[Trini-34]

The same crap happened to me yesterday. I when to T-Mobile to get my older sister a Z10 (for mother's day) and was told that they do not recommend it, due to the return rate being so high. I said to her I did not return mines or my wife's, she then said yeah some people like it and some don't and proceeded to offer me a droid device. Guess what... My older sister will be on BB come mother's day!!!!

[BruvvaPete2]

If a salesperson is honest about the reason why any device is being returned there wouldn't be an issue. If the salesperson went through the good and bad of several devices you would have a good salesperson. If that person simply said "Don't buy it because people are returning it in droves " and gave no reason why, go somewhere else. All this talk of restaurants and other bs is nonsense.

[mkmilan]

I will be graduating with my BA in four days, as a gift my sister wants to get me a new phone. I told her I want the Z10. When she talked to a t-mobile manager, texted me saying "So I talked to a tmobile manager and he didn't recommend to get the blackberry z10. They said it's horrible and customers are returning it a lot." Why would a manager say something like that? Is there a possibility that they want me to buy the iphone 5 instead? I told my sister I still want it.

Ok, you have a BA and wonder why a sales person or manager would push something? Would love to be a fly on the wall when you buy your next car. Really?!

[raino]

Congratulations. Here is the reason why many, many people are returning their Z10 to Tmobile. It is very simple. Tmobile started adding a "migration" fee of $100 to their bills in addition to the cost of the phone. The retail stores knew nothing about this and didn't tell the customers. So, when the bill arrives...."hello Tmobile, what's this $100 migration fee". It turns out there was a class action law suit that allows everyone to return the phone. I called tmobile and complained up the chain. It took awhile, but we finally came to a protracted agreement where my bill was credited for $50 and I received $5 off per month for 6 months despite being deceived. I had to balance my time versus cost. Tmobile had to swallow a used phone if I brought it back. It was a test of wills on Friday night.

As for the Z10, It is an investment that will hopefully appreciate as Blackberry improves the product. Let's all hope it goes faster than the Playbook.

Best advice to a graduate...buy an Apple iPhone to fit in with the rest of the sheep.

That $100 migration fee would have been charged to you because you must have been 12-15 months into a contract. I'm surprised you weren't told. But given the cluster**** that is TMO CS, I'm not too surprised.

The legal action was not about migration fees. It was about TMO not "clearly" disclosing phone payment/financing terms. Either way, as somebody else said, this would not have hit only Z10 purchases.

[Vorkosigan]

There are good salespeople and bad salespeople and it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes. Best advice is to do your own research and try out the phones you are interested in. Sounds like you already have your heart set on a Z10. Congratulations and enjoy!

[SOS#AC]

Congratulations. Here is the reason why many, many people are returning their Z10 to Tmobile. It is very simple. Tmobile started adding a "migration" fee of $100 to their bills in addition to the cost of the phone. The retail stores knew nothing about this and didn't tell the customers. So, when the bill arrives...."hello Tmobile, what's this $100 migration fee". It turns out there was a class action law suit that allows everyone to return the phone. I called tmobile and complained up the chain. It took awhile, but we finally came to a protracted agreement where my bill was credited for $50 and I received $5 off per month for 6 months despite being deceived. I had to balance my time versus cost. Tmobile had to swallow a used phone if I brought it back. It was a test of wills on Friday night.

As for the Z10, It is an investment that will hopefully appreciate as Blackberry improves the product. Let's all hope it goes faster than the Playbook.

Best advice to a graduate...buy an Apple iPhone to fit in with the rest of the sheep.

The new Simple Choice plans have not been out long enough for this to even happen and the Z10 was available before the Simple Choice plans. Reps might not have told people about the migration fee, but that's not why.. lets face it, people aren't pouring into the stores to buy Z10's.

Besides that what you said is not even the case, Washington State said T-Mobile did not clearly state that although their is no service contract, you are still liable to pay for the device in full if you terminate service. It has nothing to do with the fact that there is a migration fee to move to the new plans if you're on a subsidized plan and before you're upgrade eligible.

