[brianatbb]

what people fail to realize is that the z10 was supposed to come out.. last year.. then last sept... delayed twice... which if it was launch when it was supposed to it would have been leading the field... it is comparable to what is out there now.. but bb is launching 6 phones this year.. who knows what the specs will be on those other 4..

And that's the issue. Why do we not even know if the specs will be better? Apart from some rumors about the Aristo (larger, faster), we know nothing about the others excepting the Q10, which is just the Z10's keyboard sister. We do, however, have some idea what Samsung, HTC, Huawei, etc., will be pumping out over the next few months.

[brianatbb]

The Playbook has had that 30 day limitation since 2.0, over a year. I'm really surprised that they carried it thru into bb10. The thing that bothered me on PB was not having access to my yahoo file content which was older than 30 days. Which was virtually all of my file content. It was a big fail in PB. I fixed it by buying an iPad 4. No I'm not a troll, I just like my things to work properly.

Yes, this astounds me too. I never dreamt BB would repeat that stunning mistake with the Z10. But they have? Definitely a dealbreaker for me. I'm not going to go online to look up my past emails on shaw.ca, live.com and gmail.com, and shouldn't be expected to when the competition will let me see all my emails together going back well over a year.

[NYPDinformant]

Lol, you may have good points somewhere in that wall of text, but I'll wait for the movie...

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

Perhaps twitter would be a more appropriate avenue for reading impaired individuals such as yourself and not a discussion forum?

LOL, what a stupid comment.

[DuexNoir]

Apple�s closed system brings a safety net that ensures that apps work, and means you can easily move from one device to another with your content following you.

I have absolutely no problems with Bluetooth connection on my Z10. I listen to music in my car via BT to my Z10 to and from work each day. You're the first I hear to get drop calls on the Z10. Most likely it's an issue with your carrier and not the device. I also have no problems with Link; I find it works very quickly and efficiently to transfer all my files and music to my Z10.

About the keyboard, I'm one of those BB physical keyboard users who took a chance and bought the Z10 with its all-touch keyboard, and I must say that I absolutely love it!! I can never emphasize that enough. I type on it just as fast as on my physical keyboard, most of the time I don't even bother looking at the keyboard itself as any typos I make are more often than not get accurately corrected by the autocorrect and predictive features.

But the one thing I want to point out why I'm not using Apple...is exactly what I quoted from your post. Apple is a closed system, a closed wall, a closed garden. It is closed. As a technological device that I paid a premium price for, I prefer to have the freedom and flexibility to dictate what I want from the device and have the degree to modify it to suit my own needs. I do not want to have to change my needs to suit the device. It's a device that should work for me, and not the other way around.

[AAG64]

I have absolutely no problems with Bluetooth connection on my Z10. I listen to music in my car via BT to my Z10 to and from work each day. You're the first I hear to get drop calls on the Z10. Most likely it's an issue with your carrier and not the device. I also have no problems with Link; I find it works very quickly and efficiently to transfer all my files and music to my Z10.

About the keyboard, I'm one of those BB physical keyboard users who took a chance and bought the Z10 with its all-touch keyboard, and I must say that I absolutely love it!! I can never emphasize that enough. I type on it just as fast as on my physical keyboard, most of the time I don't even bother looking at the keyboard itself as any typos I make are more often than not get accurately corrected by the autocorrect and predictive features.

But the one thing I want to point out why I'm not using Apple...is exactly what I quoted from your post. Apple is a closed system, a closed wall, a closed garden. It is closed. As a technological device that I paid a premium price for, I prefer to have the freedom and flexibility to dictate what I want from the device and have the degree to modify it to suit my own needs. I do not want to have to change my needs to suit the device. It's a device that should work for me, and not the other way around.

