07-06-13 04:13 PM
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  1. thekidshop's Avatar
    Amen to that, can't anyone here get any msg to BlackBerry directly, come on like some body must no some body who's brother works there, right? BlackBerry needs to listen too us or there fuct plain and simple. I want them to succeed so bad but it's just getting painfull to watch some of the time.

    Rocking blk Z10

    Posted via CB10
    06-29-13 12:56 AM
  2. BlackBerry_Pwner's Avatar
    I love the fact that Paint is open
    06-30-13 05:55 AM
  3. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Example:
    Price of a Retina MacBook Pro 15 inch in the US:
    Amazon.com: Apple MacBook Pro ME664LL/A 15.4-Inch Laptop with Retina Display (NEWEST VERSION): Computers & Accessories
    2080$

    In Germany:
    Apple MacBook Pro Retina Display 39,1 cm Notebook: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör
    1930 Euro.

    If I use the conversion rate of Dollar to Euro, the MacBook should only cost:
    1600 Euro.
    Currency Converter - Yahoo! Finance


    SNIP

    So, what did we learn here?

    What we really learned, is that there are local differences in price as well as taxes, and that one can't use conversion rates like you did before.

    If we want to get an answer, how well/bad a device is priced, we have to compare it with the local prices of the competition ( and we could then even factor in the law of supply and demand).

    The Samsung S4 mini will cost 365 british pounds when it launches and the BlackBerry Z10 had a price tag of 480 pounds when it launched in early February.

    I can therefore explain it to you in a very simple way:

    You haven't got the slightest clue of what you are talking about here.
    Thank you for proving it
    You don't know what you're talking about. In Germany, prices include VAT. In the US, prices don't include sales tax. VAT in Germany is 19%. Figure that in, and you get prices that are very similar, within a few Euros. The same goes for pretty much all other electronics, including the Z10. Only exceptions to 19% VAT are things like food and books.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 06-30-13 at 06:20 AM.
    06-30-13 06:08 AM
  4. DivideBYZero's Avatar
    Agreed. UK sales tax is 20%, too. So the UK unlocked price is more like 400 after removing sales tax, then again that's an unlocked premium putting the device somewhere under $600 for a carrier locked device outright.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-13 06:16 AM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You don't know what you're talking about. In Germany, prices include VAT. In the US, prices don't include sales tax. VAT in Germany is 19%. Figure that in, and you get prices that are very similar, within a few Euros. The same goes for pretty much all other electronics, including the Z10. Only exceptions to 19% VAT are things like food and books.
    If you buy from Amazon in the US the VAT wasn't an issue as of late.
    There were plans on changing that, even though I am not sure if it already happened.

    I am well aware of the VAT.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_t..._United_States

    But even factoring in the "high" VAT, of 11% in some states, the price of the MacBook Pro with Retina display doesn't come close to a few Euro.

    We take the MacBook Pro and add 10% (to make it simple) to its price of 2080$.
    =2288$

    We make the conversion in Euro.
    http://de.finance.yahoo.com/waehrung...D;amt=1758.431
    =1758 Euro

    We check the price again that Amazon.de offers.
    http://www.amazon.de/Apple-MacBook-R...bUvbUpU8735152
    1950 Euro.

    That still makes a difference of 200 Euro.
    If I now add the difference of PPP
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
    the price is far too high.

    I live in Switzerland and lived some time in Germany.
    I know what I am talking about.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 06-30-13 at 09:56 AM.
    06-30-13 07:13 AM
  6. DivideBYZero's Avatar
    No, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't compare the post VAT price, you compare the pre vat price for both.

