07-06-13 04:13 PM
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  1. mithrazor's Avatar
    Sorry. If the photo is stored at a higher resolution that 720, you don't gain anything in detail. You are zooming in on an area and the pixels on the phone are still higher than you eye can see. It is all to do on the storage of the image, not the screen.

    Reading distance is 14 inches, you can't see any better.



    So you are saying that it isn't screen resolutions that sell, it's now price? Or is it another feature like battery life, or a 24MP camera? All I am hearing is that if the phone doesn't have 1080p, it will fail. I don't agree with your assessment.

    How are you going to tell me what my reading distance is? I have a Curve 9360 and my font is on small, I usually have my phone at 4-6 inches away from my face because of that (hint: I do read at that distance). Stop acting like people can't have the phone closer to their face than the magical 10-14 inch number.

    How you use the phone, or whatever the optimal viewing distance for a 720p screen is doesn't mean people don't have a closer viewing distance. Get real.

    Does your memory not go further than the post you quoted me in?? I said the Moto X at 720p is a midrange phone (last year specs) that is cheaper than flagships of 2012. Where as the A10 (also known as BlackBerry's flagship), will be priced at guess what, 700 dollars. Have the same specs as the Moto X. THAT is what won't sell a phone. Do you like it when I have to spoon feed you information?

    You need to go back to school. I'm not saying I won't get the A10 but if BB wants to sell like hotcakes, they're not doing it right.

    I've said it before, right now, they're losing the spec AND experience race. Thor proclaimed to even be in one of those races.
    06-18-13 11:13 PM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Yes I hear you. At the A10 price point, 1080P is rather obligatory. Especially so since the BB10 native browser normally displays font that is barely visible to the naked eye.
    MarsupilamiX and mithrazor like this.
    06-18-13 11:19 PM
  3. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Yes I hear you. At the A10 price point, 1080P is rather obligatory. Especially so since the BB10 native browser normally displays font that is barely visible to the naked eye.
    Hope you are joking. More resolution will make the font smaller, not bigger.
    06-18-13 11:22 PM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    How are you going to tell me what my reading distance is? I have a Curve 9360 and my font is on small, I usually have my phone at 4-6 inches away from my face because of that (hint: I do read at that distance). Stop acting like people can't have the phone closer to their face than the magical 10-14 inch number.

    How you use the phone, or whatever the optimal viewing distance for a 720p screen is doesn't mean people don't have a closer viewing distance. Get real.

    Does your memory not go further than the post you quoted me in?? I said the Moto X at 720p is a midrange phone (last year specs) that is cheaper than flagships of 2012. Where as the A10 (also known as BlackBerry's flagship), will be priced at guess what, 700 dollars. Have the same specs as the Moto X. THAT is what won't sell a phone. Do you like it when I have to spoon feed you information?

    You need to go back to school. I'm not saying I won't get the A10 but if BB wants to sell like hotcakes, they're not doing it right.

    I've said it before, right now, they're losing the spec AND experience race. Thor proclaimed to even be in one of those races.
    Well, I like the BlackBerry10 experience a lot, and I would say that they did something incredibly great, thinking back of OS7 and seeing its obvious limitations.

    But you are completely right when talking about specs and $.
    The new Moto will be a mid-range phone.
    The Huawei phone, Bluenoser used to make my point, is also a mid-range device.

    If the A10 sells for the same money as other mid/high-end devices there will be no problem.

    The price of Samsung's S3 right now, 460$, would be fair for the A10, if it doesn't come with an ultimate USP.

    http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy...bUvbUpU8676200



    Posted via CB10
    06-18-13 11:44 PM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Hope you are joking. More resolution will make the font smaller, not bigger.
    Oh .. well then I need 480 P or something like that ..maybe that explains why my 9900 has better browser text views. ha ha
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 06-19-13 at 12:28 AM.
    06-19-13 12:01 AM
  6. NobleNintyNine's Avatar
    All of you claiming that 1080p is better for a mobile display are truly not knowledgeable in LCD and OLED technology.

