01-06-14 10:32 PM
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  1. oystersourced's Avatar
    Whether the user is tech savvy or not is irrelevant, it is still BlackBerry's problem because there are unpatched versions of their OS out in the wild effecting their brand.

    Unfortunately the issue was caused long ago and many software companies are still getting to grips with tackling this problem.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-14 01:12 PM
  2. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Whether the user is tech savvy or not is irrelevant, it is still BlackBerry's problem because there are unpatched versions of their OS out in the wild effecting their brand.

    Unfortunately the issue was caused long ago and many software companies are still getting to grips with tackling this problem.

    Posted via CB10
    People get notified about the update.... what more do people want? auto updates without permission ? Don't think so. Lol

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925
    Omnitech likes this.
    01-05-14 01:22 PM
  3. oystersourced's Avatar
    People get notified about the update.... what more do people want? auto updates without permission ? Don't think so. Lol

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925
    You completely missed the point I was making. No matter who the software vendor is it is in their interests for all of the users to be running the latest official release (in theory *cough* Samsung *cough*). BlackBerry are at a significant disadvantage in this respect because 10.0.x wasn't up to scratch. I do not know what the best solution is, as I said I like Sony's method forcing you to update before using PSN however I can see how this method is not as easy to implement on Mobile devices.

    Auto-updates is an option, download automatically inline with a users connection settings and prompt to install upon device startup (with the option to defer till the next startup).

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-14 02:42 PM
  4. extisis's Avatar
    You completely missed the point I was making. No matter who the software vendor is it is in their interests for all of the users to be running the latest official release (in theory *cough* Samsung *cough*). BlackBerry are at a significant disadvantage in this respect because 10.0.x wasn't up to scratch. I do not know what the best solution is, as I said I like Sony's method forcing you to update before using PSN however I can see how this method is not as easy to implement on Mobile devices.

    Auto-updates is an option, download automatically inline with a users connection settings and prompt to install upon device startup (with the option to defer till the next startup).

    Posted via CB10
    or... just check for yourself by tapping one single button: "Check for Updates"
    01-05-14 02:53 PM
  5. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    or... just check for yourself by tapping one single button: "Check for Updates"
    That's too much to ask in the 21st century

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925
    extisis likes this.
    01-05-14 03:23 PM
  6. oystersourced's Avatar
    That's too much to ask in the 21st century

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925
    That will be always too much to ask for when you have non-techy users with control. Unfortunately when news stories are produced of flaws in software, people curse their deficient computer software in public it reflects badly on the manufacturer.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-14 05:58 PM
  7. Omnitech's Avatar
    No matter who the software vendor is it is in their interests for all of the users to be running the latest official release... [...]

    ... as I said I like Sony's method forcing you to update before using PSN however I can see how this method is not as easy to implement on Mobile devices.

    Auto-updates is an option, download automatically inline with a users connection settings and prompt to install upon device startup (with the option to defer till the next startup).

    First of all, buggy updates happen too. One thing that people with lots of professional experience know very well about, and many laypersons are blissfully unaware of.

    Also, in the mobile phone / smartphone industry, the carrier's interest is heavily intertwined with the device quality and operating system stability. If the devices are failing to work properly, this often impacts directly on the carrier's business, which is why in the USA the carriers have an iron grip (in most cases) on smartphone OS updates.

    If I had a vendor force an update on me without my permission that eliminated features I really needed, or introduced bugs that crippled the device's functionality, or worse - caused me to lose important data - I would be really angry about that.

    Case in point: some carriers released an update this summer to BlackBerry 10 OS 10.1 that in some cases locked up the device for hours or days, and in some cases lost ALL of their text messages, and there was NO way to recover them.. I know of people here on CB who lost ~10,000 text messages from that debacle.

    People love to cheer the carriers who push a generic new OS build to their customers right away with little or no testing, but the fact of the matter is that that is actually the cheapest and easiest path a carrier could take.

    When did those horrible "big two" US carriers stop pushing OS updates to the Z10/Q10 devices? Right around the time of that "10.1 MR" boondoggle. So neither AT&T nor VZW customers were subjected to that disaster. (The new Z30 came from the factory with OS 10.2 installed, so it bypassed that issue.)

    So while it's undoubtedly annoying for the US carriers to be so tardy on OS releases, adventurous users can always install a leak. (I was finally driven in that direction myself and I don't regret it - but I do think it's best left to so-called "tech savvy" individuals who also don't mind being unable to use traditional support channels)

    In a nutshell, there often is a "method to the madness" of not just pushing the latest shiny update to everyone without their permission.
    ronfc and Thewaxedworm like this.
    01-05-14 06:51 PM
  8. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    calling a leak stable. chuckle.
    10.2 was a mess in stability so yes 10.2.1 has much better stability. 10.2.1.1925 is in the carriers for testing soo it most likely will be an official release.. Just because it's leaked that doesn't mean it can't be official sir.