I hear so many people who say how much they hate Apple's closed system. But why? I am not trying to be confrontational, just really want to understand. Does being within Apple's garden result in less choice, is more expensive or has obvious downsides? I get more choice of content than anywhere else, there is far less likelihood of ending up with malware or advertisements disguised as content, can use the same content on multiple devices, share content between them and pay a reasonable price compared to other stores. If you really want to tweak things even more, you can jailbreak. What is the advantage of being outside such a place? The PlayBook is a superior device to iPad in terms of design, engineering, UI, etc (arguably). But that is not enough otherwise it would have done much better. What I addressed in my original post (overall experience) is more important to more people than those who 'hate' Apple... and if Blackberry is to stop shrinking, it needs to figure this out. I will stop before the brevity police arrest me.

[Dlanod]

Another War and Peace length troll post. They all have the same script, written by newbie accounts, cover the same tired points, possibly generated by a bot. Hey, OP, watch out for the big Billy Goat Gruff, the one that butts you off the bridge.

So this forum is for BlackBerry fanboys only? The OPs view were mine precisely and why my Z10 went back to the retailer. Given how long it took this device to appear I seriously doubt BlackBerry's ability to complete their half finished OS and attract the big name apps.

I hope I'm wrong but in 18 months, at best I suspect they will be a software division of one of the current big names. And Alicia Keys can go back to using her iPhone that she clearly prefers.

[sydsam]

You should get some up to date experience with an iPhone in regards to attachments and other things. Calling the iPhone the worst media player is off the charts crazy. You sir seem like the fanboy.

Z10 looks great, but please be reasonable.

How is the experience different? Is there a file management on the iPhone, can it open the document, edit, reattach the edited version to the reply? Without landing on home screen? Theoretically after you spend a couple of days on iPhone forums, and downloaded tens of apps that together can provide the functionality that should have been baked into the system, in the first place. It's funny how this can be considered "Convenient ". So no Sir, I don't need more up to date information. In my opinion you can't fix a broken os, can plaster the **** out of it,but that would be it.
Sorry but iTunes is at least in top 5 of the most annoying programs made for windows, might be different for Mac. And yes it only recognizes a hand full of formats, both for video and audio. And yes it has a fecked up way of categorising things, that leaves the user with 10 albums with 1 song in each when it should have been 1 with 10. Again might be different if you get all of your content from iTunes. But who in the world does that?

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[sydsam]

I hear so many people who say how much they hate Apple's closed system. But why? I am not trying to be confrontational, just really want to understand. Does being within Apple's garden result in less choice, is more expensive or has obvious downsides? I get more choice of content than anywhere else, there is far less likelihood of ending up with malware or advertisements disguised as content, can use the same content on multiple devices, share content between them and pay a reasonable price compared to other stores. If you really want to tweak things even more, you can jailbreak. What is the advantage of being outside such a place? The PlayBook is a superior device to iPad in terms of design, engineering, UI, etc (arguably). But that is not enough otherwise it would have done much better. What I addressed in my original post (overall experience) is more important to more people than those who 'hate' Apple... and if Blackberry is to stop shrinking, it needs to figure this out. I will stop before the brevity police arrest me.

Yes there is an advantage of being outside the closed garden of Apple ecosystem, it's called freedom of choice. My main beef with apple is that it dictates how users interact with technology not the other way round. And I find that using apple products is counterintuitive, hence the whole "think different" thing. And even that is wrong grammaticaly. It's all so nonconformist and juvenile, that at some moments I caught myself thinking, what is the point of doing this particular function this way besides the desire to differentiate from the rest, is there any functionality behind it? I think that no there isn't. But maybe someone can enlighten me.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[sydsam]

So this forum is for BlackBerry fanboys only? The OPs view were mine precisely and why my Z10 went back to the retailer. Given how long it took this device to appear I seriously doubt BlackBerry's ability to complete their half finished OS and attract the big name apps.

I hope I'm wrong but in 18 months, at best I suspect they will be a software division of one of the current big names. And Alicia Keys can go back to using her iPhone that she clearly prefers.

I fear in 24 months apple products won't be sold outside of california.


Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[Skeevecr]

You seem to have totally skipped over the wireless wifi file share part which requires neither a wire nor desktop software! Amazing!

