04-16-13 09:29 AM
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  1. anon(153966)'s Avatar
    Some people go to such great lengths.
    grover5 likes this.
    04-13-13 04:58 PM
  2. ihys's Avatar
    Nor mine. I did a lot of research on the phone before I purchased the Z10 so I knew exactly what I was gaining and losing moving from OS7 to OS10.

    I think a lot of people are upset that they didn't do research into the phone features, or lack of features. Like so many in our society, we like to blame someone else. Society in general is getting to the point that if we don't get instant gratification from an item, then it must be a POS. Not to many people post about their patience with devices in our life because the devices are so much a part of what we are and what we do.

    Everybody take a chill pill and go hug someone close to you. You will find it is much more rewarding :-)


    Posted Via CB10 on my Zed10
    Umm I did my homework prior to purchasing this phone. This was before the phone came out so all i got to see were ppl raving about the phone. They didnt actually try to use it in a real world setting. So i purchased the phone off that premise. Now after having said phone, im finding some lack of features which i thought would have came standard, but thats not the case. Even now im still learning about features or even lack of features which my homework didnt prepare me for.

    I dont know how you can tell ppl to do their homework or the fact anyone can tell. Like how are ppl suppose to know what apps are on the blackberry world ? we cant play with the phone for a couple hours at the kiosk and search all the apps we want and be like |yep its got this app, aww it doesnt have that app, lets do another search oh no app for that either" thats kind of ridiculous. We cant know which company will provide apps unless they have stated. majority of the homework we can do is see the specs and watch videos of ppl playing with the phone.

    Now that the phone is out we can guage real persons daily use on these forums which is very useful.

    For example my homework didnt tell me, you cant copy text numbers, but you can copy phone numbers from the hub. I didnt know i was gonna lose playbook functionality with bridge. for some reason i cant take of facebook contacts from my contacts list no matter how many times i turn it off. And now im also getting duplicate contacts, didnt have that problem before.

    Now after having said all that i still love this phone, but im not going to pretend and act like its the perfect phone. I'm going to be a realistic about it and know that it is what it is
    04-13-13 05:00 PM
  3. wentouch's Avatar
    Ah, that's where all my "Notes" went. Into the Reminder. Nice.

    Can anyone tell me what the difference between the two are, aside from the latter being able to be synched online. It looks exactly the same to me and, as another mentioned, it also includes my exact, prior notes, thank god, as Notes is basically my organizer.
    04-13-13 05:00 PM
  4. herculesinwyoming's Avatar
    Another first post troll starts a 4 page thread. It was the same silly stuff when playbook came out
    04-13-13 05:11 PM
  5. jdhooghe's Avatar
    Umm I did my homework prior to purchasing this phone. This was before the phone came out so all i got to see were ppl raving about the phone. They didnt actually try to use it in a real world setting. So i purchased the phone off that premise. Now after having said phone, im finding some lack of features which i thought would have came standard, but thats not the case. Even now im still learning about features or even lack of features which my homework didnt prepare me for.

    Did you not look at those features when you played with the phone?

    I dont know how you can tell ppl to do their homework or the fact anyone can tell. Like how are ppl suppose to know what apps are on the blackberry world ?

    http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/?
    we cant play with the phone for a couple hours at the kiosk and search all the apps we want and be like |yep its got this app, aww it doesnt have that app, lets do another search oh no app for that either" thats kind of ridiculous. We cant know which company will provide apps unless they have stated. majority of the homework we can do is see the specs and watch videos of ppl playing with the phone.

    Now that the phone is out we can guage real persons daily use on these forums which is very useful.

    For example my homework didnt tell me, you cant copy text numbers, but you can copy phone numbers from the hub. I didnt know i was gonna lose playbook functionality with bridge. for some reason i cant take of facebook contacts from my contacts list no matter how many times i turn it off. And now im also getting duplicate contacts, didnt have that problem before.
    Are you using GMail?
    Now after having said all that i still love this phone, but im not going to pretend and act like its the perfect phone. I'm going to be a realistic about it and know that it is what it is
    04-13-13 05:11 PM
  6. ihys's Avatar
    I went to 5 different places to look at the phone. and of those 5, one had an actual live version the rest were dummy phones, or those demo ones. The one that had a live version there was a rep with it and had other ppl waiting to try it out. So yes i did try it out. When ppl try out the phone they arent looking at anything in particular cause they dont know it. I basically tried the swipes tried the hub the browsing. Are you telling me i should have had a list of things i wanted to try out to make sure the phone could do em? like i should have known that i was suppose to try and copy the text number and see if it would?

