07-06-13 04:13 PM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    The discussion is all mute. Here is what Blackberry has told developers.



    https://developer.blackberry.com/cas...ces/index.html

    Blackberry cannot afford to turn away app developers by lying to them.
    As wad said before, 1080p is becoming an industry standard so devs will have to follow suit either way, be it now, or when the next high-end flagship will be released.

    So, no matter what happens, BlackBerry will be lying to you one way or another, as BlackBerry, if it exists long enough, will switch to 1080p anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-13 01:29 PM
  2. bekkay's Avatar
    Before I can answer that question, answer these:
    After they put work on iOS and Android apps to scale well, how much more work are they willing to put on BlackBerry devices?
    How much work do they have to do to make the iOS and Android apps scale well in the first place?

    iOS use objective C, Android use Java, BlackBerry use C++ and QML. Devs already have to deal with different programming languages on top of dealing with different resolutions. At the end of the day, supporting more device/resolution costs more money: the longer it takes, the more expensive it is. How willing are shareholders to support BlackBerry if they have to deal with more resolutions once 1080p device comes out?

    They don't have a magical button that makes ports perfectly

    STL 100-1 10.1.0.273
    The problem with this is that people will expect 1080p from a flagship device. "Subpar" resolution is just another reason for SOME people to overlook BB10 phones. I am pretty sure Apple and MS realize this as well and we will be seeing at least 1080p iPhone (there was already a rumor of a 4.7 and 5.5 inch iPhone) and high-end 1080p WP8 phone pretty soon.
    06-15-13 01:33 PM
  3. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    As I told you before, I can see the difference... Even though after your Math, it should be impossible.

    And I am still waiting for the names of your apps, since you seem to be such a prodigy.
    OK Superman who can see a difference that the human eye cannot. What business(es) do you run as you seem to know all about what Blackberry should do as a business case.

    My apps are currently in development. I am trying to create one that requires precise location of elements and that will work on all three resolutions as defined by Blackberry for current and future devices. That is why I know what it takes to develop for the BB10 platform. It comes from experience. Since you don't have any, then you will either take my word for it or experience it for yourself, by reading the docs

    https://developer.blackberry.com/cas...ces/index.html

    https://developer.blackberry.com/cas...ion/index.html

    https://developer.blackberry.com/cas...solutions.html

    and downloading the development tools and trying yourself. When you have done that, we can talk.

    https://developer.blackberry.com/cascades/downloads/
    06-15-13 01:35 PM
  4. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    As wad said before, 1080p is becoming an industry standard so devs will have to follow suit either way, be it now, or when the next high-end flagship will be released.

    So, no matter what happens, BlackBerry will be lying to you one way or another, as BlackBerry, if it exists long enough, will switch to 1080p anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    Since the human eye, other than yours cannot see the difference, it may not be standard as soon as you think.
    06-15-13 01:38 PM
  5. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    The problem with this is that people will expect 1080p from a flagship device. "Subpar" resolution is just another reason for SOME people to overlook BB10 phones. I am pretty sure Apple and MS realize this as well and we will be seeing at least 1080p iPhone (there was already a rumor of a 4.7 and 5.5 inch iPhone) and high-end 1080p WP8 phone pretty soon.
    Really? Most people don't have a clue about 1080p, but the do know what apps are not available.
    06-15-13 01:40 PM
  6. texazzpete's Avatar
    An example would be the major differences in how my Z10 And SIII operate and the fluidity that exists on my Z that is missing on my S. This despite running the same processor and Ram.

    Posted via CB10
    Can you tell me how someone who does not buy the Z10 can compare the 'fluidity' with the S3? Not sure why you're chickening out and using the S3 for comparison...the Z10 is now in shops competing with the S4. On paper, the S4 completely CRUSHES the Z10 with practically every spec out there. The likelihood of an average consumer picking a device with worse screen, worse CPU, worse GPU, worse camera (on paper, mind you) is low when he can pick up the much better specced device for the same price!!

    Price! Let that word swirl in your mind. It's the price that determines the product placement as a premium device. Spec-wise, the offerings from BlackBerry right now are noticeably outclassed by the top Android OEMs and this, no doubt, is costing some serious sales.

