05-01-13 04:49 PM
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  1. f_d's Avatar
    Wow... Because the amperage of one charger is 2x as much as another automatically means the device is built/rated to handle the increased amperage of the second charger and therefor will charge twice as much with no issue?
    I have been working in the IT field long enough to know one should never assume something like this as this is how devices and/or batteries get ruined.
    NO, actually that's not the case... The amperage rating on the "wall wart" is *NOT* automatically what the device will receive.. There are two ratings specified on the bottom of the unit: voltage and current. Voltage is the the pressure coming out of a water hose, and that is usually a fixed amount: 5 volts. Current is really how much water can flow, which is generally related to the size of the pipe, and rating on the unit is actually the maximum current that it can supply. What does this mean? Well technically, the wall wart unit (and there's a reason I'm calling it this), is *NOT* the charger (or at least not *all* of the charger).. Because modern battery technologies are so sensitive to charge rate, overheating, etc, you cannot just plug a power source onto the ends of the battery like you used to with your car battery or the older technology battery packs.. With lithium batteries in particular, you need a bit of additional technology between the power source (wall wart) and the battery, and that is the charging circuit that is built onto the phone's motherboard. This little circuit detects what type of power source you have (how much maximum current it can provide), measures how much charge is currently in the battery, its temperature and controls how much current is provided to the battery for charging..

    Depending on the application of the device, the battery chemistry and other design choices, the engineers behind the charging circuitry will choose different charging parameters that can make what the battery sees entirely different and independent of what the "wall wart" ratings say.. For example, if you wanted the longest battery life, you would monitor the charge status and temperature, and you generally would *not* charge until the battery was below 95% level, or over 40C in temperature, and when you did charge, you would only provide the battery a very small amount of current (again, even if the wall wart was rated to provide 1000A max, the charging circuitry only gives the battery a few hundred milliamps), and would start reducing that amount as the battery charge level started to approach 100% or as the temperature started increasing.. How does it do this? There are a number of methods, but most charging circuits work by simply turning the voltage on and off rapidly: if you just connected a power source to a battery, the battery would generally draw current as fast as it can, so if you just connect it up very briefly and then disconnect, the average current over time is actually much lower, the greater percentage of time the battery remains connected, the higher the effective charge rate, up to the capacity of the power source (ie, if you use the standard charger, it doesn't matter if the circuitry leaves the power connected to the battery for longer periods, you can only ever blast 750mA at the battery because the wall wart can't give you any more).

    That's great for battery longevity, but it would also take you 12-24 hours to recharge your battery, which is generally NOT an acceptable choice for portable electronic devices, where you want the thing to recharge quickly to minimize downtime.. In such a case, you might decide to dump as much current as the circuitry, battery or wall wart (which ever has the smallest rating determines the limit: if the circuitry can only handle 2 amps, then it doesn't matter if the wall wart can provide up to 1000A, it will only ever draw 2 amps max; similarly if the battery cell can only safely handle a charge rate of 1C, then for the Z10's 1800mAh battery, the maximum current draw possible would be 1.8A, and in this situation, where the circuitry can handle 2A, but the battery can only handle 1.8A, you'd set the parameters so that the smallest number: 1.8A is the maximum it will ever draw). If you chose to use the conventional adapter vs. the Playbook adapter, then the power source rating is the limiting factor, and in this case, as described above, you will only ever draw 750 mA, even though the battery can safely handle 1.8A and the charging circuitry may be able to do even more..

