01-12-14 06:00 PM
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  1. kevinnugent's Avatar
    read the topic, then run your mouth.... he's saying android had it at the same time as blackberry, which it didn't, blackberry had it before android
    In fact I never said that. I've only said it's not EXCLUSIVE to Blackberry - like the statement I responded to alluded.
    app_Developer likes this.
    12-16-13 06:47 PM
  2. ppeters914's Avatar
    I think the way to make NFC BlackBerry OS10 used by more people is if more banks, carriers, and businesses make apps for it.
    Sorry.....couldn't resist.....
    scrapmetal58 and BigAl_BB9900 like this.
    12-16-13 06:50 PM
  3. kevinnugent's Avatar
    read the topic, then run your mouth.... he's saying android had it at the same time as blackberry, which it didn't, blackberry had it before android
    Originally Posted by axeman1000
    Nope sorry that was 100% Canadian made BlackBerry, secure and efficiency at its best!

    BlackBerry forever, haters never!
    My point was this is not exclusive to Blackberry. Don't get so riled up about it.


    I never mentioned anywhere who had it first. I don't give a flying monkey who had it first. It was alluded to that Blackberry was the only platform that supported it. I corrected it by saying Android did too. You jumped in boots and all and mis-read my message several times.

    Want another try at that reading comprehension quip?
    12-16-13 06:52 PM
  4. Bs06TL's Avatar
    Who cares? Why are you so concerned about this subject you think every post/reply is aimed at you? If nfc payment is readily available, I'd be all over it, and I'd encourage everybody to jump once it. I can't stand assholes standing in line paying a penny at a time or looking over receipts before signing. I'm in and out!

    Tap it and move on.

    if it's readily available, and I don't know about it, I'd research it the second I see it used. Curiosity will spread usage, period!

    Look back at how scared people were of ordering online...now it's the "norm.". As a matter of fact, 90 percent of my(and my wife's) shopping is done online. Within months, it became "norm"al for a person to order apparel and every day living necessity online.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 06:56 PM
  5. ppeters914's Avatar
    Who cares? Why are you so concerned about this subject you think every post/reply is aimed at you? If nfc payment is readily available, I'd be all over it, and I'd encourage everybody to jump once it. I can't stand assholes standing in line paying a penny at a time or looking over receipts before signing. I'm in and out!

    Tap it and move on.

    if it's readily available, and I don't know about it, I'd research it the second I see it used. Curiosity will spread usage, period!

    Look back at how scared people were of ordering online...now it's the "norm.". As a matter of fact, 90 percent of my(and my wife's) shopping is done online. Within months, it became "norm"al for a person to order apparel and every day living necessity online.

    Posted via CB10
    ^^^^^^^^^^
    THIS!!!!
    12-16-13 07:09 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    WOW, this Benjamin guy is getting so defensive, it's pretty hilarious... I am just commenting here so I can quickly jump back in here because it's quite funny and entertaining, lol. :-D
    I don't know why everyone is giving Benjamin_NYC such a hard time. What he was saying is that it is over the top to say that NFC payments by phone will be the "preferred" method of transaction in the world any time soon.

    As long as it only works for certain particular combinations of issuer and cell network, then it's going to be somewhat limited. Once somebody solves that issue, then it could really take off.

    BlackBerry actually has the NFC implementation to solve this issue by being truly carrier independent, and they've had it for some time. But they seemed reluctant to push this feature (fear of upsetting carriers?) and now they don't have the numbers or the brand to be a major player.

    Google has now caught up to BB here in their KitKat version. Now we'll see if Google is willing to go a carrier independent route. They may be too beholden to carriers to do this.

    If Apple pushes forward with BT payments (or even NFC), they won't bother with the carriers. They never care about the carriers. So that changes everything, because if an iPhone user has an HSBC or an Amex, or a Citi card, for example, it will work for her regardless of what phone network she uses. That makes adoption much easier and faster.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    kevinnugent likes this.
    12-16-13 07:14 PM
  7. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    Are you not aware of PayPass and Wave implemented by VISA and MasterCard? Those are tap by NFC systems and they are not going away. You seem to think NFC's future is dependent on adaptation by phones which it's not, and the technology is only going to grow,. The major card companies didn't invest in all those terminals for it to be a passing fad. NFC is the future and mobile platform use is going to expand.
    Did I say NFC won't expand? That right, I didn't.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 07:15 PM
  8. Benjamin_NYC's Avatar
    I don't know why everyone is giving Benjamin_NYC such a hard time. What he was saying is that it is over the top to say that NFC payments by phone will be the "preferred" method of transaction in the world any time soon.
    Right. No one listens. It's hilarious.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 07:21 PM
  9. bubbbab's Avatar
    Absolutely lousy. I sent an email complaint to my carrier which should arrive in 6 months.