    Obviously a 19% tax rate will end up with a higher final price than an 11% rate. You're not going to prove much like that.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 01:09 AM
  7. Vurhan's Avatar
    So <300ppi and pentile I guess? If the A10 is to be placed on displays next to them 1080p 500ppi screens, the difference can be quite noticeable. Unless you're standing 2 meters away, but I fear for the LED brightness.
    07-02-13 04:09 PM
  8. szlevi's Avatar
    If BB will be indeed so f'n clueless that their first 5 incher comes in 720p (in Fall 2013!) then it's indeed over for BB, press, market and people will all rip them apart and rightfully so.
    07-03-13 01:21 AM
  9. Skeevecr's Avatar
    So <300ppi and pentile I guess? If the A10 is to be placed on displays next to them 1080p 500ppi screens, the difference can be quite noticeable. Unless you're standing 2 meters away, but I fear for the LED brightness.
    You fear for the LED brightness, really? There are plenty of areas where a 1080p display outdoes a 720p version at the same size, but one where it does not tend to be the case is the brightness of the display because it is those higher pixel density displays that tend to either be less brighter or they have to push the power demands higher.
    07-03-13 07:54 AM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So <300ppi and pentile I guess? If the A10 is to be placed on displays next to them 1080p 500ppi screens, the difference can be quite noticeable. Unless you're standing 2 meters away, but I fear for the LED brightness.
    Actually it won't be noticeable. The human eye has limitations for detail. A 720p 295 ppi which is what the A10 will have vs a 1080p 500ppi viewed from just over 10 INCHES, a person with 20/20 cannot see the difference. A 1080p screen is all about a "pissing contest" and nothing to do with usability.

    And who is pushing 1080p screens? Samsung. If BB goes with a 1080p screen, who will they buy it from? Samsung. Since Samsung is a hardware manufacturer, they would love for others to buy higher resolution and more expensive screens. It is a win/win for them and make no difference for
    the consumer.
    07-03-13 08:22 AM
  11. Vurhan's Avatar
    Actually it won't be noticeable. The human eye has limitations for detail. A 720p 295 ppi which is what the A10 will have vs a 1080p 500ppi viewed from just over 10 INCHES, a person with 20/20 cannot see the difference. A 1080p screen is all about a "pissing contest" and nothing to do with usability.

    And who is pushing 1080p screens? Samsung. If BB goes with a 1080p screen, who will they buy it from? Samsung. Since Samsung is a hardware manufacturer, they would love for others to buy higher resolution and more expensive screens. It is a win/win for them and make no difference for
    the consumer.
    If its 295 ppi, then it won't be a problem outside of pixel peeping land. Anyways, BB has to consider GPU speeds and app development issues and availability as well, among other concerns.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9630 using Tapatalk
    07-03-13 09:49 AM
  12. Vurhan's Avatar
    You fear for the LED brightness, really? There are plenty of areas where a 1080p display outdoes a 720p version at the same size, but one where it does not tend to be the case is the brightness of the display because it is those higher pixel density displays that tend to either be less brighter or they have to push the power demands higher.
    The S4 is brighter and more pleasant to look at than the Note 2. 1080p/441ppi against 720p/267ppi respectively. Granted both still beaten by IPS LCDs.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9630 using Tapatalk
    07-03-13 09:56 AM
  13. szlevi's Avatar
    Actually it won't be noticeable. The human eye has limitations for detail. A 720p 295 ppi which is what the A10 will have vs a 1080p 500ppi viewed from just over 10 INCHES, a person with 20/20 cannot see the difference. A 1080p screen is all about a "pissing contest" and nothing to do with usability.

    And who is pushing 1080p screens? Samsung. If BB goes with a 1080p screen, who will they buy it from? Samsung. Since Samsung is a hardware manufacturer, they would love for others to buy higher resolution and more expensive screens. It is a win/win for them and make no difference for
    the consumer.
    Uhh it's about resolution vs real estate - you can simply fit more on a 1080p screen, I thought it's quite obvious.

    Considering 5 incher and bigger devices are mostly for entertainment (eg games) and productivity (eg remote access, working with large sheets etc) it makes a difference that's very easy to see when it's next to 720p device.
    07-03-13 01:27 PM
  14. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Uhh it's about resolution vs real estate - you can simply fit more on a 1080p screen, I thought it's quite obvious.

