05-14-13 12:50 AM
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  1. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    They tried that with Netflix. They (Alex Saunders - head of BB dev relations) offered (on twitter) to code a BB Netflix app from scratch using BB's own developers for Netflix free of charge.

    Netflix still said no.
    I would have said "no" too. Development is relatively cheap when compared to maintenance. Check out the recent Youmail thread for some insight.

    I suspect that if BBRY offered to pay for development AND maintenance, the outcome would be different.

    It's not a small amount, so I'm not surprised BBRY would balk at that arrangement.
    05-10-13 08:15 PM
  2. mnc76's Avatar
    I cannot believe you guys are justifying this.

    Basically, y'all are saying it's ethically okay for me to take, say, BBM and port it to Android and iOS, right?

    Screw BBM's intellectual knowledge. It's free, and if they really want to stop me, they can provide it officially.

    Interesting.
    BBM has never been cross-platform. We're talking about apps that are literally available on every other platform except BB. Netflix, for example, is available on all other mobile platforms, plus the Xbox 360, PS3, Sony PS Vita, $99 DVD Players, HD TVs, Nintendo Wii... This list is not even exhaustive.
    05-10-13 08:17 PM
  3. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    BBM has never been cross-platform. We're talking about apps that are literally available on every other platform except BB. Netflix, for example, is available on all other mobile platforms, plus the Xbox 360, PS3, Sony PS Vita, $99 DVD Players, HD TVs, Nintendo Wii... This list is not even exhaustive.
    So we can take an app that isn't available to BBRY, but BBRY's stuff is off limits?
    bobauckland likes this.
    05-10-13 08:22 PM
  4. mnc76's Avatar
    So we can take an app that isn't available to BBRY, but BBRY's stuff is off limits?
    If BBM were available on BlackBerry (of course), Windows Phone, iOS, PC, etc... Then I would have no problem if someone converted it to run on Android.
    05-10-13 08:25 PM
  5. R Field's Avatar
    I cannot believe you guys are justifying this.

    Basically, y'all are saying it's ethically okay for me to take, say, BBM and port it to Android and iOS, right?

    Screw BBM's intellectual knowledge. It's free, and if they really want to stop me, they can provide it officially.

    Interesting.
    If it's a free app who cares? It's a sideload that was free on Android. If it's a pay app with the same features then yeah that's an issue. Do you really have an issue with me porting over netflix when I paid for their service, instagram when it's already free or Skype because I can't get it on the z10 yet? Get off your moral high horse. It's not taking bread off of someone's table then I could care less. They can port their app over to BlackBerry world it doesn't take that long. Go look at China if you're going to complain about intellectual property rights and patents they will copy anything and everything.

    CB10- BlackBerry Z10
    05-10-13 08:26 PM
  6. R Field's Avatar
    Also go look at how many kids have jailbroken their iphones.

    CB10- BlackBerry Z10
    05-10-13 08:28 PM
  7. ynomrah's Avatar
    BBM has never been cross-platform. We're talking about apps that are literally available on every other platform except BB. Netflix, for example, is available on all other mobile platforms, plus the Xbox 360, PS3, Sony PS Vita, $99 DVD Players, HD TVs, Nintendo Wii... This list is not even exhaustive.
    What does that matter? If the case is that Netflix does not want to have a bb app, then what makes you think its okay to steal it for bb10 anyway?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    05-10-13 08:30 PM
  8. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    If BBM were available on BlackBerry, Windows Phone, iOS, PC, etc... Then I would have no problem if someone converted it to run on Android.
    I subscribe to the belief that BBRY (and all developers) has/have the right to lawfully distribute it's/their intellectual property as it/they see fit.

    I don't believe any developer should, in essence, be blackmailed into providing a service he/she doesn't or can't provide.
    05-10-13 08:30 PM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    If it's a free app who cares? It's a sideload that was free on Android. If it's a pay app with the same features then yeah that's an issue. Do you really have an issue with me porting over netflix when I paid for their service, instagram when it's already free or Skype because I can't get it on the z10 yet? Get off your moral high horse. It's not taking bread off of someone's table then I could care less. They can port their app over to BlackBerry world it doesn't take that long. Go look at China if you're going to complain about intellectual property rights and patents they will copy anything and everything.

    CB10- BlackBerry Z10
    You win.
    05-10-13 08:32 PM
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    What does that f-ing matter? If the case is that Netflix does not want to have a bb app, then what makes you think its okay to steal it for bb10 anyway?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    This is the MOST eye-opening discussion I've ever had here.

