[red stripe]

Just curious as to what you mean, my z10 is storing emails past 30 days. I have email is from the first day I got the device still on my phone. So are you talking about when you set up the phone it only goes back the last 30 days

Really? That flies in the face of a considerable body of evidence that this is not the case.

Screenshot from a March 4 or before email on your Z10 please.

[bungaboy]

Really? That flies in the face of a considerable body of evidence that this is not the case.

Screenshot from a March 4 or before email on your Z10 please.

Your's first.

[kill_9]

Just curious as to what you mean, my z10 is storing emails past 30 days. I have email is from the first day I got the device still on my phone. So are you talking about when you set up the phone it only goes back the last 30 days

My BlackBerry Z10 has two email accounts (personal and professional); both accounts on the smartphone show March 7, 2013 as the earliest date. Meanwhile on the mail servers the full history of messages prior to March 7, 2013 are in their folders with the exception of any email explicitly deleted on the BlackBerry Z10. I still wish there was a 'Delete on Handheld' and 'Delete on Handheld and Server' option to better manage email using the smartphone.

[bungaboy]

My BlackBerry Z10 has two email accounts (personal and professional); both accounts on the smartphone show March 7, 2013 as the earliest date. Meanwhile on the mail servers the full history of messages prior to March 7, 2013 are in their folders with the exception of any email explicitly deleted on the BlackBerry Z10. I still wish there was a 'Delete on Handheld' and 'Delete on Handheld and Server' option to better manage email using the smartphone.

Did you get the OS upgrade on March 7th?

[red stripe]

Your's first.

Claim: "my z10 is storing emails past 30 days"

Evidence in this thread such as a post by Blaize (post #76):
"I thought this was a huge issue as well but having had my device since Jan 30th, I've yet to come across a point in time in which I needed to make use of anything beyond the allowed limit. I'm sure it will come eventually but as of now, it hasn't been an issue."

and a tweet by Michael Clewley (tweet shown in post #332):
”Hey @CrackBerry just wanted to follow-up on this forum post (forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-z10…) to say that more than 30 days is coming for 10.1”

clearly indicate this is not presently possible. Many more posters claim the same but a mod and a Blackberry exec should serve as an adequate sample.

I am willing to be convinced otherwise, though. I suggested a screenshot of an email in the native Z10 application that was older than 30 days. This would definitively prove that this capability, despite considerable evidence to the contrary, actually exists.

Do you have a better way to demonstrate this capability if it exists? At present the evidence is enough, for me at least, to say this capability does not exist on the Z10.

[bungaboy]

Claim: "my z10 is storing emails past 30 days"

Evidence in this thread such as a post by Blaize (post #76):
"I thought this was a huge issue as well but having had my device since Jan 30th, I've yet to come across a point in time in which I needed to make use of anything beyond the allowed limit. I'm sure it will come eventually but as of now, it hasn't been an issue."

and a tweet by Michael Clewley (tweet shown in post #332):
”Hey @CrackBerry just wanted to follow-up on this forum post (forums.crackberry.com/blackberry-z10…) to say that more than 30 days is coming for 10.1”

clearly indicate this is not presently possible. Many more posters claim the same but a mod and a Blackberry exec should serve as an adequate sample.

I am willing to be convinced otherwise, though. I suggested a screenshot of an email in the native Z10 application that was older than 30 days. This would definitively prove that this capability, despite considerable evidence to the contrary, actually exists.

Do you have a better way to demonstrate this capability if it exists? At present the evidence is enough, for me at least, to say this capability does not exist on the Z10.

Ouch! Shut the front door! LoL

I was referring to your request for a screen shot of his emails.

I would never post such on a public forum. But I am over security/Idenity paranoid.

It is what it is.

[red stripe]

Ouch! Shut the front door! LoL

I was referring to your request for a screen shot of his emails.

I would never post such on a public forum. But I am over security/Idenity paranoid.

It is what it is.

I asked for a single email more than 30 days old. For example:



Note the date. Jan 22.
Also note that it is not stalker friendly. Presumably there is a Z10 owner making these extraordinary claims that has one email older than 30 days that will not compromise their privacy.