    Android is the only OS currently running on 1080 mobile, because they need specs to justify a upgrade from the identical experience of the previous year.

    Apple, Microsoft and BlackBerry all don't feel the need to compete in this unnecessary ppi race. I've personally seen the z10 LCD display outclass the sharpness and richness of some of the top Android 5" flagship OLED devices.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 01:06 AM
  7. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    All of you claiming that 1080p is better for a mobile display are truly not knowledgeable in LCD and OLED technology.

    Android is the only OS currently running on 1080 mobile, because they need specs to justify a upgrade from the identical experience of the previous year.

    Apple, Microsoft and BlackBerry all don't feel the need to compete in this unnecessary ppi race. I've personally seen the z10 LCD display outclass the sharpness and richness of some of the top Android 5" flagship OLED devices.

    Posted via CB10
    I have a number of answers in mind...

    But I'll refrain from it, and just prove you wrong where it is easy to do:

    http://www.windowscentral.com/window...ort-later-year

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/9/419...rt-gdr3-update

    Windows Phone will have the support for these panels very soon.

    Apple only makes 3.5 and 4 inch phones as of now and plays by other rules. You cannot compare Apple and BlackBerry like you try to do it.

    The only one left out of 1080p support for bigger screened devices will be BlackBerry as WP8 will adapt them and it already became a standard on Android flagship devices.

    The HTC One uses a 1080p panel and its an LCD.
    This display is superior to the one in the Z10 already.
    I don't even want to imagine the comparisons between the new A10 and the HTC One.
    They will be brutal...

    Since the A10 will use an Amoled screen, probably with a pentile matrix, the talk about 1080p is actually pretty relevant.

    Here a comparison between the S3, S4 and the iPhone:

    http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S4_ShootOut_1.htm

    The display in the iPhone is still better, depending on where you are looking at, but the 1080p display in the S4 outclasses the 720p one in the S3 by a far margin.

    And I hope that I am not the only one, who thinks that it is incredibly ironic when you say that Apple doesn't compete in the PPI race.
    They are the ones who started it...

    In the Notebook industry with the Retina MacBook Pro, in the tablet space with the Retina iPad and in the phone segment with the Retina iPhone.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 01:22 AM
  8. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    And I hope that I am not the only one, who thinks that it is incredibly ironic when you say that Apple doesn't compete in the PPI race.
    They are the ones who started it...

    In the Notebook industry with the Retina MacBook Pro, in the tablet space with the Retina iPad and in the phone segment with the Retina iPhone.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes. They got to a level where it was diminishing returns and called it Retina displays. Everything above that is not needed.
    06-19-13 07:01 AM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yes. They got to a level where it was diminishing returns and called it Retina displays. Everything above that is not needed.
    They only make 3.5 and 4 inch phones.
    The debate was never about these screen sizes.

    But tell me, what does Apple use as a resolution on the 10 inch Retina iPad?

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 07:05 AM
  10. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    They only make 3.5 and 4 inch phones.
    The debate was never about these screen sizes.

    But tell me, what does Apple use as a resolution on the 10 inch Retina iPad?

    Posted via CB10
    264 pixels per inch (ppi). This number is less than the 295 ppi for a 5" A10 or 315 ppi for a 4.65" A10. All these numbers are higher than what someone with 20/20 can see. Once ppi is lower because of the screen size, then I am all for upping the resolution. If BB came out with a 10 inch tablet and it didn't have at least 1080p, I would be upset. But for smaller devices, there is no benefit for ultra ppi.
    06-19-13 07:14 AM
  11. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    264 pixels per inch (ppi). This number is less than the 295 ppi for a 5" A10 or 315 ppi for a 4.65" A10. All these numbers are higher than what someone with 20/20 can see.
    Why ignore the resolution?

    You said that Apple isn't in the PPI race. Which is entirely wrong.
    They are in it, in every segment they enter.
    I still haven't seen a tablet outmatching the Retina iPad on the resolution, or other Notebooks "crushing" the MacBook Pros with Retina display on its resolution...

