07-13-15 07:38 AM
193 12345 ...
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  1. agp101's Avatar
    And with all due respect.. Users still on pop email should really consider switching to imap or active sync. POP is fast becoming legacy technology and it has many down sides to it, like the lack of push! POP email does not do push! And no, you don't need a gmail account to get off pop.

    Unless there's a good reason you're staying on pop, it's time to move on. No one ever pushed pop other than bb. Not other smartphones, not even desktop pc email clients.. Because pop does not support push. BB has been pushing pop but it's time to move on.. It is incredibly inefficient technology that uses significantly more battery power to use if you want to poll for emails every 5 minutes. You want pop and stick with old bb. You want to move to newer and better technology like the z10, either improve your email setup or live in the past. There's a good reason bb took this direction.. They look to the future and the z10 supports modern technology. POP email never supported push in its own technology, and this minority of users are the only ones being affected.

    As it stands, it looks like no one is pushing pop anymore.. Clue: legacy tech. Clue: only found in legacy bb. Clue: adopt a new email system.
    03-23-13 11:20 AM
  2. Vijik's Avatar
    Take a look at this post that nicely explains why some have instant Push using IMAP IDLE and why some don't:


    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post8168086
    03-23-13 11:22 AM
  3. agp101's Avatar
    Please provide the steps to set up push email for an account on a POP server.
    There aren't any steps EVER to push pop.
    And how do you know that RIM's bis would push instantly? Odds are it would "poll" your inbox every now and then and then "push" whatever it polled to your device. Never thought about it that way did you? I doubt it was "instant". I think maybe you are under the impression it is though. It did work faster and more efficiently than polling from the device, but it will always be a delay, even if it's small. BB was making up for limited email technology.
    03-23-13 11:25 AM
  4. LazyEvul's Avatar
    If you guys on POP are fine with spending some extra money on BIS, why not spend that money on a better email service instead? Microsoft can set you up with an Exchange email using your personal domain for $4/month, and for that money you get arguably the best push protocol in the industry - ActiveSync. And for those of you who don't need a personal domain, the free Outlook.com email service comes with ActiveSync as well.
    allstar0088 likes this.
    03-23-13 11:27 AM
  5. tropicscouser's Avatar
    I been using the Z10 for the past 1 week (no contract) and use it to replace my 9900. I brought my Z10 to Indonesia and when my colleague send an email me across the table, I received it instantly. So I think without BIS, the email would still function perfectly. I was able to synch with my google contact instantly after the set up but Calendar takes a few tries. The biggest problem is the international roaming charge. With Blackberry service, we pay S$72 for unlimited data even when we travel internationally but must log on with the Alliance Bridge service provider to get the free data service. The new Z10 does not tag the Blackberry Service and hence all the data roaming when I was in Indonesia is charge on international roaming charges. The bill was like S$2000 for 2 days... Luckly Singtel waive the international roaming charges as long as I buy the S$15 international unlimited roaming service. This is the different. I used to pay S$72 for unlimited international roaming for my emailn, BBM, and other BB services. But now I must pay about $400 a month ($15/day for SEA, $20 for China, and S$30 for UK and USA). As I travel on weekday, I must apply the international unlimited roaming on MANUAL basis before I go.. very inconvinience.
    Exactly my thoughts.

    The original article is entirely correct and I don't understand why people here are dissing it.

    I'm a BB9900 user and the ONLY reason why I use blackberry is because of

    1) Push mail technology
    2) BB Data compression
    3) Unlimited international data usage plan

    And guess what? My carrier Singtel told me that Z10 will no longer support the above and I will have to pay MUCH more for international roaming like any other phone i.e iphone, android.

    So Blackberry has effectively killed the very reasons why I chose them in the first place - and mind you, I have been a loyal BB customer for the past 10 years.

    But with the major change, it will be a game changer and there will be no compelling reason for me to stick to BB anymore.

    Till today, nobody has convinced me why I should stay on with Blackberry. And don't give me the reason that I should stick with a BB just because I have been a BB user for the past decade.

