05-09-13 07:40 AM
63 123
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  1. tstrike34's Avatar
    Good morning.

    For the first time since I received my Z10 March 29th, I did not incur a reboot. After talking to some friends on our BBM group chat (Golf), I think more now the reason behind at least the ST 100-4 reboots: Software Power Management.

    My theory suggests that when the Z10 is placed on a charger, the software is responsible for regulating the power consumption (both outgoing and incoming). In the use case of incoming power, a mechanism is trigger when power consumption becomes too great or there is an unusual power spike in the Z10 device. This in turn causes a reboot as the power management module in the OS panics (or in layman terms, acts as a circuit breaker). This prevents the Z10 unit from inadvertently being fried.

    To test my theory, I used a BB PB Charger, the supplied charger that came with the Z10, and the micro USB charger for connecting to a laptop.

    • Charged with the BB PB Charger - Reboot
    • Charged with the supplied charger - Reboot
    • Charged with the laptop/desktop - No reboot

    In each use case, I charged for well over 8 hours (sleep). Given the varying voltages in each use case, it is safe to say that voltage from being connected to a laptop is significantly lower than from a wall charger. I am thinking that would mean that the voltage flow for charging the Z10 is more even (lower for that matter) and does not trigger the "circuit breaker" module in the Z10.

    The question is this.... Does BB (and/or the Carrier) turn down the sensitivity of the "circuit breaker" module at risk of burning up a Z10 unit that uses a wall charger?

    Hmmmm...

    Anyone thinking this way?
    Mecca EL likes this.
    05-07-13 07:02 AM
  2. BigwhiteUK's Avatar
    No reboots here, I use both the supplied charger and the PB charger. STL100-2 running leaked OS

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 07:07 AM
  3. BigwhiteUK's Avatar
    Purchased it SIM free

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 07:08 AM
  4. BigwhiteUK's Avatar
    I do believe temperature may have something to do with it?

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 07:09 AM
  5. sayf777's Avatar
    I think he meant specifically stl 100-4..

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 07:12 AM
  6. BigwhiteUK's Avatar
    Why would it not apply to the 2 and 3?

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 07:14 AM
  7. moses2908's Avatar
    Got this from BlackBerry and they were right


    Thank you for contacting BlackBerry Technical Support.

    After reviewing the logs, the resets that are recorded in the logs appear
    to be normal resets by holding down the power button. You don't by
    chance have a case on the phone do you that would cover the cover button
    that may not be "Seated" correctly?

    If you require further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

    Thank you again for contacting us.

    Sincerely,

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 07:16 AM
  8. lwaysluking's Avatar
    Good morning.

    For the first time since I received my Z10 March 29th, I did not incur a reboot. After talking to some friends on our BBM group chat (Golf), I think more now the reason behind at least the ST 100-4 reboots: Software Power Management.

    My theory suggests that when the Z10 is placed on a charger, the software is responsible for regulating the power consumption (both outgoing and incoming). In the use case of incoming power, a mechanism is trigger when power consumption becomes too great or there is an unusual power spike in the Z10 device. This in turn causes a reboot as the power management module in the OS panics (or in layman terms, acts as a circuit breaker). This prevents the Z10 unit from inadvertently being fried.

    To test my theory, I used a BB PB Charger, the supplied charger that came with the Z10, and the micro USB charger for connecting to a laptop.

    • Charged with the BB PB Charger - Reboot
    • Charged with the supplied charger - Reboot
    • Charged with the laptop/desktop - No reboot

    In each use case, I charged for well over 8 hours (sleep). Given the varying voltages in each use case, it is safe to say that voltage from being connected to a laptop is significantly lower than from a wall charger. I am thinking that would mean that the voltage flow for charging the Z10 is more even (lower for that matter) and does not trigger the "circuit breaker" module in the Z10.

    The question is this.... Does BB (and/or the Carrier) turn down the sensitivity of the "circuit breaker" module at risk of burning up a Z10 unit that uses a wall charger?

    Hmmmm...

