07-06-13 04:13 PM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Almost the smartest comment so far in this thread. Would have been better with this equation:

    1280/720 = 1920/1080

    If you have a decent scaler then you can have 1080 phone with apps written for 720 and not be able to tell the difference.

    It's entirely possible for the A10 to come with 1080p screen resolution.

    Posted via CB10
    I share these thoughts.

    What I do not understand is how BlackBerry would justify a premium price for the A10, if the Hardware is 1 year older than the one the company competition uses.

    I love the experience on my Z10 and it was worth every $ I paid, but the Aristo may lag behind compared to the competition in an even more significant way than the Z10.

    I do not understand why BlackBerry WANTS to be in that situation...

    BTW: Would someone have an email adress of Michael Clewley for me? I would love to send him an Email for a UI suggestion.

    Posted via CB10
    06-14-13 11:34 PM
  2. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Ya, but ....
    1280x720 X 1.5 = 1920x1080

    Old apps would scale perfectly to 1080p. Apps could be still written for 1280x720. Some apps like Netflix though, could go 1080p.

    as a business, they need to move to 1080p
    It is easy to see that you have never developed applications, especially for the BB10 platform. There are many times where you specify the pixel size and location of a control. It is not that simple. The app would only take up 1280 x 720 pixels and the rest would be blank. Lots of people commenting about app development when they never wrote a single app.
    06-14-13 11:34 PM
  3. bekkay's Avatar
    It is easy to see that you have never developed applications, especially for the BB10 platform. There are many times where you specify the pixel size and location of a control. It is not that simple. The app would only take up 1280 x 720 pixels and the rest would be blank. Lots of people commenting about app development when they never wrote a single app.
    And I asked you this before:
    How come Android and WP apps still get developed?
    06-14-13 11:38 PM
  4. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    If you have a decent scaler then you can have 1080 phone with apps written for 720 and not be able to tell the difference.

    It's entirely possible for the A10 to come with 1080p screen resolution.
    Another person who doesn't understand about developing applications for BB10. There is no scaler. And even if there was, the icons/images would be blurred.
    06-14-13 11:38 PM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    And I asked you this before:
    How come Android and WP apps still get developed?
    Are you an application developer? If you are, then you already know the answer, if you are not, take the time to understand the complexity of developing applications for multiple screen resolutions.
    06-14-13 11:40 PM
  6. bekkay's Avatar
    Are you an application developer? If you are, then you already know the answer, if you are not, take the time to understand the complexity of developing applications for multiple screen resolutions.
    Answer please. No need to beat around the bush.
    06-14-13 11:42 PM
  7. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    @Bluenoser

    I am baffled how much knowledge you have, but you fail to demonstrate it in any meaningfull way.

    The question why scaling works on other OS' is a very valid one, and the fact that 1080p will become the new industry standard anyway, is also a fact that means that the devs have to adapt either way.

    Why exactly do you want that BlackBerry gives the consumers reasons to not buy the new A10 device?

    Posted via CB10
    bekkay likes this.
    06-14-13 11:48 PM
  8. bekkay's Avatar
    Here is what I found for Android and WP8:
    Windows Phone 8: Multiple Screen Resolutions
    Supporting Multiple Screens | Android Developers

    It looks like there is some extra work for developers, but that extra work is well worth it because they won't have to develop for each screen resolution separately.

    In any case, multiple screen resolutions by no means seem to be a deterrent for developers for OSs that allow for effective scaling. Unless you are a super-lazy developer.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-14-13 11:54 PM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Here is what I found for Android and WP8:
    Windows Phone 8: Multiple Screen Resolutions
    Supporting Multiple Screens | Android Developers

    It looks like there is some extra work for developers, but that extra work is well worth it because they won't have to develop for each screen resolution separately.

    In any case, multiple screen resolutions by no means seem to be a deterrent for developers for OSs that allow for effective scaling. Unless you are a super-lazy developer.
    How many apps have you developed? It is not as simple as you think.
    06-15-13 12:31 AM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    @Bluenoser

    I am baffled how much knowledge you have, but you fail to demonstrate it in any meaningfull way.

    The question why scaling works on other OS' is a very valid one, and the fact that 1080p will become the new industry standard anyway, is also a fact that means that the devs have to adapt either way.

