04-21-13 03:32 PM
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  1. DonPedroGonzalez's Avatar
    Your statement is kind of incorrect. Apple might fix something, but not after discovery. Usually after a big stink from a lot of customers.
    Usually after the forums go nuts, Apple is silent for a very long time and they may or may not fix anything. Remember the New iPad and the Wi Fi issues. The users solution was turn off Wi Fi BEFORE you leave the coverage or you have to reboot the iPad, so it is able to connect to 3G. Never ever acknowledged by Apple as a legitimate problem affecting countless users. Most of the said users do not have an idea about forums and they just either replace the device or believe that this is how it should be and keep using it
    By the way - remember the infamous SJ "you are holding it wrong". Tell this to your girlfriend.
    04-21-13 10:29 AM
  2. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    Exactly! You need to compare it with what is out there TODAY. On one side we have the 6th version of iOS that still has issues with WiFi, exchange, battery drain and password lock screen. On the other side we have a small group of Z10 users, on a older version of the OS, with problems with reboots. Those are facts. Draw your own conclusions.

    Posted via CB10
    C'mon. Of course you need to compare it to current offerings, and yes, consumers do exactly that. BUT that doesn't make it any easier for BBRY or any other software company out there to pull out a v1 phone OS that works perfectly out of the gate and has no bugs. That's just IMPOSSIBLE in the given period of time. It's a v1 OS which has to compete with v6 and v4 OSs. You can't magically bring a v1 OS up on the level of a v6. So we all we can do is ask ourselves how good it actually is for a v1. And hell, I think this piece of software seems more like a v3. I'm absolutely OK with it. At least BB10 is very different from the competition at it's core value proposition so that there are many people who prefer it over the others, it hasn't to compete over its v-status primarily.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-13 10:40 AM
  3. bobshine's Avatar
    Well given iOS and androids users base issues are bound to be found more frequently. BB10 has about 1/10000th of the install base... Many issues, bugs, or missing features seem to be easily discovered and prevalent on a even with the smaller install base.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    Actually with probably 2 to 3 million users, I think that issues are as easy to find. We are not talking about 10,000 users.

    Also the issues seems much more isolated and limited to and older OS. I do understand the frustration of those users, but it way blown out of proportion.

    It's like saying that iOS 4.0 has major bug and I won't buy it and going out and scream about it on a board. That is what is going on here.



    Posted via CB10
    04-21-13 10:46 AM
  4. southlander's Avatar
    Ok screw the "it's a first generation" device argument. How about the argument that for example, sometimes newly released Android phones have random reboot issues that are later fixed with a patch (Google it). Also happens with Windows Phone.

    I will say iOS seems to have done better on this over time.
    04-21-13 10:51 AM
  5. bobshine's Avatar
    C'mon. Of course you need to compare it to current offerings, and yes, consumers do exactly that. BUT that doesn't make it any easier for BBRY or any other software company out there to pull out a v1 phone OS that works perfectly out of the gate and has no bugs. That's just IMPOSSIBLE in the given period of time. It's a v1 OS which has to compete with v6 and v4 OSs. You can't magically bring a v1 OS up on the level of a v6. So we all we can do is ask ourselves how good it actually is for a v1. And hell, I think this piece of software seems more like a v3. I'm absolutely OK with it. At least BB10 is very different from the competition at it's core value proposition so that there are many people who prefer it over the others, it hasn't to compete over its v-status primarily.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually BlackBerry 10 is a version 1 or 2 (if you count the playbook) and i think it's at par or better than a version 6 of iOS and whatever they are at on Android (I think it's 4).


    What I think is happening here is that beside the people that are really genuinely frustrated cause they are stuck with an order version of the OS, lots of people are using this opportunity to bash BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-13 10:55 AM
  6. tphp's Avatar
    Regarding the existance of bugs. I think in todays market, whatever the product, software bugs really shouldn't exist, at least not glaring bugs like some of the ones mentioned in this thread. 50 years ago, the only programming language about was assembly, it was tough, just being able to know all the meaningless op-codes was a challenge in itself, let alone having to get all those into an order that would turn into an actual human understandable software program. Fast forward to today, programmers are working at a very high level language wise, C++, Java, Python, ect, languages that are relatively easy to use, come with libraries of functions to save time writing code, and using code itself that is easy to get your head around, I mean 'printf' is a lot more understandable than 'int 21h'. All those guys that used to write assembly have distilled their knowledge down into writing compilers that do an amazing job. Companies debug for a long time, years even, their teams are large so they can spread the workload for this. In the case of BBRY, they built BB10 on top of one of the most reliable operating systems to ever be written, an operating system that is so reliable it can be trusted to operate a nuclear power plant, which is a lot more complex than a phone. So now, in the 21st Century, with all these tools, and these proven platforms to build upon, I really do find it inexcusable when any software based product has glaring bugs, unacceptable issues. There are individuals out there, writing open source programs, with only the money they make from their dayjobs, that produce software that is stable and reliable, so how can companies, with unimaginable resources in comparison to people like this, do such a bad job?