[lorax1284]

If the return rate is high at T-Mobile, I blame T-Mobile for not properly training their staff on how to train customers on how to use the gestures and mostly, for jumping to the erroneous conclusion that for ALL potential T-Mobile customers, Netflix and Instagram are the only things that matter, before the customer has been properly qualified. Frikkin' amateurs, all of them.

Being a retail manager, all this talk of steering customers away from what they want just blows me away. A sale is a sale at the end of the day. I know, there's the commission factor, but if the person walks out with nothing, that's no sale at all.

If someone walks into the store with an idea in mind of what they want, and I have that item, and I honestly have no strong reservations against selling that customer that item, a wise retail employee will sell the customer the item they want and not jinx it by trying to steer them to something they don't know they want.... but not all retail staff are wise. You should have heard the Android fanboi trying to tell me (erroneous) "facts" about BlackBerry and Android when I bought my Z10 on launch day. I felt sorry for him: being so certain and yet so wrong, but also so young... what's that saying? I'm not young enough to know everything? That's kind of how I felt, but because I absolutely believe in the superiority of the long-term BB10 platform and strategy, I figure he'll come around eventually... I'm "long" on BBRY.

[thurask]

Phone salesman recites script, news at 11.

Posted via CB10

[houshinto#IM]

I will be graduating with my BA in four days, as a gift my sister wants to get me a new phone. I told her I want the Z10. When she talked to a t-mobile manager, texted me saying "So I talked to a tmobile manager and he didn't recommend to get the blackberry z10. They said it's horrible and customers are returning it a lot." Why would a manager say something like that? Is there a possibility that they want me to buy the iphone 5 instead? I told my sister I still want it.

Don't be discouraged OP. It's just business being business. Rarely, do you get the help you NEED, only the help THEY want you to get. Make sure your sister or you get what YOU want.

[pantlesspenguin]

If stores honestly have a high return rate of the Z10, it means they're not selling them correctly IMHO. Really, the only thing the Z10 doesn't have in its corner right now is app support. Everything else is top notch. To sell these phones they need to be up front about the app situation, learn the gestures inside and out themselves in order to demonstrate them to customers, and show them all that can be accomplished with the hub. It should be that simple.

I bought my Z10 on T-Mo's launch day, and all 3 employees there were really excited. They hadn't received a demo unit yet (this was at a mall kiosk, but there's one employee there I've always received AMAZING service from). When everything was set up, I already knew more about it then they did so I was having fun showing them how it worked, and they were pretty dang impressed.

[JimmyGrymez]

Same thing happens at bestbuy mobile they recommend the Iphone and S3 because they know nothing about the z10

Posted via CB10

[pcondello]

I used to work for Rogers back in the days of feature phones, and I recall we were definitely steered towards selling particular models. In the beginning it was Nokia, Nokia, Nokia. Over half of all phones we sold were Nokias because the although the commissions were the same (each activation was a tick in the box so to speak), there were sales incentives and bonuses for salespeople who sold the most of a particular brand or model in a particular month or week. So everyone was trying for the bragging rights of winner.

Later, Nokia got kicked to the curb and it was all about Motorola. I remember sales incentives when the first RAZR came out, the person who sold the most of them each week would win one outright. Everyone wanted one (and we weren't given demo models), so regardless of the fact that the RAZR had by far the highest warranty repair rate, we pushed that phone to every person that walked through the door, and ONLY steered them away if it meant otherwise losing a sale.

It wasn't until the first smartphones started hitting the market when individual salesperson bias started driving sales. I remember myself steering people clear away from the Handspring Treo (Google it) because in my opinion it was an absolute piece of GARBAGE, and steered them towards the Blackberry 5810 because the previous Mobitex Blackberrys were so successful.

So if a particular T-Mobile manager is steering people clear of the Z10 it could be that there are sales incentives for him to sell Android or iPhones, or perhaps he's an Apple fanboy and just prefers people buy the phones that he likes better.

Never, ever walk into any sales situation totally blind, whether you're buying a phone, a car, hiring a landscaper, anything. To do otherwise is your loss alone.

