01-27-14 09:58 PM
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  1. jay64's Avatar
    I wish I had a dollar for every time in the last, oh say, 5 years someone used the terms "blackberry" and "reboot problems" together in all these BB forums.
    h20work and queritor like this.
    05-18-13 05:33 PM
  2. mylrob's Avatar
    I got my Z10 a week ago at Verizon (in NYC). I installed only two app's (Bloomberg and a scan reader) and had random re-boots while driving my car (when connected with my car via bluetooth). Not a major issue to me, but should be addressed.
    05-18-13 05:59 PM
  3. crimsonking's Avatar
    [QUOTE=Frenchman75;8506128]

    Totally agree, but let's not blow things out of proportion. By reading some of the comments on this thread, they make it sound that it is a widespread issue and that most Z10s have random reboots which is not the case at all from what I can see.
    No, these are the stories you make in your head, what is true is that by having quite a good number of people with the random reboot around here and on the BlackBerry forums, it starts to look like a serious issue, which it is. BlackBerry can't afford to have this problem, it is a serious dent in a very good and innovative phone.

    Posted via CB10
    h20work and queritor like this.
    05-18-13 06:29 PM
  4. Tom_Colorado's Avatar
    I just want to see a solid OS not what the issues are reboots, apps, bridge or whatever. I doubt BB is not working on the issues as fast as possible, fixing a random problem is not simple, hopefully something is showing up in the log files. Have the people who have reboot problems turned on Diagnostics so BB can get the data?
    05-18-13 07:09 PM
  5. jhimmel's Avatar
    My prediction is that this problem has a variety of causes, and that it will not be "cured" in one magical release. The problem will be reduced and <hopefully> all but eliminated over time and several software releases.
    I say this because some say changing the SIM card solved it, some say changing the memory card solved it, some say the last leak solved it, some say the new leak solved it, while for many, nothing yet has solved it. Mine (on Verizon) NEVER suffered this problem. My brother (also on Verizon) DID have this problem. Leak 10.1.0.1756 solved it for him, but I see that it did nothing for many others here. I even saw one person who went through BB support system, and after analyzing the logs that he was asked to send in, BB suggested that he look at the CASE he was using because the logs indicated legitimate resetting taking place by use of the power button - and they turned out to be right (the case was not seated correctly and was pushing on the button)!

    For anyone who thinks this is not a number one priority at BB, I would bet anything that it is. They are collecting logs from users, and I have no doubt that they are trying as best they can to nail it down. Unfortunately, as I said, I strongly suspect that the numbers of those affected will be reduced over the course of several releases while they address what is most probably multiple causes.
    05-18-13 08:03 PM
  6. Anonymous23400's Avatar
    Interesting! What kind of coverage do you get in California? LTE? What about Texas?

    Also does the reboots mostly happen when the phone is idle? Or does it mostly happen when using?

    Posted via CB10
    Happened in both scenarios to me. Once I manually rebooted then phone, put it down, didn't use it at all and about an hour later it's reboots by itself. So obviously it had nothing to do with anything I did on the phone because I didn't use it between reboots.... Im no computer wiz but if I had to guess I'd say it is a hardware issue....

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-13 08:11 PM
  7. h20work's Avatar
    I just want to see a solid OS not what the issues are reboots, apps, bridge or whatever. I doubt BB is not working on the issues as fast as possible, fixing a random problem is not simple, hopefully something is showing up in the log files. Have the people who have reboot problems turned on Diagnostics so BB can get the data?
    I've sent in my logs several times now.
    05-18-13 08:21 PM
  8. winter_hat's Avatar
    Mine rebooted early on, but seems to have stopped. Haven't had a reboot in a month after one every few days. wtf
    05-18-13 09:03 PM
  9. Tech Consultant's Avatar
    Have been trying that.

    I haven't touched any games that could make it overheat.
    I have put screen brightness to 1%
    Have been trying wifi only, 3G, 2G and even without any network at al.
    Also deleted all my side loads.

    And still, it reboots like there is no tomorrow

    Posted via CB10
    Did you try a security wipe after a backup? It would help if you can keep it running a few hours fresh (without restoring your data from your backup). If it works fine before restoring from your backup but it starts randomly rebooting thereafter, that means your backup is corrupted.
    05-18-13 09:06 PM
  10. Omnitech's Avatar
    So people keep hashing and re-hashing the same old ground.

    Correlation is not necessarily causation, people. Basic science. The fact that you happened to do "X" just before it rebooted, or that you stopped doing "Y" before getting a respite from reboots for a couple of weeks, does not automatically mean you found the "solution".

    I realize it's frustrating, I realize many people really want to track down the issue and see if they can figure out how to work around it. I did too, at first.

    But it's clear at this point that it's an OS issue, Blackberry has stated multiple times it's an OS issue, please stop wasting time going on wild goose chases with new SIM cards and new memory cards and all the other hocus-pocus and incantations. You're not going to single-handedly fix the problem for everyone else by yourself.

    Unfortunately, we have to wait until Blackberry gets a handle on it.

    It would be helpful to escalate the issue with your carrier and get on the horn with Blackberry support and give them device logs if they want them. That could help.