    Oh and btw, I never heard you comment on the price of the A10.
    If the A10 uses a 720p display and other old Hardware, but costs the same as the HTC One/S4 would you really consider that as being fair and representing the consumer's best interests?

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 07:21 AM
  12. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Why ignore the resolution?Posted via CB10
    Because if you haven't noticed, (you didn't) my whole discussion is about ppi and what the human eye can see. It all depends on the ppi and the size of the screen that the pixels are on. If the ppi is above what the human eye can see, you have reached the max in useability. Anything more is just snake oil from marketing people trying to sell unnecessary and useless "features" to line their pockets.

    Once a screen sizes ppi is below what the eye can see, then there is a need to increase the resolution of the screen to make it clearer. If a screens resolution is twice as good as what the human eye can see, it is a waste.

    Being in marketing, I can see how informing consumers to the truth can put your business in jeopardy.
    06-19-13 07:53 AM
  13. zeeten's Avatar
    Because if you haven't noticed, (you didn't) my whole discussion is about ppi and what the human eye can see. It all depends on the ppi and the size of the screen that the pixels are on. If the ppi is above what the human eye can see, you have reached the max in useability. Anything more is just snake oil from marketing people trying to sell unnecessary and useless "features" to line their pockets.

    Once a screen sizes ppi is below what the eye can see, then there is a need to increase the resolution of the screen to make it clearer. If a screens resolution is twice as good as what the human eye can see, it is a waste.

    Being in marketing, I can see how informing consumers to the truth can put your business in jeopardy.
    Why don't you understand that consumers don't care about the truth?
    (Everyone you're arguing with agrees that from a practical perspective 1080 isn't necessary)
    Consumers want bragging rights and good value for their money. With a 1080 screen they can say the specs are top.
    That justifies paying the same price as other high end phones.


    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 11:11 AM
  14. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    Because if you haven't noticed, (you didn't) my whole discussion is about ppi and what the human eye can see. It all depends on the ppi and the size of the screen that the pixels are on. If the ppi is above what the human eye can see, you have reached the max in useability. Anything more is just snake oil from marketing people trying to sell unnecessary and useless "features" to line their pockets.

    Once a screen sizes ppi is below what the eye can see, then there is a need to increase the resolution of the screen to make it clearer. If a screens resolution is twice as good as what the human eye can see, it is a waste.

    Being in marketing, I can see how informing consumers to the truth can put your business in jeopardy.
    I agree with you in that a 1080p screen on a phone may be a bit much, but that isn't the argument. The argument is whether BlackBerry is, in a way, shooting itself in the foot by undercutting its device even before people try out the software because it's being priced the same as devices with higher specs. I love the BlackBerry 10 experience, but you need something tangible to persuade potential buyers that a price is justified. Specs allow for that and it's very difficult to argue in favor of a lower specced device for the same price, especially for one with a new OS like BlackBerry 10.


    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    06-19-13 11:43 AM
  15. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    I agree with you in that a 1080p screen on a phone may be a bit much, but that isn't the argument. The argument is whether BlackBerry is, in a way, shooting itself in the foot by undercutting its device even before people try out the software because it's being priced the same as devices with higher specs. I love the BlackBerry 10 experience, but you need something tangible to persuade potential buyers that a price is justified. Specs allow for that and it's very difficult to argue in favor of a lower specced device for the same price, especially for one with a new OS like BlackBerry 10.
    Posted via CB10
    So the solution is a higher than visible screen resolution, poorer battery life and making it harder for developers in creating apps that users demand. Sound like a better strategy.
    06-19-13 12:05 PM
  16. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    I'm telling you all 800x600 is the way to goon a 5 inch device, you can play medal of honour allied assult on high graphics ! storm those beaches
    mithrazor likes this.
    06-19-13 12:12 PM
  17. zeeten's Avatar
    So the solution is a higher than visible screen resolution, poorer battery life and making it harder for developers in creating apps that users demand. Sound like a better strategy.
    With a 2800 mAH battery, the battery life will be much better than it is on the Z10 even with higher resolution. Most people just want to be able to get through a full day of heavy use.

