12-08-13 09:21 PM
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  1. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    I am thinking of migrating from 9700 (uff, more than 3 years) to Z10. Just stuck up with this confusion.

    Yes, I already googled, searched BB forums, CB forums, but the answer is not clear.

    What exactly eight active frames means?

    My understanding:
    1. IM/social apps may not run always as they are integrated with hub and messages are pushed to hub and can be replied from hub. Unless one decide to open particular app to use.
    2. Headless apps are those which run in background and keep on doing something like wall paper changing app, which are not allowed in BB right now but may come in future
    3. Only eight apps run at any given time. While ninth app is opened, 1st opened app is closed.

    My confusion is at no 3.
    I open Docs to Go to do some work and then open seven more apps. If I open one more app,
    a) Docs to Go will close and whatever I was doing shall be lost
    b) Docs to Go will disappear from active frame. But I have to go to menu page and open Docs to Go app, my work will be there where I left. No data lost.

    Just replace Docs to Go with Browser (with multi tabs open!!) or music player or news feed like Thomson Reuters or any work side apps like SAP related apps. All will close without warning, losing data?

    Or, am I missing something?

    (Please don't reply "why you want to run so many apps at a time" or "Is Thomson Reuters feed is so much important". The question is about OS functionality. And even if the outcome is negative, I will still migrate to Z10. Of course with the understanding of BB10's limitations.)
    12-05-13 12:19 PM
  2. diegonei's Avatar
    You can only have 8 apps running as frames at all times. That means that apps that don't run in the background (headless) must be open for you to actuallt benefit from them.

    Now, let me go into each of your questions.

    My understanding:
    1. IM/social apps may not run always as they are integrated with hub and messages are pushed to hub and can be replied from hub. Unless one decide to open particular app to use.

    Since they are integrated wit hthe HUB, you'll get notifications no matter if the app is on a frame or not. Notifications and messages. That is also true for Gtalk and Whatapp.


    2. Headless apps are those which run in background and keep on doing something like wall paper changing app, which are not allowed in BB right now but may come in future

    There are a number of headless apps out there, but full support will only roll out with 10.2.1.

    3. Only eight apps run at any given time. While ninth app is opened, 1st opened app is closed.

    Not the first. Say I open (in this order) LinkedIn, Twitter, Browser, BBM, Music, Bridge, Story Maker and Facebook. The I go to Browser, then Music. LinkedIn was the one sitting at the bottom the whole time. That's the one that gets closed. if I had gone to LinkedIn then opened an app, Twitter would be the bottom one and would have closed.

    My confusion is at no 3.
    I open Docs to Go to do some work and then open seven more apps. If I open one more app,
    a) Docs to Go will close and whatever I was doing shall be lost
    b) Docs to Go will disappear from active frame. But I have to go to menu page and open Docs to Go app, my work will be there where I left. No data lost.

    I answered it above heh, but good question on Docs2Go... First, it would have to be pushed to the bottom of the list to be at risk. But let's say it did... Good news! As soon as you ask for a new document, it prompts you if you wanna recover the work you were doing!

    Just replace Docs to Go with Browser (with multi tabs open!!) or music player or news feed like Thomson Reuters or any work side apps like SAP related apps. All will close without warning, losing data?

    Yes. But then again, you have to push them to number 8 and only then open a new app before that happens.

    Or, am I missing something?

    (Please don't reply "why you want to run so many apps at a time" or "Is Thomson Reuters feed is so much important". The question is about OS functionality. And even if the outcome is negative, I will still migrate to Z10. Of course with the understanding of BB10's limitations.)
    Why you want to run so many apps at a time?
    Last edited by diegonei; 12-05-13 at 12:44 PM.
    KingOfQwerty and XDrew42 like this.
    12-05-13 12:32 PM
  3. stabstabdie's Avatar
    b) Docs to Go will disappear from active frame. But I have to go to menu page and open Docs to Go app, my work will be there where I left. No data lost

