[sayf777]

I think another difference between the A10 and Z10 would be the mini usb, instead of mini usb b it'd be mini usb ab to allow usb otg support without the need of a dock.

Posted via CB10

[letmein13]

I hope A10 supports advanced 4G LTE because Samsung will release a new Galaxy S4 to support this network. I figure that my A10 should support if BB want me to spend 800 dollars for this device when advanced 4G LTE network is available.

[SuperionMaximus]

I hope A10 supports advanced 4G LTE because Samsung will release a new Galaxy S4 to support this network. I figure that my A10 should support if BB want me to spend 800 dollars for this device when advanced 4G LTE network is available.

Do you live in South Korea? Then LTE Advanced will not be deployed where you live for a few years yet and you will have long since moved on from the A10 by then. The LTE Advanced variant of the Galaxy S 4 will only be for Samsung's home market and will not be sold in other markets.

That said, if the A10 only has a 4.65" screen and an 8MP camera I do not see how it will be able to compete or where it will fit in the market.

It's barely a step up from the Z10 but probably still to big for allot of iPhone users. Plus we lose the removable battery.

It's not even in the same league as the HTC ONE or Samsung Galaxy S 4 which are already on the market today. The next LG Optimus is already confirmed by LG to be packing a Snapdragon 800 SOC so that old chip in the A10 isn't going to be impressive to anyone. By November, the phone will seem old and out of place in the market. A reputation that BlackBerry really should be trying to shake.

I just don't know how they will justify the cost to consumers. Reviewers will annihilate the A10 mercilessly if it launches in Q4 with those specs. Sales people will do everything in their power to steer consumers away from it. Only a few BlackBerry fans will even consider looking at it and decide even for them it's not enough to ditch a Z10 for.

The phone will literally have no target audience. It will appeal to virtually no one.

Thorsten Heins has been terrific at cutting costs and returning BlackBerry to profitability. He has not however proven to be any good at improving BlackBerry hardware to be competitive. Probably because he was the hardware guy at BlackBerry before he got promoted to CEO.

The A10 will not be a successful product if the rumored specs prove accurate.

My sincere hope is that it through evaluating the massive consumer failure of the A10, it actually teaches BlackBerry to be more forward thinking as a hardware company and release more innovative and competitive products in the future.

[SuperionMaximus]

You would have to hold it less than 7 inches from your eye. Try it..

Reading is not easier as all you get is smaller text. Keeping the same size text and putting it at reading distance 14", you won't see any difference.

Split screens have the same problem and since the "touch" size has to be the same, you don't get any benefits.

BlackBerry had better not have a developer version of the A10 and every BlackBerry developer in the World had better buy 100 of them.

Because Developers are the only audience BlackBerry seems to have thought about in developing the A10 to the point where it has virtually no other audience.

You keep going on an on about how BlackBerry doesn't need to have the specs that their competitors have and how marketing is just selling snake oil.

Well, unfortunately for you, BlackBerry does not exist in a vacuum and must actually compete with other products in the market place. Those other companies have sold people allot of snake oil. Utlrapixels and all. Consumers and sales people buy into these gimmicks.

BlackBerry hasn't sold the world on BB10 yet and is still known as the best phones with keyboards. Well, the Q10 and Q5 will sell because they have said keyboard. That reputation won't sell the A10 and isn't selling the Z10.

So the A10 had better come out with SOMETHING marketable in the high end space. Old processor - nope. Low res screen compared to everything else in the class - nope. 8MP camera with no gimmick at all - nope. Bigger and bulkier by most accounts even though it has no removable battery - nope.

What the hell is going to sell this thing? BB10? Well, if you want BB10, you can buy other phones cheaper with it that offer nearly identical performance. Get a Z10 and the spare battery and have 3600 mAh which will outlast an A10 easily and still have money left over versus the anticipated cost of an A10.

If the rumored specs are true. The A10 isn't enough of a leap from the Z10 to appeal to upgraders. It won't appeal to iPhone users any more then the Z10 already does and the 5s will be out by then anyway. It will be laughed at by Android users. Reviewers will shred it to pieces. Sales people will treat it as if it gives the user AIDS upon touching it. It will have no place at all in the market.

So you developers had better be ready to buy it up in bulk because you're the only people that might like it in any kind of significant volume. But really, if it fails as hard as it will with the specs it's rumored to have, will you really still have confidence in the platform to continue developing for it anyway?