    So, by understanding the physical and safety limitations of the battery and other components and by actively monitoring voltages and current as the circuit charges, designers can pick a charging program the balances quickness of charge with longevity of battery.. If you have an application like BatteryGuru, you can actually see how the Z10 charges: when your battery is empty, it will try to dump as much current into the battery as the battery and your power source can provide (so 750 mA for the standard charger, and 1.8A for the PlayBook charger) while monitoring both the charge level and temperature. If the temperature level increases too much, the Z10 circuitry will reduce the amount of current it's giving to the battery (by reducing the amount of time that the battery is connected to the power supply), slowing the charging rate and letting the temperature come back down; similarly, as the battery approaches 100%, the charging rate is also slowed down- this results in a "fuller" battery charge. The gist is that no matter what the wall wart may say, the charging program in the Z10 circuitry is really what controls how much current the battery will see, so you can safely plug in any micro-USB source (as long as it is recognized by the Z10), and the Z10's program will limit the charging rate to whatever is safe for the battery given its temperature and state of charge.. If you'd like a slightly longer time between having to buy a new battery and you can live with a taking a longer time to charge, then you can stick with the conventional wall wart, but if you don't mind buying new batteries more often when they wear out due to faster charging, then you can use the Playbook or other "high rate" charger, confident in the fact that it's the circuitry in the Z10 and the charging program that will prevent unsafe charging conditions.
    05-01-13 02:10 PM
  2. GiantSchnauzer's Avatar
    Nice post, just imagine how much I would have to scroll if this was on a Q10! Lol. So as op just put our little explanations all together in an comprehensive answer. Bottom line thread is done and question is answered. Faster or slower charging, phone don't care, just as in life, living in the fast lane will although have an effect on the battery. However minimal that is is dependent on how you look at it. I for one couldn't care less if my phones battery last I hour shorter after a few months, I gladly trade it in for having a half chewed battery after 1 hour of charging. Ce la vie..

    Z10 Flavour since 12.2.13
    05-01-13 02:23 PM
  3. GiantSchnauzer's Avatar
    Or just to add one more thing. If you want to make sure tour battery is charged amazing, use one of those expensive computer chargers we used to use with rc car racing... Hmmm brings back memories


    Z10 Flavour since 12.2.13
    05-01-13 02:26 PM
  4. imcurved's Avatar
    This is awesome. Could you take a picture and post it? I'd like to see how it looks. Thanks.
    I used the kitchen outlet (has a 2.1amp usb port on it) Charged my z10 to full in ~20 minutes. I just try and plug mine into a standard one while I sleep.
    05-01-13 02:33 PM
  5. imcurved's Avatar
    Me too. I only use PlayBook charger for all my BlackBerry devices.
    Been using my PlayBook charger for my Z10 since day one. The charger that came with my Z10 is still in the box. NO problems
    05-01-13 02:35 PM
  6. imcurved's Avatar
    Perhaps, the PB charger is more expensive than the regular charger and it's not cost effective for BlackBerry in term of pricing...

    Yes, but keep in mind that this is purely based on the fact that the PB charger is higher output. I believe that's normal when you "power charge" a device that the battery suffers a bit. It's more strain in the long run. It's great for a fast charge, but there's a reason the Z didn't come with a PB style charger
    05-01-13 02:40 PM
  7. imcurved's Avatar
    @f_d, who are you? a physicist? Kidding aside. Thanks for the informative post. So the moral of the story is that place your phone in a cool place while charging it.
    05-01-13 02:50 PM
  8. thatplaybookguy's Avatar
    Ok - While I see people saying the rapid charger can be used as a charger, I haven't seen anyone come out and say if it will charge the Z10 rapidly. USB cable and charging dongle that came with the Z10 isn't exactly the fastest charger out there, so if there is one that charges the Z10 super fast (and safely) then I am all over that.
    So is there a way to rapid charge the Z10?

    Sorry if I am being dense and not seeing that this has been addressed.
    i use the PB charger a good amount of the times that I need to charge up my z10 quickly, and it does a fantastic job. 2 hours or less and its fully charged. I also use it to charge the charger bundle in tandem with my Zormtrooper, charges that and z10 in three and a half hours.
    05-01-13 03:03 PM
  9. vgorous's Avatar
    NO, actually that's not the case... The amperage rating on the "wall wart" is *NOT* automatically what the device will receive.. There are two ratings specified on the bottom of the unit: voltage and current. Voltage is the the pressure coming out of a water hose, and that is usually a fixed amount: 5 volts. Current is really how much water can flow, which is generally related to the size of the pipe, and rating on the unit is actually the maximum current that it can supply. What does this mean? Well technically, the wall wart unit (and there's a reason I'm calling it this), is *NOT* the charger (or at least not *all* of the charger).. Because modern battery technologies are so sensitive to charge rate, overheating, etc, you cannot just plug a power source onto the ends of the battery like you used to with your car battery or the older technology battery packs.. With lithium batteries in particular, you need a bit of additional technology between the power source (wall wart) and the battery, and that is the charging circuit that is built onto the phone's motherboard. This little circuit detects what type of power source you have (how much maximum current it can provide), measures how much charge is currently in the battery, its temperature and controls how much current is provided to the battery for charging..