    THIS - you get a message saying the last file didnt close properly do you want to restore? yes or no.
    if you select yes, your work is there.
    You will not likely have more than 8 apps open at a time. You will get sick of the frames.
    KingOfQwerty likes this.
    12-05-13 12:43 PM
  4. diegonei's Avatar
    b) Docs to Go will disappear from active frame. But I have to go to menu page and open Docs to Go app, my work will be there where I left. No data lost

    THIS - you get a message saying the last file didnt close properly do you want to restore? yes or no.
    if you select yes, your work is there.
    You will not likely have more than 8 apps open at a time. You will get sick of the frames.
    I usually close my frames I won't lie. And usually, 5 frames is all I need to get stuff going. I don't recall ever going 6.

    Today, in order to test and reply, was the first time I've ever seen an app close due to being pushed to #8.

    But I understand the OP's convern, coming from BBOS where you could have 8 apps running (and then a 9th would probably make the device go slow. I kid! Or do I? Good old days of the 9780... Still, you would have a slow device but no fear of self-closing apps).
    12-05-13 12:47 PM
  5. stabstabdie's Avatar
    I usually close my frames I won't lie. And usually, 5 frames is all I need to get stuff going. I don't recall ever going 6.

    Today, in order to test and reply, was the first time I've ever seen an app close due to being pushed to #8.

    But I understand the OP's convern, coming from BBOS where you could have 8 apps running (and then a 9th would probably make the device go slow. I kid! Or do I? Good old days of the 9780... Still, you would have a slow device but no fear of self-closing apps).
    Lol first for me too.
    diegonei likes this.
    12-05-13 01:12 PM
  6. ypwandrews's Avatar
    I rarely have more than three or four open at any time since it's so easy to close them, unlike my iPhone 5. It's fun to flick them off, but there are so many of them, since nothing ever really closes until you go in a purposefully kill it.
    12-05-13 01:43 PM
  7. stabstabdie's Avatar
    If I don't NEED it open, it's not open.
    Talk2watch is the only one open usually.
    12-05-13 02:10 PM
  8. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    So its like this. The "furthest app accessed" is closed. Now where is this to-be-closed app's frame sitting? Top left of first frame page or bottom right of second frame page?

    Reason: If I'm flowing between OS (say, hub to menu page) to open 9th app, I should see which app shall be closed?
    12-05-13 02:18 PM
  9. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    b) Docs to Go will disappear from active frame. But I have to go to menu page and open Docs to Go app, my work will be there where I left. No data lost

    THIS - you get a message saying the last file didnt close properly do you want to restore? yes or no.
    if you select yes, your work is there.
    You will not likely have more than 8 apps open at a time. You will get sick of the frames.
    For Docs2Go, yes, that's fine. But what about other apps, say music or an hour long movie feed closed in between
    12-05-13 02:20 PM
  10. stabstabdie's Avatar
    So its like this. The "furthest app accessed" is closed. Now where is this to-be-closed app's frame sitting? Top left of first frame page or bottom right of second frame page?

    Reason: If I'm flowing between OS (say, hub to menu page) to open 9th app, I should see which app shall be closed?
    Bottom right
    diegonei likes this.
    12-05-13 02:26 PM
  11. stabstabdie's Avatar
    For Docs2Go, yes, that's fine. But what about other apps, say music or an hour long movie feed closed in between
    Most apps will not be effected.
    If the music or movie is on your device you can skip around.
    If it's streaming, you can still usually skip ahead and rebuffer.

    Give a real life example when this would actually be an issue and tell me what app.
    Seriously. How many freaking apps do you need open? You can only see four frames at once anyways so I know it's not for the info displayed there.
    12-05-13 02:28 PM
  12. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    I rarely have more than three or four open at any time since it's so easy to close them, unlike my iPhone 5. It's fun to flick them off, but there are so many of them, since nothing ever really closes until you go in a purposefully kill it.
    I understand that this is something differentiating the OS (Even from BBOS, as pointed above) and will give a very steep learning curve.

    But I couldnot see any documentation on this in BB sites.