Or, on the other hand, if BlackBerry actually designed the A10 to WOW reviewers with cutting edge specs that define the top of the market this year and it sells 20+ million units and grows the platform, would more developers be willing to add another resolution to their apps because the potential revenue due to the increased market share went up?

Don't get me wrong, I think BlackBerry should send out whores to blow developers if that's what it takes to get them to make apps. But that's not a sustainable model if they can't get hardware into consumers hands. BlackBerry right now needs to sell phones. The more phones they sell the more developers will come without as many incentives.

To cripple a high end phone just please developers does not benefit developers. If the A10 doesn't sell, there's that many fewer people to buy your apps. If the A10 sells like no other BlackBerry before it, that renews faith in the platform from investors, it brings in more revenue to the company, and there's millions more potential customers out there to buy your apps.

The A10 with the specs outlined in this thread only mean more bad press for BlackBerry. You think Engadget, the Verge, BGR, GSM Arena, Phonescoop or any other Tech Blog is going to give that phone a favorable review in Q4?

[StutterStep]

You're assuming a bigger device must mean it's a flagship or improved in specs. What if it's just another option to give those who have been wanting a big screen to hop on to BB10? If it is priced right, it can avoid of a lot of heat. It just cannot be priced near the GS4, HTC One and other flagship devices with 1080p screens. I have a bad feeling they will overprice this thing. It will need to be about $200 cheaper than the competition in the case it is just a Z10 with a big screen and bigger battery

[MarsupilamiX]

You're assuming a bigger device must mean it's a flagship or improved in specs. What if it's just another option to give those who have been wanting a big screen to hop on to BB10? If it is priced right, it can avoid of a lot of heat. It just cannot be priced near the GS4, HTC One and other flagship devices with 1080p screens. I have a bad feeling they will overprice this thing. It will need to be about $200 cheaper than the competition in the case it is just a Z10 with a big screen and bigger battery

I completely agree with you there, and I think Maximus should too.

If the price is right, there won't be a problem with outdated specs.
But don't we know BlackBerry better than to expect a good price on subpar hardware?

If they sell the A10 in the mid range, they also have a problem with the Z10.

If BlackBerry undercuts the competition significantly with the A10's price, than they also must depreciate the worth of the Z10 even further.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy...bUvbUpU8698558
The S4 sells for 620$ unlocked.

http://www.amazon.com/BLACKBERRY-16G...bUvbUpU8698558
The Z10 goes for 520$.

Let's say the A10 goes for 450$, than what exactly should the Z10 cost?
If the A10 would just be specced competitif, the Z10 would also not have this problem...

Posted via CB10

[SuperionMaximus]

You're assuming a bigger device must mean it's a flagship or improved in specs. What if it's just another option to give those who have been wanting a big screen to hop on to BB10? If it is priced right, it can avoid of a lot of heat. It just cannot be priced near the GS4, HTC One and other flagship devices with 1080p screens. I have a bad feeling they will overprice this thing. It will need to be about $200 cheaper than the competition in the case it is just a Z10 with a big screen and bigger battery

That's just it though. If they price it as a mid-range offering then all it's doing is cannibalizing the Z10's market. The Z10 is a fine mid-ranger that matches or bests an iPhone 5 in nearly every way.

The A10 is supposed to be the first high-end all touch BlackBerry 10 phone. BlackBerry A10 will be the laughing stock in it's class with the rumored specs. I'm sure some of them will change. Rumor has it the screen will actually be 5" instead of 4.65" and the camera will actually be 12MP instead of 8MP.

But unless they do some floating lens image stabilization, or a big aperture for low light, or something, 12MP alone with an average camera module will be considered behind the pack. BlackBerry is not known for good cameras so this will almost certainly be the case.

5" is already the established norm for a high end non-Apple flagship phone for 2013, so the size will be okay. But if it's a 720P Pentile matrix AMOLED it will be trashed in every single product review that the A10 receives from a non-BlackBerry fan site.

The phone is said to be thicker then a Z10 without a removable battery by folks who have seen the pre-production model. I don't get that at all. Wouldn't the whole point of making the battery non-replaceable be to make the phone thinner? In other words it's going to be the portly kid on the block compared to it's end of this year contemporaries.

