04-18-13 07:46 PM
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  1. blueberrymerry's Avatar
    Playbook users have been hearing "soon" + "Blackberry" for too long already. Just a friendly warning to you Z10 folks, you could be waiting for a lot longer than "soon"

    I posted the K9 workaround and yes, it's a nasty kludge. I would rather use the Messages app and have native access to contacts and attachments instead of being trapped in Android-land. I can understand the need to limit emails due to limited hardware on older platforms but come on, the Z10 has plenty of CPU, RAM and storage to handle thousands of messages without any problems.

    Blackberry users deserve better. For all RIM's talk of starting anew with BB10, there are too many missing features or bugs which get spun as features just to hide RIM's sloppiness.
    03-30-13 02:51 AM
  2. BlackberryFan777's Avatar
    BlackBerry should allow configuration to change this default in 10.1. I will say, however, that I like the idea of a 30-day cap on device history as a way of promoting email best practices. Email retention for archival or discovery purposes beyond 30 days should occur on the server, not on the device. Email preservation for reference should use a system like Remember or Evernote or a law firm's internal document management system -- this can provide better structure, organization, sharing, permissions, and search. Ideally, users may be able to reach email-zero at least once a day. I think more than 30 days of offline client storage for all your messaging services could begin to negatively impact performance or unnecessarily bloat the phone given that (a) the hub is always on and you cannot close it to free resources and (b) I'm not sure about how the Hub uses ram for caching. Probably wouldn't be a problem in most cases, but I know some people who use as much email and social media in a month as I have in the last year.

    One reason why I suggest that BlackBerry change this, despite all of the above, is because gmail has directly challenged most of the best practices I outlined above. Many, many people have now learned to use email on a system that will store multiple gigabytes of email for immediate access by search and which uses tagging rather than offering more discreet organizational features. Still, when mobile devices are offline, I'm not sure whether mobile users are typically getting access to more than 30 full days of what is on the server on other platforms.

    Note: There aren't a lot of law firms with 1,500 lawyers. That's BigLaw extreme... or perhaps that includes non-lawyers, as well. I used to practice with a firm that was almost that big, Paul Hastings. You should contact a sales person at BlackBerry and get them in touch with your IT department. Given that large law firms in the U.S. and the U.K. almost always have a kind of trickle down prestige, BlackBerry should just make the change your IT practice suggests and promise to deliver it in 10.1 or maybe even deliver a custom patch for your firm until 10.1 arrives. (Someone at BlackBerry hates me.)

    When I was graduating from law school -- circa 2003 -- Vault and the other firm ranking sites listed perks in additional to base salary compensation. One of the perks that attracted top recruits was (I know this sounds impossible now) that associates received BlackBerry devices. It's a very good thing for the rehabilitation of the BlackBerry brand to aggressively pursue sales to BigLaw. I'm actually surprised that BlackBerry hasn't cut a deal with Westlaw and Lexis for at least Android ports of their apps and worked with top time-tracking and document management software developers to integrate. I'm also a little surprised that your IT department is looking at the Lumia 920 as integration with top legal support software is simply not there... just as it really isn't there on BB10, yet.
    Zedi Master likes this.
    03-30-13 03:02 AM
  3. buu511's Avatar
    I could live with 30 days of email if the z10 would let me search on the server like my iphone does.

    Example: Got an email with a hotel reservation 2 months ago. Placed it in a separate IMAP folder which is pretty much empty (like 5 email). Now on the bb I can't access that information because it is over 30 days old and I can't even do a remote server search for it. That is what I consider a deal breaker.

    I understand that some of you have the option to search the server. But it doesn't work for my IMAP account and it doesn't work for a lot of other people.


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by buu511; 03-30-13 at 05:19 AM.
    mset, Mr_F, rampagingpanda and 1 others like this.
    03-30-13 04:47 AM
  4. semperfi45's Avatar
    I have seen post after post lamenting the lack of more than 30 days of email retention. I never felt the need to respond because it was always individuals. Now someone is claiming it's a corporate decision. I have to weigh in here. If there is documentation field reps need to keep up on orders, history, or accounts, the LAST place you want your archives and information stored is email. Where is your document management and retention system? Where is your CRM? This is not the job of any mobile platform. This is not the job of any email server. There is a reason there are CRM and document management systems. Email is just a communications medium, not document management and retention. Microsoft Sharepoint is but one of many solutions. Google Docs is another of many alternatives.