Both devices have wireless options so I deemed it unnecessary to mention them as they were about equal.

[Ealing53]

So this forum is for BlackBerry fanboys only? The OPs view were mine precisely and why my Z10 went back to the retailer. Given how long it took this device to appear I seriously doubt BlackBerry's ability to complete their half finished OS and attract the big name apps.

I hope I'm wrong but in 18 months, at best I suspect they will be a software division of one of the current big names. And Alicia Keys can go back to using her iPhone that she clearly prefers.

I was very surprised at how, having significantly delayed the launch of BB10, it all still seemed undercooked. Why was the Q10 not immediately ready? Why was the Z10 not ready for the US, one of its major markets? Why nothing about the PlayBook when everyone goes on about "ecosystems " these days? Why were the big name apps not available? Was appointing Alicia Keys and renaming themselves really big news?

I am no Apple fan (it looks creaky now) and Android is just total chaos in mobile OS form (how many versions are there out there exactly), so had very high hopes for BlackBerry but that will diminish as time goes by. Let's hope BlackBerry can keep the momentum going and respond to customer feedback in a positive way.

[Skeevecr]

You should get some up to date experience with an iPhone in regards to attachments and other things. Calling the iPhone the worst media player is off the charts crazy. You sir seem like the fanboy.

He said itunes not iphone, crucial difference as the former is utterly dire.

[tack]

How is the experience different? Is there a file management on the iPhone, can it open the document, edit, reattach the edited version to the reply? Without landing on home screen? Theoretically after you spend a couple of days on iPhone forums, and downloaded tens of apps that together can provide the functionality that should have been baked into the system, in the first place. It's funny how this can be considered "Convenient ". So no Sir, I don't need more up to date information. In my opinion you can't fix a broken os, can plaster the **** out of it,but that would be it.
Sorry but iTunes is at least in top 5 of the most annoying programs made for windows, might be different for Mac. And yes it only recognizes a hand full of formats, both for video and audio. And yes it has a fecked up way of categorising things, that leaves the user with 10 albums with 1 song in each when it should have been 1 with 10. Again might be different if you get all of your content from iTunes. But who in the world does that?

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

I did not say file management, but media player. I use Sugarsync for all my files and could care less about files in the phone. As a media player, I find it the best by a long shot.

In regards to iTunes, version 11 is quite good and lower my performance complaints to nothing. If you have not tried the rewrite, don't comment because your info is out of date. It is like comparing BB7 to BB10, which lost of you would say was unfair.

[Desktoper]

So this forum is for BlackBerry fanboys only? The OPs view were mine precisely and why my Z10 went back to the retailer. Given how long it took this device to appear I seriously doubt BlackBerry's ability to complete their half finished OS and attract the big name apps.

I hope I'm wrong but in 18 months, at best I suspect they will be a software division of one of the current big names. And Alicia Keys can go back to using her iPhone that she clearly prefers.

Somehow, you don't sound very convincing ("I hope I'm wrong..." having also opined "I seriously doubt...") and how do you know if Alicia Keys isn't using her Z10 for documenting a tour (like she said in her keynote interview) and saving her iPhone for tweeting only? I don't know that and neither do you, so what's with all the "....that she clearly prefers" stuff? Big assumptions there. And obviously, no, the forum isn't for BB fanboys only, it's also loaded with Android and Apple fanboys trolling the waters, too. Right?

[sydsam]

You should get some up to date experience with an iPhone in regards to attachments and other things. Calling the iPhone the worst media player is off the charts crazy. You sir seem like the fanboy.

Z10 looks great, but please be reasonable.

This is what you said. And the other sentence is not relevant as it is referring to something I haven't said. Stop twisting other peoples words. It's lame

[melb_me]

I took my media card out of my 9900 and put it in my z10 and all my songs and videos were all there and organized kinda like hitting the easy button

Posted via CB10

[Ingo77]

Ok, what about the chinese sweatshop. One sole reason why for the life of me, I would never buy apple, no matter how good it is.