    Considering 5 incher and bigger devices are mostly for entertainment (eg games) and productivity (eg remote access, working with large sheets etc) it makes a difference that's very easy to see when it's next to 720p device.
    It is not as much as you think. The reason for this is because the touch target is a function of mm/inch size and not pixel size. Currently with 720p, the touch target is 101 x 101 pixels (7.2mm). With a 1080p, guess what size a touch target will be? 7.2mm or 118 x 118 pixels. So with 5 inch touchscreen, a 1080p screen is only 18% larger than a 720p screen, even though the pixel size is 50% larger.

    So in this case, the 5" would not have space for another row of icons or another column without all the icons and layouts changed. It would also means that current apps would not be able to be viewed properly so all apps would have to have to be changed to meet the required UI guidelines. So for no gain in visualization, you make app development much harder.
    Attached Thumbnails A10 to have a 720x1280 Resolution-10sizes.png  
    07-03-13 04:17 PM
  15. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Actually it won't be noticeable. The human eye has limitations for detail. A 720p 295 ppi which is what the A10 will have vs a 1080p 500ppi viewed from just over 10 INCHES, a person with 20/20 cannot see the difference. A 1080p screen is all about a "pissing contest" and nothing to do with usability.

    And who is pushing 1080p screens? Samsung. If BB goes with a 1080p screen, who will they buy it from? Samsung. Since Samsung is a hardware manufacturer, they would love for others to buy higher resolution and more expensive screens. It is a win/win for them and make no difference for
    the consumer.
    You saw the quarterly numbers they reported, did you?
    One simple reason for it being "so bad":

    The price was not adequate, for the hardware offered.

    As a rational human, one would want not to make the same mistake with the future A10.
    But that you apparently think, that even more people will buy an overpriced BlackBerry, even though the competition offers far more, for less money, shows me how delusional you are there.

    The PlayBook was priced too high, and they had to give steep discounts for it to sell. I really thought BlackBerry learned their lesson through the PlayBook pricing fiasco.

    You can belive whatever you want but comparing the display of the S3 and the S4 side by side, shows the difference in screen quality between an old pentile Amoled display with 720p and a new one with 1080p.
    I can see that difference, and a lot of other people can as well.
    This is not even about the pixel density alone.
    It's also about the pentile matrix' shortcomings.

    The Z10 wasn't even that bad considering specs if we take the direct competition as examples, but it has a hard time being sold.
    The A10 will be a joke, considering sale numbers, if it doesn't offer something groundbreaking.

    And do you really think that one can only buy displays from Samsung?
    Is that, a joke?

    After these quarterly numbers, everybody who still wants BlackBerry to sell phones with subpar specs, for far too much money, hasn't understood in what situation BlackBerry is in.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 12:23 AM
  16. Vurhan's Avatar
    After these quarterly numbers, everybody who still wants BlackBerry to sell phones with subpar specs, for far too much money, hasn't understood in what situation BlackBerry is in.

    Posted via CB10
    In a way, yes and no. iPhone has below par specs, but it does have one of the better looking displays at first glance.

    The general concensus killing BBRY is one thing : apps. 1080p means a slight fragmentation of development progress. Slight to the big two ecosystems, but huge to a small player like BB10.

    Although I do admit 1080p is a good progression and a future-proofed one at that, and easily rolls off tongues like "retina".

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9630 using Tapatalk
    07-04-13 03:41 AM
  17. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You saw the quarterly numbers they reported, did you?
    One simple reason for it being "so bad":

    The price was not adequate, for the hardware offered.

    As a rational human, one would want not to make the same mistake with the future A10.
    But that you apparently think, that even more people will buy an overpriced BlackBerry, even though the competition offers far more, for less money, shows me how delusional you are there.

    The PlayBook was priced too high, and they had to give steep discounts for it to sell. I really thought BlackBerry learned their lesson through the PlayBook pricing fiasco.