    *gallops away on his glorious steed named Moral High*
    bobauckland likes this.
    05-10-13 08:35 PM
  11. mnc76's Avatar
    I subscribe to the belief that BBRY (and all developers) has/have the right to lawfully distribute it's/their intellectual property as it/they see fit.

    I don't believe any developer should, in essence, be blackmailed into providing a service he/she doesn't or can't provide.
    It's a tricky issue. Morally I sleep fine having Netflix and Instagram. But at the same time I agree in principle with what you're saying.
    05-10-13 08:38 PM
  12. ynomrah's Avatar
    This is the MOST eye-opening discussion I've ever had here.

    *gallops away on his glorious steed named Moral High*
    Did this guy seriously just attempt to claim that because an application is free, it justifies a sideload even if its against the will of the developer?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    05-10-13 08:40 PM
  13. mnc76's Avatar
    What does that matter? If the case is that Netflix does not want to have a bb app, then what makes you think its okay to steal it for bb10 anyway?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Where is the stealing? I pay for Netflix. The Netflix app is available for free. I don't get Netflix app support.
    05-10-13 08:41 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Did this guy seriously just attempt to claim that because an application is free, it justifies a sideload even if its against the will of the developer?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    Yep. I would dearly love to hear the perspective of BB10 developers.

    It's okay though, since "China does it."
    05-10-13 08:43 PM
  15. kbz1960's Avatar
    What does that matter? If the case is that Netflix does not want to have a bb app, then what makes you think its okay to steal it for bb10 anyway?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    So Netflix can sue them all then.
    05-10-13 08:45 PM
  16. Toodeurep's Avatar
    How much could it cost to port these apps to BB10? I'm surprised that these companies aren't willing to port these apps, even with BB10 just starting out it's still a few million new users that App makers wouldn't usually have.
    +1
    I am not 100% sure about the user base for the platforms but I wouldn't turn down the opportunity to reach tens of millions of customers. BlackBerry has worked hard to make this as painless as possible. I also seem to remember them offering their own devs if needed. Sounds like an easy process to me.

    INSTAGRAM: "Hey Thors10, we would love to have our app on your platform but we just cannot spare the resources. Sorry"
    Heins: "I'll send Alec, Alex, Chad, et al right over. We will get this bad boy knocked out and ready to roll by June"
    INSTAGRAM: "Okay, great idea."
    I guess I am a dreamer.
    R Field likes this.
    05-10-13 09:22 PM
  17. ubizmo's Avatar
    Maybe it's time for BlackBerry to limit sideloading to registered developers, as it was meant to be in the first place.


    Posted via CB10
    bobauckland likes this.
    05-10-13 10:01 PM
  18. roguerebellions's Avatar
    @mset had they spent more time with the Z10 they would of found out that they could side load those apps in the meantime. My head is not in the sand... when I have a problem with a product I find solutions.

    Posted via CB10
    Wow @mset, relax this is a place for all people interested and who love blackberry. dave bourque is just a kid. don't be so harsh on him.
    05-10-13 10:02 PM
  19. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    It's actually funny you mention this because at work I have one dedicated computer for side loading apps. At first it was for me to try but then I started offering it to customers.

    I've done it for a lot of people and they are happy with the phone and the side loaded apps.
    Posted via CB10
    You're doing a good service to customers, and yourself to avoid returned sales that would cut into your commission. That said you should be VERY VERY clear and careful each and every customer you do this for ...

    - how they can do this themselves,
    - that you're NOT the person to contact for troubleshooting of if it affects their monthly bill do to data overages, or negatively affects the performance of their phones.

    I'm sure BlackBerry would frown on your for doing this - even though they recognize your helping customers and continuing sales ... just be very clear and careful, cool?

    (PS: Im sure you've thought of it ... but always be mindful).
    bobauckland likes this.
    05-10-13 10:10 PM
  20. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    As I've said many times there isn't much BlackBerry can do other than bribe and setup resources for developpers... BlackBerry Developer <loaded with resources...
    Bribe, as in send cash to convince them to code native or cascades apps for BB10? WHY?!!?

    The best alternative is to seek licensing and permission for BlackBerry to develop the applications for such big app names themselves.

    This takes the responsibility for support, removes costs for development time for updates on features or bug fixes, and all the benefits of advertisement and clout for these development houses.

    PS: BlackBerry has long did this for Twitter, FaceBook, and Youtube (Google), so why stop there?

    bobfranklin likes this.
    05-10-13 10:13 PM
  21. mset's Avatar
    I'll try to keep it as civil as I can. This is actually a good discussion.