    Posted via CB10
    Dave Bourque likes this.
    01-05-14 07:11 PM
  9. ronfc's Avatar
    10.2 was a mess in stability so yes 10.2.1 has much better stability. 10.2.1.1925 is in the carriers for testing soo it most likely will be an official release.. Just because it's leaked that doesn't mean it can't be official sir.

    Posted via CB10
    Well, in my opinion, 10.2 is quite stable esp. 1791 and 1803. I didn't encountered any major problems back then when I was still running those. The only problem was some missing functionality over 10.2.1 but that's just it.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1925
    01-05-14 07:24 PM
  10. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    calling a leak stable. chuckle.
    Not knowing how software works is a bigger chuckle... 1925 is in fact a stable build... even more so than 10.2.0.1809

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925
    01-05-14 07:30 PM
  11. ray689's Avatar
    I'm sorry OP but this has nothing to do with the Z10 or BlackBerry. Your friend clearly didn't bother so this is all on the user in this case. This does happen with other platforms as well. Companies can only do so much for people. The only solution would be a forced OTA update sent by a carrier without even asking the customer which wouldn't go over well with those who actually are tech savy and want to decide for themselves what they want to do.


    Posted via CB10
    01-05-14 07:37 PM
  12. extisis's Avatar
    10.2 was a mess in stability so yes 10.2.1 has much better stability. 10.2.1.1925 is in the carriers for testing soo it most likely will be an official release.. Just because it's leaked that doesn't mean it can't be official sir.

    Posted via CB10
    never said anything about official. just stable. it's labeled a leak for a reason. stability is a matter of opinion; plenty of folks have complaints about 10.2.1.1925 (and .1055) and even clearly state it's not ready for prime time. you just can't call a leak stable, even if it works 100% perfect for you (which it won't).
    01-05-14 07:40 PM
  13. NightFire's Avatar
    I updated my Berry a week or so before at&t sent the actual notification...last July. This was an official update, too.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-14 07:41 PM
  14. Omnitech's Avatar
    10.2 was a mess in stability

    And you base that opinion on what?


    ...so yes 10.2.1 has much better stability. 10.2.1.1925 is in the carriers for testing soo it most likely will be an official release.. Just because it's leaked that doesn't mean it can't be official sir.
    Not knowing how software works is a bigger chuckle... 1925 is in fact a stable build... even more so than 10.2.0.1809


    Since "knowing how software works" is important, then let me explain some things.

    A "stable" release of software, generally speaking and from a software development standpoint, refers to a development or release build where features and functions are frozen, meaning unchanging, and the only changes it is undergoing are bugfixes.

    BY ANY MEASURE, 10.2.1.1925 is not "stable" in any classic sense of software development. So please stop proclaiming it so just because you happen to think it "runs fine on my device", OK? That's not what "stable" from a software development standpoint means.

    In reality, 10.2.1.1925 is a BETA release of software. BETA means "under heavy development", ie "lots of changes happening to features and functions". By DEFINITION, BETA software is not STABLE software. OK?

    Specifically: 10.2.1.1925 was released as part of the BES Enterprise Beta Program. In fact, evidence of this is right under your nose. Here's a post about it.

    So in fact, either someone in the BES Enterprise Beta Program violated their contract and publicly posted the software, or according to some other speculation, an unauthorized user may have accidentally gotten it because it was distributed based on PIN numbers and one of the PINs may have been entered wrong.



    never said anything about official. just stable. it's labeled a leak for a reason.

    Yes, but the "reason" is not what you think it is.

    "Leak" simply means that it was distributed publicly when it was not supposed to be. Leaked software could be stable, it could be beta, it could be alpha, it could be broken. It could even be an official release, or a version that started out as an internal build that some carrier decided to "greenlight" and at that point it becomes an "official release".

    All clear now?
    extisis likes this.
    01-05-14 08:33 PM
  15. extisis's Avatar
    rename this thread to, "She isn't as "tech-savvy" as you think she is"
    01-05-14 09:39 PM
  16. extisis's Avatar
    And you base that opinion on what?








    Since "knowing how software works" is important, then let me explain some things.

    A "stable" release of software, generally speaking and from a software development standpoint, refers to a development or release build where features and functions are frozen, meaning unchanging, and the only changes it is undergoing are bugfixes.

    BY ANY MEASURE, 10.2.1.1925 is not "stable" in any classic sense of software development. So please stop proclaiming it so just because you happen to think it "runs fine on my device", OK? That's not what "stable" from a software development standpoint means.

    In reality, 10.2.1.1925 is a BETA release of software. BETA means "under heavy development", ie "lots of changes happening to features and functions". By DEFINITION, BETA software is not STABLE software. OK?

    Specifically: 10.2.1.1925 was released as part of the BES Enterprise Beta Program. In fact, evidence of this is right under your nose. Here's a post about it.