EDIT: I should mention also that those sales incentives (like win a free phone etc) were either subsidized by the manufacturer, or by the store franchise owner (our boss at the end of the day) who decided to buy a large quantity of one particular phone or another and wanted to make sure that the inventory got sold. I believe T-Mobile stores in the U.S. are corporately owned, not franchised out, so there may be other politics at play. In any event, just think, after all the millions of dollars spent on marketing a new mobile product, its usually the kid on the other side of a counter at a phone store that has ALOT of influence on which models sell and which ones don't. Most people walk into a phone store without a clue what they want and end up walking out with whatever the sales guy convinces them to buy. I know because I was that kid across the counter for 6 years.

[Robert Pepe]

That is the most important thing to remember. It is not what the phone will do, it is what you will do with the phone. If Phone calls, Texting, email are big for you go with the Z10... If playing games is more important than you have other choices.. Congrats on that BA!! Now get the hell to work!!

[Robert Pepe]

The learning curve is a little high which may led to people giving up and returning it. But once you "get it" it is awesome!!!

[Gees97]

It depends what your needs are. I hate apple and android but their products work. Apple is nearly perfect but they've also had many years to work on it. The BlackBerry Z10 still has issues. If I were you I'd get the Q10 unless you like touchscreen.

Posted via CB10

[OldSkoolVWLover]

I am with the others saying it may be an individual opinion (could be commission too). I work in a complete none retail environment, I carry a Pre3 and one of my coworkers carries some T-Mo slab Android device. One of our newer coworkers has an iPhone, when my droid toting coworker mentioned it to me the girl with the iPhone was amazed that there were two of us that refuse to carry and apple device.

The look on her face was even worse when I was talking about wanting a new BB (Android users contract comes up next month and mine in July). The iPhone user couldn't believe we were having a serious discussion about getting BB phones. It's not just apple users, but some people are completely closed off to anything other than what they use, any mention of something different is amazing and laughable to them. So that manager just could be one of those people completely set on his ecosystem and unable to fathom someone wanting/using/enjoying something else.

[MultiPlatt]

I am currently on Tmobile but just for fun stopped into a Verizon authorized retailer store and asked if they had the Z10. The rep there informed me that the stores in the area would not be carrying the phone because the person in charge of the area use on for a short time and did not like it. Crazy.

[th3h0ff]

T-Mobile has had many different plans in recent years. If a customer is on a traditional subsidized phone plan and wants to switch to the new plans, which do not offer subsidized phones, the customer will have to pay a migration fee that depends on the amount of time that has elapsed since the customer last got a subsidized phone. The new plans require that the customer pays full price for the phone. The way it is advertised is that the customer pays a downpayment and pays the rest of the cost of the phone in monthly installments for two years. There is not a contract for service, but there is one for the device if the customer chooses to do the 0% financing of the device.

It doesn't matter which device the customer switched from or to; the migration fee is simply to recover the pro rata subsidy on the previous subsidized device. This wouldn't hit Z10 purchases anymore than it would hit any other phone.

This is not accurate. Also what I believed to be the case but can tell you from talking with high level customer retention that the migration fee is solely there to pay for switching your rate plan and NOT TO COVER THE SUBSIDIZED COST of your previous contract phone. My example is this. New plan would save me roughly $20 a month on my 2 lines, and I would have to pay a migration fee of $100 per line to do this. Initially I thought it'd be worth it, that is until the rep told me that if I canceled my contract prior to this coming November I would still be responsible for the $100 etf fee for both lines to recover the phone subsidy. I asked him to call customer service to verify because I was astounded, I mean what was the migration charge then? Anyway after spending an hour in the store with customer service all the way to customer retention. I was explained that I would still be held accountable for my contract duration even paying the migration and could potentially have to pay an etf... so I said that's ridiculous etf'd my lines and immediately signed up under the new rate plan there by eliminating the migration fee and showing the customer service rep on the line how idiotic he sounded trying to tell me I had to pay both. Problem solved, but I assure you your etf is separate from your migration fee...

Posted via CB10

[Got2GetAway]

First off, congratulation on your impending graduation!

From my understanding there were a number of Z10's returned as the earlier OS had some issues. You also might be right on the manager wanting to push one phone over another. I have talked to a few friends that work in stores (AT&T and VZW) and they are told to steer people to one kind of phone or another. I sure wouldn't be afraid to get it. Let us know how you like when you receive it.