    Depending on the application of the device, the battery chemistry and other design choices, the engineers behind the charging circuitry will choose different charging parameters that can make what the battery sees entirely different and independent of what the "wall wart" ratings say.. For example, if you wanted the longest battery life, you would monitor the charge status and temperature, and you generally would *not* charge until the battery was below 95% level, or over 40C in temperature, and when you did charge, you would only provide the battery a very small amount of current (again, even if the wall wart was rated to provide 1000A max, the charging circuitry only gives the battery a few hundred milliamps), and would start reducing that amount as the battery charge level started to approach 100% or as the temperature started increasing.. How does it do this? There are a number of methods, but most charging circuits work by simply turning the voltage on and off rapidly: if you just connected a power source to a battery, the battery would generally draw current as fast as it can, so if you just connect it up very briefly and then disconnect, the average current over time is actually much lower, the greater percentage of time the battery remains connected, the higher the effective charge rate, up to the capacity of the power source (ie, if you use the standard charger, it doesn't matter if the circuitry leaves the power connected to the battery for longer periods, you can only ever blast 750mA at the battery because the wall wart can't give you any more).

    That's great for battery longevity, but it would also take you 12-24 hours to recharge your battery, which is generally NOT an acceptable choice for portable electronic devices, where you want the thing to recharge quickly to minimize downtime.. In such a case, you might decide to dump as much current as the circuitry, battery or wall wart (which ever has the smallest rating determines the limit: if the circuitry can only handle 2 amps, then it doesn't matter if the wall wart can provide up to 1000A, it will only ever draw 2 amps max; similarly if the battery cell can only safely handle a charge rate of 1C, then for the Z10's 1800mAh battery, the maximum current draw possible would be 1.8A, and in this situation, where the circuitry can handle 2A, but the battery can only handle 1.8A, you'd set the parameters so that the smallest number: 1.8A is the maximum it will ever draw). If you chose to use the conventional adapter vs. the Playbook adapter, then the power source rating is the limiting factor, and in this case, as described above, you will only ever draw 750 mA, even though the battery can safely handle 1.8A and the charging circuitry may be able to do even more..

    So, by understanding the physical and safety limitations of the battery and other components and by actively monitoring voltages and current as the circuit charges, designers can pick a charging program the balances quickness of charge with longevity of battery.. If you have an application like BatteryGuru, you can actually see how the Z10 charges: when your battery is empty, it will try to dump as much current into the battery as the battery and your power source can provide (so 750 mA for the standard charger, and 1.8A for the PlayBook charger) while monitoring both the charge level and temperature. If the temperature level increases too much, the Z10 circuitry will reduce the amount of current it's giving to the battery (by reducing the amount of time that the battery is connected to the power supply), slowing the charging rate and letting the temperature come back down; similarly, as the battery approaches 100%, the charging rate is also slowed down- this results in a "fuller" battery charge. The gist is that no matter what the wall wart may say, the charging program in the Z10 circuitry is really what controls how much current the battery will see, so you can safely plug in any micro-USB source (as long as it is recognized by the Z10), and the Z10's program will limit the charging rate to whatever is safe for the battery given its temperature and state of charge.. If you'd like a slightly longer time between having to buy a new battery and you can live with a taking a longer time to charge, then you can stick with the conventional wall wart, but if you don't mind buying new batteries more often when they wear out due to faster charging, then you can use the Playbook or other "high rate" charger, confident in the fact that it's the circuitry in the Z10 and the charging program that will prevent unsafe charging conditions.
    My hypothesis was correct.

    Posted via CB10
    05-01-13 03:09 PM
  10. GiantSchnauzer's Avatar
    About the PlayBook charger, just came by a super sale bin with PlayBook accessories here. All kinds of PlayBook stuff I wanted to buy when liking for it but could never find like gel skills etc. All going for dirt cheap as nobody cares about the PlayBook here anymore. Guess they where clearing out some very old lost stick Some PlayBook chargers where in the as well. I weet when I saw that. .

    Z10 Flavour since 12.2.13
    05-01-13 04:49 PM
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