    Me trying to copy a text number and send it to someone else was found by accident. That was probably after a week after i had the phone. Was i suppose to try out every little thing at the live demo? come on man. Maybe if i spent hours on the live demo and kept going back there everyday i would have been like oh i guess it cant do that.

    The only real way you get to do homework with a phone is when you actually have it and use it everyday. Spending 20 minutes isnt gonna give you the whole story buddy. And im pretty sure the majority of ppl arent gonna spend hours trying to find every little thing at the kiosk. maybe you did? thats why you knew what you were getting?

    No gmail just one hotmail and one facebook linked thats its. To be frank my phone is barebones right now only app i have is the cb app, and honestly all those ppl who say you dont need an app, browser is good enough. I'd tell them to go look at the cb app and you will say otherwise. oh i also have the tap to run game. since i had that on my playbook.

    edit: im kind of hesitant to just dl any app, because ppl were saying some apps were a drain on battery. I did dl the blackberry travel but then everyone said it drains batter quick so i removed it the same day.
    04-13-13 05:35 PM
  7. Donvald's Avatar
    The op is the sort of information that is often wanted by those who scorn others who have problems with this device. But the op is clear and detailed. It somehow that's not enough. Why am I not surprised .

    There are not many blackberry forums of note out there, this is the main one which shows up on most searches and where blackberry users will gravitate to both for real life information and usage experiences and also for support. It should be no surprise then, that newbies like myself will come here to express a point, be that a problem with a purchase or to feedback to others.

    Many here have blinkers on the size of Venetian blinds and cannot see how fanboy praise both misleads prospective buyers of blackberries and then obscures real world faults with excuses. It creates first confusion then disappointment finally creating a dislike. By representing blackberry as passionately as many here do, this impacts upon the brand itself at least for those that visit this site.

    Will any of what i wrote change anything here? No. Just in a general level, arrogance tends to be a common trait shown in these forums.
    04-13-13 07:08 PM
  8. pels_17's Avatar
    I can suggest of a note app, the Note Pad app. Simple interface but works perfectly like the iOS notes app.

    Posted via CB10
    R Field likes this.
    04-13-13 07:24 PM
  9. drewread's Avatar
    I really don't get this type of response. This is not version #1 and this is not phone #1.

    Blackberry has been in existence since 1999 (ie. 14 years) and has evolved through those years to what we see today. iPhone arrived in 2007 and has evolved since that time as well.

    Like the OP, I was expecting BBRY to build from the previous BB experience -- sure with a brand new OS, but build nonetheless. The OPs frustrations mirror mine. We just want what we loved about BB PLUS all the great things that BB10 was promised to deliver. That shouldn't be seen as an attack of BB10 or BBRY but as a plea for BBRY to figure this out.
    Actually it is v1.0 of a brand new OS and this is phone #1 on that OS.

    BB10 has absolutely nothing to do with any of the previous BBOS devices, and that has been mentioned endlessly in the media since the new OS was to be called BBX.

    If you were expecting BlackBerry to be building from the previous devices, then sadly you must have completely isolated yourself from the media for quite some time.

    BlackBerry is not trying to sell the Z10 to the 7,000,000 people that are using legacy devices.. they already sold you a phone... They made this phone to win back the defectors, and to gain new customers. You can tell by the diminishing numbers that the old devices were not going to work long term and that they needed a new plan. If they manage to land some legacy customers on the new platform early on, then that is a bonus.. the rest can come when the early adopter phase is over and they have had some time to beef up the feature set.

    Do I hope that some of these 'legacy' features will be added to the new OS eventually, yes I certainly do. Do I expect it to all happen within one year, nope.. it too them 14 years to get some of them into the old OS, so I expect it will take some time for them to get into this one as well.

    Am I willing to wait, yes... why... because this z10 trashes the power and functionality of the old devices in the core features that is use. It may not for you, so either go back to your BBOS device.. Or move on to something else that does (and good luck with that) so that you are happy, nobody will blame you for that.

