12 PM
  3. Martin Green's Avatar
    Only a few tech geeks even know the difference. The general public does not. A unsophisticated consumer as you said doesn't know about gpu processing, but they know about 720p v 1080p? What the BB10 platform needs is apps and marketing. A 1080p screen will make zero difference.
    EVERYBODY knows the difference between 1080 and 720p (or think they do). They have been indoctrinated for a decade that a 1080p TV is better than a 720p one, even though at normal viewing distances it is barely discernable there too.

    The 5" 1080p super handsets are the realm of the spec counters. If they are willing to pay the premium for a big screen they want the best of everything (in their perception). To think otherwise is wishful thinking on BlackBerry's part and dooms the A10 to failure.

    Posted via CB10
    imcurved likes this.
    07-15-13 08:59 PM
  4. Martin Green's Avatar
    So you are trying to compete with useless specs. Are you demanding that the gpu supports 64-bit colour so it can have more colour bits than any other phone?
    I gotta say, some people seem to be purposely obtuse. From a technology and visibility standpoint I say again, 1080p is meaningless. From a marketing perspective for a top-tier phablet it is CRUCIAL!

    And yes, if the marketers managed to convince the spec-counters that the best phones have 64bit colour, then BlackBerry would have to go there too.

    I bet you have a 1080p TV in your living room and wouldn't settle for a 720p model, even though they are demonstrably indistinguishable at normal viewing distances.

    Posted via CB10
    imcurved likes this.
    07-15-13 09:05 PM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I gotta say, some people seem to be purposely obtuse. From a technology and visibility standpoint I say again, 1080p is meaningless. From a marketing perspective for a top-tier phablet it is CRUCIAL!
    You must be a marketer. Selling stuff that no one needs.

    And yes, if the marketers managed to convince the spec-counters that the best phones have 64bit colour, then BlackBerry would have to go there too.
    You do realize that the human eye can't even see 32-bit colours? The human eye can see about 15 million colours. 16.7million colours is 32-bit. That is the sad thing about marketing.

    I bet you have a 1080p TV in your living room and wouldn't settle for a 720p model, even though they are demonstrably indistinguishable at normal viewing distances.

    Posted via CB10
    Nope. No 1080 here. Just an HD.
    07-15-13 09:40 PM
  6. Martin Green's Avatar
    You must be a marketer. Selling stuff that no one needs.

    You do realize that the human eye can't even see 32-bit colours? The human eye can see about 15 million colours. 16.7million colours is 32-bit. That is the sad thing about marketing.

    Nope. No 1080 here. Just an HD.
    And you my friend, are clearly a jerk. Ad-hominem attacks don't advance your case one iota. As a matter of fact I'm not in marketing. I'm a developer, restricting the number of resolution options actually makes life easier for me. Even so, I am not naive enough to claim that just because there is no scientific or technical reason for a 1080p screen, that there isn't a market for it, and that at the high end of the market it isn't expected.

    You can spout all the statistics you want, it doesn't change reality. The people who buy phablets will choose a 1080p device over a 720p one nine times out of ten. No, it's not an intelligent or informed choice, but wishing it wasn't so and rattling your sabre doesn't alter reality to your liking.

    And WTH is "an HD"?

    Posted via CB10
    imcurved and MarsupilamiX like this.
    07-15-13 11:12 PM
  7. imcurved's Avatar
    As a matter of fact I'm not in marketing. I'm a developer, restricting the number of resolution options actually makes life easier for me. Even so, I am not naive enough to claim that just because there is no scientific or technical reason for a 1080p screen, that there isn't a market for it, and that at the high end of the market it isn't expected.

    Posted via CB10
    Can't agree more.

    Post via CB Z10
    07-16-13 01:01 AM
  8. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    You must be a marketer. Selling stuff that no one needs.
    Seriously, what do you have against marketers? If you said that to my girlfriend (a management/marketing major) I'd kick your ***.

    You must think you're pretty special to not need them, even though they're the people that keep companies in business. What's one of the biggest things people complain about being the reason Z10 didn't sell well? Oh yea, the marketing department.
    07-16-13 02:30 AM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Even so, I am not naive enough to claim that just because there is no scientific or technical reason for a 1080p screen, that there isn't a market for it, and that at the high end of the market it isn't expected.
    You just said it. There is no reason for 1080p. The world would be a better place if you spent time trying to educate consumers about that fact rather than trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

    And WTH is "an HD"?
    Don't you even that 720p is HD? In that case, 1080p is Full HD.
    07-16-13 06:35 AM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Seriously, what do you have against marketers? If you said that to my girlfriend (a management/marketing major) I'd kick your ***.