    Z10STL100-2/10.2.1.1055 O2 UK
    That depends on what time of the year you send it. At times it could be 22 months.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 07:25 PM
  10. bubbbab's Avatar
    The bandwidth available per person isn't bad.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    Yeah but the roaming charges!!!

    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech likes this.
    12-16-13 07:28 PM
  11. Omnitech's Avatar
    Yeah - NFC rocks, especially if someone gets a hold of your credit card and goes on a blitz with under $50 transactions...

    There is ZERO security on under $50 transactions with NFC. They should still make you enter a pin.

    Now here's the interesting part: All sorts of merchants that I go to here in the USA already charge my old-fashioned dumb credit-card without the requirement of a signature, identification or anything else - on transactions under $50.

    I'm sure many like this "convenience", but considering how easily someone could run around with my card making a bunch of $50 transactions, I'm not so sure I like such a "convenience".
    12-16-13 07:30 PM
  12. Omnitech's Avatar
    from PocketLint 18 Sept 2013:

    Let's put this into a scenario: Say you own an iPhone 5S and you're walking by a Starbucks that has a beacon. When you enter that beacon's zone, the beacon will transmit special promotions, coupons, recommendations, etc, to your iPhone 5S via the Starbucks app. Beacons will also accept payments, so you can pay for a Starbucks coffee without having to bump or tap your phone against anything.

    Apple believes their answer is better and will be more widely adopted. Time will tell.

    Just what we all need: more Big Brother wannabes tracking everything we do, everywhere we walk, and give them more opportunities to turn us into advertising-inundated zombies.

    No thanks. I'll take something like NFC, which I have more control over, over such things, any day.
    scrapmetal58 likes this.
    12-16-13 07:33 PM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar
    In fact I never said that. I've only said it's not EXCLUSIVE to Blackberry - like the statement I responded to alluded.

    For once nugent is correct.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    12-16-13 07:34 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    Right. No one listens. It's hilarious.

    Well sure it's hilarious, but there's a good reason in your case.
    12-16-13 07:35 PM
  15. slagman5's Avatar
    I don't know why everyone is giving Benjamin_NYC such a hard time. What he was saying is that it is over the top to say that NFC payments by phone will be the "preferred" method of transaction in the world any time soon.

    As long as it only works for certain particular combinations of issuer and cell network, then it's going to be somewhat limited. Once somebody solves that issue, then it could really take off.

    BlackBerry actually has the NFC implementation to solve this issue by being truly carrier independent, and they've had it for some time. But they seemed reluctant to push this feature (fear of upsetting carriers?) and now they don't have the numbers or the brand to be a major player.

    Google has now caught up to BB here in their KitKat version. Now we'll see if Google is willing to go a carrier independent route. They may be too beholden to carriers to do this.

    If Apple pushes forward with BT payments (or even NFC), they won't bother with the carriers. They never care about the carriers. So that changes everything, because if an iPhone user has an HSBC or an Amex, or a Citi card, for example, it will work for her regardless of what phone network she uses. That makes adoption much easier and faster.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Oh, I never said that it is fair, it's just how defensive he's gotten. If I were him, I'd just started ignoring people if his point is really being misinterpreted by everyone. I will defend my point, but if it seems hopeless, just leave it alone, lol.
    12-16-13 07:46 PM
  16. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I also like the idea of personal NFC tags you put all over the place and tap on them... there's no intelligence in the tags just a unique code sort of like a location profile, but more granular: in the kitchen tap on an NFC tag to put the phone in super loud ring tone mode, and by your bedside tap a different tag for going into bedside mode... tap near your charger that's far away from where you might be lounging to have it super loud, or reconfigure specific notifications if you are 'on call' for work that night... so NFC has capabilities apart from payments and in terms of granularity of control I think it is superior to ibeacon... i'd rather walk up to a terminal of my own accord to get specials than have them come from the retailer with negative-option controls... to me, ibeacon is a boon for retailers, not consumers, while NFC us a boon for consumers and a possible short term competitive advantage for retailers who support it (until their competitors do too).

    Posted via CB10
    scrapmetal58 and ppeters914 like this.
    12-16-13 07:49 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    Just what we all need: more Big Brother wannabes tracking everything we do, everywhere we walk, and give them more opportunities to turn us into advertising-inundated zombies.
    The normal use-case for iBeacon is to have the phone detect the beacons, not the other way around. So in that respect it's not really different in that respect from scanning a QR code or tapping an NFC tag.