    I find it funny that most of the complaints are always from legacy BlackBerry customers, very few from other OSes seem to be ranting away...



    Yeah.. from the ZED on CB10
    04-13-13 07:25 PM
  10. CBCListener's Avatar
    You said that there is no notes. Use the remember feature.
    That's the biggest thing I can see with the OP's protests. Really didn't make an effort to learn about the device and OS. There are some shortcomings, sure, but as noted elsewhere this is V 1, and other freshly released devices, notably the OP's beloved iPhone, were hot messes.

    Meh.
    R Field likes this.
    04-13-13 08:25 PM
  11. jonty12's Avatar
    Actually it is v1.0 of a brand new OS and this is phone #1 on that OS.

    BB10 has absolutely nothing to do with any of the previous BBOS devices, and that has been mentioned endlessly in the media since the new OS was to be called BBX.

    If you were expecting BlackBerry to be building from the previous devices, then sadly you must have completely isolated yourself from the media for quite some time.

    BlackBerry is not trying to sell the Z10 to the 7,000,000 people that are using legacy devices.. they already sold you a phone... They made this phone to win back the defectors, and to gain new customers. You can tell by the diminishing numbers that the old devices were not going to work long term and that they needed a new plan. If they manage to land some legacy customers on the new platform early on, then that is a bonus.. the rest can come when the early adopter phase is over and they have had some time to beef up the feature set.

    Do I hope that some of these 'legacy' features will be added to the new OS eventually, yes I certainly do. Do I expect it to all happen within one year, nope.. it too them 14 years to get some of them into the old OS, so I expect it will take some time for them to get into this one as well.

    Am I willing to wait, yes... why... because this z10 trashes the power and functionality of the old devices in the core features that is use. It may not for you, so either go back to your BBOS device.. Or move on to something else that does (and good luck with that) so that you are happy, nobody will blame you for that.

    I find it funny that most of the complaints are always from legacy BlackBerry customers, very few from other OSes seem to be ranting away...



    Yeah.. from the ZED on CB10
    The complaints are mostly from legacy BlackBerry users because, contrary to popular belief, many legacy BlackBerry customers stayed with BlackBerry by choice - not because they were ignorant of other options. BlackBerry gave them features/functions unavailable on other platforms. Most of them were productivity features.

    The new OS is lacking these features so now there's little reason not to look at other options. What a lot of legacy BlackBerry owners wanted was a BBOS "8" phone with a 1.5 GHZ dual core processor, 2 GB RAM, a 1280 X 768 screen, and front facing camera. Those specs would have eliminated the hour glass and lag on legacy devices and would have been a much more functional product.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 08:41 PM
  12. Admorris's Avatar
    Originally Posted by illlya
    You said that there is no notes. Use the remember feature.


    That's the biggest thing I can see with the OP's protests. Really didn't make an effort to learn about the device and OS. There are some shortcomings, sure, but as noted elsewhere this is V 1, and other freshly released devices, notably the OP's beloved iPhone, were hot messes.



    Meh.
    Bad bad argument. If BB takes this mindset, they are dead. The difference between iOS version 1 and BB version 1 is that iOS had no real competition at that time for what they were producing. Android version 1 was different enough that it really didn't have direct competition either and enticed people that weren't all that interested in iOS. They both created their own niche if you will. The problem with BB is that they DO have competition and they don't have anything particularly new to set themselves apart from already established OS's out there (android/iOS). On top of that, they didn't even think to join the trend of going with a slightly bigger screen. All in all, not good thinking on BB's part.


    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Foroplex
    anon(5828343) and Drew808 like this.
    04-13-13 08:46 PM
  13. anon(5828343)'s Avatar
    The complaints are mostly from legacy BlackBerry users because, contrary to popular belief, many legacy BlackBerry customers stayed with BlackBerry by choice - not because they were ignorant of other options. BlackBerry gave them features/functions unavailable on other platforms. Most of them were productivity features.

    The new OS is lacking these features so now there's little reason not to look at other options. What a lot of legacy BlackBerry owners wanted was a BBOS "8" phone with a 1.5 GHZ dual core processor, 2 GB RAM, a 1280 X 768 screen, and front facing camera. Those specs would have eliminated the hour glass and lag on legacy devices and would have been a much more functional product.