    Yes, Logically nobody works more than 3 or 4 apps at any given time. But, it could be annoying to somebody to remember this factor. Btw, did open apps (say Docs2Go with a half page word file) consume CPU, RAM and Battery when in idle state?
    12-05-13 02:29 PM
  13. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    Bottom right
    Oops. I have to swipe down to see which app will close and decide!
    12-05-13 02:35 PM
  14. drrobert_Taco's Avatar
    It is somewhat conceivable that this could happen with a music app since you might not go back to that very often, but with a movie I imagine you'd be watching it and thus would never get in a situation where you opened up 8 different apps before going back to the video.

    I only say somewhat conceivable because like others have noted, it's very rare to be in a situation where you want 8 apps open at once. I've gone through to 6 if I get really busy or caught up in something, but once you start having to scroll down to the 2nd pane of active frames, you tend to start closing the ones you're done with!

    did open apps (say Docs2Go with a half page word file) consume CPU, RAM and Battery when in idle state?
    Yes, of course, if the app is open it's going to use resources. If you dont want it to use resources, you can close it...
    12-05-13 02:40 PM
  15. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    Most apps will not be effected.
    If the music or movie is on your device you can skip around.
    If it's streaming, you can still usually skip ahead and rebuffer.

    Give a real life example when this would actually be an issue and tell me what app.
    Seriously. How many freaking apps do you need open? You can only see four frames at once anyways so I know it's not for the info displayed there.
    This could be my routine
    In morning I open weather app(1) and see the forecast and leave it to check in between the day.
    During commuting I listen to music(2) and read Reuters news feed(3).
    Ding... an important email arrives with attachment. DocstoGo(4)
    As 9 am nears, open the trading apps(5) and see what is happening in markets.
    While starting work, opens Toggl(6) to feed timesheet data.
    Open Remember the Milk(7) and glance to-dos
    What was in the note yesterday I done in iPad? Open Evernote(8)
    OK, let us see is there any update in Box?
    Oops.

    I have 17 pinned app-tabs in my firefox(mac), of which 5 may go to hub. Others has to flipped between them. of course everyday, I don't flow through all 17. But they are ready for my viewing is nice.
    12-05-13 02:53 PM
  16. stabstabdie's Avatar
    This could be my routine
    In morning I open weather app(1) and see the forecast and leave it to check in between the day.
    During commuting I listen to music(2) and read Reuters news feed(3).
    Ding... an important email arrives with attachment. DocstoGo(4)
    As 9 am nears, open the trading apps(5) and see what is happening in markets.
    While starting work, opens Toggl(6) to feed timesheet data.
    Open Remember the Milk(7) and glance to-dos
    What was in the note yesterday I done in iPad? Open Evernote(8)
    OK, let us see is there any update in Box?
    Oops.

    I have 17 pinned app-tabs in my firefox(mac), of which 5 may go to hub. Others has to flipped between them. of course everyday, I don't flow through all 17. But they are ready for my viewing is nice.
    I get that it CAN happen. But how often DOES it happen.
    One could make a very strong argument that the extra seconds launching weather,news, stocks and Evernote would be many less wasted minutes throughout an entire day than the loss of performance from having 16 app running.

    And really, how many weather checks do you need a day? You wake up, check the weather, plan accordingly and close it for another day.
    12-05-13 03:18 PM
  17. drrobert_Taco's Avatar
    You'll quickly find that Z10's battery will not live up to your expectations either, if that is how you would like to use your phone. Consider the Z30 or closing apps from time to time.
    12-05-13 03:38 PM
  18. Chanlion's Avatar
    Contrary to some people sayings. I just keep the active frames open. Too lazy.

    If they support the active update, they only update when you wake up your phone. When screen's off, it stops updating. And they update only when necessary or at certain intervals of your choosing. You choose on the individual apps settings. Using very little battery.
    12-05-13 05:00 PM
  19. III 4U2NV III's Avatar
    I leave 4 or 5 open (BeWeather Pro, WhatsApp, Wallpaper Changer, and Battery Lover). I used to leave Instagram open but found it to suck up memory. My apps close due to low memory (I'm guessing) before I can have that many apps open at one time.

