[twstd.reality]

Oppo is on the high end (their flagship phablet is about 500USD),

OPPO Mobile Malaysia

then you have OnePlus (S5 specs for US$300)

OnePlus One review: a $300 smartphone has never looked so good

then you have xiaomi (quad core dual sim with 5 element lens 8mp camera for under US$150)
Mi Singapore


at the moment these are the phones taking asia by storm. the OnePlus should be launching in western markets soon. the hardware genuinely feels good and the UI is smooth. Most of the engineering team from these companies are ex lenovo, microsoft, google, and apple. The most notable one being xiaomi's global VP, hugo barra who was the top guy at google in charge of android

dude. real performance characterizations. not specs. those are useless numbers.

[Blomsternisse]

you do realise kitkat only needs 512mb of ram to run well right?

Well, KitKat might be better optimised for lower specifications, but you shouldn't forget that it wasn't until Ice Cream Sandwich that Android even had proper hardware acceleration for UI components (I don't count 3.x, as they were a quick hack). The fact that most Android applications also run through Dalvik, means that they tend to run slower (getting better with ART) and the garbage collector will also waste precious clock cycles.

The entire lifetime of Android have been a constant spec race, whether you like it or not. It's getting better, but one cannot deny how much more fluid iOS 7 and BlackBerry 10 runs on slower hardware (though one can question the huge memory requirements of BB10). Even Windows Phone 8 runs far better now days with natively compiled applications.

[lnichols]

Do you believe the average phone consumer cares if the phone has a 1080p vs. 720p screen or quad-core processes over a due-core? They don't, they just want the phone they purchased to work and work well (and not even that sometimes).

Posted via CB10

Yes I do believe that when it comes to a phone that isn't the iPhone, that when they look at the the price of two phones that are the same they look to see if it can run the apps they want, and then which one gives them more value for the buck. BlackBerry has been charging more for parts that should make the device less, and has been doing this for years. When they were the only smartphone in town, this was fine, but now that things like processor version, GPU , screen res, RAM, and Storage are listed out on the white product description cards at the stores, it does matter. Many may not fully understand what the numbers mean, but they know 1080 is better than 720, and Snapdragon 800 is better than 400.

Posted with a BlackBerry Z10

[afhstingray]

Show me phone for 170 pounds, which was released 1.5 year ago, which has the Kitkat and/or performs without any lag.

Frickin android lags with 1 gb ram on the kitkat, even 0.5 is enough.


Android needs at four cores to perform adequate. And bb10 has much nicer fluidity with two core.

Posted via CB10 on glorious Z10 powered by 10.2.1.3175

firstly, when the Z10 came out it wasnt 170 quid. it was almost the same price as high end androids at that time. and i suppose you've forgotten how truly awful the first release of BB10 was and 10.1 wasnt a huge improvement either.

until 10.2 which wasnt released until not that long ago. text messages not loading being the most obvious and truly unforgivable bug. No toast notifications....compare that to an even older phone, the galaxy s3 which was out in may 2012 vs z10 in january 2013 and you'll see what i mean. my particular s3 isnt even on kitkat, its on jelly bean and runs great. keep in mind these two devices were the same price when the z10 launched.

so i dont see the point of arguing about what 2 year old phone is better. its 2014, and in 2014 even entry level android devices like the ones i stated in my previous post wipe the floor with even the Z30. we'll have to see how much of an improvement the Passport is to compete in the current market when its available.

[afhstingray]

Well, KitKat might be better optimised for lower specifications, but you shouldn't forget that it wasn't until Ice Cream Sandwich that Android even had proper hardware acceleration for UI components (I don't count 3.x, as they were a quick hack). The fact that most Android applications also run through Dalvik, means that they tend to run slower (getting better with ART) and the garbage collector will also waste precious clock cycles.

The entire lifetime of Android have been a constant spec race, whether you like it or not. It's getting better, but one cannot deny how much more fluid iOS 7 and BlackBerry 10 runs on slower hardware (though one can question the huge memory requirements of BB10). Even Windows Phone 8 runs far better now days with natively compiled applications.

ICS was the first version where they made the UI consistent, before that it was a bit of a mess. Jelly bean ran very smoothly and kitkat is a slimmed down jelly bean, to put it simply. iOS and BB10 are written for the hardware available, so that is an advantage. but with the cheap availability of powerful components, and now with a slimmed down android, i think android is on par with iOS. BB10 on the other hand still has a couple of versions to go before it reaches the maturity of iOS and android.