I posit that it is not so much the lack of an email that meets the above criteria, it is simply the lack of *any* email stored (or accessible via a server search) on the Z10 older than 30 days.

Again, I would be happy to be proven wrong on this issue.

[kenwardb]

Assuming you would be using BES10 (with 1500 Z10s, that would be wise), the limitation is configured under "Profiles" > "Email Profiles". You can set it to be "Unlimited" if you want.
Planning on this many devices, I would have expected your vendor to tell you this!

[mset]

Assuming you would be using BES10 (with 1500 Z10s, that would be wise), the limitation is configured under "Profiles" > "Email Profiles". You can set it to be "Unlimited" if you want.
Planning on this many devices, I would have expected your vendor to tell you this!

I'm pretty sure it's been established that even though the 'unlimited' option exists, it doesn't actually work. Please read through the first few pages to make sure.

[red stripe]

Assuming you would be using BES10 (with 1500 Z10s, that would be wise), the limitation is configured under "Profiles" > "Email Profiles". You can set it to be "Unlimited" if you want.
Planning on this many devices, I would have expected your vendor to tell you this!

*sigh*

No.
Your suggestion does not change the 30 day email limitation on the Z10.

RTFT

[ihyln]

Ouch! Shut the front door! LoL

I was referring to your request for a screen shot of his emails.

I would never post such on a public forum. But I am over security/Idenity paranoid.

It is what it is.

I suppose the technology to black out names and other information in a screenshot doesn't exist yet. I will bet money this kid is full of bs claiming he gets more than 30 days with EAS.

[John Pawling]

My BlackBerry Z10 has two email accounts (personal and professional); both accounts on the smartphone show March 7, 2013 as the earliest date. Meanwhile on the mail servers the full history of messages prior to March 7, 2013 are in their folders with the exception of any email explicitly deleted on the BlackBerry Z10. I still wish there was a 'Delete on Handheld' and 'Delete on Handheld and Server' option to better manage email using the smartphone.

I noticed that most of email accounts are set up as IMAP ones and, correct me if I'm wrong, when you use the IMAP delete function it deletes it in both places. I wonder if one could redefine the account as POP3 instead we might get the option to delete only on the device.

Posted Via CB10 on my Zed10

[red stripe]

I noticed that most of email accounts are set up as IMAP ones and, correct me if I'm wrong, when you use the IMAP delete function it deletes it in both places. I wonder if one could redefine the account as POP3 instead we might get the option to delete only on the device.

Posted Via CB10 on my Zed10

I admit I am arguing from a position of ignorance here, but what the heck, it seems to be all the rage around here.

I don't get why "delete on handheld only" is such a desirable option. I have an email account. I get mail on whatever piece of glass I happen to be staring at at the time. Phone, tablet, laptop, ugly Dell WinXP box at office. I do or don't do something to it (ignore it unread, read it, read it and flag it, stuff it in a folder, delete it etc). Later when I am staring at some other piece of glass I know that whatever I did will be reflected exactly on this piece of glass too.

Simple, consistent, efficient. Having different devices in different states seems primeval.

If I had to guess, it would be to clear your phone's emails while mobile in an attempt to get to inbox zero, but then you are still left with the task of dealing with the emails again back at the office. Ew.

I am, however, all for options. Hopefully you can have it if you want it.

[Tre Lawrence]

I admit I am arguing from a position of ignorance here, but what the heck, it seems to be all the rage around here.

I don't get why "delete on handheld only" is such a desirable option. I have an email account. I get mail on whatever piece of glass I happen to be staring at at the time. Phone, tablet, laptop, ugly Dell WinXP box at office. I do or don't do something to it (ignore it unread, read it, read it and flag it, stuff it in a folder, delete it etc). Later when I am staring at some other piece of glass I know that whatever I did will be reflected exactly on this piece of glass too.

Simple, consistent, efficient. Having different devices in different states seems primeval.

If I had to guess, it would be to clear your phone's emails while mobile in an attempt to get to inbox zero, but then you are still left with the task of dealing with the emails again back at the office. Ew.

I am, however, all for options. Hopefully you can have it if you want it.