    Posted via CB10
    Rather than pursuing other OS options, I, for one, will simply get a back-up OS7 device (BB Bold 9900) for the day when my current OS7 Bold 9900 craps out. So perhaps BBRY really could care less about existing BB users since we have stuck with BB despite the far better alternatives compared to the OS7 because we are beholden to the core BB attributes like pin-to-pin, BIS, MemoPad, customized notifications, etc. while we have put up with a devastatingly lousy browsing experience for so long.

    The biggest disappointment is that rather than rewarding long standing BB users, BBRY has decided to abandon so much of what we valued as attributes in favor of just catching up to iOS/Android for most features and only surpassing iOS/Android with the browsing experience, keyboard and the Hub.

    The question therefore for BBRY is whether enough current iOS/Android users will see the browsing experience, keyboard and Hub as reasons enough to turn their backs on devices like the iPhone and Android. I have serious doubts on whether that will happen and even if it did whether it will happen for large enough numbers of consumers to make BB10 relevant.
    ihys, Legal Eagle and drewread like this.
    04-13-13 09:09 PM
  14. mset's Avatar
    Another first post troll starts a 4 page thread. It was the same silly stuff when playbook came out
    Silly? Didn't the Playbook rollout turn into a big disaster?
    04-13-13 09:14 PM
  15. anon(5828343)'s Avatar
    That's the biggest thing I can see with the OP's protests. Really didn't make an effort to learn about the device and OS. There are some shortcomings, sure, but as noted elsewhere this is V 1, and other freshly released devices, notably the OP's beloved iPhone, were hot messes.

    Meh.
    I tried using Remember and have continued to try using Remember and I can't stand it. I download the Memo Pad app today to try to make that work but I don't think I can make it work without re-typing all my notes one by one so while Remember works for you and many others, I have zero use for it as an alternative to my MemoPad on my Bold.
    04-13-13 09:15 PM
  16. anon(5828343)'s Avatar
    If you were expecting BlackBerry to be building from the previous devices, then sadly you must have completely isolated yourself from the media for quite some time.

    They made this phone to win back the defectors, and to gain new customers.

    I find it funny that most of the complaints are always from legacy BlackBerry customers, very few from other OSes seem to be ranting away...
    Please allow me to address some of your points. I've just left those points above so as not to unnecessarily take up too much space here.

    1. "Winning back defectors": I would think that most defectors switched to iOS or Android because of the really poor BB experience as relates to browsing, apps, media content integration (particularly vs iTunes) but that they would likely find old BB core attributes like pin-to-pin, BIS etc quite attractive. By defecting to iOS or Android, they clearly don't value the physical keyboard. If all the Z10 does is provide a superior browsing experience and a clearly inferior app and media content integration experience then BBRY has failed miserably in attracting this audience.

    2. "Gain new customers": given that BBRY is hemorrahaging about 3,000,000 existing users a quarter and, based on its initial sales figures from last quarter selling 1,000,000 Z10s of which 50% are from non-BB operating systems, they've got a long, long, long way to go. There is virtually zero credible reporting available to indicate that iPhone or Android users are switching to the Z10 in any large numbers. Perhaps the price point is a factor or maybe it's the dearth of available apps or whatever but I can't see that happening in a huge way.

    3. "Complaints from legacy BB users": the best ambassadors for the iPhone or the Android devices have been existing users. The number of times I've heard iPhone users brag about their devices makes me admire the loyalty that Apple has been able to generate with their products. BB USED to be in the same league, hence the coinage of terms like "Crackberry". BB's following was cult-like. So isn't it a little strange, then, that the most vocal concerns are being expressed by legacy BB users? Wouldn't it make more sense for BBRY to harness those users as Ambassadors rather than ignore them as detractors?

    There is an old marketing adage that it's far easier to retain existing customers than to acquire new ones. Most successful companies do that (hence the emergence of loyalty programs for airlines, hotels and many other retail businesses).
    Last edited by NYC10065; 04-14-13 at 06:49 AM. Reason: Typo
    niss63 and bruteforce037 like this.
    04-13-13 09:29 PM
  17. jonty12's Avatar
    Curious - what does the memo pad on OS7 give you that remember doesn't?