    You must think you're pretty special to not need them, even though they're the people that keep companies in business. What's one of the biggest things people complain about being the reason Z10 didn't sell well? Oh yea, the marketing department.
    I don't really have a problem with marketing, but I do have an issue with snake oil marketing. That is selling something that isn't useful or effective. 1080p for a 5 inch phone is one of these.
    07-16-13 06:38 AM
  11. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I don't really have a problem with marketing, but I do have an issue with snake oil marketing. That is selling something that isn't useful or effective. 1080p for a 5 inch phone is one of these.
    You're a sad guy...

    Being in 10-20 different threads, and apologising 24/7 for BlackBerry's shortcomings considering specs, and to endorse BlackBerry for letting them milk the consumer, is just sad.

    You can accuse people of being snake oil marketers all you want, but the fact that you don't see a problem with BlackBerry's pricing, for Hardware from the beginning of 2012, and that you have the nerve to countenance this, is even worse than every snake oil marketer could ever be.

    As I said before, you are the person in this discussion, who has an anti-consumer attitude.
    The vast majority in here, would have no problems with the specs, if BlackBerry prices the A10 like the old Nexus 4, because technically, it's not a lot better.

    And the same goes for me. If BlackBerry wants around 600-700$ for this device called A10 as of now, they should have never launched this phone.

    The vast majority of consumers does not like BlackBerry. A high price, for subpar hardware that let's BlackBerry rip off consumers, surely is the right way to go and to change the public perception.
    I mean what could go wrong?!

    Oh, somebody said PlayBook and firesale..?

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 07:36 AM
  12. Martin Green's Avatar
    Admittedly this one is over the top, but it's yet more evidence that at the very top tier 1080p is expected.

    http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/16/s...arovski-phone/

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 09:46 AM
  13. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Admittedly this one is over the top, but it's yet more evidence that at the very top tier 1080p is expected.

    http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/16/s...arovski-phone/

    Posted via CB10
    I could find you 3-6 Chinese "no name" phones instantly, using similar hardware compared to A10 but with a 1080p screen for about 200-300$, after the Yuan/$ conversion happened.

    It's just embarassing to launch a flagship, that should change the public's perception of the company, when they use early 2012 specs in late 2013 and then even charge too much for it.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 10:05 AM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Btw, personally, all of this spec talk could end the moment, Thorsten Heins tells the BlackBerry community that the A10 will be priced aggressively to penetrate the market and he then follows through with that announcement.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 10:13 AM
  15. sayf777's Avatar
    You talking about the same ppl who priced an inferior stl 100-1 on par with the otger Z10s. I doubt Thor will do something like that, would be nice though

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 12:39 PM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You're a sad guy...

    Being in 10-20 different threads, and apologising 24/7 for BlackBerry's shortcomings considering specs, and to endorse BlackBerry for letting them milk the consumer, is just sad.

    You can accuse people of being snake oil marketers all you want, but the fact that you don't see a problem with BlackBerry's pricing, for Hardware from the beginning of 2012, and that you have the nerve to countenance this, is even worse than every snake oil marketer could ever be.

    As I said before, you are the person in this discussion, who has an anti-consumer attitude.
    The vast majority in here, would have no problems with the specs, if BlackBerry prices the A10 like the old Nexus 4, because technically, it's not a lot better.

    And the same goes for me. If BlackBerry wants around 600-700$ for this device called A10 as of now, they should have never launched this phone.

    The vast majority of consumers does not like BlackBerry. A high price, for subpar hardware that let's BlackBerry rip off consumers, surely is the right way to go and to change the public perception.
    I mean what could go wrong?!

    Oh, somebody said PlayBook and firesale..?

    Posted via CB10
    No. What is sad is someone who thinks that just because BB doesn't put a useless 1080p spec in a 5 inch screen and thinks they know the price of the phone will say that BB is ripping of consumers. No one is forcing anyone to buy the phone. If you think that little of BB, why are you here?
    07-16-13 12:41 PM
  17. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    No. What is sad is someone who thinks that just because BB doesn't put a useless 1080p spec in a 5 inch screen and thinks they know the price of the phone will say that BB is ripping of consumers. No one is forcing anyone to buy the phone. If you think that little of BB, why are you here?
    Ah, the "why are you here" argument. You must be getting pretty desperate.