    Someone please convince me otherwise.
    03-23-13 11:28 AM
  6. paulinVA's Avatar
    There aren't any steps EVER to push pop.
    And how do you know that RIM's bis would push instantly? Odds are it would "poll" your inbox every now and then and then "push" whatever it polled to your device. Never thought about it that way did you? I doubt it was "instant". I think maybe you are under the impression it is though. It did work faster and more efficiently than polling from the device, but it will always be a delay, even if it's small. BB was making up for limited email technology.
    BIS checks the account when it is set up.
    BIS doesn't find email.
    BIS checks back in 15 minutes.
    BIS finds email.
    BIS compresses and sends email to the handheld. (first 2kb of the email)
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesn't find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS finds email.
    BIS compresses and sends email to the handheld. (first 2kb of the email)
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesn't find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 15 minutes.
    and so on and so forth.

    This is probably why 15 minutes is the most frequent interval that can be set on the Z10 - the product managers looked at BIS instead of Android and iPhone intervals.

    AND, checking every 15 minutes is PULL not PUSH.
    03-23-13 11:37 AM
  7. nic01's Avatar
    I've got the 1st batch of Z-10 from Singtel and I can tell you that the email are coming in as usual. I have 4 email setup on my Z-10. 2 business email of which 1 is a Korea server. 1 aol and 1 gmail. I tested them by sending to one another. No problem.
    Omnitech and Simon Ng like this.
    03-23-13 11:39 AM
  8. Signhere's Avatar
    I just emailed myself and it took 5 painful seconds. Peice a junk, I'm going to buy an iphone. Pffftt.


    Posted via CB10
    03-23-13 11:39 AM
  9. Vijik's Avatar
    BIS checks the account when it is set up.
    BIS doesn't find email.
    BIS checks back in 15 minutes.
    BIS finds email.
    BIS compresses and sends email to the handheld. (first 2kb of the email)
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesn't find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS finds email.
    BIS compresses and sends email to the handheld. (first 2kb of the email)
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesn't find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 15 minutes.
    and so on and so forth.

    This is probably why 15 minutes is the most frequent interval that can be set on the Z10 - the product managers looked at BIS instead of Android and iPhone intervals.

    AND, checking every 15 minutes is PULL not PUSH.
    This is the BIS server pulling not the handheld. Are you aware of that?
    agp101 likes this.
    03-23-13 11:51 AM
  10. Vijik's Avatar
    I've got the 1st batch of Z-10 from Singtel and I can tell you that the email are coming in as usual. I have 4 email setup on my Z-10. 2 business email of which 1 is a Korea server. 1 aol and 1 gmail. I tested them by sending to one another. No problem.
    %50 of the BB Z10 buyers had other smart phones (iPhone, Android, etc) in Canada and UK.

    Now iPhone's and Samsung's (paid and others) fan fighting back by spreading lies about BB 10.

    Push does work on BB10.
    03-23-13 11:56 AM
  11. nic01's Avatar
    I also have a Torch 9810 which i uses wth my Indonesia Indosat sim card (big one). But when i return to Indonesia (yesterday), I had it cut to the mini size so it would fit in my Z-10 which I gotten from Singtel.

    No problem, put in my just cut mini sim Indosat card and bingo it works on my Z-10.

    Message: Keep your BIS plan as it works on the Z-10.
    Simon Ng likes this.
    03-23-13 11:57 AM
  12. paulinVA's Avatar
    This is the BIS server pulling not the handheld. Are you aware of that?
    Are you aware that in the Z10 BIS is not involved in the polling for email?

    The 15 minutes I was referring to is the most frequent polling interval that can be set on a POP account for a BB10 device.
    03-23-13 12:02 PM
  13. retomex's Avatar
    All articles with this kind of info are just bashing blackberry. iOS and android rely solely on data plans and advertise this as an advantage. I'm a BIS user and have 2 pop accounts, 2 more can be set to EAS and another 2 imap. I fell I kinda gonna miss push, but I'll survive with 15min polling for my 2 pop accounts.