    Anyone thinking this way?
    An excellent observation. In my case, it's an STL100-3 with a RARE rebooting history- 3 times in 6 weeks, always when plugged in. But if any fellow "rebooters" have gone through reboot cycles without having their devices plugged in, it would weaken this theory.
    I suppose a power monitoring app would be needed to follow the timeline for a while to see if there are indeed cycles of excess power consumption/heat.
    05-07-13 07:23 AM
  9. Ironkidz's Avatar
    An excellent observation. In my case, it's an STL100-3 with a RARE rebooting history- 3 times in 6 weeks, always when plugged in. But if any fellow "rebooters" have gone through reboot cycles without having their devices plugged in, it would weaken this theory.
    Yes. I have a stl100-4 and after the latest leaked Os, I hardly had reboots until recently. They happen with no case, no charger, and no usage. Literally just sitting on my desk and suddenly the VZW logo pops up and the device reboots.

    Posted via CB10
    rocktua likes this.
    05-07-13 07:30 AM
  10. tstrike34's Avatar
    Even with the leak I have monitored this carefully and wrote notes. All signs point to my theory.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 07:51 AM
  11. jbizios's Avatar
    All of my reboots have occur at night when being charged. I use an electrical outlet with a USB socket and not the supplied wall wart (or any wall wart for that matter).

    During the day, I keep my phone holstered when not in use with a Blackberry magnet case that causes the phone to "sleep". However, I forgot my holster one day and so kept the phone on my desk or in my pocket. That day, I experienced about 3 reboots during the day. It was not on a charger.

    Keeping it holstered, for me at least, minimizes the reboots. BTW...running the Verizion flavored Z10 with the stock OS.
    05-07-13 08:09 AM
  12. scrannel's Avatar
    Nice theory but... now mine is 100-3, and I only recently began getting occasional reboots. But never happened while charging. If you want to get truly weird? I can expect one reboot in the morning, almost 8am on the dot. However, if I use the BBerry leather "interactive" case it will 100% not reboot until I finally remove from case.
    05-07-13 08:14 AM
  13. orgonebox's Avatar
    All of my reboots have occur at night when being charged. I use an electrical outlet with a USB socket and not the supplied wall wart (or any wall wart for that matter).

    During the day, I keep my phone holstered when not in use with a Blackberry magnet case that causes the phone to "sleep". However, I forgot my holster one day and so kept the phone on my desk or in my pocket. That day, I experienced about 3 reboots during the day. It was not on a charger.

    Keeping it holstered, for me at least, minimizes the reboots. BTW...running the Verizion flavored Z10 with the stock OS.
    It's a hardware issue. You should seek warranty replacement.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 08:25 AM
  14. jbizios's Avatar
    It's a hardware issue. You should seek warranty replacement.
    Perhaps, but assuming your right...what's the point of getting a warranty replacement if they still haven't figured out what the issue is?

    For now, with my usage pattern...the middle of the night reboot isn't an issue for me (in fact, I was always in the habit of rebooting my Bold each night as a matter of course...so the Z10 is doing it for me now "automatically" ).

    And the phone is stable enough during the day that I can live with it until a more definitive determination is made as to the exact cause.

    That actually is an additional data point...I have been turning the phone off at night lately and in the morning I find that it's been turned on (not always...but most of the time)...so the reboot on the wall charger, for me at least, occurs whether the phone is "active" or not.
    05-07-13 08:35 AM
  15. cbdwolff7's Avatar
    Perhaps, but assuming your right...what's the point of getting a warranty replacement if they still haven't figured out what the issue is?

    For now, with my usage pattern...the middle of the night reboot isn't an issue for me (in fact, I was always in the habit of rebooting my Bold each night as a matter of course...so the Z10 is doing it for me now "automatically" ).

    And the phone is stable enough during the day that I can live with it until a more definitive determination is made as to the exact cause.

