01-12-14 06:00 PM
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tools
  1. LuVJuGGs's Avatar
    Yeah - NFC rocks, especially if someone gets a hold of your credit card and goes on a blitz with under $50 transactions...

    There is ZERO security on under $50 transactions with NFC. They should still make you enter a pin.
    Riddle me this: When signatures were the "security" feature you could buy really expensive stuff like TV etc with a stolen CC, hardly anyone checked the signature. Funny enough I recall most grocery stores checked it as I signed and for relatively insignificant purchases.

    Then came the chips, I loathed having to enter my pin and found it a hassle but soon realised its either that or a signature (that hardly anyone checked) and I have to do something for the transaction either sign or enter a number, it made no sense to loathe it. Now I would get confused if I had to swipe and sign on paper.

    I also find the banks are thoroughly invested in catching thieves, I have gotten a call from MasterCard, VISA, AmEx and my local bank when they detected suspicious activity, one time in Mexico I tried to take cash out of the ATM in a rather confined space and the system was "processing" for a bit too long and next thing I know my cell phone rings and the operator wants to know if it was infact me trying to get the money, she asked some security questions and bam the machine spat out the $$.

    Othertimes shopping online I had my card suspended, I am not sure how long a $50 shopping binge will last. Perhaps in a mall but you would be caught on several cameras. The card would have to be stolen without the owner noticing, so just like anything we carry on person from your desk keys to your gun, phone and wallet be vigilant and dont loose your stuff.

    Thieves will always want to steal whatever it is, they just dont go away with time, they change as the times change...if you feel insecure about it I am sure they will give you the option to not use the NFC feature on your card and make the necessary changes to your account or even reduce your NFC limit.
    12-16-13 09:50 PM
  2. kevinnugent's Avatar
    For once nugent is correct.
    That's what I'd call a back handed compliment. Acknowledgement with an insult. Well done.
    12-16-13 10:17 PM
  3. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I think it's $35 here, where you don't need anything but the chip. McDonalds were the first to introduce it, and there's a few service stations like 7-11 who have taken it up. Very rare I spend less than $35 at a petrol station, and I wouldn't spend anything at McDonalds if I can help it.
    12-16-13 10:18 PM
  4. gbell11's Avatar
    Me too today. All the workers stopped and came over to watch. 6 people! Than the people started to ask questions about the phone etc

    Posted via CB10
    scrapmetal58 and Korepab like this.
    12-16-13 10:50 PM
  5. raino's Avatar
    It was alluded to that Blackberry was the only platform that supported it.
    WRONG. Read the OP again, and quote me the part where the OP says that Android does not support this, or says anything about Android. You may even quote subsequent posts prior to your first one in this thread (#3) where anyone said that BlackBerry was the only platform supporting this technology.

    You have been caught thread crapping. Probably not the first time, and unfortunately not the last.
    12-16-13 11:10 PM
  6. Omnitech's Avatar
    You would have to be running the app. If you don't like the way the app reacts to beacons, you would delete the app. If Neiman Marcus annoys people with their iBeacons, people will stop using their app.


    The problem here is that it is OPT OUT. And if, as many including Apple are proposing, NFC becomes "forgotten" and ibeacons becomes the de-facto "electronic payment standard", then I will have been roped into a situation where I am now inconvenienced (because NFC support has waned) and forced to use ibeacon for electronic payment transactions, or go back to cash or traditional credit cards.

    I don't give a leap whether some Needless Markup customers like ibeacons or not.




    Or if you don't want to be tracked, you can turn off bluetooth all together.


    That's like a doctor telling someone who has some sort of curable leg injury to just stop using the leg. Last time I checked, I had all sorts of things that I personally use Bluetooth for that I am not willing to forego simply to avoid some unwanted tracking of my every movement that I didn't approve of in the first place.
    12-16-13 11:25 PM
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
    No, I absolutely don't. I'm not worried about privacy at that level. I already know that every time my phone connects with a tower, somebody knows where I am.

    And because the operators of those towers are only a very small number of typically very large and very highly-regulated entities, we are in a much better position to know about and/or control (legislatively and otherwise) how that data is handled. (In fact, the data has been widely abused in recent years in this country, and the citizens here are now finally starting to get this and do something about it. In large measure thanks to a widely ridiculed and brave whistle-blower who ultimately risked his life to inform people about such things.)



    I know that every time I use a free WiFi service, someone knows where I am.