    Nokia's upcoming EOS will have a slower CPU, GPU and poorer screen than the S4. But 41 MP will make Joe Q Public do a double-take. If only you knew how many people bought the dead end 808 Pureview for that same camera prowess even when it was running the dead end Symbian OS.
    06-15-13 01:53 PM
  7. Saiga's Avatar
    My apps are currently in development.
    Crazy that BlackBerry let you trade in your Dev Alpha for a shiny red limited edition with "in development" apps. Oddly, I had to have finished apps to even qualify for my Dev Alpha in the first place. Then I had to have finished apps to qualify for both of my Limited Edition Z10s. You must be a really talented developer, with amazing "development experience" to qualify for those offers with unfinished apps. Truly amazing.
    06-15-13 02:24 PM
  8. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Since the human eye, other than yours cannot see the difference, it may not be standard as soon as you think.
    Since I don't have the time to answer you in detail about your other post, I will just tell you that 1080p already is the standard for every newly launched Android device, when it hits a certain screen size.

    It is more or less impossible to buy a flagship Android device now without it having a 1080p screen.
    This is by definition a standard.

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-13 02:25 PM
  9. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Oddly, I had to have finished apps to even qualify for my Dev Alpha in the first place.
    Really? That wasn't how Dev Alpha's were given out. As long as BBRY deemed that you were a suitable developer, you got one if you showed up to the Jam sessions.

    I do have a qualified app, but it wasn't much. It did qualify me for the LE so you will have to live with that.

    Oh, but I forgot, all images are faked.

    PS. Most of my apps are internal ones to my company. We have purchased dozens of Playbooks, Z10s and Q10s. The proof of the development environment was enough to purchase lots of new devices and management them with BES10.x. All because our VP could see what we could do with a Dev Alpha device and the development tools. Good move on BB's part.
    Attached Thumbnails A10 to have a 720x1280 Resolution-lez10.png  
    06-15-13 02:37 PM
  10. Saiga's Avatar
    Yeah. And I got a Q10 with 1GB RAM. Jealous much?
    Haha, not really. At least not about that. I have a Dev Alpha C with 2gb of ram. Its nice to have that extra ram even though you've proven it isn't needed at all. I'm sure you also have a DAC though, so you know what I mean.
    06-15-13 02:42 PM
  11. Saiga's Avatar
    Really? That wasn't how Dev Alpha's were given out. As long as BBRY deemed that you were a suitable developer, you got one if you showed up to the Jam sessions.

    I do have a qualified app, but it wasn't much. It did qualify me for the LE so you will have to live with that.

    Oh, but I forgot, all images are faked.
    Who is here you go? You posted that same picture weeks ago and then removed it right after Lol come on! Can't find a image with a LEZ10 that says your name or my name? Haha


    Attachment 172506

    I'm serious, I will sell it to ya for $800. Brand brand new. That's only the second time it's been out of its box. It has never had a battery in it. I don't need two LEZ10s. That's the only reason I'm selling it. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.
    Last edited by Saiga; 06-15-13 at 03:28 PM.
    06-15-13 02:45 PM
  12. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Since I don't have the time to answer you in detail about your other post, I will just tell you that 1080p already is the standard for every newly launched Android device, when it hits a certain screen size.

    It is more or less impossible to buy a flagship Android device now without it having a 1080p screen.
    This is by definition a standard.

    Posted via CB10
    SO iPhones and WPs are non-standard. Got it.
    06-15-13 02:46 PM
  13. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    To add to my earlier point...and show you how people use paper specs to argue a case for their device of choice, take a look at this post from this fellow



    His Blackberry Z10 has a 1.5Ghz dual core CPU. he sees an iPhone 5 running at 1.3Ghz. Despite extensive benchmarks and tests from the likes of Anandtech showing that Apple's custom CPU outstrips the Snapdragon S4 in all usable cross platform benchmarks, he assumes the Z10 is faster because of the higher clock speed of the CPU.
    In this case, the CPU clock speed and the RAM is what he clings to as evidence that his desired phone is better.

    Now when you walk into a store and you see the Galaxy S4 beside the Z10, what you see is

    1. 1.9 Ghz Quad Core Snapdragon 600 vs 1.5Ghz Dual Core Snapdragon S4 (the magical word 'Quad Core')
    2. 1080p 'Full HD' Screen vs 720p screen ('Full HD' is another magical word)
    3. Super AMOLED HD vs LCD ( There's already a growing hype around SuperAMOLED...some consumers are swayed by it)
    4. 12MP Camera vs 8 MP Camera (99% of laymen still view megapixel count as an indication of camera quality)


    Now when someone walks into a store as an undecided customer, he sees 1080p, 12MP camera, Quad Core and SuperAMOLED in one phone, it's very easy for his decision to be swayed in that direction.