    Aside:

    I really wish someone had a tool that graphed CPU utilization and device temperature over time the way Battery Guru does with power input/output. Because I'd be willing to bet that we would see a pattern of increasing CPU utilization and device temperature just prior to these reboots, especially the ones that reboot in the middle of the night while charging.

    Even better, correlate that with network activity. I have a hunch that many of the reboots are catalyzed by some network communication attempt that fails for some reason, sending the device into a tailspin in its network code, triggering the OS's "Sanity Monitor" to restart it. This is also the theory of tickerguy, as he explains in the following 2 posts:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post8467959
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post8500708


    Yesterday I noticed my Z10 was abnormally warm and Battery Guru showed unusually high power consumption when it had no apps running other than Battery Guru and Hub++, which normally consume little to no power. I assume the CPU was pegged on some sort of zombie process or something but I don't have a tool to investigate that. (Something I plan to find when I get more time. I'll probably have to console into the device and run ps or something.)

    So I turned on Airplane Mode and it calmed down quite a bit, power consumption and temperature went down. Then I just pre-emptively restarted it rather than wait for it to crash. After the restart everything was back to normal.


    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...eryone-801750/
    05-18-13 10:46 PM
  11. southlander's Avatar
    My wife got a Verizon Z10 2 days ago. I was talking to the sales rep while he activated the device. I asked him about this rumor that the VZW Z10's are the ones with the reboot issue. He said he has not seen nor heard that but that he personally had not sold a lot of Z10s. He then said for example with the iPhone a certain number are defective from the box and they get them back. He said so it stands to reason the same is true of the Z10.
    05-18-13 11:11 PM
  12. Omnitech's Avatar
    just curious...is the rebooting happening on the Q10 too or just the Z10?
    Q10 users have reported random reboot issues.

    Not as many as the Z10 users but it's not yet clear to me if that is primarily because there aren't as many out there (including zero in the USA so far), the newer 10.1 OS builds on them, or that they are just better for some reason.
    05-18-13 11:42 PM
  13. bobshine's Avatar
    Happened in both scenarios to me. Once I manually rebooted then phone, put it down, didn't use it at all and about an hour later it's reboots by itself. So obviously it had nothing to do with anything I did on the phone because I didn't use it between reboots.... Im no computer wiz but if I had to guess I'd say it is a hardware issue....

    Posted via CB10
    I think that chances are that it's a software issue since lots of people had reported the the reboot issue had been less common... or that it's gone.

    If we look at this backward... the reason that BlackBerry 10 would reboot is probably because something froze the phone. BlackBerry is probably designed to kill the process that froze the phone... maybe it can't. so it reboots the phone.

    What can cause a phone to freeze ? Lots of stuff. That's why it's so difficult to pinpoint the problem. But since it seems to happen more often on Verizon, then there must be something at Verizon that is causing most of the reboots.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-13 12:03 AM
  14. ESCON's Avatar
    It's quite clear that the only common denominator is the phone itself and the software/apps that are included with the OS (OS version is irrelevant also). Has anyone ever considered a certain manufacture batch from a certain country? I remember back when the 9800 was released and a lot of people (including myself) had complained about a loose slider. Same situation (relatively speaking), some people had it, some didn't, but there was talk about comparisons of units from different assembly countries. What if it were as simple as a hardware issue narrowed down to a specific manufacture plant? I'm on AT&T and have had reboots since release day. My box says Made in Mexico 6.

    With people saying it's "mostly" a Verizon issue, that's just plain ignorant. It doesn't matter if 99% of the people complaining are Verizon customers, the fact that people from many carriers around the globe have the issue, carrier specificity is void.
    Mexico 6 - no reboots from day one... That's why i think we need more Details.
    Verizon random reboot issue update-image.jpg
    05-19-13 12:25 AM
  15. Frenchman75's Avatar
    I was just doing a quick Google search to see what kind of problems some Samsung Galaxy S4 owners are experiencing so far. To those of you having the reboot issue, this link should make you feel a bit better. The S4 has only been out for a few weeks and the list of problems is already quite impressive and a lot longer than the Z10....

    Common Galaxy S4 problems and possible solutions | Digital Trends

    and RANDOM REBOOTS have also been noted:

    Samsung Galaxy s4 random resets - Ask Community

    http://community.sprint.com/baw/message/574348

    [Q] galaxy S4 random reboots - xda-developers
    05-19-13 12:42 AM
  16. h20work's Avatar
    I was just doing a quick Google search to see what kind of problems some Samsung Galaxy S4 owners are experiencing so far. To those of you having the reboot issue, this link should make you feel a bit better. The S4 has only been out for a few weeks and the list of problems is already quite impressive and a lot longer than the Z10....

    Common Galaxy S4 problems and possible solutions | Digital Trends

    and RANDOM REBOOTS have also been noted:

    Samsung Galaxy s4 random resets - Ask Community

    Sprint.com | Sorry for the interruption...

    [Q] galaxy S4 random reboots - xda-developers
    Why would that make us feel better? Personally I don't care about any other brands or any issues that they may have.