    Only because entities like Google have been exploiting legislative loopholes to create giant databases of such info which they share and correlate with massive amounts of other data collected from unrelated sources, that some of us don't think should be allowed. (Europeans, as just one example, take a far dimmer view of such practices than US government - so far.)
    12-16-13 11:35 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    The problem here is that it is OPT OUT. And if, as many including Apple are proposing, NFC becomes "forgotten" and ibeacons becomes the de-facto "electronic payment standard", then I will have been roped into a situation where I am now inconvenienced (because NFC support has waned) and forced to use ibeacon for electronic payment transactions, or go back to cash or traditional credit cards.
    Oh, I'm not one of those that think iBeacon becomes a payment standard. I don't think it will be widespread enough for that. I don't even think it's the right technology for that.

    I think NFC will continue to be the standard for payment, if for no other reason than there are so many millions of PoS units out there that support it. It also has the backing of the two major payment networks.

    I see iBeacon as a parallel standard for deals/coupons, interactive displays, indoor location, a less awkward way to initiate peer-peer connections, that sort of thing.
    12-17-13 12:02 AM
  9. Omnitech's Avatar
    Oh, I'm not one of those that think iBeacon becomes a payment standard. I don't think it will be widespread enough for that. I don't even think it's the right technology for that.

    I think NFC will continue to be the standard for payment, if for no other reason than there are so many millions of PoS units out there that support it. It also has the backing of the two major payment networks.

    I see iBeacon as a parallel standard for deals/coupons, interactive displays, indoor location, a less awkward way to initiate peer-peer connections, that sort of thing.


    I should modify my previous statement.

    After reviewing a bunch of press on iBeacon, it seems that it has not really been Apple pushing the "NFC is dead" line (except implicitly via the fact that they've never supported it on any of their devices), it is the chuckleheads in the press who keep writing article after article proclaiming "ibeacon will spell the end of NFC".
    12-17-13 12:32 AM
  10. slagman5's Avatar
    Of course you could write an app to do exactly that (customize actions based on location), and many people will write such apps. The TiVo app is just one that I wrote for myself to play with iBeacon. It's very simple and does exactly what I wanted. The idea can and will be extended.

    The point is it's a signal, just like NFC is. The only difference is that it works over longer distances.

    Your mixing up what a particular app can do versus what the underlying technology supports.




    Again, you're focusing on particular apps or use cases, not on the underlying technology and all the different use cases it can support.

    Let's say the Gap makes an app that reacts to beacons. Or the Louvre makes an app that allows you to customize your own tour. Those are apps you can choose to use or choose not to.

    On the other hand, iBeacon also supports a virtual tap mode where the two devices have to be extremely close to register (similar to how you can touch your iPhone to an AppleTV to set it up). It's like a tap, except not quite so fussy about exact orientation.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Again, I know you want to promote the technology your phone supports, but the fact is, you are comparing something that requires somewhat pricey devices to work with while I can get a pack of 20 NFC stickers for a few dollars that I can hide in all kinds of discreet places since they are literally as thin as a piece of paper. Basically a KISS method versus a "let's make it more complicated than it needs to be so it sounds really cool on paper" method. I honestly would not want any of the features you suggested that you cannot do with NFC.

    You're talking to a guy that doesn't even like to use the "automatic" headlights in my car simply because I don't trust these simple algorithms to actually know when I actually want certain things done. I like to be in control over that because when something of mine automatically does something that I do not want it to do at that time, it actually annoys me...

    I'm sure ibeacon will be successful, since Apple introduced it, that means the masses will think it's the best thing since sliced bread regardless of whether it suits their needs or not. So worry not my friend.

    Edit: Also, does that also mean you have to keep blue-tooth on all the time in order to use it?? If so, then definitely no thanks. And it's not like I don't use blue-tooth, the music gateway in my car uses BT, but the NFC actually turns my BT on to connect with the gateway, when I leave the car, the BT turns itself off. I'll never leave it on all of the time...
    12-17-13 02:27 AM
  11. nnik's Avatar
    No, I absolutely don't. I'm not worried about privacy at that level. I already know that every time my phone connects with a tower, somebody knows where I am. I know that every time I use a free WiFi service, someone knows where I am.

    I know my bank knows everywhere I have been for some 15 years now. I know Nordstrom, and Costco, and CVS and a whole group of other companies know more about me than probably half my family does.
    every time you use anything other than cash your whereabouts are known (credit, debit, gift card etc)

    .
    12-17-13 03:58 AM
  12. app_Developer's Avatar
    You're talking to a guy that doesn't even like to use the "automatic" headlights in my car simply because I don't trust these simple algorithms to actually know when I actually want certain things done. I like to be in control over that because when something of mine automatically does something that I do not want it to do at that time, it actually annoys me...
    That's interesting! I get extremely annoyed when my wife or the dealership service techs turn off my automatic headlights. I shift manually about half the time, but I expect lights to take care of themselves for me.