    You can belive whatever you want but comparing the display of the S3 and the S4 side by side, shows the difference in screen quality between an old pentile Amoled display with 720p and a new one with 1080p.
    I can see that difference, and a lot of other people can as well.
    This is not even about the pixel density alone.
    It's also about the pentile matrix' shortcomings.

    The Z10 wasn't even that bad considering specs if we take the direct competition as examples, but it has a hard time being sold.
    The A10 will be a joke, considering sale numbers, if it doesn't offer something groundbreaking.

    And do you really think that one can only buy displays from Samsung?
    Is that, a joke?

    After these quarterly numbers, everybody who still wants BlackBerry to sell phones with subpar specs, for far too much money, hasn't understood in what situation BlackBerry is in.

    Posted via CB10
    Please show me all the research that says that customers didn't purchase it because it didn't have 1080p. That is all we are talking about here. You want to extend it to all the other hardware. I don't and I hope the A10 comes out with 4GB RAM, quad core, etc. The only thing that I don't want to see is 1080.

    BTW: The biggest complaint I saw was about apps. 1080 wasn't on the radar.
    07-04-13 06:03 AM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Please show me all the research that says that customers didn't purchase it because it didn't have 1080p. That is all we are talking about here. You want to extend it to all the other hardware. I don't and I hope the A10 comes out with 4GB RAM, quad core, etc. The only thing that I don't want to see is 1080.

    BTW: The biggest complaint I saw was about apps. 1080 wasn't on the radar.
    You still don't get it, that we are talking about the overall package here?

    As it stands right now, the hardware will be subpar, for the price.
    It will be overpriced by at least 200$, if BlackBerry prices it similarly to the Q10.

    Did you saw the quarterly numbers?
    They aren't good enough to attract the bigger named apps for now.

    The question is, why haven't we seen a greater success, considering sales?
    One answer lies in the price of BB10 devices.
    Since they do not undercut the competition, but on the contrary, they cost even more, but offer less, the consumer is reluctant to adopt the new platform.

    That the new A10, won't at least offer similar specs, compared to the competition, will not help the cause.

    The lack of a 1080p display is only one symptom, of BlackBerry's pricing and adoption problem.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 06:25 AM
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You still don't get it, that we are talking about the overall package here?
    No. You don't get it. All that I am talking about on this thread is 720p vs 1080. Did you see the topic title?

    How about I agree with everything you say, except that it should have 720 and not 1080. Does that make you feel better?
    07-04-13 06:34 AM
  20. SuperionMaximus's Avatar
    Amen to that, can't anyone here get any msg to BlackBerry directly, come on like some body must no some body who's brother works there, right? BlackBerry needs to listen too us or there fuct plain and simple. I want them to succeed so bad but it's just getting painfull to watch some of the time.

    Rocking blk Z10

    Posted via CB10
    At this point there would be no way to make changes to the A10 (if that's what it gets called). Any phone that is launching this year would be well past the point of no return as far as the hardware spec is concerned.

    They would be well into quality assurance at the manufacturing level testing the machines that will be producing things like the back cover, housing, and digitizer for consistency in small runs and also doing small assembly runs to ensure fit and finish of the final hardware.

    At this point, if the phone is going to launch this year, the only things that could change are things like the MicroUSB port, or the speaker, or the vibrate motor. If they find a quality issue with an individual component or they find that they need to make minor tweaks to a certain component to improve quality or performance they can. That's what those small runs are for.

    But big things like the screen, or the CPU, are not going to change at this stage.
    07-04-13 08:19 AM
  21. mithrazor's Avatar
    Please show me all the research that says that customers didn't purchase it because it didn't have 1080p. That is all we are talking about here. You want to extend it to all the other hardware. I don't and I hope the A10 comes out with 4GB RAM, quad core, etc. The only thing that I don't want to see is 1080.

