1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Reading trough the forums and it's clear a new trend is emerging, some who made the jump to BB10 are looking down on those who prefer BBOS and BIS and wish not everything was left behind with BB10.

    All the BlackBerry strong points like BIS somehow became a reason to ridicule and call antiquated.

    They behave like those who jumped to iphones and android not so long ago. There is a good reason many of us never changed and those reasons still apply today.

    Looking forward to being told to "get on with the times" "move on" and whatever else
    niss63 likes this.
    04-05-13 07:04 AM
  2. LordCrankypants's Avatar
    I can't speak to those looking down on BIS users, but at the heart of it, BIS is relatively obsolete in a lot of ways - browsing was slowed down considerably because of the compression, the OS itself is VERY outdated (you can only put bandaids over a bleeding wound for so long) and the security aspect of the OS with regards to browsing and protecting personal information was made a moot point by security protocols that have been put in place over time by email providers, social media sites and online banking providers.

    The security of BBM still remains - that service is still pushed through the NOC and conversations are as secure as they always were. The security of the OS is there, if not better than it has been (all the old features are there - BB Protect, encryption, password lock, etc). I'm not going to say it's unhackable because there is no proof that supports that, however it is the most secure mobile OS on the market today (and that's been tested). The only difference here is that now all data isn't being pushed through the BB NOC, therefore losing the data compression. That was required in order to have LTE speeds on the phone (something necessary to be competitive). Loss of data compression is a side effect. Data options are becoming more robust these days, and anyone that can survive with their data plan on an iPhone or Android can survive with a BB10 device.

    At the end of the day, you can't have your cake and eat it too, and beggars really can't be choosers. If BB wants to survive, it has to remain competitive, which means some of the features of BIS had to be dropped in order to make this new system work and remain competitive and modern enough to keep themselves above water. I'm not telling you to "move on" or "get with the times." I'm just telling you why things have gone in the direction they have, and that eventually, whether it's five years down the road or 15 years down the road, BIS will be no more. As time goes on, BIS support will drop, as BB will need to focus its efforts on supporting the BB10 (and future) operating systems. Eventually older BB devices will no longer be sold.

    It's the wonderful Catch-22 that BB has found itself in, and unfortunately, you can't please everyone.

    JB
    04-05-13 07:20 AM
  3. Slamdunc1's Avatar
    I agree, I was very surprised to see that bb10 launched with a lack of many of the features we had grown to love in the older os's.

    Imagine how crap bb10 would have Ben without the 8 month or whatever delay.

    I personally think the absence of bis has been very poorly communicated.

    I am sticking to my z10, but I think that BlackBerry should be making efforts to bring back at least the most popular features ASAP of the older os. At least take email to be on par with the older devices.

    Mike posted via CB10
    04-05-13 07:21 AM
  4. LordCrankypants's Avatar
    When it comes to email, I agree that the flexibility should be there to at least choose how long messages stay on the device for. My text messages don't delete automatically, so why should my emails?

    Fortunately for the interim, you can save email messages on the device and then they don't get deleted. The other thing I've noticed (at least with Gmail) is that even if a message is deleted, it is not actually gone, it's simply moved to a different folder that's not the inbox. I will have to check if that folder is accessible on my device, but I doubt it. Fortunately, the browser is amazing, and if I really need an email, I can just go through there and retrieve it. I'm sure the option to keep emails longer will come in a future update.

    JB
    04-05-13 07:26 AM
  5. BB Marissa's Avatar
    Reading trough the forums and it's clear a new trend is emerging, some who made the jump to BB10 are looking down on those who prefer BBOS and BIS and wish not everything was left behind with BB10.

    All the BlackBerry strong points like BIS somehow became a reason to ridicule and call antiquated.

    They behave like those who jumped to iphones and android not so long ago. There is a good reason many of us never changed and those reasons still apply today.

    Looking forward to being told to "get on with the times" "move on" and whatever else
    Not sure you can say that people are looking down on those who prefer BIS / >OS 7 users. No one can argue that BlackBerry where overtaken in most areas of smartphone usage and that things had to change, and not all of these changes are going to be liked by previous BlackBerry users. The last thing I would want to happen is for BlackBerry to spend all their time re-introducing all the previous functionality to BB10 as much of it was outdated.