    This is what Windows Phone and Blackberry need to do to grow at the high end. iPhone users are usually very satisfied with their devices, and iOS7 is bound to keep lots of old users in the fold. The main growth area is in hoovering up dissatisfied Android customers. And you NEED premium devices with superlative specs to do that.

    Nokia is ready for that. Their next AT&T phone will not have a 1080p screen. It may not have an AMOLED screen. What it will have is a frigging 41 Megapixels camera. That is an attention grabber...they will sell quite a bit of those, mark my words. Blackberry needs an attention grabbing device to spur sales.
    your right the S4 is obviously the better choice. time to get an s4 it can make my bed at night and breakfast in the morning right. all kidding aside from a pure spec perspective the s4 makes the z10 look like a toy,
    06-15-13 02:55 PM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    SO iPhones and WPs are non-standard. Got it.
    Yes, considering market share as well as a device being high-end you totally got it.

    Android with 70% marketshare and dominating everywhere except the US, is by definition more of a standard than the other two.

    Do you really want to argue about semantics here? If yes, you already lost that part of the debate.

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-13 03:02 PM
  15. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    your right the S4 is obviously the better choice. time to get an s4 it can make my bed at night and breakfast in the morning right. all kidding aside from a pure spec perspective the s4 makes the z10 look like a toy,
    We are talking about what the average consumer will see and think.

    And what Texazzpete wrote, is exactly what Joe Doe would experience.

    He never talked about what phone is better, just about the specs and a sales experience at BestBuy or a carrier store.

    And because of that BlackBerry puts itself in a bad light, through going with "subpar" hardware.

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-13 03:06 PM
  16. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Who is here you go? You posted that same picture weeks ago and then removed it right after Lol come on! Can't find a image with a LEZ10 that says your name or my name? Haha
    Jokes on you.
    Attached Thumbnails A10 to have a 720x1280 Resolution-saiga.jpg  
    06-15-13 03:27 PM
  17. Saiga's Avatar
    Finally! Lol now was that hard to do?

    But still, I want to sell my spare. Let me know. The value on Z10's have plummeted. Even the LEZ10 don't go for much. Longer I hang on to it the worst the resell value will get. You could always use a spare


    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    06-15-13 03:35 PM
  18. grover5's Avatar
    Can you tell me how someone who does not buy the Z10 can compare the 'fluidity' with the S3? Not sure why you're chickening out and using the S3 for comparison...the Z10 is now in shops competing with the S4. On paper, the S4 completely CRUSHES the Z10 with practically every spec out there. The likelihood of an average consumer picking a device with worse screen, worse CPU, worse GPU, worse camera (on paper, mind you) is low when he can pick up the much better specced device for the same price!!

    Price! Let that word swirl in your mind. It's the price that determines the product placement as a premium device. Spec-wise, the offerings from BlackBerry right now are noticeably outclassed by the top Android OEMs and this, no doubt, is costing some serious sales.

    Nokia's upcoming EOS will have a slower CPU, GPU and poorer screen than the S4. But 41 MP will make Joe Q Public do a double-take. If only you knew how many people bought the dead end 808 Pureview for that same camera prowess even when it was running the dead end Symbian OS.
    You always seem so angry when you post. I compared the SIII because it has the exact same specs as the Z10. I didn't realize you were going to equate the decision as a reflection of my courage. I disagree with your take on the market. I think performance and app selection will ultimately determine BlackBerry success or failure. I don't think jeopardizing your relationship with your brand new app developer base for the sake of having a 1080p display over a 720p display is wise. Obviously you feel they should. I'm happy to debate you but your going to have to be more mature and less emotional.

    Posted via CB10
    06-15-13 03:40 PM
  19. buylocal_getaBB's Avatar
    I would love to see the average user stand in front of 2 HDTVs that are identical other than resolution and point out which one is better.
    Good point

    Posted via my Zed (not Zee) 10
    06-15-13 03:43 PM
  20. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Finally! Lol now was that hard to do?

    But still, I want to sell my spare. Let me know. The value on Z10's have plummeted. Even the LEZ10 don't go for much. Longer I hang on to it the worst the resell value will get. You could always use a spare


    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    Why would I? I have a Z10, a LE Z10, and a Q10. All cost me zero.
    06-15-13 03:47 PM
  21. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    Finally! Lol now was that hard to do?