    The feature I'll miss more from BIS are international roaming charges such as the ones on Telcel (Mexico); I can actually have BIS roaming for $3.90 usd a day or $43.10 usd a full month so a 4 day trip ends on the 'cheap' side and not worrying about hitting a wifi hotspot everywhere I go. Now I'll have to be careful because data roaming is more expensive and has to be ordered for the full month and worry about finding free wifi and its consequences.

    Moving on to Z10 next week!
    03-23-13 12:13 PM
  14. Vijik's Avatar
    Are you aware that in the Z10 BIS is not involved in the polling for email?

    The 15 minutes I was referring to is the most frequent polling interval that can be set on a POP account for a BB10 device.
    Are you aware that Z10 can be on BIS or BES if you want to?

    You were not clear that you were talking about POP account.

    Push for IMAP and ActiveSync accounts work fine on Z10 without BIS or BES.
    03-23-13 12:17 PM
  15. paulinVA's Avatar
    Are you aware that Z10 can be on BIS or BES if you want to?

    You were not clear that you were talking about POP account.

    Push for IMAP and ActiveSync accounts work fine on Z10 without BIS or BES.
    Uhm, I don't think a Z10 can be configured to use BIS, can it?
    03-23-13 12:20 PM
  16. Vijik's Avatar
    Uhm, I don't think a Z10 can be configured to use BIS, can it?
    If your carrier support BIS for BB10, the Z10 and the platform is capable of working with BIS as well as BES.
    03-23-13 12:27 PM
  17. agp101's Avatar
    BIS checks the account when it is set up.
    BIS doesn't find email.
    BIS checks back in 15 minutes.
    BIS finds email.
    BIS compresses and sends email to the handheld. (first 2kb of the email)
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesn't find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS finds email.
    BIS compresses and sends email to the handheld. (first 2kb of the email)
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesn't find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 3 minutes.
    BIS doesnt find mail.
    BIS checks back for mail in 15 minutes.
    and so on and so forth.

    This is probably why 15 minutes is the most frequent interval that can be set on the Z10 - the product managers looked at BIS instead of Android and iPhone intervals.

    AND, checking every 15 minutes is PULL not PUSH.
    thanks.. you're a genius! Really..

    So as I said, 15 min interval is pull, not push. You read my post correctly, nice.
    Then, you mention how bis "Polls " in other words "Pulls" emails every 3 minutes. Congrats, you're onto something..
    Eventually, you mention how bis "Pushes" pulled emails to your device. So it pulls then it pushes? Correct, as I stated in my post..

    So you see, pop was never push. It was really just pull every 5 minutes.

    Imap and active sync are not push.. not in the pure sense of the word. No.. they are actually "Sync" services.. which are much better than push. push means every once in a while emails are pushed to your device which itself implies it is not instant. Unfortunately most consumers think instant emails is called push and so the tech world uses that term but it's a misconception. Today's emails sync not push. Much better.

    Clueless consumers...



    Posted via CB10
    03-23-13 12:33 PM
  18. fast666's Avatar
    I have yahoo and Gmail accounts. For Yahoo BlackBerry uses rim.imap.mail.yahoo.com and takes minutes to deliver. Gmail uses its own imap.gmail.com and its instantaneous. With my BlackBerry Torch Yahoo was good because of BIS. Now I will replace yahoo with Gmail. I guess that's what other people need to do. BlackBerry should educate people in this regard.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-13 12:33 PM
  19. koolaje's Avatar
    Without BIS, you are no longer tied to the Blackberry network, are you? That means no more multi-day outages, I hope.

    My business uses pop mail hosted by XO. The Z10 only checks it every 15 minutes at the most frequent setting. That is not acceptable.
    You are correct about no more multi-day outages. Please ask your email provider if they support IMAP as if you use IMAP instead of POP than Push Email is supported and email will be pushed to your device.