[Canuck671]

I pick up my phone. I talk. I browse through my emails, tweets, linkedin, texts, BBM, without leaving my in box. I share what I need to, I send reminders to myself using remind me. This also works without any input from me to my evernote account. My calendar keeps me up to date on what is going on during my day, again without having to leave my in box. For me this phone is the best PA that I have ever had. I am not saying that there are some soft spots, the camera is a bit to get used to, probably because I don't really use it very much. I am looking for my RBC app. And my GWL. App. They are coming. I use my daughters iPhone too. Mostly for Netflix. She likes games. Me, not working much. I love the BB Balance. I find that I am a bit disappointed with the bridge as I was always working in sync with my PlayBook. I am sure there are technical issues with this. I hope that this is resolved soon. I'm impressed with the new app world. More and more stuff everyday. I Use a few applications daily and have all of them already. Be that as it may, I am always looking for better ways of being productive. I am finding new ways of doing things on my Z10 every day. I encourage everyone to explore the new frontier that is the Z10. Post script : the keyboard is amazing. I am coming up over from a 9800. The more I use it, the easier and faster I become.

Ok that's it for now.

Cheers

[yyzberry]

So this forum is for BlackBerry fanboys only? The OPs view were mine precisely and why my Z10 went back to the retailer. Given how long it took this device to appear I seriously doubt BlackBerry's ability to complete their half finished OS and attract the big name apps.

I hope I'm wrong but in 18 months, at best I suspect they will be a software division of one of the current big names. And Alicia Keys can go back to using her iPhone that she clearly prefers.

I'm with you on that. They failed. The idea was to make a better Blackberry than OS7. Instead they just made an inferior and gimmicky iOS.

Nice try Thor but you failed. Hope oh still have those I-Bankers working on finding you a buyer.

[qbnkelt]

Another War and Peace length troll post. They all have the same script, written by newbie accounts, cover the same tired points, possibly generated by a bot. Hey, OP, watch out for the big Billy Goat Gruff, the one that butts you off the bridge.

at just 40 posts yourself, I would caution against casting aspersions against newbies or throwing around the word troll with such gleeful abandon.....

[Desktoper]

at just 40 posts yourself, I would caution against casting aspersions against newbies or throwing around the word troll with such gleeful abandon.....

Caution noted. I shouldn't have singled out the number of posts as indicative. However, your own signature relates to the situation I referenced, very nicely: "Isn't it amusing how people who claim to not enjoy CB at all simply can't stay away????" Actually, I'm better with salsa than with ketchup.

[qbnkelt]

Caution noted. I shouldn't have singled out the number of posts as indicative. However, your own signature relates to the situation I referenced, very nicely: "Isn't it amusing how people who claim to not enjoy CB at all simply can't stay away????" Actually, I'm better with salsa than with ketchup.

Noted.....I shall pick up some salsa and have it at hand just in case I need a snack and you are handy.....

And my signature refers to people who malign CB, have temper tantrums, threaten to go away, leave for a couple of months, yet invariably return.

[uniquest]

Your post is factually ignorant and misleading. I'm no Apple fan boy but your comments against iTunes go against hundreds of millions of very satisfied users. Iphone as a "read only email device", give me a freaking break. While I wait for the Q10 to launch I'm using an Iphone 5 and a Nexus phone. Today I used my iPhone to reply to a long list of emails, whether thumb typing with both hands or one hand it's NO PROBLEM and easily as fast as my Bold 9900. The new Nexus 4’s keyboard is even better than the iPhone. Why do you rant and spread false statements like that? This hate and extreme ignorance towards fans of Apple products and their devices is pathetic. Why can't people just chat, discuss and RESPECT other people opinions?