    So in fact, either someone in the BES Enterprise Beta Program violated their contract and publicly posted the software, or according to some other speculation, an unauthorized user may have accidentally gotten it because it was distributed based on PIN numbers and one of the PINs may have been entered wrong.






    Yes, but the "reason" is not what you think it is.

    "Leak" simply means that it was distributed publicly when it was not supposed to be. Leaked software could be stable, it could be beta, it could be alpha, it could be broken. It could even be an official release, or a version that started out as an internal build that some carrier decided to "greenlight" and at that point it becomes an "official release".

    All clear now?
    my argument started when i saw someone recommend the latest 10.2.1 leak as the "most stable" and that just isn't logical when there's plenty of threads claiming errors. and yeah, i know a leak could be anything and eventually become official, but for the time being it's not so my statement stands.
    01-05-14 09:47 PM
  17. ray689's Avatar
    my argument started when i saw someone recommend the latest 10.2.1 leak as the "most stable" and that just isn't logical when there's plenty of threads claiming errors. and yeah, i know a leak could be anything and eventually become official, but for the time being it's not so my statement stands.
    Fair enough. But for the record, there are always threads claiming issues/errors with even carrier pushed updates that are official.

    Edit: I wasn't trying to cherry pick your post but that's all it quoted. The quote issue today is making it difficult to follow threads.

    Posted via CB10
    01-05-14 09:51 PM
  18. extisis's Avatar
    Fair enough. But for the record, there are always threads claiming issues/errors with even carrier pushed updates that are official.

    Edit: I wasn't trying to cherry pick your post but that's all it quoted. The quote issue today is making it difficult to follow threads.

    Posted via CB10
    yeah idk, quoted you but it won't show the quotes that YOU quoted... weird.
    01-05-14 09:58 PM
  19. ronfc's Avatar
    never said anything about official. just stable. it's labeled a leak for a reason. stability is a matter of opinion; plenty of folks have complaints about 10.2.1.1925 (and .1055) and even clearly state it's not ready for prime time. you just can't call a leak stable, even if it works 100% perfect for you (which it won't).
    Just so you know, 10.2.0.1767 is currently the official OS on some countries. This version is official yet full of annoying bugs and stability issues. With this, we can say 'you can't call an official OS stable, even if it is labeled OFFICIAL'.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1925
    01-06-14 10:56 AM
  20. Omnitech's Avatar
    Just so you know, 10.2.0.1767 is currently the official OS on some countries. This version is official yet full of annoying bugs and stability issues. With this, we can say 'you can't call an official OS stable, even if it is labeled OFFICIAL'.

    Pedant time.

    You are using the wrong terminology.

    The proper terminology for what you are describing is "buggy", not "unstable".

    "Stable" has a specific meaning in software development, and when we are discussing leaks and alphas and betas and internal builds and official releases and so on, then one should stick to the terminology most applicable to properly labeling the "type" of software release something is.

    See my previous post here on this.

    (Edit: couple of additions. In the FreeBSD OS, the "stable" release branch is referred-to as “FreeBSD-STABLE”. In the Linux OS, the "stable" releases are the even-numbered kernel versions, the "unstable" or "development" branches are the odd-numbered kernel versions. link)
    ronfc likes this.
    01-06-14 12:01 PM
  21. ronfc's Avatar
    Thank you, Omnitech for the correction.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1925
    01-06-14 12:07 PM
  22. extisis's Avatar
    Just so you know, 10.2.0.1767 is currently the official OS on some countries. This version is official yet full of annoying bugs and stability issues. With this, we can say 'you can't call an official OS stable, even if it is labeled OFFICIAL'.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1925
    that's cool. my argument wasn't with the official OS's, it was with a person recommending a leak as stable (according to their opinion). but that seems to have gone over everyone's heads.
    01-06-14 02:18 PM
  23. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Well my assumptions could be correct http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=891080

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925
    01-06-14 05:27 PM
  24. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    that's cool. my argument wasn't with the official OS's, it was with a person recommending a leak as stable (according to their opinion). but that seems to have gone over everyone's heads.
    I'll never recommend any leak even if its stable if the person doesn't have the skills to do the task.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1925
    01-06-14 05:28 PM
  25. oystersourced's Avatar
    First of all, buggy updates happen too. One thing that people with lots of professional experience know very well about, and many laypersons are blissfully unaware of.

    [...]

    If I had a vendor force an update on me without my permission that eliminated features I really needed, or introduced bugs that crippled the device's functionality, or worse - caused me to lose important data - I would be really angry about that.
    That is a different issue that is not even excusable on mobile platforms (especially such closed environments as BlackBerry or iOS) due to their set specifications.

    Layperson's tend to see bugs as an acceptable norm in software but that is usually due to the fact the software system they are using has been built by the lowest bidder.

    Posted via CB10
    01-06-14 06:19 PM
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