    Why exactly do you want that BlackBerry gives the consumers reasons to not buy the new A10 device?

    Posted via CB10
    I am baffled on why you think the majority of consumers even case about 1080p.
    06-15-13 12:32 AM
  11. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    @Bluenoser

    I am baffled how much knowledge you have, but you fail to demonstrate it in any meaningfull way.

    The question why scaling works on other OS' is a very valid one, and the fact that 1080p will become the new industry standard anyway, is also a fact that means that the devs have to adapt either way.

    Why exactly do you want that BlackBerry gives the consumers reasons to not buy the new A10 device?

    Posted via CB10
    How many apps have you developed? A lot of the comments here are like those who condemn a movie or book by saying it is bad and haven't even viewed or read it. How can you make comments about something that you have no experience with?
    06-15-13 12:34 AM
  12. bekkay's Avatar
    How many apps have you developed? It is not as simple as you think.
    If it's so impossibly hard to develop apps for multiple screen resolutions, how come Android and WP apps still get developed?

    Answer please. No need to beat around the bush.

    "How many apps have you developed?" is not a valid answer. It conveys zero information.
    06-15-13 12:39 AM
  13. texazzpete's Avatar
    You can call people names if you want. He clearly proved 1 GB to be sufficient on the latest software. Have you used the software he used? His argument makes sense and given he produced images of his Q10 running on 1 GB I think you might be the one choosing not to see.

    Posted via CB10
    He clearly 'proved' nothing. He showed a screen shot. I can show you a screen shot of Jellybean running on a HTC Nexus One from 2010...doesnt mean it runs very well under dynamic conditions.

    If 1GB could run bb10 satisfactorily, there's no earthly reason why BB would include 2GB Ram in the Q5. The intention is to sell the Q5 at a low price but still eke out as much profit per device as possible.

    Lmao at putting forward a screen shot as 'proof'.

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    06-15-13 12:46 AM
  14. texazzpete's Avatar
    if any phone is knocked for its specs it should be the iphone 5 dual core 1.2 gig (correct me if I'm wrong) and 1 gig of ram.
    You can't knock the iPhone for its specs when it has a faster CPU and GPU than the Z10/Q10.

    iOS doesn't require 2GB of Ram to run flawlessly so that really shouldn't be a comparison point

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    06-15-13 12:52 AM
  15. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I cannot believe the argument that has been raging over optimal RAM size for Blackberry 10.
    Sometimes one needs to put away blind fanboyism and use common sense. If BB10 could run very well on 1GB RAM, there's no way in hell that BlackBerry would have put 2GB RAM in the Q5.
    I think it all comes down to priorities, for these first devices the most important thing was to get them out and selling as soon as possible (excluding the american carriers obviously) so rather than spending more time optimising memory usage at the expense of other development needs they jumped to 2GB of ram which was more than enough and enabled them to far more easily showcase the multitasking of their new OS.

    It has been shown that with the current builds that are on dev alpha devices or other non-final hardware that bb10 will run on 1GB devices and anyone claiming this doesn't happen is wrong, however those arguing that running bb10 is sub-optimal are telling the truth because if you cannot readily run at least the 8 apps to fill up the active tiles quota then you have run out of memory.

    Personally, I would not be surprised if the work they need to do to get bb10 running on the playbook will pay dividends for them in the end as it should allow them to drop the amount of ram on entry-level models in the future, although probably only to 1.5gb rather than 1gb as they will want some room to grow with updates and avoid the issue with legacy devices not getting the next version of bbos due to a lack of memory (mostly just an os5 to os6 issue iirc)
    06-15-13 07:20 AM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    If it's so impossibly hard to develop apps for multiple screen resolutions, how come Android and WP apps still get developed?

    Answer please. No need to beat around the bush.