[DuexNoir]

I hear so many people who say how much they hate Apple's closed system. But why? I am not trying to be confrontational, just really want to understand. Does being within Apple's garden result in less choice, is more expensive or has obvious downsides? I get more choice of content than anywhere else, there is far less likelihood of ending up with malware or advertisements disguised as content, can use the same content on multiple devices, share content between them and pay a reasonable price compared to other stores. If you really want to tweak things even more, you can jailbreak. What is the advantage of being outside such a place? The PlayBook is a superior device to iPad in terms of design, engineering, UI, etc (arguably). But that is not enough otherwise it would have done much better. What I addressed in my original post (overall experience) is more important to more people than those who 'hate' Apple... and if Blackberry is to stop shrinking, it needs to figure this out. I will stop before the brevity police arrest me.

More expensive is an obvious point. I know plenty of people who use Apple products and they need adaptors to almost every external device we use at work, and each adaptor is an additional cost. Apple products themselves are more expensive than other competitors who offer equally as good of a device (just lacks the "prestige" of the brand name). For those who have used previous versions of Apple mobile devices, they can't use adaptors they invested in the new Apple products because of different pin ports. Additional cost there.

As for same content sharing on multiple devices, that can only be done between Apple products (as far as I'm aware of). So you are basically imprisoned to buy only Apple products if you want to use that feature (even if another competitor product may be cheaper and works just as well). Apple just limited your choice. On another note, I can share content between my BB devices and my Windows PC and my Sony Walkman. So what's the problem here? It may not be automatically sent from my phone to my PC when I take a picture, for example, but the choice is still available to me - I only need to take a different route to do so.

I've used Windows since my younger teen days to now and I have never once...yes, never once...got my computer or laptop shut down due to malware or virus. I've used BB for a good number of years and again never had a problem with malware or viruses. I can't speak for Android as I have never used that system. In the end, it all comes down to user common sense and careful usage of your devices.

As for contents such as apps, that is subjective and depends on user needs...or more likely, wants. I will not cry for more apps simply because everyone around me are crying for more apps. I am flexible when it comes to content choice. I would rather sacrifice a bit of that than limit my freedom in other areas.

The common user most often do not jailbreak their phones (many probably don't even know what that means). Moreover, if the device offers the user flexibility in the first place, there would not be a need to jailbreak. Your argument here is very much like the argument with sideloading apps on BB. If you say jailbreak gives you freedom on iPhones, then I can say that sideloading gives me more apps content than your Apple ecosystem. However, like many have counter-argued, if BB has all the apps available in BB World, there would not be a need for sideloading. So if you can make your argument for jailbreak, then BB users have the same right to make their argument for sideloading apps.

If the iOS is as wonderful as you claim it to be with all its "security" within its walled garden, then why do so many more users prefer Android (the epitome of a free OS) over iOS?

Why do so many people seek to explore the unexplored with all its danger when staying in a well-gardened home is much more secure? Freedom is not without its dangers but the reward and new discovery may be worth all the risk.

My answer above is my own opinion and perception based on what I like or dislike and what I need or do not need. As any argument there are biases interwoven, so take it for what it is...simply an argument based on my own perception. You are free to agree, disagree, or civilly argue back.

I am very curious myself what makes Apple so great? Aside from apps, which seems to be a main argument, what other features are there that makes Apple supposedly superior? What features are there that Apple can do that no other device out there can or have? I honestly would like to know (and I have no intention of dissing anyone's opinion or their personal likes).

(Sorry for the wall of text...): )

[AAG64]

More expensive is an obvious point. I know plenty of people who use Apple products and they need adaptors to almost every external device we use at work, and each adaptor is an additional cost. Apple products themselves are more expensive than other competitors who offer equally as good of a device (just lacks the "prestige" of the brand name). For those who have used previous versions of Apple mobile devices, they can't use adaptors they invested in the new Apple products because of different pin ports. Additional cost there.

As for same content sharing on multiple devices, that can only be done between Apple products (as far as I'm aware of). So you are basically imprisoned to buy only Apple products if you want to use that feature (even if another competitor product may be cheaper and works just as well). Apple just limited your choice. On another note, I can share content between my BB devices and my Windows PC and my Sony Walkman. So what's the problem here? It may not be automatically sent from my phone to my PC when I take a picture, for example, but the choice is still available to me - I only need to take a different route to do so.