I think the main advantage of android now is the fact even the low end devices now have the horsepower and battery life to run android smoothly at a price point far, far lower than bb10, windows phone, and iOS, and even come with nice-to-have extras like good camera, high res screen, etc. unless you happen to live in a country where contracts make the phone almost free (like the UK), this is a killer advantage.

dude. real performance characterizations. not specs. those are useless numbers.

so i assume you've tried those devices? seen how smoothly they run? or even felt how high quality the build on them are? I have and they're very impressive. I havent tried the OnePlus, ive tried the others, but i think as far as the oneplus goes i'd rather trust engadget's review than your guess....

Give me a break. My 2006 Panasonix Fx12 makes better photos than iphone. So stop that bull**** about superb phone cameras. They are OK for point and shoot and capture something, but nothing more.

Posted via CB10 on glorious Z10 powered by 10.2.1.3175

i dont think anyone is saying a phone cam is gona replace a DSLR or even a high end point and shoot like my Sony HX9V. But its reached a stage where low end compact point and shoots are going to be killed off by phone cams, unless you need optical zoom and xenon flash. BTW, the sony Z1 uses the same sensor sony uses for their compact point and shoot cameras.

[Supa_Fly1]

Z30, q10, 99, porsche design. Bb now needs more low-end devices to expand its market I believe

Posted via CB10

These are fof too costly to produce, low profit margins which are too sensitive to price fluctuations - the z3 is this type of product. Still not a smart move.

? BlackBerry Z30 ? If it Don't Make Dollars, It don't Make Sense ?

[z10Jobe]

1) if ur a teenage girl, then yes
2) McDonalds is cheap.
3) yes, sure. sd cardless iphone? the feel of the materials alone would make some folks plunk down the cash, not to mention some people are so tied into the app/itunes ecosystem its not even a choice. GTA3 on my Z10? erm, sorry no. You're forgetting that the Z30 and Z10 are pretty old pieces of kit by now.

I can possibly agree that some people are tied to the cult of the apple eco system.

Feel of the materials? Would that be the cracked glass screen on the $730 phone??

And I have no idea of what GTA3 is.

[afhstingray]

1) oh, im sorry, i didnt realise the Z10 had a shatterproof screen ever consider maybe the reason we see so many iphone broken screens and samsung galaxy broken screens is because they outship and outnumber BB10 devices by a rather massive margin?
2) Grand Theft Auto 3- was using it as an example of one of the many games available on android and iOS but not BB10

based on component leaks its looking pretty likely that apple will have the first phone with a all touch sapphire glass screen pretty soon. however i havent really had issues with gorilla glass on other devices before. The z10 dosent feel anywhere near as premium as a blackberry bold 9900, iphone, or htc m8. Hopefully the Passport and Classic feel good. They certainly look promising

[twstd.reality]

ICS was the first version where they made the UI consistent, before that it was a bit of a mess. Jelly bean ran very smoothly and kitkat is a slimmed down jelly bean, to put it simply. iOS and BB10 are written for the hardware available, so that is an advantage. but with the cheap availability of powerful components, and now with a slimmed down android, i think android is on par with iOS. BB10 on the other hand still has a couple of versions to go before it reaches the maturity of iOS and android.

I think the main advantage of android now is the fact even the low end devices now have the horsepower and battery life to run android smoothly at a price point far, far lower than bb10, windows phone, and iOS, and even come with nice-to-have extras like good camera, high res screen, etc. unless you happen to live in a country where contracts make the phone almost free (like the UK), this is a killer advantage.



so i assume you've tried those devices? seen how smoothly they run? or even felt how high quality the build on them are? I have and they're very impressive. I havent tried the OnePlus, ive tried the others, but i think as far as the oneplus goes i'd rather trust engadget's review than your guess....



i dont think anyone is saying a phone cam is gona replace a DSLR or even a high end point and shoot like my Sony HX9V. But its reached a stage where low end compact point and shoots are going to be killed off by phone cams, unless you need optical zoom and xenon flash. BTW, the sony Z1 uses the same sensor sony uses for their compact point and shoot cameras.

quit deflecting. show me some real data or shut your trap. direct one for one comparisons based on the actual hardware not opinion pieces pumped up by manufacturers' inflated numbers to push sales.

[afhstingray]

quit deflecting. show me some real data or shut your trap. direct one for one comparisons based on the actual hardware not opinion pieces pumped up by manufacturers' inflated numbers to push sales.

Lol, haven't you heard of Google and YouTube? Do a search and see for yourself. No need to get so butthurt. You didn't even say if you've tried those devices or not. Plenty of good reviews on those devices. Unless you think every review site out there is biased?

Making comments like that when you haven't even tried these devices is as bad as those BlackBerry haters who moan about BlackBerry being Crap when they haven't even tried BlackBerry 10.

[Joop Bos]

It is a match between fanboys and more realistic users. Love the Z10. But the S5 is a better phone. The Z10 is outdated. BlackBerry has to make a phone with killer specs with the same price as the S5. I wil buy one for sure.