    That actually is an additional data point...I have been turning the phone off at night lately and in the morning I find that it's been turned on (not always...but most of the time)...so the reboot on the wall charger, for me at least, occurs whether the phone is "active" or not.
    How does the phone turn itself on...? This is what I don't understand. Isn't that a physical thing with a switch. None of any other device I have owned when plugged in or not,.. when turned off would not turn itself back on. I just hope this all gets fixed. IMO
    05-07-13 08:50 AM
  16. Ironkidz's Avatar
    Even with the leak I have monitored this carefully and wrote notes. All signs point to my theory.

    Posted via CB10
    Maybe on the small sample size of devices you have sampled. But if you look in this thread there are accounts that debunk your theory.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 09:03 AM
  17. whitezee10's Avatar
    Im on stl100-2 and have not experienced this reboot.. and i dont wanna experience it.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 09:22 AM
  18. undone's Avatar
    Did you turn on the Diagnostics?

    I have had my device (st 100-4) reboot (since launch) 3 times. All three where off charger. My belief, it was some bit of software causing a panic state and the kernel rebooted itself.

    Charger reboots sound odd, you check the polarity of you outlets? Simple 5 dollar tester shows if your are wired properly. Over voltage at the outlet? Did you try it on a UPS to filter the power? If it was a charging issue I would think even the usb trickle charge would cause the issue, but maybe not since it would never peak with the same voltage.
    05-07-13 09:43 AM
  19. jbizios's Avatar
    How does the phone turn itself on...? This is what I don't understand. Isn't that a physical thing with a switch. None of any other device I have owned when plugged in or not,.. when turned off would not turn itself back on. I just hope this all gets fixed. IMO
    Not sure. I'm curious though if I'm the only one that experiences this...though I don't know how many others turn off the phone at night...because I wonder if it's a HW issue specific to my phone.
    05-07-13 09:56 AM
  20. tstrike34's Avatar
    Undone,

    I have tested my wall outlets in my home and computer lab.

    As for debunking my theory, I never experienced reboots whilst off charger, only on charger.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 09:57 AM
  21. Kayatoca's Avatar
    For a while, I had been getting daily reboots around 4am while on OEM wall chargers. Other reboots primarily were during usage of various apps, the Hub, BB world, once when just swiping on the app directory. Also had a few when playing music in the car on charger. If it was a mysterious software issue, why can't it just shut the offending app down instead of crashing the phone? In this whole debate of software vs hardware, that's what I don't get.
    05-07-13 10:09 AM
  22. tstrike34's Avatar
    Kay,

    It's a device saving function so it doesn't crash the phone, it resets it to prevent adverse conditions



    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 10:12 AM
  23. DetlevCM's Avatar
    Well for me (100-2) the reboots appeared out of nowhere and went away after a wipe - plus the leaked OS is stable for me too.
    (Actually reboots started when I began using an SD card)

    I have noticed that Link on USB 3.0 will lead to a reboot on my desktop for some reason. When I did have reboots they also occurred without a power supply plugged in.

    The reasoning by the OP also cannot work - voltage via USB is 5V, the only difference is the maximum current (unless you have power surges but that would more likely fry the phone).
    That does not mean that power management is not to blame, however the reasoning does not stand up to closer analysis.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 10:14 AM
  24. jakartadogdown's Avatar
    me no reboot here.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 10:17 AM
  25. ralfyguy's Avatar
    For a while, I had been getting daily reboots around 4am while on OEM wall chargers. Other reboots primarily were during usage of various apps, the Hub, BB world, once when just swiping on the app directory. Also had a few when playing music in the car on charger. If it was a mysterious software issue, why can't it just shut the offending app down instead of crashing the phone? In this whole debate of software vs hardware, that's what I don't get.
    That's what I was thinking as well, because I remember a while back how the QNX Micro Kernel system was praised and advertised as supposed to be able to avoid just exactly that. The drum was stirred about that this QNX was supposed to detect offending processes, kill them and restart them, NOT crash the whole system via reboot. That was the whole idea. For now it seems more like that this QNX system does the opposite and crashes whenever there is the slightest thing it doesn't like. And the fact that there still seems to be no rhyme or reason, it is almost like it has frequent PMS...

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 10:18 AM
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