    BTW: The biggest complaint I saw was about apps. 1080 wasn't on the radar.
    Let me just pull this research where it says customers didn't purchase an A10 because it doesn't have a 1080p screen out my *** real quick.
    07-04-13 11:40 AM
  22. RECOOL's Avatar
    It's not inconceivable that the A10 could come out with a 1080p screen because the final specs have yet to be announced; and no one has seen or touched an alpha or beta model yet.

    Yeah yeah they promised the developers 720p only yada yada... use some common sense instead of nitpicking for things to get angry at. this isn't an insurmountable obstacle.

    Some posters in this thread have stated that there is distortion and blurring associated with scaling from 720p to 1080p. I would pre-order that Q device now.

    This is not exactly true: there is no distortion scaling between 720 and 1080 in either direction. There will be very slight blurring going from 720p to 1080p... on a 5 inches device you'd have to be touching the screen with your nose to see it.

    Some posters in this thread have also stated that there is no scaler. All you have to do is plug in your micro HDMI cable to see that is absolutely false. The currently released bb10 devices can already output 1080p.

    All BlackBerry needs to promise is limit the number of screen ratios to developed for to 1:1 and 1.7:1. It just makes more sense implement something scalable.

    This way apps written for the q10 will scale to work on a future Q phone with 1080x1080 screens.
    The mother of god hybrid that would be a legendary device.Heck any Q phone with a screen bigger 4 inches=legendary
    07-04-13 11:45 AM
  23. alternator77's Avatar
    Screw 1080p give me a phone with 4K resolution or better yet 8K that way no one can touch it for years.

    Posted via CB10
    07-04-13 09:28 PM
  24. BBThemes's Avatar
    Please show me all the research that says that customers didn't purchase it because it didn't have 1080p. That is all we are talking about here. You want to extend it to all the other hardware. I don't and I hope the A10 comes out with 4GB RAM, quad core, etc. The only thing that I don't want to see is 1080.

    BTW: The biggest complaint I saw was about apps. 1080 wasn't on the radar.
    ok, so firstly whats the point in that 4Gb of ram? im being serious here, if im constrained to 8 open apps like in the current BB10 OS then 2Gb is perfectly fine, if they allow me to have more apps open then yea theres a use case, but if im still limited then why bother?

    As for 1080p, is it just a spec war? or does it link into the `biggest complaint you saw` which is apps. if im building an app then I have to think about the res, and how buttons will look on that size screen etc, so actually from a developer point of view I want it to be 1080p as that's across most android devices too, so then a lot of devs can port existing items easily rather than have to spend extra time to build new assets. And before you point out the OS can up/downscale the assets as long as the aspect ratio is right, that will use up more cpu and gpu power to do so and therefore kill you battery quicker, so running in a `native` screen size is far more preferable.
    07-04-13 09:43 PM
  25. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    ok, so firstly whats the point in that 4Gb of ram? im being serious here, if im constrained to 8 open apps like in the current BB10 OS then 2Gb is perfectly fine, if they allow me to have more apps open then yea theres a use case, but if im still limited then why bother?
    But posters like MarsupilamiX and other say that if it doesn't have awesome specs, then it will fail. I just threw that out. I don't see 3GB or 4GB of RAM an issue. It would mean that any upgrade to BB11 that might need more RAM would be good to go.

    As for 1080p, is it just a spec war? or does it link into the `biggest complaint you saw` which is apps. if im building an app then I have to think about the res, and how buttons will look on that size screen etc, so actually from a developer point of view I want it to be 1080p as that's across most android devices too, so then a lot of devs can port existing items easily rather than have to spend extra time to build new assets. And before you point out the OS can up/downscale the assets as long as the aspect ratio is right, that will use up more cpu and gpu power to do so and therefore kill you battery quicker, so running in a `native` screen size is far more preferable.
    If you are building an app, you already have 768 and 720 to deal with. Now you want three? What about WP and iOS developers who want to port, they don't have 1080p. And thanks for pointing out to others that scaling images uses more power.
    07-04-13 10:17 PM
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