    BTW, since you've now brought it up twice, my other current daily driver is an N5, which has NFC obviously, so with me it's not an issue of defending something "my" phone has. "My" phones change quite frequently because of the field I'm in. So often that I hardly consider them mine at all. They're just tools.

    For me I'm more interested in what different companies are going to do with beacons. I'm particularly excited about indoor location, because many of us have wanted that for a long time and there are dozens of interesting use cases there.

    It's not for everyone, of course. That's why people make different kinds of phones.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    12-17-13 05:06 AM
  13. kevinnugent's Avatar
    That's interesting! I get extremely annoyed when my wife or the dealership service techs turn off my automatic headlights. I shift manually about half the time, but I expect lights to take care of themselves for me.

    BTW, since you've now brought it up twice, my other current daily driver is an N5, which has NFC obviously, so with me it's not an issue of defending something "my" phone has. "My" phones change quite frequently because of the field I'm in. So often that I hardly consider them mine at all.

    For me I'm more interested in what different companies are going to do with beacons. I'm particularly excited about indoor location, because many of us have wanted that for a long time.

    It's not for everyone, of course. That's why people make different kinds of phones.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Exactly. Different strokes. Two of the absolute features I insisted on when I bought a new car recently was it must have auto lights and auto wipers. Oh, and front and back parking sensors. People like different things.
    12-17-13 05:10 AM
  14. randall2580's Avatar
    Just what we all need: more Big Brother wannabes tracking everything we do, everywhere we walk, and give them more opportunities to turn us into advertising-inundated zombies.

    No thanks. I'll take something like NFC, which I have more control over, over such things, any day.
    The sheer volume of iPhones out there will make it a reality. I am not saying I favor it, only that Apple does.

    Sort of OT but in line with your comment, saw this on Bloomberg yesterday, what are we going to do then when they use this...

    Smile: Companies Use Face Recognition to Write Code: Video - Bloomberg
    12-17-13 11:43 AM
  15. Darth Wader's Avatar
    The sheer volume of iPhones out there will make it a reality. I am not saying I favor it, only that Apple does.

    Sort of OT but in line with your comment, saw this on Bloomberg yesterday, what are we going to do then when they use this...

    Smile: Companies Use Face Recognition to Write Code: Video - Bloomberg
    Well, it looks like I'll be buying myself a Guy Fawkes mask.

    Posted via CB10
    randall2580 and FF22 like this.
    12-17-13 12:36 PM
  16. Omnitech's Avatar
    Well, it looks like I'll be buying myself a Guy Fawkes mask.

    Yeah this stuff is getting pretty out of hand.

    Tech geeks are infamous for doing stuff because they can, without the slightest regards for the wider societal implications of it.

    "Oh look, I just invented the lobotomy! Kewl!!"
    slagman5 likes this.
    12-17-13 02:07 PM
  17. slagman5's Avatar
    That's interesting! I get extremely annoyed when my wife or the dealership service techs turn off my automatic headlights. I shift manually about half the time, but I expect lights to take care of themselves for me.

    BTW, since you've now brought it up twice, my other current daily driver is an N5, which has NFC obviously, so with me it's not an issue of defending something "my" phone has. "My" phones change quite frequently because of the field I'm in. So often that I hardly consider them mine at all. They're just tools.

    For me I'm more interested in what different companies are going to do with beacons. I'm particularly excited about indoor location, because many of us have wanted that for a long time and there are dozens of interesting use cases there.

    It's not for everyone, of course. That's why people make different kinds of phones.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    I don't like automatic headlights because I don't like them on when I first turn on my car. One reason for this is sometimes if I'm parked in front of a store, I don't want to be shining my headlights into the store, or if it's like a coffee shop it'll be shining right into some random customer's eyes, I don't want to be a ******. So I keep them off until I'm backed half way out. Also, it's hot where I live all of the time, so sometimes I sit inside my car with the engine running (for the air conditioning) while talking on the phone, looking up an address, or doing something else I need to get done before I get going, I don't want my headlights on that entire time advertising to the world that there's someone inside that car...