    Posted via CB10
    12-05-13 05:19 PM
  20. Lostfile's Avatar
    I understand how this could seem like an issue, OP, but I think you'll come to find that you'll close out of apps when you don't need them. I rarely have more than four apps running at once and when I'm done with one - it's just a simple swipe and tap. If I need them open again, I just simply reopen the app and go on with my day. The weather, music, and Reuters, and 'Remember the Milk' apps sound short-lived in your routine and would most likely be closed out of when you're done with them.
    12-05-13 05:49 PM
  21. BobWalker's Avatar
    A lot of apps stay in the state they were in when you closed them. I have a chess app. If I close it completely, the next time I open it, my game is at the exact move it was at when I closed it. Data loss is really not a concern if that was the question.
    KingOfQwerty likes this.
    12-05-13 06:04 PM
  22. diegonei's Avatar
    This could be my routine
    In morning I open weather app(1) and see the forecast and leave it to check in between the day.
    During commuting I listen to music(2) and read Reuters news feed(3).

    You'll eventually close music yourself. (2) There is really no need to keep the app there if you're not listening to anything.

    Ding... an important email arrives with attachment. DocstoGo(4)
    As 9 am nears, open the trading apps(5) and see what is happening in markets.
    While starting work, opens Toggl(6) to feed timesheet data.
    Open Remember the Milk(7) and glance to-dos

    Again, you won't keep either open for long. They would probably be the ones dropping to the bottom and being closed.

    What was in the note yesterday I done in iPad? Open Evernote(8)

    Don't open Evernote... Open Remember.

    OK, let us see is there any update in Box?
    Oops.

    BAM. You won't be opening the BOX app for that, it does not show anything but sync options. (You'd probably open Files though. )

    I have 17 pinned app-tabs in my firefox(mac), of which 5 may go to hub. Others has to flipped between them. of course everyday, I don't flow through all 17. But they are ready for my viewing is nice.
    Really pal, you're overthinking this. It's a very VERY fast learning curve. You'll just get used to not keeping stuff you don't need in frames.

    Stuff you need, you'll be using constantly and they won't close due to that.

    It may feel strange since you haven't used it yet, but it is actually very efficient.
    12-05-13 07:21 PM
  23. eddy_berry's Avatar
    From experience you will never have more than 6 active frames open, but if you do you will quickly realise that apps you haven't touched in some time end up at the bottom. In your example Box would close the weather app. I'm sure you would close that app anyway and not even think about it.
    12-05-13 08:48 PM
  24. BB30000's Avatar
    I have never had an issue with this and neither will you, in fact you are the first person I have heard even worry about such a thing. This is true multitasking at it's finest!! There really is no need to have 8+ apps going. I have 1,2 maybe 3 and can go back and forth between them, my emails, messages in the hub etc with ease! If this is your worry before you even own the phone then you need to figure out what you actually want. Heck the iphone 5s can't multitask worth a sh** and your worried about 9 apps!?? C'Mon man!

    Posted via BlackBerry Z10
    12-05-13 09:14 PM
  25. diegonei's Avatar
    I have never had an issue with this and neither will you, in fact you are the first person I have heard even worry about such a thing. This is true multitasking at it's finest!! There really is no need to have 8+ apps going. I have 1,2 maybe 3 and can go back and forth between them, my emails, messages in the hub etc with ease! If this is your worry before you even own the phone then you need to figure out what you actually want. Heck the iphone 5s can't multitask worth a sh** and your worried about 9 apps!?? C'Mon man!

    Posted via BlackBerry Z10
    When BB10 released, we all were worried. Specially PlayBook users that knew for a fact the device could handle way more than 8 apps.

    Just turns out 8 is probably the magical number for apps you need open. What's hurting the OS right now (and justifies such questions) is the poor state of headless APIs.

    But 10.2.1 is coming fast paced. We should have plenty of background supporting apps soon.
    12-06-13 08:03 AM
39 12

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