Don't get it either. I prefer sync across devices. Archiving all but mimics "deleting on device only."

But, as you pointed out, options are good.

[Omnitech]

Probably not there at launch because they need to optimize the hub further since it is holding a lot of info already and would require a lot of resources without it being optimized.

That was more or less my conclusion why they did that. If the emails going back to the beginning of mankind were being displayed in a dedicated single-mailbox view like most email client apps, it's not as big a deal as when it's mixed-in with half a dozen other email account mailboxes, all your SMS messages, BBM, misc IM clients, Phone Calls, Voicemail, Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn...

[red stripe]

That was more or less my conclusion why they did that. If the emails going back to the beginning of mankind were being displayed in a dedicated single-mailbox view like most email client apps, it's not as big a deal as when it's mixed-in with half a dozen other email account mailboxes, all your SMS messages, BBM, misc IM clients, Phone Calls, Voicemail, Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn...

Certainly a possibility, but RIMM had a 30 day email fetish going back from the beginning of the PlayBook to present day. Oops, since they eventually figured how to get email on the PlayBook to present day. What was that? 4 months? I have blocked out the specific memory.

Edit: It took RIMM *10 months* to release native email on the PlayBook! After a CEO promised it in 60 days. LOL. I really did block that out.

[blueberrymerry]

I wonder if the same group of people worked on the Playbook's messaging system and the Z10's. BB10 was delayed for over a year yet they still took the same system, fixed the IMAP folder handling but neglected fixing IMAP folder mapping and the biggest bug of all, the 30-day sync limit.

When RIM says something is "just around the corner", I take that to mean in a year's time or never. Maybe they put more priority in fancy apps like Story Maker or the swiping interface instead of stuff to get work done with. Playbook users have been promised a BB10 update for over a year now...

[Omnitech]

Well I haven't had the time/patience to read this thread until now. Mea culpa. Looks like Clewley's tweet pretty much neutered the majority of the contentious stuff.

But since I spent something like 2 hours wading through all the muck, I'm going to blab anyway.

The way I see it, people in the main 2 "camps" both have valid points. Their problem is, they almost universally refuse to acknowledge that their opponents have even a sliver of a valid point at all. That's ridiculous. (Seems to be the norm these days though. See: US Congress.)

So while I agree that a clueful LARGE organization should have something far better in place to do real document management, the vast majority of smaller businesses and individuals are not likely to have those things. And having access to historical emails is often important.

A key question here would be: how many people are managing email strictly via a handheld device these days? For those people, I'd imagine the issue is quite a bit more stressful than someone who can just look for the old stuff on the desktop computer or laptop on the rare occasions they need to really dig through the archives.

I must say though - the "attorney in court" example is kind of ridiculous. Who in their right mind would go to court relying on a fickle, multi-purpose, internet-reliant handheld electronic device for their evidence? Let me know who you are so I can stay far away from you as a client.

Most of the Blackberry traditionalists I've seen on the forums here seem to be coming from a background of BIS/POP3 thinking, and what may have worked for those architectures really is increasingly immaterial in today's world. Syncing email protocols are the future for a plethora of outstanding reasons, and while there are certainly some things that can be done with POP3 that are difficult to directly replicate with a syncing protocol, my observation has been their most passionate advocacy comes more from a place of mental habit than it does of well-considered superiority. There were all sorts of bad habits people got into over the years in their continual attempt to work around all the limitations of the 25-year-old POP protocol.

In reality, Blackberry 10 is the very first smartphone OS from Blackberry that natively supports Exchange ActiveSync. (The first RIM product that supported it at all was the Playbook OS.) And while the "30-day sync limit" is limited compared to other smartphone OS's these days, in fact Blackberry's implementation of Microsoft's Exchange ActiveSync is actually, by-and-large, the most feature-rich and secure implementation of EAS of any native smartphone OS in the world today, with the possible exception of Microsoft's own Windows Phone 8. Comparison of Exchange ActiveSync Clients (wikipedia)

For example: in your EAS account on a Z10, there is a simple switch you can use to set/enable/disable an "out of office message" - right on the handheld. Can't do that with iOS, can't do that with Android. Want to sync "notes" or memos? You can do that on Blackberry 10. Can't do it on Android, can't do it on iOS. Have to buy expensive 3rd-party solutions to accomplish those things on those platforms, if at all.