    As for the developers, if they spend time developing quality apps instead of arguing all day on forums, they will make more money. I think even you can understand that harder work often results in more return.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 01:45 PM
  18. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    So the solution is a higher than visible screen resolution, poorer battery life and making it harder for developers in creating apps that users demand. Sound like a better strategy.
    The consumer doesn't care how much work has to happen so that it works, as long as it works.

    You get your reward through the cash they pay.
    Without consumers having devices that interest them, devs have no market to develop for.

    And now guess what consumers love?
    A high specced device.

    Tell me please how a high price tag for the A10 is justified.

    I agree with you in that a 1080p screen on a phone may be a bit much, but that isn't the argument. The argument is whether BlackBerry is, in a way, shooting itself in the foot by undercutting its device even before people try out the software because it's being priced the same as devices with higher specs. I love the BlackBerry 10 experience, but you need something tangible to persuade potential buyers that a price is justified. Specs allow for that and it's very difficult to argue in favor of a lower specced device for the same price, especially for one with a new OS like BlackBerry 10.

    Posted via CB10
    ^
    What he said.
    FlashFlare11 likes this.
    06-19-13 04:01 PM
  19. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The consumer doesn't care how much work has to happen so that it works, as long as it works. You get your reward through the cash they pay.
    Without consumers having devices that interest them, devs have no market to develop for.
    Part of the reason that I choose BB10 as a development platform is that it looked like a good platform to develop for. Yes there are three screen resolutions which can cause problems. But I can disable landscape mode so the A10 and Q10 will have the same width and all I have to do is make blank space on the sides of the Z10 in portrait mode and disable landscape. So everything is the same. If the A10 is 1080p, which will make it much harder to develop for, why would I choose a platform that has limited users. If BB makes it just as difficult in screen resolution as the other OS platforms, it would be better to develop for the others and drop BB. Maybe port them as an Android app in the future. If I have to do the same amount of work, I would be better rewarded to go to the larger market. This is the issue that developer will have deal with and make their own decisions on which platform to develop for.

    Without apps, users don't care to purchase any device, no matter what the screen resolution is. The biggest complaint that has been leveled time and again for the BB10 platform is the lack of good quality native apps. So I think it would be stupid to make it harder for developers.
    06-19-13 05:39 PM
  20. MasterOfBinary's Avatar
    The consumer doesn't care how much work has to happen so that it works, as long as it works.

    You get your reward through the cash they pay.
    Without consumers having devices that interest them, devs have no market to develop for.

    And now guess what consumers love?
    A high specced device.

    Tell me please how a high price tag for the A10 is justified.


    ^
    What he said.
    I admire your patience. I gave up on this thread a while ago.
    MarsupilamiX and mithrazor like this.
    06-19-13 06:05 PM
  21. FlashFlare11's Avatar
    Part of the reason that I choose BB10 as a development platform is that it looked like a good platform to develop for. Yes there are three screen resolutions which can cause problems. But I can disable landscape mode so the A10 and Q10 will have the same width and all I have to do is make blank space on the sides of the Z10 in portrait mode and disable landscape. So everything is the same. If the A10 is 1080p, which will make it much harder to develop for, why would I choose a platform that has limited users. If BB makes it just as difficult in screen resolution as the other OS platforms, it would be better to develop for the others and drop BB. Maybe port them as an Android app in the future. If I have to do the same amount of work, I would be better rewarded to go to the larger market. This is the issue that developer will have deal with and make their own decisions on which platform to develop for.