    I'm sorry to say it but they must "get on with the times" to continue as a force in the market, else they will just go bust.

    Its a bit like HMV in the UK, its a brand that many love, but by continuing to focus on CD and DVD sales, they went bust. Yes they tweak the edges of the business to introduce other things, but it wasn't enough for them to keep going.
    04-05-13 07:34 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Without BIS the Z10 is literally unusable on 2g networks, emails take minutes to send vs literally 1 second on bis, same email account and you can forget about sending attachments. Roaming with the z10 would be simply scary, I refreshed twitter and facebook twice, loaded a few web pages and it used 10mb of data. This is a huge drawback for me and many others.

    It's simply not acceptable, not to mention that I'm suffering badly from the email bug where I can't send attachments or reply to emails.

    Z10 might be fast, but in some situattions it's super slow.
    niss63 likes this.
    04-05-13 07:36 AM
  7. ibpluto's Avatar
    I still think other than the browser, the 9900 is one of the best devices on the market. No shame in rocking one of those

    With that said BB10 is a better platform. Having tinker functions so you can infinetly set your ring tones and bedside mode settings is nice, but BB10 in QNX is buttery smooth. Older OS platforms not so much.

    I agree thou, "looking down" on someone still using OS5,6 &7 is pretty immature.
    niss63 likes this.
    04-05-13 07:39 AM
  8. tstrike34's Avatar
    Reading trough the forums and it's clear a new trend is emerging, some who made the jump to BB10 are looking down on those who prefer BBOS and BIS and wish not everything was left behind with BB10.

    All the BlackBerry strong points like BIS somehow became a reason to ridicule and call antiquated.

    They behave like those who jumped to iphones and android not so long ago. There is a good reason many of us never changed and those reasons still apply today.

    Looking forward to being told to "get on with the times" "move on" and whatever else

    Whoa dude. Thats a big *** paintbrush you are painting with there...

    *Gets out the flame retardant suit "This one will be a 3 alarm fire in a few"*
    04-05-13 07:41 AM
  9. BB Marissa's Avatar
    Without BIS the Z10 is literally unusable on 2g networks, emails take minutes to send vs literally 1 second on bis, same email account and you can forget about sending attachments.
    Whilst I was with BlackBerry, they spent vast sums of money and effort to provide a resilient BlackBerry Infrastructure, and what happened? It still failed for days at a time knocking out whole continents, and destroying the companies credibility as an 'Always on' system.
    They had to make a change.
    04-05-13 07:42 AM
  10. mikegcox's Avatar
    I gave my 9790 to my daughter when I got the Z10 and yesterday I borrowed it from her. I was reminded immediately why I was a BlackBerry guy. I think BBOS has had its day, but small easy to use, comfortable to hold smartphones are still preferable to me. I am already sick of playing games so now I use the Z10 for all the same things I used my 9790 for and for that I sacrifice comfort. Here is to hoping BlackBerry can fit this awesome OS into a comfortable form factor.

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-13 07:43 AM
  11. LordCrankypants's Avatar
    Without BIS the Z10 is literally unusable on 2g networks, emails take minutes to send vs literally 1 second on bis, same email account and you can forget about sending attachments. Roaming with the z10 would be simply scary, I refreshed twitter and facebook twice, loaded a few web pages and it used 10mb of data. This is a huge drawback for me and many others.

    It's simply not acceptable, not to mention that I'm suffering badly from the email bug where I can't send attachments or reply to emails.

    Z10 might be fast, but in some situattions it's super slow.
    I've never had an issue sending an email on 2G.

    Roaming will be the same as it is with any other device that's out there apart from legacy BBOS devices. Again, side effect of having the LTE antenna and a more modern system. As for the email bug, that's all it is, a bug. It's not inherent in the OS and doesn't effect everyone. Have you tried deleting and re-initializing the account?

    If it's not acceptable for you, stick with your legacy device as that's the only way you're going to get those things you want. Just know that eventually the support for those things will eventually disappear.