    If an email is 4 days old it's old news to me. If it was important it's retained in other more manageable mediums.
    I'm with you on this subject. I can't think of an e-mail I've retained for more than a week or so.
    03-30-13 05:21 AM
  5. mset's Avatar
    I could live with 30 days of email if the z10 would let me search on the server like my iphone does.

    Example: Got an email with a hotel reservation 2 months ago. Placed it in a separate IMAP folder which is pretty much empty (like 5 email). Now on the bb o can't access that information because it is ober 30 days old and I can't even do a remote server search for it. That is what I consider a deal breaker.

    I understand that some of you have the option to search the server. But it doesn't work for my IMAP account and it doesn't work for a lot of other people.
    Absolutely +1. The long post above which references law firms talks about 'when mobile devices are offline'. When are mobile devices offline nowadays except on a plane, and that is in the process of changing.

    It's the inability to do a server search that really makes no sense. How could BBRY, a company built catering to clients in the business world, make such a huge error? If I get an email from a client and it references a previous discussion, I must have access to that discussion right away (IMAP), not 10 steps away.

    PS - if you've never had to retain a business email for more than a week, you're in a small minority of business users.
    03-30-13 05:23 AM
  6. NaijaBerry's Avatar
    I do believe that this will be changed especially since so many people need this. I've noticed since I joined CB that BBRY listens to the CB nation, as long as we keep it factual and on-point just like OP did. Twitter is also a very good channel, so if someone could post the appropriate emails or twitter handle, I'm quite sure if we keep hitting them with these requests they will be addressed, this is a new BBRY that listens and acts!
    tlegend2012 likes this.
    03-30-13 05:36 AM
  7. jafrul's Avatar
    Interesting...

    Would you mind sharing with the classroom what phone they've chosen to go with instead?
    So, any answers for this question?

    And I have to agree with rkelly65. Valid reason there...
    03-30-13 05:37 AM
  8. mset's Avatar
    If there is documentation field reps need to keep up on orders, history, or accounts, the LAST place you want your archives and information stored is email. Where is your document management and retention system? Where is your CRM? This is not the job of any mobile platform. This is not the job of any email server. There is a reason there are CRM and document management systems. Email is just a communications medium, not document management and retention.

    If an email is 4 days old it's old news to me. If it was important it's retained in other more manageable mediums.
    i just had to respond to this one because it's full of such bizarre assumptions. Do you think every small business has enterprise-level document management systems? 'Email is not a document management system'?? For hundreds of thousands of small business people, it is. Field reps? I don't have any field reps. I do have hundreds of clients, either current or soon-to-be current again. They communicate with me via email. I need to be able to reference their previous communications. I don't know what kind of business you're in, but for the vast majority of business users, a 4-day old email isn't exactly 'old news'.

    This whole thing about work-arounds, like screenshots or copying and saving as PDF, is ridiculous. I agree with another poster who said that there are a lot of Apple-type people here, who have their heads stuck in the sand.
    03-30-13 05:41 AM
  9. kill_9's Avatar
    A smart phone has the ability to access ancient docs. Retaining ancient email is counter productive, storage intensive, and not cost efficient. At the year old point it should be common knowledge or retained as a shared doc for the good of all. Of course users sometimes have to be dragged kicking and screaming into more efficient forms of working.
    Some people need to keep a few older emails indefinitely. I am going to experiment with filing a few emails in subfolders of the Inbox on the Microsoft Exchange Server and check back in 30 days. I will try Remote Search as well to determine whether it truly is an acceptable solution, but as they say out of sight out of mind...

    Posted via CB10 from the BlackBerry Z10
    03-30-13 05:53 AM
  10. currentodysseys's Avatar
    I think this issue has been talked over a gazilion times. This thread just denotes once more that it is a major deal breaker for potential clients, including some firms of really considerable size.

    It is not a matter of what we believe or alternatives we propose. Some people and companies need this set up to have unlimited instead of 30 days max.

    I agree with mset. In my field I also need to have the emails handy. I have a record of important communications of 6+ years on email that includes important client and legally imposed archives that must be at my reach. I mostly use my laptop for that but I also need some to be on my phone (like at least 1,5 years) so that I can have that info handy should I need it when on the go, without having to pull out my lap top.