I've used Windows since my younger teen days to now and I have never once...yes, never once...got my computer or laptop shut down due to malware or virus. I've used BB for a good number of years and again never had a problem with malware or viruses. I can't speak for Android as I have never used that system. In the end, it all comes down to user common sense and careful usage of your devices.

As for contents such as apps, that is subjective and depends on user needs...or more likely, wants. I will not cry for more apps simply because everyone around me are crying for more apps. I am flexible when it comes to content choice. I would rather sacrifice a bit of that than limit my freedom in other areas.

The common user most often do not jailbreak their phones (many probably don't even know what that means). Moreover, if the device offers the user flexibility in the first place, there would not be a need to jailbreak. Your argument here is very much like the argument with sideloading apps on BB. If you say jailbreak gives you freedom on iPhones, then I can say that sideloading gives me more apps content than your Apple ecosystem. However, like many have counter-argued, if BB has all the apps available in BB World, there would not be a need for sideloading. So if you can make your argument for jailbreak, then BB users have the same right to make their argument for sideloading apps.

If the iOS is as wonderful as you claim it to be with all its "security" within its walled garden, then why do so many more users prefer Android (the epitome of a free OS) over iOS?

Why do so many people seek to explore the unexplored with all its danger when staying in a well-gardened home is much more secure? Freedom is not without its dangers but the reward and new discovery may be worth all the risk.

My answer above is my own opinion and perception based on what I like or dislike and what I need or do not need. As any argument there are biases interwoven, so take it for what it is...simply an argument based on my own perception. You are free to agree, disagree, or civilly argue back.

I am very curious myself what makes Apple so great? Aside from apps, which seems to be a main argument, what other features are there that makes Apple supposedly superior? What features are there that Apple can do that no other device out there can or have? I honestly would like to know (and I have no intention of dissing anyone's opinion or their personal likes).

(Sorry for the wall of text...): )

Thank you for your reply. Apple makes expensive gear. No argument there. But quality costs money. The Z10 is a quality product and is more expensive than previous models (although I can get either device with a contract at almost the same price). Samsungs top end phones are not cheap either.
I won't argue with your comments regarding jailbreaking. I agree with you. I was just making the point if you did want to bother with tweaks, then you could do so. I don't bother.
I would argue however, that far from restricting choice, Apple's ecosystem is the richest in terms of choice. It is hardly a prison. How is being on the Z10 giving me more freedom when you need apps made for that platform just as you do with iOS? And the choice is so limited?
Android is cheaper which is why it has captured a large market share. And companies such as Samsung and HTC have made good devices. But do you question Apple's influence in driving innovation across the board? Would Samsung be making the great smart phones it is making today had Apple not made the iPhone? Indeed would the Z10 (or PlayBook) exist had it not been for Apple? Apple didn't invent the first MP3 or mobile phone, or laptop. But it has taken established product categories and did such a good job at making them a great experience inside a quality product that it stole the dominant position from Sony Nokia and others. Microsoft made a tablet long time before Apple made the iPad but failed to make it work like Apple did. Microsoft laughed at the iPhone when it came out. Where are Microsoft's phones today?
Apple does have strong controls on what it allows on its devices. To some that is objectionable... But that keeps viruses, bad apps and rubbish out. I know you say you never had a virus once. Well, you are very lucky or very careful. I was a Windows user (and still am) and had an Android phone for 9 months and I know what a pain it is to keep things clean and the time wasted as you scan, update and scan.
Apple products are not fault free. Over the years, I had reason to go to Apple with an iPhone that was not working as it should and two laptops with graphic card problems. But you know what, in all cases, they handed me a new replacement iPhone/laptops without any questions. All months after I bought the product and all without having additional AppleCare warranty. Where else do you get that level of customer service? Clearly I am an Apple fan but I have and will continue to try and explore other products and platforms... Which is why I bought the Z10.
Thanks for the discussion... It is refreshing to have a civil exchange on a board.