    Are you aware that Z10 can be on BIS or BES if you want to?
    Nope, unless your BIS plan includes Internet Data (Limited or Unlimited) which would mean you'll still be connected, but your Z10 will not use the BIS plan in your network (So No POP3 Push Emails to Device), so what's the point of paying for the BIS portion? Find an internet plan that works for you.
    03-23-13 12:34 PM
  20. agp101's Avatar
    Are you aware that in the Z10 BIS is not involved in the polling for email?

    The 15 minutes I was referring to is the most frequent polling interval that can be set on a POP account for a BB10 device.
    A more frequent setting than 15 minutes will kill your battery. There's a reason they excluded it.. Thank goodness or else clueless legacy consumers would be complaining left and right about their batteries.

    Also, the z10 also only polls for emails with legacy pop. Everything other email standard is an efficient "Sync". It really is SO much better.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-13 12:41 PM
  21. bobauckland's Avatar
    You can't tell people to change what they were using, and what was working
    before.
    Polling through BIS would have involved BIS polling, so the battery life would not be affected.
    ActiveSync is nowhere near as reliable or efficient as BIS, for contacts Calendar or Email, which is what we used to tell everyone when we had BIS, remember?
    03-23-13 01:00 PM
  22. agp101's Avatar
    You can't tell people to change what they were using, and what was working
    before.
    Polling through BIS would have involved BIS polling, so the battery life would not be affected.
    ActiveSync is nowhere near as reliable or efficient as BIS, for contacts Calendar or Email, which is what we used to tell everyone when we had BIS, remember?
    Speak for yourself, I prefer active sync. It's modern and works well, and it's not like bis doesn't have its disadvantages (please). I guess by the same logic, you can't tell BlackBerry to change what they're using if they're set on email syncing standards. Truth is with time pop will not exist. It's not like pop doesn't exist on Bb10.. You'll get your pop but damn, if you can't deal with pop's disadvantages, their problem not mine.

    Posted via CB10
    03-23-13 01:53 PM
  23. paulinVA's Avatar
    A more frequent setting than 15 minutes will kill your battery. There's a reason they excluded it.. Thank goodness or else clueless legacy consumers would be complaining left and right about their batteries.

    Also, the z10 also only polls for emails with legacy pop. Everything other email standard is an efficient "Sync". It really is SO much better.

    Posted via CB10
    That's funny - my Nexus 7 works just fine polling every five minutes.

    I am not a clueless legacy customer. I am someone who thinks that Blackberry just showed up to a gunfight with a knife.

    You have correctly summed up the issue that will ultimately kill Blackberry. Their view is that you have to change your corporate email provider to one that supports ActiveSync for their new phones to work. By removing the BIS option, they have removed their key differentiator in the market. Without that, they are not even going to give Windows8 a run for it's money.

    I say that as someone who has had BlackBerries for years, bought every new phone the day it came out. I've waited for months for the Z10. The BB Hub is great, but if it doesn't get populated except for four times an hour, it's not worth much.
    03-23-13 01:56 PM
  24. bobauckland's Avatar
    Speak for yourself, I prefer active sync. It's modern and works well, and it's not like bis doesn't have its disadvantages (please). I guess by the same logic, you can't tell BlackBerry to change what they're using if they're set on email syncing standards. Truth is with time pop will not exist. It's not like pop doesn't exist on Bb10.. You'll get your pop but damn, if you can't deal with pop's disadvantages, their problem not mine.

    Posted via CB10
    Just because you prefer it doesn't make it better, or what everyone wants.
    And it certainly doesn't mean people should give up what they're comfortable with.

    Despite ActiveSync being popular, I've never seen it implemented quite as badly as on the Z10, with email problems, contact problems, awful contact syncing, and time limitations.
    Good luck selling this as better than anything else.

    Maybe with updates, but not today.
    03-23-13 02:14 PM
  25. southlander's Avatar
    Lol. the headline says no more push email, but the article complains about BIS. not the same. the author should have followed some crackberry threads before writing that article.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk 2
    03-23-13 02:29 PM
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