    No thanks. I'll take something like NFC, which I have more control over, over such things, any day.
    Until you actually you actually tap a purchase via NFC, in which case "Big Brother" knows how much you just spent, when, and exactly where that terminal is in most cases. Then by comparing that to all your previous purchases, he can figure out when you'll likely be back and what other things you might buy this month.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    12-16-13 07:49 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    I also like the idea of personal NFC tags you put all over the place and tap on them... there's no intelligence in the tags just a unique code sort of like a location profile, but more granular: in the kitchen tap on an NFC tag to out the phone in super loud ring tone mode, and by your bedside tap a different tag for going into bedside mode... tap near your charger that's far away from where you might be lounging to have it super loud, or reconfigure specific notifications if you are 'on call' for work that night... so NFC has capabilities apart from payments and superior to ibeacon... 0
    iBeacon supports those same use cases. It just avoids the tap. I have a test app that launches my TiVo app, for example, the moment I sit anywhere on my couch or my favorite chair. No tap required.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    12-16-13 07:52 PM
  19. slagman5's Avatar
    I don't know why everyone is giving Benjamin_NYC such a hard time. What he was saying is that it is over the top to say that NFC payments by phone will be the "preferred" method of transaction in the world any time soon.

    As long as it only works for certain particular combinations of issuer and cell network, then it's going to be somewhat limited. Once somebody solves that issue, then it could really take off.

    BlackBerry actually has the NFC implementation to solve this issue by being truly carrier independent, and they've had it for some time. But they seemed reluctant to push this feature (fear of upsetting carriers?) and now they don't have the numbers or the brand to be a major player.

    Google has now caught up to BB here in their KitKat version. Now we'll see if Google is willing to go a carrier independent route. They may be too beholden to carriers to do this.

    If Apple pushes forward with BT payments (or even NFC), they won't bother with the carriers. They never care about the carriers. So that changes everything, because if an iPhone user has an HSBC or an Amex, or a Citi card, for example, it will work for her regardless of what phone network she uses. That makes adoption much easier and faster.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    But to actually address the whole argument, saying it will definitely take off within a year or that it definitely will not take off within a year are both equally foolish statements in my opinion. All based on speculation. It COULD, or it COULDN'T. Unless you're psychic, you won't know for sure which. We've seen changes in technology take over in a short period of time like a tidal wave and we've seen tech take it's sweet time to catch on. The thing about NFC is that it is popular in many places already, so it's not like the foundation is not there. It wouldn't take a miracle for it to become as prominent as the CC readers we see everywhere where consumers swipe their card themselves in a year's time. So who knows. I don't personally think it'll be as quick as a year, although I'd like it to be though...
    scrapmetal58 likes this.
    12-16-13 08:17 PM
  20. slagman5's Avatar
    iBeacon supports those same use cases. It just avoids the tap. I have a test app that launches my TiVo app, for example, the moment I sit anywhere on my couch or my favorite chair. No tap required.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Uh, actually, I would HATE that. I don't do the exact same thing everytime I sit down or go to any certain place. I'd like some kind of control over that. I have NFC tags in my house and some are pretty close to another tag that does a different function. So based on what I need to do AT THAT TIME, I can pick which tag to tap... I know you're eager to promote the system your phone supports, but I do think NFC is just a bit more versatile since it gives you a bit more control...

    And just the whole concept of ibeacon kind of rubs me the wrong way. To have a store automatically send a notification to your phone just because you walk into it, I personally would see that as a violation of my privacy. I like NFC and how it requires YOU, to actively decide that YOU want to perform a function. Not something a store, a company, or someone else decide they want your phone to do... Even if you can turn it on or off, that would make it negate its purpose for me since I would definitely keep it off, so I can use it only when I want it to be used, so then every time I would have to manually turn it back on just to use it. NFC is passive and it's just there for when and if you choose to use it, you have full control without the need to turn something on or off. I keep NFC on, but as BB users know, it deactivates itself when the phone is in the holster or when the screen is locked so people can't access your NFC when you don't want them to be able to. I like that a whole lot more.
    12-16-13 08:26 PM
  21. app_Developer's Avatar
    Uh, actually, I would HATE that. I don't do the exact same thing everytime I sit down or go to any certain place. I'd like some kind of control over that. I have NFC tags in my house and some are pretty close to another tag that does a different function. So based on what I need to do AT THAT TIME, I can pick which tag to tap... I know you're eager to promote the system your phone supports, but I do think NFC is just a bit more versatile since it gives you a bit more control...
    Of course you could write an app to do exactly that (customize actions based on location), and many people will write such apps. The TiVo app is just one that I wrote for myself to play with iBeacon. It's very simple and does exactly what I wanted. The idea can and will be extended.

    The point is it's a signal, just like NFC is. The only difference is that it works over longer distances.

    Your mixing up what a particular app can do versus what the underlying technology supports.