    Do you honestly think the A10 will be competitively priced?
    07-16-13 12:48 PM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    No. What is sad is someone who thinks that just because BB doesn't put a useless 1080p spec in a 5 inch screen and thinks they know the price of the phone will say that BB is ripping of consumers. No one is forcing anyone to buy the phone. If you think that little of BB, why are you here?
    I know that reading comprehension is something you are still struggling with, but the screen is just one part, of the subpar specs.
    I and the vast majority of users in here are talking about the overall package.
    And it's pretty bad.

    Nice strawman btw, but, I am here because I have a Z10 and I consider it being the merest evil of all phones I could buy.

    Considering the A10:

    The whole spec package is bad.
    The app package is bad.
    The price will be extremely bad.

    And yes, I can make a prediction on the price, because of the way the Q5 and Z10 have launched.

    If BlackBerry prices the A10 for about 450$ without a contract, I am the first to say that BlackBerry understood the market and how it has to approach it on a strategical level.

    Until then, with the rumoured specs, and BlackBerry's current pricing scheme, the A10 will be a rip off/ a case of milking the consumer/ priced faaaaar too high for what it can offer/ the next PlayBook.

    Btw, BlackBerry launching a new BBOS device with OS7 is another epic fail of BlackBerry.
    Instead of making the 9900 CHEAP, they produce a new phone.
    This is incredible headdesk material by itself.

    With the new BBOS device being announced, this was the moment I knew that BlackBerry has a bigger strategical problem than I ever could have imagined.
    It was also the moment I parted with the last share of mine

    The "confirmed" specs for the A10 are the next joke.

    I have exactly 0 confidence in BlackBerry right now. 0, nada, rien du tout, nichts, nothing.

    I love BB10 though.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 01:08 PM
  19. Saiga's Avatar
    No. What is sad is someone who thinks that just because BB doesn't put a useless 1080p spec in a 5 inch screen and thinks.......
    You don't think it is a little sad looking to others that you are here, defending the A10's specs yet again?

    Keep in mind, on the very first page of this thread, minutes after the thread started. I put "in before Bluenoser comes" and you still came.

    I honestly thought me putting that there might have caused you to let just one A10 specs thread go by without your involvement. Just one couldn't hurt could it? But your desire to defend the A10's specs is so strong that you still showed up and started telling everyone what the human eye is and isn't capable of. It is kind of a little sad. And I honestly don't mean that in an offensive way.

    Seems like there would have to be something better you could be doing with your time.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    07-16-13 05:21 PM
  20. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You don't think it is a little sad looking to others that you are here, defending the A10's specs yet again?

    Keep in mind, on the very first page of this thread, minutes after the thread started. I put "in before Bluenoser comes" and you still came.

    I honestly thought me putting that there might have caused you to let just one A10 specs thread go by without your involvement. Just one couldn't hurt could it? But your desire to defend the A10's specs is so strong that you still showed up and started telling everyone what the human eye is and isn't capable of. It is kind of a little sad. And I honestly don't mean that in an offensive way.

    Seems like there would have to be something better you could be doing with your time.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    If at least BlackBerry would pay him something for this performance...

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 05:27 PM
  21. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Btw, personally, all of this spec talk could end the moment, Thorsten Heins tells the BlackBerry community that the A10 will be priced aggressively to penetrate the market and he then follows through with that announcement.

    Posted via CB10
    You think they will sell their flagship for less than the Z & Q? I don't.
    07-17-13 04:57 AM
  22. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You don't think it is a little sad looking to others that you are here, defending the A10's specs yet again?
    Only one spec. That is 720p vs 1080p. What is sad is all the sheep who don't know that it is a spec that has reached its limit. It is sad that people will believe marketing over science. Science says that someone with 20/20 will not see the display any clearer.

    When it comes to the other specs. I really don't care. If the phone is fast with no lag with a dual core, then why put in a quad core? If it is slow and laggy, please up the cores. If it runs out of memory, please go to 3GB RAM. If the performance of the A10 is worse than the Z10, then I will call it a failure. If it's performance is the same as the Z10 or better, then the specs where chosen right.

    Keep in mind, on the very first page of this thread, minutes after the thread started. I put "in before Bluenoser comes" and you still came.