Posted via CB10

[afhstingray]

It is a match between fanboys and more realistic users. Love the Z10. But the S5 is a better phone. The Z10 is outdated. BlackBerry has to make a phone with killer specs with the same price as the S5. I wil buy one for sure.

Posted via CB10

Mostly agree with you, love the gestures and the BB10 browser though. Hate the double tap iOS multitasking, and the long press android multitasking is quite annoying too.

[yessuz]

ICS was the first version where they made the UI consistent, before that it was a bit of a mess. Jelly bean ran very smoothly and kitkat is a slimmed down jelly bean, to put it simply. iOS and BB10 are written for the hardware available, so that is an advantage. but with the cheap availability of powerful components, and now with a slimmed down android, i think android is on par with iOS. BB10 on the other hand still has a couple of versions to go before it reaches the maturity of iOS and android.

I think the main advantage of android now is the fact even the low end devices now have the horsepower and battery life to run android smoothly at a price point far, far lower than bb10, windows phone, and iOS, and even come with nice-to-have extras like good camera, high res screen, etc. unless you happen to live in a country where contracts make the phone almost free (like the UK), this is a killer advantage.



so i assume you've tried those devices? seen how smoothly they run? or even felt how high quality the build on them are? I have and they're very impressive. I havent tried the OnePlus, ive tried the others, but i think as far as the oneplus goes i'd rather trust engadget's review than your guess....



i dont think anyone is saying a phone cam is gona replace a DSLR or even a high end point and shoot like my Sony HX9V. But its reached a stage where low end compact point and shoots are going to be killed off by phone cams, unless you need optical zoom and xenon flash. BTW, the sony Z1 uses the same sensor sony uses for their compact point and shoot cameras.

Smh
I talk about 8 year old simple point and shot compact camera.

Posted via CB10 on glorious Z10 powered by 10.2.1.3175

[afhstingray]

Smh
I talk about 8 year old simple point and shot compact camera.

Posted via CB10 on glorious Z10 powered by 10.2.1.3175

With the exception of low light shots, I have to disagree with you on that. I haven't personally used that camera but looking at the sample pictures on photographyblog and a couple of other review sites I think the iPhone easily matches and exceeds the quality.

[yessuz]

With the exception of low light shots, I have to disagree with you on that. I haven't personally used that camera but looking at the sample pictures on photographyblog and a couple of other review sites I think the iPhone easily matches and exceeds the quality.

Well, in that case - hands down. I cannot argue with blind people.

Posted via CB10 on glorious Z10 powered by 10.2.1.3175

[afhstingray]

Well, in that case - hands down. I cannot argue with blind people.

Posted via CB10 on glorious Z10 powered by 10.2.1.3175

Sadly for you, in this case the evidence pretty much proves who the blind one is here. And your statement in your previous post applied to all phones,not just iphone, unless it was a typo. The cameras on some of the lumias also exceed the quality of that camera. I hope you check out the Sony Z2 before dismissing phone cameras so easily, that guy actually has a modern point and shoot size sensor and optics. Let's not even start on the galaxy K- that guy has xenon flash and 10X optical zoom in a decent size chassis. Not super slim, but no bulges. Pretty much like 2 z10's put on top of each other

[scrannel]

FWIW, I'm in the film business, and at a meeting today it was: Writer (me) Z10; first producer: Q10; Second producer: OS 7 something Blackberry; Studio executive: iPhone; female star: Android. Her phone (and she) will get noticed.

[leehardballer12]

I loved the design n specifications of HTC One M8 and Xperia Z1/2. I have seen the performance of these phone in reality. Why can't BlackBerry come up with design n specifications same as these phones? In which case hefty price would not bother for a customer!!

With CB10 with lovely ?Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.3175

Are those even devices with high sales numbers? Goes to show that a company can make great phones but still not make a dent in the Apple/Samsung dominated market.

Posted via CB10

[afhstingray]

Are those even devices with high sales numbers? Goes to show that a company can make great phones but still not make a dent in the Apple/Samsung dominated market.

Posted via CB10

My vote goes to this comment as the best comment in this thread. Even though the Sony has a better camera and build quality, and the htc has great build quality the premium market's mindshare is dominated by samsung and apple, with apple currently on a downward trend now people are demanding larger screens.

The marketing guy who created thee whole galaxy branding has recently jumped ship to HTC, let's see if he can do interesting things.

[homer1475]

Apparently everyone forgets that any maker of android hardware has to do just that, produce hardware. Hence why we have super specced phones at the same price point as an iphone or BB(companies who have the cost of developing their software as well as their own hardware).

There is no cost of developing the software to run on their hardware(just fork it in and hope it works properly, or throw some more specs at it so it will run properly). Cost margins are way more for a company that does it all. A device from a company such as apple or BB will always cost more then the same specced device from samsung, htc, sony, etc, etc, etc(or any of those cheap knockoffs from china that you mention). They only have to produce and pay for the hardware your buying.