    By the time they finally made the decision to abandon their legacy BBOS, they were very big in business. That was late 2009/early 2010, cause in April 2010 they bought QNX. In mid 2007 the iPhone came out. The question is: should've Balsillie and Lazaridis immediately have screamed out scared to death as the first iPhone hit the market?
    Screamed out? I don't know. All I know is that there were 3 years of sub-optimal decision making. I'm not saying I could have done any better, but I'm not an IT pro. Other firms saw the writing on the wall and responded. BBRY didn't. You're forgetting the Playbook, something BBRY spent a lot of time on but wasn't able to push through to significant penetration levels.

    Bottom line is that I still disagree with your contention that Blackberry is/was struggling because AAPL/Android were/are 'eating it's customers'. You have the causal relationship backwards there.

    The other story is the OS. I think you underestimate the complexity here. BB had a healthy business model with an installed userbase relying on a special infrastructure, which was developed on top of their decade-old matured OS. So is it so simple to ditch something you were working on for so many years? And how to do this transition while maintaining the value proposition for the installed enterprise user base? And finally: what OS to take next? Android or something own? Tough, really tough decisions here.
    Not sure if you're suggesting that I said they weren't faced with tough decisions. Of course they were.

    Any idea how long it takes to develop a brand new OS from the ground up?
    It's not too hard to imagine.

    Lastly you're claiming that BBRY had the option to further focus on their QWERTY enterprise niche which thy own. Sorry, but that's total nonsense.
    You must have me mixed up with someone else. I made no such claim. I simply said that I wondered about it, and I have said many times that I'm not a programmer and don't have the tech knowledge necessary to make such determinations.
    Last edited by mset; 05-11-13 at 02:07 AM.
    05-10-13 10:18 PM
  22. edhgreatone's Avatar
    Consumers move quicker than businesses... business developers don't port their apps, consumers will do it for them... BlackBerry stops the porting capability, their kill their potential come back... If developers realize how easy it is to port and play catch up, consumer behavior shifts to no longer self por and developers increase their surface area the way it should be through BlackBerry App world where their app is officially offered...

    BlackBerry knows what their doing and it's a damn good decision if you ask me... people port away and developers will eventually give us what we really want... apps make specifically for BlackBerry os integrated with our widgets
    05-10-13 10:26 PM
  23. Pandastrong's Avatar
    I don't know how similar my experience is to other people's. But I took a leap of faith when I bought a Z10. I like a lot about the BB10 experience. However i committed to a BlackBerry for the next two years hoping they would be able to bring the apps everyone else uses to the platform. Being a long term BlackBerry user I'm used to not having the apps my friends and family have. I'm used to feeling in some way left out of what's going on because of my choice of smartphone. The problem is, most people are simply not willing to put up with it, and so will avoid buying a phone which leaves them I this situation. A lot of people don't have much brand loyalty, they just want the phone that allows them to do everything they want to do, and what everyone they know is doing, regardless of the manufacturer. It is for this reason BlackBerry has such a small market share. For a lot of people, buying a BlackBerry means not being able to do the things they want to do with their phone. Unless BlackBerry tackles this problem they are going to stay just where they are, with a small but dedicated customer base, but not much more. I wish this wasn't the case, but i'm struggling to see how it can change, unless the app ecosystem changes, or apps move to browser based services. I'm going to stick with BlackBerry for the foreseeable future, but every time I'm unable to use an app that the majority of people I know use, i waiver a little bit.

    Posted via CB10
    niss63 and ubizmo like this.
    05-10-13 10:29 PM
  24. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    I completely understand this. Skype is absolutely essential for my business and I almost returned my Z10 when I discovered it didn't have Skype. It was only finding out that it is coming that has kept me hanging on while I use my laptop. However, the wait has really been stretching out. Worse is that I really haven't been recommending it to anyone until Skype comes out to avoid their own discovery of this issue.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't get what is with you peopl, skype is out and works perfect on the z10 with the little sideload and it's on app world for q10
    05-10-13 10:36 PM
  25. Pandastrong's Avatar
    I don't get what is with you peopl, skype is out and works perfect on the z10 with the little sideload and it's on app world for q10
    It doesn't work perfectly.

    We shouldn't 'need' to sideload substandard apps in an attempt to get apps everyone else has.

    Posted via CB10
    detfan likes this.
    05-10-13 10:40 PM
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