    I honestly thought me putting that there might have caused you to let just one A10 specs thread go by without your involvement. Just one couldn't hurt could it? But your desire to defend the A10's specs is so strong that you still showed up and started telling everyone what the human eye is and isn't capable of. It is kind of a little sad. And I honestly don't mean that in an offensive way.

    Seems like there would have to be something better you could be doing with your time.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    Why are you here attacking me just because I want to educate people that the 720p vs 1080p argument is a bogus one? I know you have a problem with my position.
    07-17-13 05:44 AM
  23. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I know that reading comprehension is something you are still struggling with, but the screen is just one part, of the subpar specs.
    You have lost the argument as now you are attacking me personally. You can't defend the science that 1080p will give clearer images than 720p on a small screen, so you you get personal. And if you notice, you haven't, I have not said anything about the other specs, only screen resolution. Nor have it said what the price will or should be.

    I am here because I have a Z10 and I consider it being the merest evil of all phones I could buy.
    So if the performance of the A10 is as good or better than the Z10 with the rumored specs, is the phone subpar? I think some people get wrapped up in specs that become useless due to them not being needed. It is like someone who has a 500hp car and they want a 1000hp car cause it is better specs. Can you actually use the extra 500hp? Or will it be unusable and have a performance penalty.

    But hey, it you are all about pissing contests and my mom can beat your mom, then all the power to you. I want something that works great. The Z10 does and I know that the A10 will with the released specs.
    07-17-13 05:53 AM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You have lost the argument as now you are attacking me personally. You can't defend the science that 1080p will give clearer images than 720p on a small screen, so you you get personal. And if you notice, you haven't, I have not said anything about the other specs, only screen resolution. Nor have it said what the price will or should be.



    So if the performance of the A10 is as good or better than the Z10 with the rumored specs, is the phone subpar? I think some people get wrapped up in specs that become useless due to them not being needed. It is like someone who has a 500hp car and they want a 1000hp car cause it is better specs. Can you actually use the extra 500hp? Or will it be unusable and have a performance penalty.

    But hey, it you are all about pissing contests and my mom can beat your mom, then all the power to you. I want something that works great. The Z10 does and I know that the A10 will with the released specs.
    This post is another proof that reading comprehension seems to be a problem for you.
    It is not an ad hominem to state facts.
    You are in 10-20 threads, and do not understand what 10s of different people are telling you.
    This shows me, that you have a problem with reading comprehension.
    Nothing personal involved.

    If BlackBerry uses hardware that is cheap, than the phone has to be cheap.
    Your comparison with cars, is therefore an extremely bad one, as the Z10 does not represent a car with 500 HP.

    I understood, that you probably will never get it, but if the A10 uses the specs of some phones that cost 330$ (the Samsung S3) but sells for 600$, then there is something wrong, and we are back at ripping off the consumer.

    Why you struggle so much with that, is a riddle...

    But to come back to your car analogy and why it is so bad...
    A car with 500hp:
    The BMW M3. Costs about 75k$ and should have enough performance for most people.
    A car with 1001hp:
    The Bugatti Veyron. Costs about 1 million $ and is more than everyone needs today.

    The difference between them is, that they completely play in another league, one costs 13 times more than the other and of course, I could use the extra 500ps, as the Bugatti Veyron was the first car approved for road use, to drive more than 400 km/h.

    If I now come back to the phone market, your comparison becomes completely non-sensical, because I can buy a Nexus 4 today (or an S3) for about 350$ that would perform very similarly to the A10 coming out at the end of the year, that surely will sell for around the 600$ mark.

    The Z10 works, but at least was somehow on par with the hardware of the competition and I paid a premium to be an early adopter.
    I made the choice willingly.

    BB10 will be old enough with the A10 that an "early adopter fee" is not warranted anymore and the hardware will be so uncompetitive, that a premium is just not justified on the price.

    How someone needs more than 40 pages of combined threads, to undestand that savings on the hardware side, when they are so big as in the A10's and BlackBerry's case, have to be passed onto the consumer, is beyond me.

    The crurent market price for hardware similar to the A10's, in a phone, is somewhere between 300 and 400$.

    Posted via CB10
    mithrazor likes this.
    07-17-13 07:45 AM
  25. Cozz4ever's Avatar
    Why does Samsung put 1080P on a 5" but not on small size home TV's

    Because it's a sale gimmick.
    07-17-13 07:53 AM
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