    And just the whole concept of ibeacon kind of rubs me the wrong way. To have a store automatically send a notification to your phone just because you walk into it, I personally would see that as a violation of my privacy. I like NFC and how it requires YOU, to actively decide that YOU want to perform a function. Not something a store, a company, or someone else decide they want your phone to do... Even if you can turn it on or off, that would make it negate its purpose for me since I would definitely keep it off, so I can use it only when I want it to be used, so then every time I would have to manually turn it back on just to use it. NFC is passive and it's just there for when and if you choose to use it, you have full control without the need to turn something on or off. I keep NFC on, but as BB users know, it deactivates itself when the phone is in the holster or when the screen is locked so people can't access your NFC when you don't want them to be able to. I like that a whole lot more.
    Again, you're focusing on particular apps or use cases, not on the underlying technology and all the different use cases it can support.

    Let's say the Gap makes an app that reacts to beacons. Or the Louvre makes an app that allows you to customize your own tour. Those are apps you can choose to use or choose not to.

    On the other hand, iBeacon also supports a virtual tap mode where the two devices have to be extremely close to register (similar to how you can touch your iPhone to an AppleTV to set it up). It's like a tap, except not quite so fussy about exact orientation.

    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Last edited by app_Developer; 12-16-13 at 09:02 PM.
    12-16-13 08:33 PM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    The normal use-case for iBeacon is to have the phone detect the beacons, not the other way around. So in that respect it's not really different in that respect from scanning a QR code or tapping an NFC tag.

    If by "phone detecting the beacons" this means "some system level service or long-running app which is written in a way to facilitate advertising, or track my interaction with ibeacons without my knowledge or control", then it really makes no difference "which side initiates".



    Until you actually you actually tap a purchase via NFC, in which case "Big Brother" knows how much you just spent, when, and exactly where that terminal is in most cases. Then by comparing that to all your previous purchases, he can figure out when you'll likely be back and what other things you might buy this month.

    The point I made is that ibeacons are likely activated simply by entering an active zone. There is no "choice" because if you have other reasons to be in that general area, you will be "captured" and potentially tracked / fed advertising junk.

    In the case of NFC, because the distance requirements are so strict in comparison, the likelihood of "accidentally and unintentionally" having your NFC tag scanned without your knowledge or consent is vastly less.




    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
    12-16-13 08:39 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    If by "phone detecting the beacons" this means "some system level service or long-running app which is written in a way to facilitate advertising, or track my interaction with ibeacons without my knowledge or control", then it really makes no difference "which side initiates".
    You would have to be running the app. If you don't like the way the app reacts to beacons, you would delete the app. If Neiman Marcus annoys people with their iBeacons, people will stop using their app.

    Or if you don't want to be tracked, you can turn off bluetooth all together. I think in general consumers like having options and if the value is there (special deals for example), and the annoyance is low, users will opt in. If you're a user who is more concerned with privacy, then certainly you would turn it off.

    The point I made is that ibeacons are likely activated simply by entering an active zone. There is no "choice" because if you have other reasons to be in that general area, you will be "captured" and potentially tracked / fed advertising junk.

    In the case of NFC, because the distance requirements are so strict in comparison, the likelihood of "accidentally and unintentionally" having your NFC tag scanned without your knowledge or consent is vastly less.
    As I mentioned in other post, a developer/merchant/POI can choose to react only in very close proximity (< 0.5 meter distance for example). For some cases, users will prefer that and those apps will win. In other cases, like the museum example, I would prefer the app that doesn't make me tap each painting or room as I walk around.

    Admittedly, it's a question of how much you value (or fear) each case. If you're extremely worried about privacy, you'll turn this feature off. Others will enjoy the feature. Still others will be somewhere in between I think and turn it on (or just launch the apps) in certain situations.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 12-16-13 at 09:10 PM.
    12-16-13 08:50 PM
  24. nnik's Avatar
    The normal use-case for iBeacon is to have the phone detect the beacons, not the other way around. So in that respect it's not really different in that respect from scanning a QR code or tapping an NFC tag.



    Until you actually you actually tap a purchase via NFC, in which case "Big Brother" knows how much you just spent, when, and exactly where that terminal is in most cases. Then by comparing that to all your previous purchases, he can figure out when you'll likely be back and what other things you might buy this month.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    let me guess, you pay cash everywhere

    .
    12-16-13 08:58 PM
  25. app_Developer's Avatar
    let me guess, you pay cash everywhere
    .
    No, I absolutely don't. I'm not worried about privacy at that level. I already know that every time my phone connects with a tower, somebody knows where I am. I know that every time I use a free WiFi service, someone knows where I am.

    I know my bank knows everywhere I have been for some 15 years now. I know Nordstrom, and Costco, and CVS and a whole group of other companies know more about me than probably half my family does.
    howarmat likes this.
    12-16-13 09:06 PM
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