Other then being developer friendly thanks to a 720P display, there is nothing going for this phone aside from maybe all day battery. But by the end of the year you'll be able to get a Z10 and an extra battery for a heck of allot cheaper.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing a market for the A10 as rumored today let alone 5 months from now.

[MarsupilamiX]

That's just it though. If they price it as a mid-range offering then all it's doing is cannibalizing the Z10's market. The Z10 is a fine mid-ranger that matches or bests an iPhone 5 in nearly every way.

The A10 is supposed to be the first high-end all touch BlackBerry 10 phone. BlackBerry A10 will be the laughing stock in it's class with the rumored specs. I'm sure some of them will change. Rumor has it the screen will actually be 5" instead of 4.65" and the camera will actually be 12MP instead of 8MP.

But unless they do some floating lens image stabilization, or a big aperture for low light, or something, 12MP alone with an average camera module will be considered behind the pack. BlackBerry is not known for good cameras so this will almost certainly be the case.

5" is already the established norm for a high end non-Apple flagship phone for 2013, so the size will be okay. But if it's a 720P Pentile matrix AMOLED it will be trashed in every single product review that the A10 receives from a non-BlackBerry fan site.

The phone is said to be thicker then a Z10 without a removable battery by folks who have seen the pre-production model. I don't get that at all. Wouldn't the whole point of making the battery non-replaceable be to make the phone thinner? In other words it's going to be the portly kid on the block compared to it's end of this year contemporaries.

Other then being developer friendly thanks to a 720P display, there is nothing going for this phone aside from maybe all day battery. But by the end of the year you'll be able to get a Z10 and an extra battery for a heck of allot cheaper.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing a market for the A10 as rumored today let alone 5 months from now.

No, its not just you
Everyone who understands the structure of the market, would feel the same way.

And this is why the A10 and its specs concern me so much. I want BlackBerry to succeed, I love my Z10 and I love BB10
(well, as much as loving your phone is healthy ), but the A10, without the right specs or the ultimate USP will become the laughing stock of the tech industry when it comes out.

It will become BlackBerry's second PlayBook, but in the phone segment, and nobody needs a crystal ball to know that.

Posted via CB10

[StutterStep]

It's true they will be put in a tough spot if the A10 doesn't have top specs considering it's being released before the end of the year. It is unreasonable to. I don't know if it's supposed to be the top end BB10 phone, it's just filling in the "big screen" hole. I agree with you, the OS itself cannot be the key selling point. I know I don't want to pay premium price for 1+ year old hardware

There's always next year...

[mithrazor]

I'd only buy this phone if it has the Snapdragon 800 processor. Better camera, and the battery better be damn good too.

With a good screen.

If it's a 720p pentile. Then it's a joke. I've seen that screen on a Galaxy Nexus. From 2 years ago. Do not like that screen one bit.

[SuperionMaximus]

No, its not just you
Everyone who understands the structure of the market, would feel the same way.

And this is why the A10 and its specs concern me so much. I want BlackBerry to succeed, I love my Z10 and I love BB10
(well, as much as loving your phone is healthy ), but the A10, without the right specs or the ultimate USP will become the laughing stock of the tech industry when it comes out.

It will become BlackBerry's second PlayBook, but in the phone segment, and nobody needs a crystal ball to know that.

Posted via CB10

If the only class BlackBerry wants to play in this year with their ALL TOUCH PHONES is mid-range, and they want to keep sales going they don't need the A10 to do it.

Release a few new colours of Z10, maybe a 2600 mAh battery, or a $50 price cut and call it a day. That alone will sustain the Z10 as a mid-ranger through next year. Cheaper then developing a whole new phone and developers don't need to add any new resolutions to their apps. Everyone is happy.

But to try and dip their toes into the high end of the market with a product that does not appear to have a single stand out feature for the class is insane. One needs to look no farther then Windows Phone 7 to see how that very approach played in the market. It failed more dramatically then any other product in mobile history that came before it. Windows Phone 8 supports much more powerful hardware and it still struggles.

The BlackBerry 10 platform does not offer enough uniqueness yet, or command enough market share yet for BlackBerry to "sell the experience" to customers cross shopping their rivals. Until the day that big apps see release on BlackBerry World the same day as on iOS, BlackBerry needs every advantage it can give it's self. The A10 as rumored isn't going to help their cause. They should trash it and release something better next year if they can't pull off a proper high end device this year.