    JB
    04-05-13 07:44 AM
  12. MikeLip's Avatar
    I still think other than the browser, the 9900 is one of the best devices on the market. No shame in rocking one of those

    With that said BB10 is a better platform. Having tinker functions so you can infinetly set your ring tones and bedside mode settings is nice, but BB10 in QNX is buttery smooth. Older OS platforms not so much.

    I agree thou, "looking down" on someone still using OS5,6 &7 is pretty immature.
    My last BB was the 9930, and I was absolutely in love with it. BIS was nice to have, but I can do without it. 4G LTE is widespread and reliable where I am and work, so I don't think I will miss the speed bump from compression. The thing that kind of turns my crank and brought me back to BB is 10. OS7 was good and the fixed a mess of problems. But it was getting a little long in the tooth. Still it seemed pretty stable to me with lots fewer battery pulls needed and I'd still be on it if I hadn't seen and fallen in lust with the S3. Now of course the Z10 is incoming and I can't wait for it
    04-05-13 07:47 AM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Whilst I was with BlackBerry, they spent vast sums of money and effort to provide a resilient BlackBerry Infrastructure, and what happened? It still failed for days at a time knocking out whole continents, and destroying the companies credibility as an 'Always on' system.
    They had to make a change.
    That infrastructure is still there, BES is still using it, so is BB10 to a certain extent. Since then literally everybody had outages, Apple, Google etc, quite lenghty ones. The NOCs are not going away, they still cost them money but it also made them money. Not anymore.

    In the meantime since the update a month ago I've been having email "outage" with my hosted work accounts, can't send any attachements or reply to emails. How is that better for me?

    Seems to be BB are giving up on the small business owners, corporations are still cateresd to and also the general consumer. But the small business owner/self employed people can't reply on it anymore.

    I went from one client asking me how I always respond to emails so fast to "did you get my email?" Or "stop sending me the same emails 10 times"
    niss63 likes this.
    04-05-13 07:52 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I've never had an issue sending an email on 2G.

    Roaming will be the same as it is with any other device that's out there apart from legacy BBOS devices. Again, side effect of having the LTE antenna and a more modern system. As for the email bug, that's all it is, a bug. It's not inherent in the OS and doesn't effect everyone. Have you tried deleting and re-initializing the account?

    If it's not acceptable for you, stick with your legacy device as that's the only way you're going to get those things you want. Just know that eventually the support for those things will eventually disappear.

    JB
    I deleted it and set it back about 50 times with different combinations with no luck and a month later there is no fix. This is what I get all day.
    Attached Thumbnails Looking down on the ones that still prefer BBOS-img-20130404-00001.jpg  
    niss63 likes this.
    04-05-13 08:06 AM
  15. NursingNinja's Avatar
    I will say this. The one down side to the old blackberry system that drove me nuts was that I could not file my emails from the phone itself. I had to use the PlayBook or my computer to put them into folders. I like that this is no longer an issue on ny yahoo email and I can file from any device. I do miss the push functionality on all email types, I miss the notification options, I miss some of my old apps.

    But truth be told I would rather switch to this than to an iOS or android as I know some or all of that stuff might come in the future. Also I do like some of the new changes. I am even getting used to this damn keyboard!

    I actually like BlackBerry Maps, it has served me well so far. The Voice assistance is great as I finally have one that can make appointments on the calendar. Vlingo never could do that.



    Posted via CB10
    04-05-13 08:07 AM
  16. sgt_snacks-64's Avatar
    I still have a soft spot for the old Berrys. If I had the choice of only an iPhone or a 9900, I'd grab the 9900 in an instant.

    I was in Belfast last weekend, and the surrounding areas, I know the signal can get a bit ropey at times "Especially in Comber".

    Don't know what to suggest until some fixes come along, apart from grabbing a cheap curve to keep your work emails going. Can't say I'm having the issues you've stated though

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-13 08:16 AM
  17. sgt_snacks-64's Avatar
    Oh, and just for the record, you'd have to have an IQ lower than your shoe size to start hating on OS <10 users.