    "How many apps have you developed?" is not a valid answer. It conveys zero information.
    That is a valid answer. Until you have developed apps, you have no understanding on the issues when you develop them for multiple platforms and resolutions. Have you even read the documentation from Blackberry about UI guidelines and how to handle multiple resolutions. The work doubled or tripled. Most applications that I have seen from all platforms are very simple apps and I can write those also. But when it comes to good quality apps, precise location and sizes of elements requires a lot of work for adapting to the platforms. I now have to deal with three and later on four if you get your way. It will be at this point where I may give up developing for the Blackberry.
    06-15-13 07:40 AM
  17. texazzpete's Avatar
    I am baffled on why you think the majority of consumers even case about 1080p.
    It's a talking point. When you see a two oh ones side by side, the average consumer tends to buy the one with the better specs.

    Millions of folks who are not tech savvy do not know what 1080p is, but they will not buy a TV that is not 'full HD'. That is what we're talking about here. Buzz words like 'quad core' and 'full hd' Sells phones. And blackberry needs to get in on that game as soon as possible.

    Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    06-15-13 07:48 AM
  18. texazzpete's Avatar
    To add to my earlier point...and show you how people use paper specs to argue a case for their device of choice, take a look at this post from this fellow

    if any phone is knocked for its specs it should be the iphone 5 dual core 1.2 gig (correct me if I'm wrong) and 1 gig of ram.
    His Blackberry Z10 has a 1.5Ghz dual core CPU. he sees an iPhone 5 running at 1.3Ghz. Despite extensive benchmarks and tests from the likes of Anandtech showing that Apple's custom CPU outstrips the Snapdragon S4 in all usable cross platform benchmarks, he assumes the Z10 is faster because of the higher clock speed of the CPU.
    In this case, the CPU clock speed and the RAM is what he clings to as evidence that his desired phone is better.

    Now when you walk into a store and you see the Galaxy S4 beside the Z10, what you see is

    1. 1.9 Ghz Quad Core Snapdragon 600 vs 1.5Ghz Dual Core Snapdragon S4 (the magical word 'Quad Core')
    2. 1080p 'Full HD' Screen vs 720p screen ('Full HD' is another magical word)
    3. Super AMOLED HD vs LCD ( There's already a growing hype around SuperAMOLED...some consumers are swayed by it)
    4. 12MP Camera vs 8 MP Camera (99% of laymen still view megapixel count as an indication of camera quality)


    Now when someone walks into a store as an undecided customer, he sees 1080p, 12MP camera, Quad Core and SuperAMOLED in one phone, it's very easy for his decision to be swayed in that direction.

    This is what Windows Phone and Blackberry need to do to grow at the high end. iPhone users are usually very satisfied with their devices, and iOS7 is bound to keep lots of old users in the fold. The main growth area is in hoovering up dissatisfied Android customers. And you NEED premium devices with superlative specs to do that.

    Nokia is ready for that. Their next AT&T phone will not have a 1080p screen. It may not have an AMOLED screen. What it will have is a frigging 41 Megapixels camera. That is an attention grabber...they will sell quite a bit of those, mark my words. Blackberry needs an attention grabbing device to spur sales.
    06-15-13 08:10 AM
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Here is what I found for Android and WP8:
    Windows Phone 8: Multiple Screen Resolutions
    Supporting Multiple Screens | Android Developers

    It looks like there is some extra work for developers, but that extra work is well worth it because they won't have to develop for each screen resolution separately.

    In any case, multiple screen resolutions by no means seem to be a deterrent for developers for OSs that allow for effective scaling. Unless you are a super-lazy developer.
    Thanks for the links. Did you take the time to read them? They talk about workarounds, drawbacks, problems and issues. It is not ideal and the more the resolutions, the bigger the problems.
    06-15-13 09:37 AM
  20. bekkay's Avatar
    That is a valid answer. Until you have developed apps, you have no understanding on the issues when you develop them for multiple platforms and resolutions. Have you even read the documentation from Blackberry about UI guidelines and how to handle multiple resolutions. The work doubled or tripled. Most applications that I have seen from all platforms are very simple apps and I can write those also. But when it comes to good quality apps, precise location and sizes of elements requires a lot of work for adapting to the platforms. I now have to deal with three and later on four if you get your way. It will be at this point where I may give up developing for the Blackberry.
    You are not answering my question. My questions was not whether I have ever developed any apps (and the answer that I already gave you in an earlier post is "No") or how difficult it is to develop in general. My question was:

    "Why do developers keep developing for Android and WP despite so many screen resolutions?"