So while the 30-day sync thing might be a [temporary] downside for some people, in other ways the remote syncing functionality on the Z10/Blackberry 10 is richer and more secure than the competition's built-in offerings.

Let us also not forget that many system administrators specifically BLOCK certain features like unlimited sync timeframes and even remote search, because they can be huge resource-hogs. EVEN IF your mobile device supports "forever" sync - it's not going to do you much good if your server admin has the sync period limited to maximum of 7 days. Or 30 days.

My guess about why Blackberry 10 got released with the original 30-day limit comes down to 2 things: thinking like a system administrator, and the Blackberry Hub.

As for the system administrator - who has a bunch of users who insist on the "forever" syncing option - s/he's the person who will inevitably have to hear from all the irate users who can't understand why their handheld device has slowed to a crawl, used up all free storage space, and just cost them a $300 data overage charge with their carrier because they tried to sync all 15 GB of their emails in their Exchange mailbox - going back to the dawn of mankind - onto their phone. That's the same I.T. person that might set 30 days as the maximum historical sync time as a policy on their Exchange server for the same reasons.

As for the hub, trying to store every email you ever sent or received since the Pleistocene era on your smartphone may not be completely unworkable if you are only attempting to display such things in a dedicated mailbox/client and (say) limit your sync to email headers only or (at most) email headers and bodies.

But try including file attachments, and dumping all those thousands of prehistoric messages into the same mailbox with hundreds or thousands of messages from a half-dozen other email accounts, all your text messages, phone call history, voicemails, BBM messages, other IM messages, Tweets, Facebook and LinkedIn updates... and it becomes a whole other kettle of fish entirely.

Under the circumstances, quite honestly it doesn't surprise me much at all that they limited the original release to 30-days sync.

Yeah it would be nice to have the option to store more. But I sure wouldn't want to be answering the service calls from users trying to wade through that giant data sinkhole.

Last but not least: let us not forget that over the past 4-5 years, Blackberry has gone from the world's pre-eminent smartphone platform to a bit-player in the market, for all practical purposes. And during that slide, the products and platforms that were cleaning RIM/Blackberry's clock in the market had virtually none of those hallowed "email productivity" features, yet they were adopted at a rate that not only made Blackberry all but invisible in the consumer market in developed countries, but started to seriously impinge on RIM/Blackberry's traditional business/government market strongholds as well.

Today, like it or not, the tail of the mass consumer market tends to wag the dog of the enterprise market. If you don't get strong market acceptance in the former, the chance of getting adopted in the latter isn't particularly high. Luckily, Thorsten & Co. understand that fact far more innately than the previous RIM/Blackberry management team did. And that can only be good for the future of Blackberry.

[mset]

Excellent post. Basically ends the thread in a lot of ways. I'll just say this.

...the vast majority of smaller businesses and individuals are not likely to have those things. And having access to historical emails is often important.

...how many people are managing email strictly via a handheld device these days? For those people, I'd imagine the issue is quite a bit more stressful than someone who can just look for the old stuff on the desktop computer or laptop...

First para is exactly the point many of us were trying to make. With regard to the second para, yes I can access all the historical material from a desktop/laptop, but I also need to be able to access it in the field and I don't want to have to carry a laptop. I don't manage email strictly from a handset, just often.

Today, like it or not, the tail of the mass consumer market tends to wag the dog of the enterprise market. If you don't get strong market acceptance in the former, the chance of getting adopted in the latter isn't particularly high.

Good point about the tail wagging the dog. I see it as a general confluence of the mobile world, where people are demanding all their functionality in one device.

[mkelley65]

I wonder if the same group of people worked on the Playbook's messaging system and the Z10's. BB10 was delayed for over a year yet they still took the same system, fixed the IMAP folder handling but neglected fixing IMAP folder mapping and the biggest bug of all, the 30-day sync limit.