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-13 08:20 AM
  18. BB Marissa's Avatar
    That infrastructure is still there, BES is still using it, so is BB10 to a certain extent. Since then literally everybody had outages, Apple, Google etc, quite lenghty ones. The NOCs are not going away, they still cost them money but it also made them money. Not anymore.
    Yes, Apple, and Google have had outages, but only in the components that require a 'cloud' service. The primary functionality of email was not affected. When BIS went down, the primary reason why it took them so long to come back up, was the load it was under delivering email.

    In the meantime since the update a month ago I've been having email "outage" with my hosted work accounts, can't send any attachements or reply to emails. How is that better for me?
    I don't think any one is saying that it would defiantly be better for you, however it is likely that it will b better for the majority. Sorry.

    Seems to be BB are giving up on the small business owners, corporations are still cateresd to and also the general consumer. But the small business owner/self employed people can't reply on it anymore.
    Read any tech website/magazine and they will tell you that the future is with 'cloud' services, and the options here for small business clients to make direct connections to these services are preferable than having an intermediary system, like BIS in the way.

    I went from one client asking me how I always respond to emails so fast to "did you get my email?" Or "stop sending me the same emails 10 times"
    Sorry, but as a long time BlackBerry user you should be used to 'early adopter problems' from them. BlackBerry testing has never been the best. I remember when the 8707v was released I found a major bug in the firmware that was causing a massive battery drain the day of a dev release. When I informed the beta team, I was told that it was too late the code was being released. That was one day of dev testing to release; to say that I was not impressed was an understatement.

    I'm not saying that your opinions are wrong, its just that in general industries requirements have changed, and BlackBerry needed to go with the flow.
    As Bob Dylan put it, 'the times are a changin'
    04-05-13 08:26 AM
  19. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    I love my Z10 with BB10, but in my opinion, the legacy devices are the 2nd best phones available. They may not be fancy, but they are more powerful than any other phones, including the Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    sgt_snacks-64 likes this.
    04-05-13 08:39 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The times are not a changing, they already changed some 4 years ago but BIS advantages kept many of us loyal BB users.
    04-05-13 08:40 AM
  21. sgt_snacks-64's Avatar
    I love my Z10 with BB10, but in my opinion, the legacy devices are the 2nd best phones available. They may not be fancy, but they are more powerful than any other phones, including the Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    And what was amazing about these devices was the speed at which you could do things "Take 9900 as an Example". Although it was a "Slow" os, you could bang emails, twitter, Facebook and send some BBM messages out very promptly

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-13 08:41 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And what was amazing about these devices was the speed at which you could do things "Take 9900 as an Example". Although it was a "Slow" os, you could bang emails, twitter, Facebook and send some BBM messages out very promptly

    Posted via CB10
    The slow OS is a bit of a myth, put a 9900 and a Z10 side by side and see which one will open Twitter or Facebook first, you'll be surprised. Not to mention that it actually caches data while the Z10 will end up downloading the same data over and over again if you don't leave the app open as an active frame.
    04-05-13 08:48 AM
  23. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    The slow OS is a bit of a myth, put a 9900 and a Z10 side by side and see which one will open Twitter or Facebook first, you'll be surprised. Not to mention that it actually caches data while the Z10 will end up downloading the same data over and over again if you don't leave the app open as an active frame.
    Legacy BlackBerry phones opened Twitter faster than any other phones available. It was literally instant!

    Posted via CB10
    04-05-13 09:38 AM
  24. EauRouge's Avatar
    I just hated the NOC. When ever I wanted to browse it had to wake up... slowly


    Posted via CB10
    04-05-13 09:39 AM
  25. diegonei's Avatar
    If people are really doing that, then they are being silly.

    BBOS was a solid OS, but it reached its limits. BB10 cleans up and expands what BBOS could do. As we see updates rollout, I'm sure all our beloved features from BBOS will make the jump. They are different platforms and are expected to work differently.

    BIS... complicated matter. The one thing we know for certain is, Z10 doesn't need it. DO WE NEED IT? Another tricky question. All I can say is this: I'm a very happy Z10 camper... and I am still on BIS.
    04-05-13 09:47 AM
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