    No matter how anyone advocates against it, if this is their requirement or choice it constitutes a deciding factor on the purchase. And to see on top of it that they absolutely love the phone and ditch it for that, well I think it is something that should get BlackBerry execs take this seriously and provide a solution *yesterday* imo. We are talking about a critical email feature = basic functionality relevant to one of the phone's primary functions. It is not an "i like" - "i don't like" detail.

    Hope BB steps it up in regards to this.

    That said, I think the feedback already must have reached bb, since your company will have explained the reason of deciding against purchase to their BB liaison?
    bungaboy likes this.
    03-30-13 06:23 AM
  11. Matt J's Avatar
    Well, I'm sure BlackBerry could up the history to 1 year without issue. Perhaps in the next update.
    03-30-13 06:48 AM
  12. Mr_F's Avatar
    I could live with 30 days of email if the z10 would let me search on the server like my iphone does.

    Example: Got an email with a hotel reservation 2 months ago. Placed it in a separate IMAP folder which is pretty much empty (like 5 email). Now on the bb I can't access that information because it is over 30 days old and I can't even do a remote server search for it. That is what I consider a deal breaker.

    I understand that some of you have the option to search the server. But it doesn't work for my IMAP account and it doesn't work for a lot of other people.


    Posted via CB10
    Absolutely +1. The long post above which references law firms talks about 'when mobile devices are offline'. When are mobile devices offline nowadays except on a plane, and that is in the process of changing.

    It's the inability to do a server search that really makes no sense. How could BBRY, a company built catering to clients in the business world, make such a huge error? If I get an email from a client and it references a previous discussion, I must have access to that discussion right away (IMAP), not 10 steps away.

    PS - if you've never had to retain a business email for more than a week, you're in a small minority of business users.
    I fully agree with the above. I'd also like to add that (for me personally) the 'Remember app' would have been an acceptable solution and something I was prepared to embrace as the way to 'better' manage my mail on BB10 - but even the Remember app is hindered by the limit.

    My preference would be for BlackBerry to increase the sync period beyond 30 days (which I understand is coming). If I'm still forced to change the way I interact with my on-device mail (due to Hub restrictions or performance related issues) then I'd like to see BlackBerry change the way Remember works so that a flagged email gets saved (and copied) to the app. That way it will still be accessible on the device after the 30 day limit. I'd like to be able to do this without having to initially flag the email - a simple 'save / share / add to Remember' would suffice (although I can understand why flagging would be preferable to some).

    Having neither option currently available means the 30 day limit will continue to be a deal breaker for many. Let's hope these issues become nonexistent with the arrival of 10.1.
    Supa_Fly1 likes this.
    03-30-13 07:00 AM
  13. tpmbb10's Avatar
    Just curious, does this limitation also apply to users who will be on BES 10?

    Posted via CB10
    03-30-13 07:03 AM
  14. ubizmo's Avatar
    I could live with 30 days of email if the z10 would let me search on the server like my iphone does
    This is the point exactly. I'd be happy to keep only a week's worth of email on the Z10 if I could search back beyond that.

    In fact this isn't a serious issue for me but I can easily see how it could be for others.


    Posted via CB10
    03-30-13 07:04 AM
  15. wehttam's Avatar
    Lets stop making excuses for Blackberry. let me rephrase lets stop kissing blackberry ***. Yes most of us are bb fans but an over sight is an over sight if you wanna call it that.Not because the s3 or any other phone has a 30 day cap means that blackberry should, after all its being advertised as a device to get things done as well as a business device .For those who are saying ohhh they dont understand why someone would want to keep so many email well you have the option that says delete from hand held use it !!! it is sad that a lot of little useful features that blackberry is known for they were removed ..im starting to feel that the software was rushed and its not quite finish..case in point look at bridge the basically killed bridge its useless as far as im concern. Like everything else its coming soon!!! and yes im a bb user and a playbook user and i do believe i have the right to criticize blackberry and their so many its coming soon over sight
    03-30-13 07:05 AM
  16. jgrobertson's Avatar
    30 Days Limitation!!!! I showed them the workarounds and they said you can't be looking up things while you're in court, or hearings!

    we're talking about 1500 Z10s!