    I am just curious if Google and Microsoft made developers' job easier by providing appropriate tools whereas BBRY didn't, because you sound like it's very hard to develop for multiple screen resolutions for BB10 and adding 1080P will kill all/most development for the platform.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-15-13 11:02 AM
  21. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    To add to my earlier point...and show you how people use paper specs to argue a case for their device of choice, take a look at this post from this fellow



    His Blackberry Z10 has a 1.5Ghz dual core CPU. he sees an iPhone 5 running at 1.3Ghz. Despite extensive benchmarks and tests from the likes of Anandtech showing that Apple's custom CPU outstrips the Snapdragon S4 in all usable cross platform benchmarks, he assumes the Z10 is faster because of the higher clock speed of the CPU.
    In this case, the CPU clock speed and the RAM is what he clings to as evidence that his desired phone is better.

    Now when you walk into a store and you see the Galaxy S4 beside the Z10, what you see is

    1. 1.9 Ghz Quad Core Snapdragon 600 vs 1.5Ghz Dual Core Snapdragon S4 (the magical word 'Quad Core')
    2. 1080p 'Full HD' Screen vs 720p screen ('Full HD' is another magical word)
    3. Super AMOLED HD vs LCD ( There's already a growing hype around SuperAMOLED...some consumers are swayed by it)
    4. 12MP Camera vs 8 MP Camera (99% of laymen still view megapixel count as an indication of camera quality)


    Now when someone walks into a store as an undecided customer, he sees 1080p, 12MP camera, Quad Core and SuperAMOLED in one phone, it's very easy for his decision to be swayed in that direction.

    This is what Windows Phone and Blackberry need to do to grow at the high end. iPhone users are usually very satisfied with their devices, and iOS7 is bound to keep lots of old users in the fold. The main growth area is in hoovering up dissatisfied Android customers. And you NEED premium devices with superlative specs to do that.

    Nokia is ready for that. Their next AT&T phone will not have a 1080p screen. It may not have an AMOLED screen. What it will have is a frigging 41 Megapixels camera. That is an attention grabber...they will sell quite a bit of those, mark my words. Blackberry needs an attention grabbing device to spur sales.
    This must be incredibly hard to understand for some people.

    And I do not get how one user especially, who apparently has that much knowledge, still does not get the simplest strategic decisions.

    When Thorsten Heins says, he is not in a spec race, that still doesn't mandate lagging behind one and a half years behind, compared to the competition.

    BlackBerry does not exist in a vacuum and if supporting multiple resolutions is such a pita, than Android should have no applications written for the platform at all.
    But Android has the sales numbers, so people continue to write apps.

    I actually worked on more than one app with some devs, as the creative mastermind for concepts, mostly on the Android platform.
    Including support for multiple resolutions, was a no brainer for them, as Androids fragmentation mandates that.

    From my pov, the dev in here with that much knowledge about everything, is just lazy and wants to sustain the status quo, instead of letting BlackBerry evolve where it needs to go.

    If BlackBerry wants to sell the A10 for a premium, they need to provide something premium. A 1080p screen would be a nice beginning.

    Posted via CB10
    bekkay and MasterOfBinary like this.
    06-15-13 11:07 AM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You are not answering my question. My questions was not whether I have ever developed any apps (and the answer that I already gave you in an earlier post is "No") or how difficult it is to develop in general. My question was:

    "Why do developers keep developing for Android and WP despite so many screen resolutions?"

    I am just curious if Google and Microsoft made developers' job easier by providing appropriate tools whereas BBRY didn't, because you sound like it's very hard to develop for multiple screen resolutions for BB10 and adding 1080P will kill all/most development for the platform.
    I may add that devs for Apple also have to support multiple resolutions, and screensizes. Going from the iPhone 1 to the iPad 4 and the mini.

    Why hasn't development halted for this platform as well, if having more than 2 resolutions kills the whole dev scene on BB10, like Bluenoser said before?

    What I also do find fascinating, is that Bluenoser is on every thread, concerning screen resolutions and tells people that 1080p would kill BlackBerry.
    What is his agenda?

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-13 11:14 AM
  23. darkehawke's Avatar
    It is still idiotic to release a phone at the end of 2013 with Specs from phones of mid 2012, no matter to what guidelines they commited.