I'd much rather see the Z10 be the only all touch device this year from BlackBerry then the A10 come out in Q4 with the rumored specs.

[Bluenoser63]

You keep going on an on about how BlackBerry doesn't need to have the specs that their competitors have and how marketing is just selling snake oil.

The only spec that I consider snake oil is 1080p on a small screen. If the pixel density if greater than the human eye can see, then it isn't needed. Every other spec can be improved and I would support it. BTW: Ever see a 64 bit video card?

[MarsupilamiX]

The only spec that I consider snake oil is 1080p on a small screen. If the pixel density if greater than the human eye can see, then it isn't needed. Every other spec can be improved and I would support it. BTW: Ever see a 64 bit video card?

Doesn't change the fact that it is a standard for bigger screened devices, and that either the customer expects it, or the sales person in the store, or the tech reviewer on whatever site except BlackBerry fan sites.

The concept of feature parity, seems to be way over your ability to grasp things.

It is more or less impossible to argue for worse specs, in a very expensive device.
Samsung proved this in the last days:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/20/s...lshare_twitter

This Notebook is better specced than the 13 inch Air from Apple and better specced than the 13 inch Retina MacBook Pro.

That's how you outdo the competition.
Not with specs from last year.

Posted via CB10

[StutterStep]

I don't think he knows what snake oil is. It's not like the difference cannot be seen,measured or proven. We're not talking about snake oil audio cables here where people claim to hear a difference when comparing 2 cables that are the same but are colored differently. 1080p on mobile devices is inevitable, there's no use denying it. Whether you like it as a developer or not is completely irrelevant, the market will advance forwards.

[SuperionMaximus]

I don't think he knows what snake oil is. It's not like the difference cannot be seen,measured or proven. We're not talking about snake oil audio cables here where people claim to hear a difference when comparing 2 cables that are the same but are colored differently. 1080p on mobile devices is inevitable, there's no use denying it. Whether you like it as a developer or not is completely irrelevant, the market will advance forwards.

But it's hard to argue with some one who is so closed minded as to think that a product should face disadvantages in the consumer market just so that he doesn't have to support another resolution. Even if the product is not a success and results in a smaller audience for him to sell his apps to.

[Nogrentain]

SO where is the parts breakdown so we know the price of the 1080p panel since you say it isn't costly. And it doesn't change the fact, that users can't see the difference between a 720p and 1080p. I bet the 720p panel would be even cheaper and use less power.

You might not perceive that there is a difference, but there really is. Apple came about its "retina" term by assuming that the most the human eye is capable of seeing in sharpness is one arc second. So at 12", it was worked out to be 300ish dpi. However, most humans are able to see a sharpness of approximately 0.3-0.4 arc seconds. In reality, you would need a 900dpi screen at 12" to saturate a human eye in sharpness. So yes, it is more than just a gimmick.

Certainly the 720p display would be cheaper and consume less power. I feel like that just goes without saying. And the thing about specs is that you go a long way to future-proof. Looking at Apple, the software is simply less resource intensive, so raw specs isn't as important. Although iphones tend to come out with the top of the line gpu at the time of release. At the end of the day, BBRY is going to charge up the nose for its flagship devices, and it had better perform without any slow-downs to speak of, and still be able to with updates two-three years down the line. BBRY certainly isn't going to pass the savings onto the consumer, and we're talking about at most, 20-40 dollars of difference in manufacturing costs in using top of the line tech of 2013 or 2012. I'd actually like to see a snapdragon 800 and 4.7-5" 1080p display in the A10, and a battery life going back to the golden days of BBRY. I think that the A10, to really turn around BBRY, needs to have top specs, a great UI, amazing battery life, and continually improving ecosystem all at once. Then you can appeal to everyone with one device.

[Nogrentain]

In the case of the S3's display vs the S4's display, it is a 10 dollar difference. The battery is a 70 cent difference for an extra 500maH.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57575143-94/at-$236-galaxy-s4-costlier-to-produce-than-s3-says-report/

[Bluenoser63]

You might not perceive that there is a difference, but there really is. Apple came about its "retina" term by assuming that the most the human eye is capable of seeing in sharpness is one arc second. So at 12", it was worked out to be 300ish dpi. However, most humans are able to see a sharpness of approximately 0.3-0.4 arc seconds. In reality, you would need a 900dpi screen at 12" to saturate a human eye in sharpness. So yes, it is more than just a gimmick.