When RIM says something is "just around the corner", I take that to mean in a year's time or never. Maybe they put more priority in fancy apps like Story Maker or the swiping interface instead of stuff to get work done with. Playbook users have been promised a BB10 update for over a year now...

Where did you get that BB10 was delayed over a year? The original release date was Q4 2012. It was pushed back a quarter. They have always said BB10 would come to the Playbook sometime after the release of BB10. It's not fully released yet. Let them get the Q10s out the door.

[kill_9]

I admit I am arguing from a position of ignorance here, but what the heck, it seems to be all the rage around here.

I don't get why "delete on handheld only" is such a desirable option. I have an email account. I get mail on whatever piece of glass I happen to be staring at at the time. Phone, tablet, laptop, ugly Dell WinXP box at office. I do or don't do something to it (ignore it unread, read it, read it and flag it, stuff it in a folder, delete it etc). Later when I am staring at some other piece of glass I know that whatever I did will be reflected exactly on this piece of glass too.

Simple, consistent, efficient. Having different devices in different states seems primeval.

If I had to guess, it would be to clear your phone's emails while mobile in an attempt to get to inbox zero, but then you are still left with the task of dealing with the emails again back at the office. Ew.

I am, however, all for options. Hopefully you can have it if you want it.

Clearly your understanding of the value of Delete on Handheld versus Delete on Handheld and Server. My accounts are one IMAP and one Microsoft Exchange Server. Normally I keep every email on Friday server but delete the emails which have been actioned and no longer needed. Any retained email meant for long-term retention is typically moved to a sub-folder if a rule has not already moved the email into the folder. There are email messages which I prefer to keep on the smartphone until such time as they can be archived in the server and deleted from the smartphone; this is essential for projects that often span months.

Posted via CB10 from the BlackBerry Z10

[John Pawling]

Well I haven't had the time/patience to read this thread until now. Mea culpa. Looks like Clewley's tweet pretty much neutered the majority of the contentious stuff.

But since I spent something like 2 hours wading through all the muck, I'm going to blab anyway.

The way I see it, people in the main 2 "camps" both have valid points. Their problem is, they almost universally refuse to acknowledge that their opponents have even a sliver of a valid point at all. That's ridiculous. (Seems to be the norm these days though. See: US Congress.)

So while I agree that a clueful LARGE organization should have something far better in place to do real document management, the vast majority of smaller businesses and individuals are not likely to have those things. And having access to historical emails is often important.

A key question here would be: how many people are managing email strictly via a handheld device these days? For those people, I'd imagine the issue is quite a bit more stressful than someone who can just look for the old stuff on the desktop computer or laptop on the rare occasions they need to really dig through the archives.

I must say though - the "attorney in court" example is kind of ridiculous. Who in their right mind would go to court relying on a fickle, multi-purpose, internet-reliant handheld electronic device for their evidence? Let me know who you are so I can stay far away from you as a client.

Most of the Blackberry traditionalists I've seen on the forums here seem to be coming from a background of BIS/POP3 thinking, and what may have worked for those architectures really is increasingly immaterial in today's world. Syncing email protocols are the future for a plethora of outstanding reasons, and while there are certainly some things that can be done with POP3 that are difficult to directly replicate with a syncing protocol, my observation has been their most passionate advocacy comes more from a place of mental habit than it does of well-considered superiority. There were all sorts of bad habits people got into over the years in their continual attempt to work around all the limitations of the 25-year-old POP protocol.

In reality, Blackberry 10 is the very first smartphone OS from Blackberry that natively supports Exchange ActiveSync. (The first RIM product that supported it at all was the Playbook OS.) And while the "30-day sync limit" is limited compared to other smartphone OS's these days, in fact Blackberry's implementation of Microsoft's Exchange ActiveSync is actually, by-and-large, the most feature-rich and secure implementation of EAS of any native smartphone OS in the world today, with the possible exception of Microsoft's own Windows Phone 8. Comparison of Exchange ActiveSync Clients (wikipedia)

For example: in your EAS account on a Z10, there is a simple switch you can use to set/enable/disable an "out of office message" - right on the handheld. Can't do that with iOS, can't do that with Android. Want to sync "notes" or memos? You can do that on Blackberry 10. Can't do it on Android, can't do it on iOS. Have to buy expensive 3rd-party solutions to accomplish those things on those platforms, if at all.