    Add to that the fact of 1080p displays to become mainstream in phones next year, and BlackBerry has no choice to enter a certain segment of the spec race.
    This segment is called feature parity.

    I totally understand why you come to the conclusion that the Aristo will use a 720p display.
    As I do with everyone else, when they mention BlackBerry's guidelines.
    I agree with everyone of them.

    This does not change the fact, that it is idiotic and that the support for 1080p will start anyway with next year.
    I would have bought the A10 and wanted to give a family member my Z10.

    With BlackBerry's approach to specs and pricing, since BlackBerry has the intent to sell premium phones, they have to give me something premium for my money.
    This is the case with the Z10, but under the current circumstances will not be the case with the A10.
    Therefore I won't buy it (if there won't come an incredible USP).

    BlackBerry will not only lose 1 sale because of their approach there, but a far higher number of sales.
    The sad thing is, that this is very predictable and in a moment in time, where BlackBerry needs every single sale they can get with BB10.

    But yes, you are right, they commited to a "very intelligent" guideline.


    Posted via CB10
    How many people will actually care about the resolution. I think it is more idiotic to risk pissing off devs as apps are more important than screen resolution at this point in time

    Posted via CB10
    Bluenoser63 likes this.
    06-15-13 11:36 AM
  24. darkehawke's Avatar
    I may add that devs for Apple also have to support multiple resolutions, and screensizes. Going from the iPhone 1 to the iPad 4 and the mini.

    Why hasn't development halted for this platform as well, if having more than 2 resolutions kills the whole dev scene on BB10, like Bluenoser said before?

    What I also do find fascinating, is that Bluenoser is on every thread, concerning screen resolutions and tells people that 1080p would kill BlackBerry.
    What is his agenda?

    Posted via CB10
    You can't compare apple and BlackBerry. People will put the effort in for apple as it has rewards.
    Those same people may not be willing to put the same effort for BlackBerry's small amount of users

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-13 11:38 AM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    To add to my earlier point...and show you how people use paper specs to argue a case for their device of choice, take a look at this post from this fellow



    His Blackberry Z10 has a 1.5Ghz dual core CPU. he sees an iPhone 5 running at 1.3Ghz. Despite extensive benchmarks and tests from the likes of Anandtech showing that Apple's custom CPU outstrips the Snapdragon S4 in all usable cross platform benchmarks, he assumes the Z10 is faster because of the higher clock speed of the CPU.
    In this case, the CPU clock speed and the RAM is what he clings to as evidence that his desired phone is better.

    Now when you walk into a store and you see the Galaxy S4 beside the Z10, what you see is

    1. 1.9 Ghz Quad Core Snapdragon 600 vs 1.5Ghz Dual Core Snapdragon S4 (the magical word 'Quad Core')
    2. 1080p 'Full HD' Screen vs 720p screen ('Full HD' is another magical word)
    3. Super AMOLED HD vs LCD ( There's already a growing hype around SuperAMOLED...some consumers are swayed by it)
    4. 12MP Camera vs 8 MP Camera (99% of laymen still view megapixel count as an indication of camera quality)


    Now when someone walks into a store as an undecided customer, he sees 1080p, 12MP camera, Quad Core and SuperAMOLED in one phone, it's very easy for his decision to be swayed in that direction.

    This is what Windows Phone and Blackberry need to do to grow at the high end. iPhone users are usually very satisfied with their devices, and iOS7 is bound to keep lots of old users in the fold. The main growth area is in hoovering up dissatisfied Android customers. And you NEED premium devices with superlative specs to do that.

    Nokia is ready for that. Their next AT&T phone will not have a 1080p screen. It may not have an AMOLED screen. What it will have is a frigging 41 Megapixels camera. That is an attention grabber...they will sell quite a bit of those, mark my words. Blackberry needs an attention grabbing device to spur sales.
    The biggest complaint you hear time and again is there are no apps, not that it doesn't have 1080p. If you want apps, you need to make it easier to get developers on board. Multiple screen resolutions increase the magnitude of the work involved in getting an app out. Considering the current low volume of BB10 phones, developers will go to where the volume is or the ease of development.
    06-15-13 12:00 PM
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