    But still, I want to sell my spare. Let me know. The value on Z10's have plummeted. Even the LEZ10 don't go for much. Longer I hang on to it the worst the resell value will get. You could always use a spare


    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    Wait... You aren't going to tell me I faked it? Does that mean that you accept all my other screenshots?
    06-15-13 03:48 PM
  22. Saiga's Avatar
    Why would I? I have a Z10, a LE Z10, and a Q10. All cost me zero.
    No Dev Alpha C? Only one LE? A Q10 with only half of the ram?

    I made out better, besides the LEZ10s and DAC, and three PlayBooks from BlackBerry developer promotions. I got the Q10 as a review unit. I love BlackBerry's willingness to give away free stuff.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    06-15-13 03:55 PM
  23. Saiga's Avatar
    Wait... You aren't going to tell me I faked it? Does that mean that you accept all my other screenshots?

    I'm not sure if you have poor reading comprehension or just bad social skills, but you may have noticed that I never said any of your screenshots were real or fake. Not once.

    I simply pointed out how easy it is to fake screenshots and I even provided an example of that fact. That isn't me commenting on your screenshots, just stating the fact that screenshots are ridiculously easy to fake and they are. Now quick, ignore everything I've just typed and put more words in my mouth, since I know you will anyway.

    Lol, smile and lighten up some, you seem way too argumenitive. I hope you don't interact with people in person that way.

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    06-15-13 04:02 PM
  24. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    You always seem so angry when you post. I compared the SIII because it has the exact same specs as the Z10. I didn't realize you were going to equate the decision as a reflection of my courage. I disagree with your take on the market. I think performance and app selection will ultimately determine BlackBerry success or failure. I don't think jeopardizing your relationship with your brand new app developer base for the sake of having a 1080p display over a 720p display is wise. Obviously you feel they should. I'm happy to debate you but your going to have to be more mature and less emotional.

    Posted via CB10

    I normally wouldn't agree that much with the user Texazzpete, but the point is that 1080p will become a standard soon anyway for displays with 4,5 inches+.

    It will happen the moment when display manufacturers can offer them for more or less equal costs compared to what 720p displays cost now.

    This happens all the time in the tech industry.
    Easy examples would be full hd TV's. Practically no 720p panels are being produced as of now.

    We can also observe this with RAM and HDDs/SSDs.
    The cost per GB diminishes with time, so that one can get the double amount of RAM/HDD/SSD space for the same price in a very short period of time, compared to what it would have cost x amount of time before.

    Today I can get 256GB SSD space for the same price of 128GB, 2 years past.

    This list could continue endlessly and does not exclude smartphone displays.
    It means that display manufacturers will just stop to manufacturer, or make 720p displays equal in cost to 1080p displays.

    This has already been started with the current top of the line Androids.
    They are sold for the same price as their predecessors were introduced last year, but with the S4 octacore, literally doubles the specs.

    The move to 1080p has already happened and if BlackBerry wants to offer premium phones with a premium price tag, they will have to adapt these displays anyways for their bigger screened devices.

    Therefore, devs will have to code for this resolution anyway in a very forseeable future.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by MarsupilamiX; 06-15-13 at 04:39 PM.
    Saiga, bekkay and MasterOfBinary like this.
    06-15-13 04:19 PM
  25. Saiga's Avatar
    I normally wouldn't agree that much with the user Texazzpete, but the point is that 1080p will become a standard soon anyway for displays with 4,5 inches+.

    Posted via CB10
    Yep! I agree completely.

    Technology always moves forward. I remember a conversation I had years ago with my father. I was in the process of upgrading my PC and I went top of the line with the CPU and GPU. I spent nearly a months wages on those two components cause I wanted a super fast PC.

    My dad just laughed at me and said I'll never need that much power and that I was wasting my money. He tried pretty hard to convince me that PCs didn't need hardware like I was about to buy.

    Now, I can't remember the exact CPU, but the graphics card I bought was a super powerful model that had a unheard of 64mb of VRAM. Lol, yep that was more power than anyone will ever need. At the time, that was considered a waste, yet now it isn't enough.

    Right now 1080p might seem like a waste, but with enough time it will be come the standard. Just like when people used to say phones don't need 1gb of ram, or a dual core processor, or now a quad core processor. It wasn't long ago that all of those specs were considered a waste.

    BlackBerry will eventually have to adopt 1080p screens. They might as well do it now. What good is it to wait until even more apps have been made for the lower resolution screens?

    Typed on my Dev Alpha C, Posted Via CB10
    06-15-13 04:35 PM
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