I had a problem with my phone randomly rebooting and freezing at times. With me hooking up to blackberry link via usb to Windows PC, and reloading the OS I have had ZERO issues with this problem. Maybe some people just need to do a bit of research instead of assuming the product is completely bad. Maybe the OS didn't load properly. Plus, when have there ever been any Software to come out with zero bugs? I'd love to know. Just my opinion. Shame on that Sales Manager. A sale is a sale!

[dcbo89]

Its actually amazing the spectrum of reactions you get from the people who work in cell shops. I had someone tell me he couldn't compare the HTC One to the Z10 and that if I insisted on BlackBerry I should go for the Q10 because BB10 was not a touch screen optimized OS.

I've also had people praise the Q10 and Z10 without me even asking about it. You get all kinds.

[bhrgvr]

Congratulations. Here is the reason why many, many people are returning their Z10 to Tmobile. It is very simple. Tmobile started adding a "migration" fee of $100 to their bills in addition to the cost of the phone. The retail stores knew nothing about this and didn't tell the customers. So, when the bill arrives...."hello Tmobile, what's this $100 migration fee". It turns out there was a class action law suit that allows everyone to return the phone. I called tmobile and complained up the chain. It took awhile, but we finally came to a protracted agreement where my bill was credited for $50 and I received $5 off per month for 6 months despite being deceived. I had to balance my time versus cost. Tmobile had to swallow a used phone if I brought it back. It was a test of wills on Friday night.

As for the Z10, It is an investment that will hopefully appreciate as Blackberry improves the product. Let's all hope it goes faster than the Playbook.

Best advice to a graduate...buy an Apple iPhone to fit in with the rest of the sheep.

Why the he'll would someone want to charge a migration fee? Don't us customers have the right to choose what we want? They are caging us into an OS we don't like. This is like tying us to a lamppost for ever without even commiting a crime!!! What is this bull cap the carriers are doing? I am really disgusted at the carriers there in the USA...

The carriers here in India don't charge anything if I move from a BlackBerry to an iPhone or vice versa. We have free will...

Posted via CB10

[R Field]

Why the he'll would someone want to charge a migration fee? Don't us customers have the right to choose what we want? They are caging us into an OS we don't like. This is like tying us to a lamppost for ever without even commiting a crime!!! What is this bull cap the carriers are doing? I am really disgusted at the carriers there in the USA...

The carriers here in India don't charge anything if I move from a BlackBerry to an iPhone or vice versa. We have free will...

Posted via CB10

They're experts at nickel and dime charges in North America like (network connectivity fees, activation fees) etc. Rogers here in Canada isn't nicknamed robbers for nothing.

CB10- BlackBerry Z10

[RazzBerry]

Being a retail manager, all this talk of steering customers away from what they want just blows me away. A sale is a sale at the end of the day. I know, there's the commission factor, but if the person walks out with nothing, that's no sale at all.

I'm gonna have to disagree that all stores hold your opinion.
My local Verizon had no products on the shelf for my new Z and when I asked he said all were in the back and grudgingly went to the back to get me a holster to look at, that I did end up buying.
The number of Droid products, on the other hand, filled an entire wall. Over 45 choices in covers alone!
I also had to give him a quick walk-through on how to sell the Z and he knew nothing.
I was floored at all this!

[anon(153966)]

I was at lunch today and someone asked me what mobile I had. I stated that it was a BlackBerry. There response, "no way..." Without missing a beat I said, "Yes way..." Boom!

I wish the likes of T-Mobile would make a real effort to learn the OS.

[anon(153966)]

I'm gonna have to disagree that all stores hold your opinion.
My local Verizon had no products on the shelf for my new Z and when I asked he said all were in the back and grudgingly went to the back to get me a holster to look at, that I did end up buying.
The number of Droid products, on the other hand, filled an entire wall. Over 45 choices in covers alone!
I also had to give him a quick walk-through on how to sell the Z and he knew nothing.
I was floored at all this!

The T-Mobile shop in Acworth, GA I had to do the same thing on release day. Train the main sales person. I couldn't believe it...