    And just so you know, mechanics turn off the auto headlights because they will keep the headlights on inside the shop when they have the key on (key on, engine off) to do tests and what-not and that will run down your battery if the lights stay on. So don't get annoyed that they are trying to keep you from spending $120 on a new battery for no reason...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    12-17-13 02:18 PM
  18. slagman5's Avatar
    Exactly. Different strokes. Two of the absolute features I insisted on when I bought a new car recently was it must have auto lights and auto wipers. Oh, and front and back parking sensors. People like different things.
    If I had the option to pay less to not have auto lights I definitely would rather have the money... But they are standard now, so I don't care that it is there, as long as it's an option I can choose to not use, unlike some cars that FORCE the auto-light feature... Looking at you Chevy...

    Back parking sensors I like for when I had a big truck, but other than that, never had an issue with parking without sensors in regular cars or small suv's like what I'm driving now (crossover suv). But now I keep my bike rack on the hitch of my little CUV all of the time, so sensors would actually do no good since it'll sense the bike rack and just go nuts all of the time, lol.

    So yes, good for some people, not for others. Options are good.

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    12-17-13 02:25 PM
  19. Omnitech's Avatar
    I don't like automatic headlights because I don't like them on when I first turn on my car. One reason for this is sometimes if I'm parked in front of a store, I don't want to be shining my headlights into the store, or if it's like a coffee shop it'll be shining right into some random customer's eyes, I don't want to be a ******. So I keep them off until I'm backed half way out.

    Bless you for being probably one of the last humans in this society with a sense of courtesy.

    It seems way more common to put the most obnoxious, brightest lights on your car you can find, and then adjust them so they point in everyone else's eyes.

    Or so it seems, sometimes around here.
    12-17-13 02:55 PM
  20. remus2k's Avatar
    You impressed somebody with the education level of a wet mop...

    Congratulations?
    12-17-13 03:37 PM
  21. gariac's Avatar
    from PocketLint 18 Sept 2013:

    Let's put this into a scenario: Say you own an iPhone 5S and you're walking by a Starbucks that has a beacon. When you enter that beacon's zone, the beacon will transmit special promotions, coupons, recommendations, etc, to your iPhone 5S via the Starbucks app. Beacons will also accept payments, so you can pay for a Starbucks coffee without having to bump or tap your phone against anything.

    Apple believes their answer is better and will be more widely adopted. Time will tell.

    Apple's iBeacons explained: What it is and why it matters - Pocket-lint
    Ok, except I don't have an iPhone. Also, I prefer Peets.

    But giving discounts just to iphone users is a fine way to **** off the rest of the customer base.

    What a business wants is a way to get you into the store. Hence sign up for email and get discount coupons is a better plan.

    Lastly LE BT is not secure. Apple will have to handle the transactions through iTunes.

    Posted via CB10
    12-17-13 04:55 PM
  22. slagman5's Avatar
    Bless you for being probably one of the last humans in this society with a sense of courtesy.

    It seems way more common to put the most obnoxious, brightest lights on your car you can find, and then adjust them so they point in everyone else's eyes.

    Or so it seems, sometimes around here.
    I don't understand, using your high-beams is illegal when in proximity of other drivers, yet, those new super bright headlights (which are brighter than your halogen high-beams) are legal. I don't get it...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    12-17-13 06:09 PM
  23. nnik's Avatar
    I don't understand, using your high-beams is illegal when in proximity of other drivers, yet, those new super bright headlights (which are brighter than your halogen high-beams) are legal. I don't get it...

    Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10
    it's how your lights are aimed, in countries with LH drive its slightly down and to the right

    .
    12-17-13 06:25 PM
  24. slagman5's Avatar
    it's how your lights are aimed, in countries with LH drive its slightly down and to the right

    .
    Well, so far everyone with those overpriced xenon headlights always have them aimed right into my rear-view mirror and into my eyes... They should be glad I don't have super powers because their car would have been on the side of the road upside down...

    Edit: The thing about that is, when you have that system installed, it actually deactivates the "high beam" function since it's actually supposed to act as both. Meaning it is SUPPOSED to do the function of the high-beam... so I don't get why they are not illegal since it's illegal to have your high beams on while within 250m of another car in my state. Yet another "automatic" thing for people who are too lazy to use high beams when they need to and when they are allowed to and then to turn them off when it's a bother to other drivers...
    12-17-13 06:41 PM
  25. slagman5's Avatar
    You impressed somebody with the education level of a wet mop...

    Congratulations?
    I'm a bit confused as to who your meaningless personal attack comment was meant for. Can you please elaborate? Not that it's at all important, to anyone, I'm simply curious.
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-17-13 06:45 PM
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