Normal visual acuity is commonly referred to as 20/20 vision. 20/20 is 1 degree. And it is 229, not 300.

For most uses, however, the extra sharpness of a 1080p display is wasted. In Dr. Soneira's third-generation iPad display shoot-out, he explains that because most adults don't actually have true 20/20 vision—even with glasses or contact lenses—when they view a display further away than recommended, the eyes can no longer fully resolve the sharpness. The iPhone’s Retina display makes a good example of this. "If you use the legal definition for 20/20 vision, the resolution for the iPhone at 326 ppi becomes a ‘retina’ display at 10.5 inches," says Dr. Soneira, because that’s the viewing distance where the image on the screen will appear optimally sharp. After about 15 inches, "the much higher 326 ppi is 'wasted' because the eye can't resolve sharpness above 229 ppi." The further away a person gets, the more gradual the reduction in perceived image sharpness.

1080p on a smartphone screen—can it possibly matter? | Ars Technica

[Bla1ze]

All of this 1080p talks is bit moot cause the A10 is not going to be 1080p. lol

• 5" OLED - 1280X720 - 295 PPI.

Aside from all that, you can toss as much specs into a device as you want.. if the OS still isn't up to par, it won't take long for people to notice.

Hope 10.2 is great when it rolls out.

[DariusG1996]

Looks about right

Posted via CB10

What processor does the Z10 use? Isn't it Snapdragon? and not Qualcomm ?? This could be fake.... It can easily be created and I personally don't trust the 'Leak'

[MarsupilamiX]

All of this 1080p talks is bit moot cause the A10 is not going to be 1080p. lol

• 5" OLED - 1280X720 - 295 PPI.

Aside from all that, you can toss as much specs into a device as you want.. if the OS still isn't up to par, it won't take long for people to notice.

Hope 10.2 is great when it rolls out.

I never disputed that fact but I questioned its intelligence.

I also heard you already use something like 10.2?

And I am not really worried about the OS part. BB10 plays in another league, compared to BBOS and actually has a good fighting chance.

I love my Z10 and would have upgraded to the A10 so that I can pass my Z10 onto a family member, if the specs would have been adequate for a flagship.

As it stands now, I will stay with the Z10, and I'll probably recommend it over the A10 to my closer circle of human beings I frequent often, just because the Z10 will constitute the better value for the price.

Posted via CB10

[letmein13]

I'd only buy this phone if it has the Snapdragon 800 processor. Better camera, and the battery better be damn good too.

With a good 1080p screen.

and 32GB hard drive in addition to microSD. 4G network support in every A10 model regardless of where you purchase this phone. Because I purchased A10 in Asia, it didn't mean that I wouldn't use 4G network in Europe or America for the rest of my life.

[SuperionMaximus]

All of this 1080p talks is bit moot cause the A10 is not going to be 1080p. lol

• 5" OLED - 1280X720 - 295 PPI.

Aside from all that, you can toss as much specs into a device as you want.. if the OS still isn't up to par, it won't take long for people to notice.

Hope 10.2 is great when it rolls out.

I think we all realize that the display in the A10 will be 720P. What we are questioning is will this hurt sales of the device along with the other purported specs.

IF, the A10 is essentially equal specs wise to an HTC One X+ from last year, will it sell in Q4 of this year? Keeping in mind the X+ was released because HTC was behind the specs curve on the One X in the first place and so had to rush an improved version to market to try and save some sales. It didn't work.

We also know that Windows Phone 7 flopped in dramatic fashion thanks partly to the tight restrictions on hardware which were well behind where the market was at the time.

As you also mentioned, BlackBerry 10 still needs a bit of spit shine and a few more bells and whistles to really stand out. So if the experience isn't quite there, and the hardware is lack luster at best for the audience this phone will be targeting, what do you think the sales will be like?

[JBML007]

Gotta be 1080p

Z10in' since the Beginnin'

[StutterStep]

Less than 300ppi combined with a possible non RGB layout OLED equals blurry screen. If it was LCD it wouldn't look so bad since there are 3 sub pixels per pixel compared to just 2.