    You can downplay it all you want, but since you don't have one and it isn't affecting you, it's hard to take you serious.
    kevinnugent and queritor like this.
    05-19-13 12:51 AM
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
    You can downplay it all you want, but since you don't have one and it isn't affecting you, it's hard to take you serious.

    Not really. I've made the same point many times before. The problems look much more magnified when you come to a product forum like this. This has ALWAYS been the case on product support forums. People who don't have issues and problems they need to solve, and who are not die-hard fanboys/fangrrls just basically don't spend significant parts of their lives hanging out in places like Crackberry.

    And when you have a poll as part of a thread on "random reboot problems", who do you think are the majority of people who are reading such threads and answering such polls? People who have random rebooting problems of course. I also don't spend hours a week reading threads here on subjects like Korean text entry or cooking apps, because I don't care about either of those things and neither of them affect my Blackberry experience.

    As I have also stated many times, the problem is real and it is a serious problem for the people that are affected by it - including myself. It's just not as widespread a problem as a lot of people seem to think.
    Frenchman75 likes this.
    05-19-13 12:58 AM
  18. h20work's Avatar
    Not really. I've made the same point many times before. The problems look much more magnified when you come to a product forum like this. This has ALWAYS been the case on product support forums. People who don't have issues and problems they need to solve, and who are not die-hard fanboys/fangrrls just basically don't spend significant parts of their lives hanging out in places like Crackberry.

    And when you have a poll as part of a thread on "random reboot problems", who do you think are the majority of people who are reading such threads and answering such polls? People who have random rebooting problems of course. I also don't spend hours a week reading threads here on subjects like Korean text entry or cooking apps, because I don't care about either of those things and neither of them affect my Blackberry experience.

    As I have also stated many times, the problem is real and it is a serious problem for the people that are affected by it - including myself. It's just not as widespread a problem as a lot of people seem to think.
    Not a clue why you quoted me, and only partially at that.
    05-19-13 01:04 AM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    Not a clue why you quoted me, and only partially at that.

    Because you were claiming that Frenchman75 was "hard to take serious", which I disputed, for the reasons I wrote.*

    Re: partial quoting - those of us who have been participating in online forums since the 1980s are well aware of the longstanding rule of online etiquette to only quote material which is relevant to our followup. The reasoning for that practice is just as valid today as it was then, but unfortunately for various reasons most people today can't be bothered to edit for readability.

    Same thing goes for the epidemic of email "reply all" and sending email reply chains dozens of generations long which mostly contain irrelevant (and often confidential) material that should not be sent to the latest recipient(s).


    *(However I should note that Frenchman75 has, in other threads, taken that stance farther to the point of attempting to dismiss mere claims that "some people with Q10s experience random reboots", which is getting a bit absurd.)
    05-19-13 01:30 AM
  20. Frenchman75's Avatar
    Why would that make us feel better? Personally I don't care about any other brands or any issues that they may have.

    You can downplay it all you want, but since you don't have one and it isn't affecting you, it's hard to take you serious.
    Like I said before I'm not downplaying it, I'm just putting things into perspective. All manufacturers end up with lemons and faulty batches. And you have my word I will buy a Z10 as soon I can find someone who will be willing to buy my faulty iPhone 5!
    05-19-13 01:49 AM
  21. syxx20603's Avatar
    Haven't had any reboots on my Verizon Z-10. But having issues with some native and side loaded apps where they say I need to be connected to a network. Mobile or wifi does not work for either. Apps are poynt, skype, kik and speed test. I was told that holding the power button down until the phone goes off works, which it did, but the problem occurs ever couple of days or so and it's very annoying to have to do that.. Anyone else having this problem? Anyone know a permanent fix??

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-13 03:07 AM
  22. lynxs_claw's Avatar
    I wonder if there's simply a memory leak that's forcing the OS to commit suicide and restart.
    After reading these random reboot issues .. I was totally going to write the same thing. A bad memory location or locations could cause the system to reboot. I think it's reasonable to believe that with the QNX microkernal processor that if the OS function used a bad memory location the system could reboot. Not sure if the system checks this area fully in the startup diagnostics but it could explain why people who have returned their phone several times have finally got one that seems to work. However, this might not be the only condition that could be causing the issue.
    05-19-13 03:10 AM
  23. fetende's Avatar
    Great BBTeam is adressing this issue
    05-19-13 03:28 AM
  24. james pisano's Avatar
    I have a Z on Verizon and thank God, have not experienced any random rebooting issue. My only issue is my browser crashing every once in a while.

    Via Z10 & CB10
    05-19-13 03:51 AM
  25. Omnitech's Avatar
    Haven't had any reboots on my Verizon Z-10. But having issues with some native and side loaded apps where they say I need to be connected to a network. Mobile or wifi does not work for either. Apps are poynt, skype, kik and speed test. I was told that holding the power button down until the phone goes off works, which it did, but the problem occurs ever couple of days or so and it's very annoying to have to do that.. Anyone else having this problem? Anyone know a permanent fix??

    Common complaint with Android apps or ports. Which I believe all the ones you named are. I think the old Verizon firmware is at least partly the problem there.
    05-19-13 05:11 AM
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