    I'm a heavy Outlook notes user and used memo pad extensively on my old BlackBerrys. Remember pulled in all my notes (both Outlook and Evernote) and syncs them now as changes are made. I'm not missing anything from memo pad.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 09:29 PM
  18. tmb2013's Avatar
    You guys seriously are an embarrassment to Blackberry and its original core group of owners. 90% of the replies to the op are worse than anything I've ever seen on an iPhone thread. It's like a flood of teens migrated from who knows where to the new Z10. The amount of apologists for this phone is truly amazing to me (and apparently to a growing number of people on here). Crackberry needs to clean house and go back to having adult conversations, and people who actually have relatively intelligent things to say from time to time. Good lord
    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Foroplex
    I totally feel ya on number three. And the "updates are gonna fix it" argument is even more unsettling as it simply demonstrates that BB didn't learn $hit from the PlayBook rush -to-release fiasco.
    I am convinced that they STILL weren't ready January 30 and released this OS under pressure. A new OS is fine, and I still love my Z10 and will not return it, but to do away with some of the BB core features loved by power users....just dumb dumb dumb. Did no one speak up in the meetings and say, "look guys, people are going to flip out if you drop that.?"
    These two are spot on.

    I don't love a phone, it's a phone. It is also supposed to be business tool, for actually doing serious work. The old OS devices for all their failings helped me do business. This is what Blackberry was founded on, doing business.

    They have strayed far too far to being a plaything.

    There are far too many failings, misses and outright - "what were they thinking here" moments with this device. I am spending too much work time trying to figure it out. Unlike, it seems , the majority of people here I do not live with my phone. When I get home at night I plug it in. I don't take it to bed with me. And unless I am out of town and need the alarm features, it doesn't come into my bedroom.

    Business tool.

    I have had to replace the battery more in the last 5 days with this thing than my last Bold required in two years.

    I appreciate being ale, finally, to read PDF's and I appreciate the faster browser. Other than that it is a phone that was rushed to market and too many things were left unfinished, or not thought of.
    04-13-13 09:31 PM
  19. anon(5828343)'s Avatar
    Curious - what does the memo pad on OS7 give you that remember doesn't?
    Posted via CB10
    I'm not sure if this is directed at me so if it wasn't, please forgive my presumption in answering but I like the simplicity of the MemoPad in OS7. No fuss. Just a plain MemoPad that I could manually sync with notes on my Macbook Mail application. I used MemoPad precisely as intended -- to write notes or memos which would be useful for me to jog my memory or to remind myself of specific data. That data ranged from names of restaurants to the sizes of my wife's and kid's shoes, clothes for when I go shopping to the names of certain restaurant maitre d's etc. It wasn't a task pad. It was just used for notes/memos. Easy. Simple.
    04-13-13 09:36 PM
  20. CBCListener's Avatar
    I don't remember ever being able to set multiple alarms on my old blackberrys. It was always one alarm at a time using the alarm clock.
    You are correct. The alarm only could be set to one time. The weekdays/all feature made it a bit more convenient for those who had the same schedule every day. From what I see with my wife's Zed (that's what we call it) the alarm now can be set for odd days, like for those who work through the weekend, and can sleep in on weekdays off (I used to work in radio, where this sort of schedule was routine). Seems to me this is something of an improvement. And I really don't have a problem resetting the time on my 9900 for odd days.

    It's also true, however, that the pre-BB10 Calendar (in my 9900) could set multiple, recurring and/or one-time alarms, simply by selecting 'New Alarm'. This option is missing in the BB10 Calendar, although I can't imagine it would be all that difficult to add in revision.

    I kind of agree here, Blackberry Protect was butchered. However Blackberry Link provides the same functions and Protect will be getting more functionality as the platform matures. So i'm not going to excreate any masonry over it.
    Meh. As someone's already pointed out, Link does the backups now (wirelessly? I haven't used it for that yet...and it's my wife's Zed, as I said, anyway). The automatic backup, if done more locally, strikes me as a more secure means of recovering one's data. The real reason for Protect is retained, which is, of course, to assure that one's data doesn't fall into the wrong hands, and on a good day, recover the device, proper.

    Thank you for creating an account and using your very first post to let us know you prefer Apple to Blackberry. It means a lot to us.
    Yeah, I felt blessed by the effort, too.