So while the 30-day sync thing might be a [temporary] downside for some people, in other ways the remote syncing functionality on the Z10/Blackberry 10 is richer and more secure than the competition's built-in offerings.

Let us also not forget that many system administrators specifically BLOCK certain features like unlimited sync timeframes and even remote search, because they can be huge resource-hogs. EVEN IF your mobile device supports "forever" sync - it's not going to do you much good if your server admin has the sync period limited to maximum of 7 days. Or 30 days.

My guess about why Blackberry 10 got released with the original 30-day limit comes down to 2 things: thinking like a system administrator, and the Blackberry Hub.

As for the system administrator - who has a bunch of users who insist on the "forever" syncing option - s/he's the person who will inevitably have to hear from all the irate users who can't understand why their handheld device has slowed to a crawl, used up all free storage space, and just cost them a $300 data overage charge with their carrier because they tried to sync all 15 GB of their emails in their Exchange mailbox - going back to the dawn of mankind - onto their phone. That's the same I.T. person that might set 30 days as the maximum historical sync time as a policy on their Exchange server for the same reasons.

As for the hub, trying to store every email you ever sent or received since the Pleistocene era on your smartphone may not be completely unworkable if you are only attempting to display such things in a dedicated mailbox/client and (say) limit your sync to email headers only or (at most) email headers and bodies.

But try including file attachments, and dumping all those thousands of prehistoric messages into the same mailbox with hundreds or thousands of messages from a half-dozen other email accounts, all your text messages, phone call history, voicemails, BBM messages, other IM messages, Tweets, Facebook and LinkedIn updates... and it becomes a whole other kettle of fish entirely.

Under the circumstances, quite honestly it doesn't surprise me much at all that they limited the original release to 30-days sync.

Yeah it would be nice to have the option to store more. But I sure wouldn't want to be answering the service calls from users trying to wade through that giant data sinkhole.

Last but not least: let us not forget that over the past 4-5 years, Blackberry has gone from the world's pre-eminent smartphone platform to a bit-player in the market, for all practical purposes. And during that slide, the products and platforms that were cleaning RIM/Blackberry's clock in the market had virtually none of those hallowed "email productivity" features, yet they were adopted at a rate that not only made Blackberry all but invisible in the consumer market in developed countries, but started to seriously impinge on RIM/Blackberry's traditional business/government market strongholds as well.

Today, like it or not, the tail of the mass consumer market tends to wag the dog of the enterprise market. If you don't get strong market acceptance in the former, the chance of getting adopted in the latter isn't particularly high. Luckily, Thorsten & Co. understand that fact far more innately than the previous RIM/Blackberry management team did. And that can only be good for the future of Blackberry.

Excellent post! Thank you for taking the time to post it and it accurately expresses my thoughts.



Posted Via CB10 on my Zed10

[bungaboy]

I asked for a single email more than 30 days old. For example:



Note the date. Jan 22.
Also note that it is not stalker friendly. Presumably there is a Z10 owner making these extraordinary claims that has one email older than 30 days that will not compromise their privacy.

I posit that it is not so much the lack of an email that meets the above criteria, it is simply the lack of *any* email stored (or accessible via a server search) on the Z10 older than 30 days.

Again, I would be happy to be proven wrong on this issue.

I meant a screen shot from your Z10.

[bungaboy]

I asked for a single email more than 30 days old. For example:



Note the date. Jan 22.
Also note that it is not stalker friendly. Presumably there is a Z10 owner making these extraordinary claims that has one email older than 30 days that will not compromise their privacy.

I posit that it is not so much the lack of an email that meets the above criteria, it is simply the lack of *any* email stored (or accessible via a server search) on the Z10 older than 30 days.

Again, I would be happy to be proven wrong on this issue.

I blanked out my ID related stuff. Does this work for you?

[eldricho]

Now with screen shot goodness...


Attachment 148861

Posted via CB10

Found this in this thread from a Q10 (Or Dev Alpha C) running 10.1, so I guess it is coming