    I can't believe that blackberry left something like that...
    To me, it sounds like someone making the decision just does not like BlackBerry and grabbed a minor point to justify his rejection.
    Supa_Fly1 likes this.
    03-30-13 07:05 AM
  17. wehttam's Avatar
    To me, it sounds like someone making the decision just does not like BlackBerry and grabbed a minor point to justify his rejection.
    what is minor to you is major to someone else. Thats a feature that blackberry is known for its a business device u wanna see things now i do understand where the user of the original post is coming from. as i said let stop trying to blame this person and that person lets start blaming blackberry i to dont like a lot of emails on my phone just in case you're wondering
    h20work and JeepBB like this.
    03-30-13 07:10 AM
  18. d3rd's Avatar
    Can you save/flag individual emails like you could on the old bbos?
    Don't know about previous BBOS, but you can save and flag. You do this by press & holding on item. A context menu then slides out...see pic below.

    My company just turned down Z10 because of the 30 day email option-img_00000109.png

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    03-30-13 07:14 AM
  19. nycspaces.'s Avatar
    All of the self centered fools saying 30 days is fine must be the most useless people in their organization. Of course you should be able to search whatever is not archived from your inbox/folders. The archive is still something that should be searchable based upon enterprise rules specific to their corporate goals. Certainly a server search is reasonable if the system is limiting the amount of mail to remain blindingly fast.

    Why BBRY can't simply change this to 90 or 120 days in a simple update i am not sure, it would probably minimize the concerns while not solving the problem, but at least it would provide us with access to most relevant information in the case of off-network searches (plane or subway). As long as you could hit the server once back on network.
    03-30-13 07:15 AM
  20. Lendo's Avatar
    K, I'm seriously lost. I have emails going back more than 30 days. I also have facebook request going back to 2012. What are we talking about?
    03-30-13 07:21 AM
  21. lawguyman's Avatar
    All this drama over an issue that BlackBerry said will be fixed in the spring update.

    If this is the level of defect that the Z10 has, I think it will do very well.

    Posted via CB10
    03-30-13 07:35 AM
  22. lurk_n_post_2000's Avatar
    I don't really think it's a matter of whether it's a good idea to have more than 30 days on email on your BlackBerry or not, that's going to be a matter of opinion and preference.

    Why would BlackBerry impose an arbitrary limit if there's no technical or architectural reason for it? There should be an option to retain email on the device indefinitely.

    Posted via CB10
    03-30-13 07:41 AM
  23. Drayk's Avatar
    1-All of the self centered fools ..... 2-most useless people in their organization.
    3-Why BBRY can't simply change this to 90 or 120 days in a simple update i am not sure
    1-Really????
    2-Really????
    3-How do you know they're not going to??? Maybe they'll change it to indefinitely
    PPL are just dropping their opinion. It's an opinion, man. It doesn't necessarily make them "self centered" , "fools" or "useless".
    Last edited by berryjunkie; 03-30-13 at 08:23 AM.
    03-30-13 08:04 AM
  24. web99's Avatar
    I have seen post after post lamenting the lack of more than 30 days of email retention. I never felt the need to respond because it was always individuals. Now someone is claiming it's a corporate decision. I have to weigh in here. If there is documentation field reps need to keep up on orders, history, or accounts, the LAST place you want your archives and information stored is email. Where is your document management and retention system? Where is your CRM? This is not the job of any mobile platform. This is not the job of any email server. There is a reason there are CRM and document management systems. Email is just a communications medium, not document management and retention. Microsoft Sharepoint is but one of many solutions. Google Docs is another of many alternatives.

    If an email is 4 days old it's old news to me. If it was important it's retained in other more manageable mediums.
    This is exactly what we do at our company. Employees there use CRM and a document management system for important information. At my job, I get probably 200 to 300 emails a day, so imagine having to store more than 30 days worth on my mobile device.
    03-30-13 08:09 AM
  25. berklon's Avatar
    The 30 day limit really is ridiculous.

    Does Blackberry even understand the enterprise? In business, there are many times in which you have a need to refer to an old e-mail. The e-mails don't just consist of personal greetings and jokes, they usually contain important information that will be needed at some point in the future.

    Totally inexcusable.
    03-30-13 08:10 AM
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