    Without apps, users don't care to purchase any device, no matter what the screen resolution is. The biggest complaint that has been leveled time and again for the BB10 platform is the lack of good quality native apps. So I think it would be stupid to make it harder for developers.
    I actually think BlackBerry is to blame for this to begin with. Soon after the BlackBerry 10 SDK was first launched, BlackBerry knew that, aside from the Z1010, every future device for the foreseeable future would be one of two screen resolutions. Instead of committing to 1280x720, it should've left it to be announced at a future date and only specified 1280x768 and 720x720.

    With the current trend in smartphone technology, it's very dangerous to make commitments of this kind so far in advance in a market that changes so rapidly. BlackBerry should've had some more foresight and left the future resolutions to be announced at a later date, like BlackBerry Jam this year.

    Posted via CB10
    mithrazor likes this.
    06-19-13 06:17 PM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Part of the reason that I choose BB10 as a development platform is that it looked like a good platform to develop for. Yes there are three screen resolutions which can cause problems. But I can disable landscape mode so the A10 and Q10 will have the same width and all I have to do is make blank space on the sides of the Z10 in portrait mode and disable landscape. So everything is the same. If the A10 is 1080p, which will make it much harder to develop for, why would I choose a platform that has limited users. If BB makes it just as difficult in screen resolution as the other OS platforms, it would be better to develop for the others and drop BB. Maybe port them as an Android app in the future. If I have to do the same amount of work, I would be better rewarded to go to the larger market. This is the issue that developer will have deal with and make their own decisions on which platform to develop for.

    Without apps, users don't care to purchase any device, no matter what the screen resolution is. The biggest complaint that has been leveled time and again for the BB10 platform is the lack of good quality native apps. So I think it would be stupid to make it harder for developers.
    I totally understand your reasoning on this one, but you do not understand how consumers think.

    This is the problem.

    You can accuse me of selling tiger blood and snake oil all you want , but the market has already decided that 1080p is the new standard for future bigger screened devices.

    There is no going back there and BlackBerry is to blame to a certain extent for not being able to anticipate where the market is heading, considering specs and preferences.

    As I asked you a number of times now:

    How can BlackBerry justify to use "bad" specs on their flagship device but still sell it for a premium price tag?
    Please explain me that...


    I actually think BlackBerry is to blame for this to begin with. Soon after the BlackBerry 10 SDK was first launched, BlackBerry knew that, aside from the Z1010, every future device for the foreseeable future would be one of two screen resolutions. Instead of committing to 1280x720, it should've left it to be announced at a future date and only specified 1280x768 and 720x720.

    With the current trend in smartphone technology, it's very dangerous to make commitments of this kind so far in advance in a market that changes so rapidly. BlackBerry should've had some more foresight and left the future resolutions to be announced at a later date, like BlackBerry Jam this year.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree with you.

    BlackBerry is to blame, at least partially, for not handling this matter with more delicacy.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 07:56 PM
  23. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    You can accuse me of selling tiger blood and snake oil all you want , but the market has already decided that 1080p is the new standard for future bigger screened devices.
    More snake oil. Please show me a study that shows that the reason that consumers choose what they have becaise of 1080p. Hint: You won't find one.
    06-19-13 10:42 PM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    More snake oil. Please show me a study that shows that the reason that consumers choose what they have becaise of 1080p. Hint: You won't find one.
    You're problem is reading comprehension.

    Can you buy an Android flagship without a 1080p display now?

    And you still haven't answered my question how BlackBerry should justify an elevated price without the specs to back it up.
    Explain me how they should do it.

    Posted via CB10
    06-19-13 10:48 PM
  25. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I would be looking at the entire phone to see if it was worthy.
    Does the screen size / phone size approach the packaging efficiency of the Xperia ?
    Does it look and feel top grade like an iphone?
    Is the screen bright and sharp with good contrast and coloration?
    Is the camera up to the level of the Nokia or nearly so ?
    Does the browser have "text reflow?
    Is it copy cat or does it have Blackberry flair ?
    Can you get an honest day's operation from this device ?
    Does it stand out and say , this the best phone ever ?

    Or

    Is it just a Z10 on steroids.
    06-20-13 12:12 AM
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