[afhstingray]

I think u fail to realise how much effort goes into adapting android for each device. It's not like windows for desktops where you just install it and add drivers. And how can you call those devices knockoffs? Shows how closed minded you are once the word china is mentioned. In fact those "knockoffs" have versions of android much more customised than Sony. It's samsung level of customisation. Building an os is a sunk cost. If BlackBerry can't make that investment without pricing themselves at uncompetitive levels,well RIP.

What Chen is doing is great. He knows they can't compete. So he's launching high end hardware with good margins and cutting costs. They will lose in the consumer market but when they have enough cash they will probably try to make a return. Great strategy, except fanboys will moan about how these new niche hardware are better than everything else out there yet idiots still buy android and iOS.

Bottom line is, consumers don't give a flying eff about what the company's costs are. They look at the product, and their wallet. And proceed to vote with their hard earned dollars in said wallet.

P.S. Even though apple and samsung co dominate, and apple even has to develop their own components, (samsung mobile buys them from another division at market price), apple still makes more margin....

[homer1475]

I think u fail to realise how much effort goes into adapting android for each device. It's not like windows for desktops where you just install it and add drivers. And how can you call those devices knockoffs? Shows how closed minded you are once the word china is mentioned. In fact those "knockoffs" have versions of android much more customised than Sony. It's samsung level of customisation. Building an os is a sunk cost. If BlackBerry can't make that investment without pricing themselves at uncompetitive levels,well RIP.

What Chen is doing is great. He knows they can't compete. So he's launching high end hardware with good margins and cutting costs. They will lose in the consumer market but when they have enough cash they will probably try to make a return. Great strategy, except fanboys will moan about how these new niche hardware are better than everything else out there yet idiots still buy android and iOS.

Bottom line is, consumers don't give a flying eff about what the company's costs are. They look at the product, and their wallet. And proceed to vote with their hard earned dollars in said wallet.

P.S. Even though apple and samsung co dominate, and apple even has to develop their own components, (samsung mobile buys them from another division at market price), apple still makes more margin....

Arguing with you is pointless, your so close minded to what happens behind the scenes. Just go buy your sony, htc, etc, that all run android and be happy with your hardware purchase. Have a nice day.

[afhstingray]

Arguing with you is pointless, your so close minded to what happens behind the scenes. Just go buy your sony, htc, etc, that all run android and be happy with your purchase. Have a nice day.

Pointless because it dosent agree with you opinion? That's pretty much what closed minded is.

I happen to be close to one of the top guys who was at Sony Ericsson mobile communications in the London office who reported directly to the CEO. Now he's at samsung mobile. I know what goes on behind the scenes. BlackBerry used to give me prototype unannounced devices and flew me to orlando for the launch of BlackBerry 10, and I was one of the few who got a dev alpha with the full internal os with phone call ability and hub. Mozilla sent me samples of their Firefox phone. I think I am fairly well informed when it comes to the platforms out there and insider knowledge about the engineering process and troubles

My analysis of the market is that trouble is brewing. Those "knockoffs" you mentioned are a market spoiler with disruptive potential.

[homer1475]

Pointless because it dosent agree with you opinion? That's pretty much what closed minded is.

I happen to be close to one of the top guys who was at Sony Ericsson mobile communications in the London office who reported directly to the CEO. Now he's at samsung mobile. I know what goes on behind the scenes. BlackBerry used to give me prototype unreleased devices and flew me to orlando for the launch of BlackBerry 10, and I was one of the few who got a dev alpha with the full internal os with phone call ability and hub. Mozilla sent me samples of their Firefox phone. I think I am fairly well informed when it comes to the platforms out there and insider knowledge about the engineering process and troubles

Pointless because you just keep repeating the same drivel post after post.
I could care less what you claim to know and who you know. I could claim I'm the CEO of mcdonalds and you wouldn't know the difference. Welcome to arguing on the internet.

[afhstingray]

Pointless because you just keep repeating the same drivel post after post.
I could care less what you claim to know and who you know. I could claim I'm the CEO of mcdonalds and you wouldn't know the difference. Welcome to arguing on the internet.

Oh- except I've posted pictures on various threads here which prove things. You're free to check through my post history-Instead of 'spouting drivel' like how you claim to know why BlackBerry's costs are higher.

But back to the point-ur post didn't make an ounce of sense. No consumer gives a crap why your devices are priced high. Have you seen how expensive tiffany's silver jewellery is? It's a commodity priced way above commodity price level. The reason why tiffany's sells is the same reason why apple sells. Clearly the consumer sees value has been added. If you're suggesting BlackBerry is in the same boat because they develop their own OS, well... at the moment it's like trying to buy silver earrings at your local discount store.