[Thud Hardsmack]

So true but it took until like BB10 10.2.1 for email to match BBOS 7.1 and earlier.

That was practically a year after launch, too. Im suddenly wondering if they were waiting to see if they even needed to bother with ironing out the rough edges if they’d gotten bought.

[Chuck Finley69]

I think that was one of the contributing factors to BB10’s failure, as far as I can remember even the latest release still didn’t include an auto BCC feature for sent emails.

I remember it being a big shock the number of compromises I needed to make when I switched from BBOS 7.1 to BB10, how wrong was I to think BB10 would be a step forward when I took the plunge way back in 2013!

It did mature quite well but still, at launch it was a mess and first impressions really count particularly with a new OS!

Sometime between 10.2.1 and 10.3.2 it finally included the ability to auto BCC somehow. I think it had to be enabled in the settings area somewhere…

[Chuck Finley69]

That was practically a year after launch, too. Im suddenly wondering if they were waiting to see if they even needed to bother with ironing out the rough edges if they’d gotten bought.

It would be fixed with OPM since BB was quickly running out….

[m3ach]

Sometime between 10.2.1 and 10.3.2 it finally included the ability to auto BCC somehow. I think it had to be enabled in the settings area somewhere…

Er, not that I can find, if it’s in there BlackBerry hid it really well!

[spARTacus]

That was practically a year after launch, too. Im suddenly wondering if they were waiting to see if they even needed to bother with ironing out the rough edges if they’d gotten bought.

Back then they were hoping to be bought?

[Chuck Finley69]

Back then they were hoping to be bought?

That’s how much an epic failure BB10 was from a development cost and negative cash flow standpoint. When BB10 was finally introduced with Z10 at beginning of 2013, it wasn’t quite ready but had already been delayed by a year. Within a few short months, the overwhelming returns and lack of sales had done nothing to stem the negative cash flow. BlackBerry Limited was shopped around for sale since it’s cash level had gotten so low it was in danger of violating lending covenants and filing bankruptcy.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

That’s how much an epic failure BB10 was from a development cost and negative cash flow standpoint. When BB10 was finally introduced with Z10 at beginning of 2013, it wasn’t quite ready but had already been delayed by a year. Within a few short months, the overwhelming returns and lack of sales had done nothing to stem the negative cash flow. BlackBerry Limited was shopped around for sale since it’s cash level had gotten so low it was in danger of violating lending covenants and filing bankruptcy.

Knowing what we know now..... I'm not sure what Mike and Jim were really thinking buying QNX and expecting to have a fully operational OS with it's own ecosystem in just two years - ended up taking four to get the OS part. PlayBook should have been a huge hint for them... which is was, as they jumped ship before BB10 managed to belly flop onto the market. Like the PlayBook it was missing much of what BlackBerry users expected and most of what other platforms had.

In the end I wonder if they really expected QNX to save them or if they were just going through the motions....

[EFats]

Many people complain about what BB10 and Playbook was missing, but these were mostly just apps and some 'nice' features. Even the original Playbook with its webmail was just fine (in my opinion). What people missed is that the OS itself was generally stable and complete.
I struggle to recall the last time this 'dead' OS crashed or did something unexpectedly bad, even in the early days.

In contrast, even as Windows Mobile 10 started its last year of life, it was buggy enough to be almost unusable. The last year of updates brought substantial improvements, but it still has odd glitches which force me to reboot the phone (these are not app related, stupid stuff like cellular data not taking effect, buttons failing to respond, etc)
Even iOS 15, this has stupid glitches in the basic apps (like the browser) and having to manage a plethora of iDevices in the family highlights all sorts of basic OS bugs & issues which never gets much press mention.

[Chuck Finley69]

Many people complain about what BB10 and Playbook was missing, but these were mostly just apps and some 'nice' features. Even the original Playbook with its webmail was just fine (in my opinion). What people missed is that the OS itself was generally stable and complete.
I struggle to recall the last time this 'dead' OS crashed or did something unexpectedly bad, even in the early days.

In contrast, even as Windows Mobile 10 started its last year of life, it was buggy enough to be almost unusable. The last year of updates brought substantial improvements, but it still has odd glitches which force me to reboot the phone (these are not app related, stupid stuff like cellular data not taking effect, buttons failing to respond, etc)
Even iOS 15, this has stupid glitches in the basic apps (like the browser) and having to manage a plethora of iDevices in the family highlights all sorts of basic OS bugs & issues which never gets much press mention.

Modern OS that are constantly being developed are by nature of active development itself are “buggy” and need updates to fix security and bugs. It’s just the nature of constant tinkering whether Android, ChromeOS, iOS, MacOS and Windows if you think about it. The only thing with BBOS and BB10 as well as the Playbook OS for being stable was that development stopped. Once stopped, things still break and don’t get fixed, security isn’t maintained and usability declines since developers quit supporting improvements and updated protocols. Like security through obscurity, stability wasn’t due to a better OS but simply lack of improvements leading to declining usage in a downward spiral.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Many people complain about what BB10 and Playbook was missing, but these were mostly just apps and some 'nice' features. Even the original Playbook with its webmail was just fine (in my opinion). What people missed is that the OS itself was generally stable and complete.
I struggle to recall the last time this 'dead' OS crashed or did something unexpectedly bad, even in the early days.