    Really, the amount of effort that goes into dissing BlackBerry and the new OS is just mind-boggling. I have to ask, since I don't frequent the Apple Fan sites (they leave a bad taste when I stumble on one) do BlackBerry and Android fanbois go to as much effort there?

    Speaking of stumbling-upon...I was at a Goodwill yesterday, and saw an action figure that looked familiar. It took me a moment, until I realized it was a Steve Jobs (looking gaunt and haggard, perhaps a year before his death) action figure...and it came with two replaceable arms, one holding an iPhone! Clearly this is some indication as to just how close to a cult Apple fandom is...can you imagine a similar treatment for Thorsten Heins (<shudder!>)? Besides, he looks like an elf. A tall elf, but an elf just the same.
    04-13-13 09:39 PM
  21. CBCListener's Avatar
    So for now I am back on my iPhone and will probably end up buying a Blackberry Bold Touch so I can BBM again and still be able to manage my life at the same time.
    You know, that may not be a bad plan. As previously mentioned, my wife was up for an upgrade, and got a Z10 (she had a Torch 9800). I love the phone, even though I've only had about an hour with it in the last weeks, and she absolutely adores it. I still have my 9900, with a contract that is finished in September, and while T-Mobile would be happy to upgrade me now (and even though there isn't a hard-and-firm "contract" with T-Mobile now), I'm in no hurry...first, because I'd like to see the Q10, and then because I'd like BlackBerry to restore the Bridge functionality (I have a PlayBook, too) as well as some of the oversights you mention. Plus the 9900 is still a great phone.

    In order to put yourself into position for going to a Z10 when your issues are addressed (and I'm confident that most, if not all, of them will be) you might want to put the word out to buy someone's 9930, no longer needed since they upgraded to a Z10 (for Verizon, right?) so that Verizon can't lock you into a new Bold.
    04-13-13 10:15 PM
  22. niss63's Avatar
    It's not as simple as building on os 567 and using it as a guide. From what I understand, it's completely recoded from the ground up and that takes time...time they did not have to put ALL the old functionality in along with the new. They needed to get it to market and delayed it as long as they could, as it is the delays may be more than they will be able to overcome. Just copying the old legacy devices obviously wouldn't save them...they need to grow again to survive and to grow, they needed to focus on what the mass market wants and then get to work putting all the old BlackBerry functionality in.

    People are expecting way too much all at the start. They buy without doing their research first to see if the phone will work for them and then bash the product later. I am totally happy with my z10 because I knew what I was buying and didn't have silly overblown expectations. I think the OP said how he had waited so long with all these expectations... maybe during that long wait he could have researched it a bit since all of the complaints have been discussed at length over and over already.



    Posted via CB10 on my Z10!
    I know, right? Because eighteen months is just not enough time to make sure the simplest expectations of your customer base are met.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 10:27 PM
  23. jonty12's Avatar
    I'm not sure if this is directed at me so if it wasn't, please forgive my presumption in answering but I like the simplicity of the MemoPad in OS7. No fuss. Just a plain MemoPad that I could manually sync with notes on my Macbook Mail application. I used MemoPad precisely as intended -- to write notes or memos which would be useful for me to jog my memory or to remind myself of specific data. That data ranged from names of restaurants to the sizes of my wife's and kid's shoes, clothes for when I go shopping to the names of certain restaurant maitre d's etc. It wasn't a task pad. It was just used for notes/memos. Easy. Simple.
    That's exactly how I use it and it works the same way. I have a folder in Remember called "Notes" that was created as soon as I set up my Exchange account. It has all my outlook notes in it and syncs with outlook. I add notes exactly the same way I did with Memo pad. As soon as I add or edit a note it gets added to my outlook. I really can't see a difference other than the ability to add more folders and change their colors.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 10:27 PM
  24. tmb2013's Avatar
    04-13-13 10:32 PM
  25. niss63's Avatar
    The multiple alarms are coming in a future update...notes have been replaced by remember but I do miss notes...but in saying that Remember has many advantages over notes and I have become quite found of using Remember I love how it integrates with Evernote

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10
    The Evernote app (side load) is much better than the Remember app for creating and storing notes.

    The Tasks function in the Remember app is passable, but really could be much better.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 10:35 PM
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