In contrast, even as Windows Mobile 10 started its last year of life, it was buggy enough to be almost unusable. The last year of updates brought substantial improvements, but it still has odd glitches which force me to reboot the phone (these are not app related, stupid stuff like cellular data not taking effect, buttons failing to respond, etc)
Even iOS 15, this has stupid glitches in the basic apps (like the browser) and having to manage a plethora of iDevices in the family highlights all sorts of basic OS bugs & issues which never gets much press mention.

BB10.2 was pretty solid, but at launch BB10 was a mess.... if only I had used the rebooting to trade in my Z10 for something else.

While I agree it's stable now it's also static... if BB10 had moved forward and added new features and kept up with security patches, you would have seen more bugs in it as well.

Nothing magical about QNX or BB10. I do admit that BlackBerry's focuses on communications and the way HUB was part of the OS was really nice. But that was a design choice....

[conite]

Many people complain about what BB10 and Playbook was missing, but these were mostly just apps and some 'nice' features. Even the original Playbook with its webmail was just fine (in my opinion). What people missed is that the OS itself was generally stable and complete.
I struggle to recall the last time this 'dead' OS crashed or did something unexpectedly bad, even in the early days.

In contrast, even as Windows Mobile 10 started its last year of life, it was buggy enough to be almost unusable. The last year of updates brought substantial improvements, but it still has odd glitches which force me to reboot the phone (these are not app related, stupid stuff like cellular data not taking effect, buttons failing to respond, etc)
Even iOS 15, this has stupid glitches in the basic apps (like the browser) and having to manage a plethora of iDevices in the family highlights all sorts of basic OS bugs & issues which never gets much press mention.

The Android Runtime on BB10 was as precarious as a tightrope walker on a windy day.

[brookie229]

The Android Runtime on BB10 was as precarious as a tightrope walker on a windy day.

I guess back in the day this was wrong: https://crackberry.com/android-runti...more-meets-eye

[conite]

I guess back in the day this was wrong: https://crackberry.com/android-runti...more-meets-eye

It was ingenious, but the environment was highly susceptible to corruption - necessitating a lot of security wipes if you used a lot of Android apps.

[brookie229]

It was ingenious, but the environment was highly susceptible to corruption - necessitating a lot of security wipes if you used a lot of Android apps.

Maybe - I never used a lot of android apps but I've never had to do a security wipe with either of my two devices. Right now I'm running 12 android apps on my Passport which has been going uninterrupted by autoloader or security wipes for 7 years. From my point of view that's pretty stable for tech from 2012. Gotta soon do my Passport though!

[mikael11]

I guess back in the day this was wrong: https://crackberry.com/android-runti...more-meets-eye

Yes, the different views are very much bound to time, context and what one wants to see - quite less to objectivity!

[conite]

Yes, the different views are very much bound to time, context and what one wants to see - quite less to objectivity!

Look back at the hundreds of posts circa 2013-2015 where I was troubleshooting Runtime glitches for countless users.

I was very much in the thick of it, so I have a very firm recollection of the events.

[Chuck Finley69]

Yes, the different views are very much bound to time, context and what one wants to see - quite less to objectivity!

Either way, eight (8) years ago in time and context is forever and 1/2 of eternity in where life has evolved from every perspective objectively let alone subjectively.

[mikael11]

Look back at the hundreds of posts circa 2013-2015 where I was troubleshooting Runtime glitches for countless users.

I was very much in the thick of it, so I have a very firm recollection of the events.

I understand that every developement processes has its glitches and troubles! I aimed at the link brookie provided, where the author seemed very lyrical about the Android runtime. And that compared to the current discussion. That's all!

Posted via CB10

[brookie229]

I understand that every developement processes has its glitches and troubles! I aimed at the link brookie provided, where the author seemed very lyrical about the Android runtime. And that compared to the current discussion. That's all!

Posted via CB10

Yeah, my point was waaayy back then, the runtime was considered quite well done but of course it's pretty crude today. I don't think it was ever really supposed to be a be all to end all solution for running apps but it certainly satisfied me at the time. YMMV.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yeah, my point was waaayy back then, the runtime was considered quite well done but of course it's pretty crude today. I don't think it was ever really supposed to be a be all to end all solution for running apps but it certainly satisfied me at the time. YMMV.

Yeah I think it was a stop gap till the native ecosystem was strong enough to support the platform without the resource hogging runtime that forced them to put 2GB of RAM in their phones, sucked the life out of the Z10's battery and made the PlayBook a dead end..

I would have like to have seen BB10 without it.... just to see what it might have been. But there was no future without it... or with it.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Maybe - I never used a lot of android apps but I've never had to do a security wipe with either of my two devices. Right now I'm running 12 android apps on my Passport which has been going uninterrupted by autoloader or security wipes for 7 years. From my point of view that's pretty stable for tech from 2012. Gotta soon do my Passport though!

No resets eh? I did at least one for every OS that leaked or released. Good times.

[brookie229]

No resets eh? I did at least one for every OS that leaked or released. Good times.

Nope, not one. I did use the Blitz like there was no tomorrow, however.

[conite]

Nope, not one. I did use the Blitz like there was no tomorrow, however.

Getting Android bell notifications in the HUB required coddling via resets all the time.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Nope, not one. I did use the Blitz like there was no tomorrow, however.

Blitz I never tried.

[brookie229]

Getting Android bell notifications in the HUB required coddling via resets all the time.

I guess I didn't notice that. Cannot think if I even had any apps giving notifications other than native. Not surprising though considering how integrated into the OS the Hub is/was. Maybe over time they could have solved that but anyway the whole thing was doomed as we all know. I just think that for the time it was a fairly cool solution (cool but doomed).