    That being said, when a bug gets out, the problem I see (with regards to smartphone companies) is a massive, and quite frankly insulting lack of transparency. If I were BBRY, and I knew about these issues, I'd have sent an email to Crackberry, and asked them to put up an article with a statement regarding these bugs, and the eta for an update, and made the customer feel like they are being heard and being cared for. I'm not just singling BBRY out, AAPL are even worse, patronising the customer before scrambling to create a fix (You're holding it wrong anyone?)

    Some people seem to think it's ok because it's not 'life threatening'. Yet if you were involved in some kind of accident, and you needed to call the emergency services and your phone decided to randomly reboot, it would be a bit different then yes?
    LatinoLoco24 and kanyeezy1 like this.
    04-21-13 10:58 AM
  7. aha's Avatar
    It makes no one feel better by telling me that it's ok to have issues because it's a first generation device and comparing it to the original iPhone. First of all, the iPhone was the first of its kind, it had no real competition and even with its issues, it was much better than everything else out there.

    Secondly, it's 2013, and BlackBerry should know better than to release something that would (for thousands of customers) restart for no reason when there are countless numbers of people relying on the device to do business.

    Yes it's ok if you have a first generation revolutionary device with problems, but IT IS NOT OKAY 6 years after similar level smartphones have been out.

    I realize this is a BB fan site and I would love for my (second) Z10 to work flawlessly too, but it is simply not the case. Stop making excuses for a multi-billion dollar company and instead help those with problems push them to find out solutions or if not possible, then return people's money with ease.

    I saved up $650 over months and I will not be happy with BS like random black screens or reboots.
    OP, I partially agree with you. Yes, the difficulty of understanding the market demands for a smart phone has decreased over the years because now the market is getting more mature and stable, the engineering teams are getting more experienced in developing them, there are more talents available to discuss, define, architecture, implement, test, marketing, selling and supporting smart phones now --- still not perfect, but much better than 5 years ago.

    So theoretically, the Gen One of any new smart phones should be much more usable than 5 years ago. There is no question about that.

    But at the same time, it's still a daunting task to get everything right in the first try under enormous pressure and tight deadlines. It doesn't matter it's software engineering, electronics, mechanic engineering, industrial design, or marketing. Because the definition of usability has changed so much in the past 5 years too. 5 years ago the market can tolerate and iPhone without copy and paste functionality, today the market complains loudly about a new map app in iPhone 5. The expectation has changed... this is exactly the case here for OP's expectation.

    The challenge facing BB10 here is not how perfect the BB10 can be out of the gate, but how much change BB10 brings to mobile space to make it different enough so the market will give it space to grow.... the same as iPhone gen 1. If you look back at iPhone 1, it was not a perfect device by any book, but it was an amazing device that is different enough so people would give it time to fix its copy and paste support.

    Now, did BB10 bring the refreshingly sparkling design and paradigm to the mobile space? Q2 sales number will tell.
    04-21-13 11:23 AM
  8. xBURK's Avatar
    1. Z10 is perfect for the majority.
    2. Some people have issues.
    3. This happens with every new product.
    4. BlackBerry will tend to them.
    5. Done.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-13 11:37 AM
  9. LeunammiGM's Avatar
    Speak for your self i haven't had any problems with my device at all. With that said I know I phone users who had to take there I phone back 5 times all phone's have issues all hardware and software have issues its not just a Z10 problem.
    bigbikeguy likes this.
    04-21-13 01:06 PM
  10. DNRuffin's Avatar
    Why do people keep bringing up the iPhone when this is about the Z10? Didn't the few people here who had issues say they dislike Apple and got a Z10 to support BlackBerry and if they wanted an iPhone, they would've bought one? LOL.

    You iPhone haters don't have to bash the iPhone to justify the Z10's issues. Bash BlackBerry because they're at fault for the malfunctioning devices. I swear people are so far up BlackBerry's arse that they have to be in total denial about the company's issues and quality control. At least with the iPhone (or an Android phone, for that matter) you can go to the store and exchange it with no questions asked. Why is it that when you want to return a BlackBerry, they want you to wipe the phone, restore it, wipe it again, and if you are out of your exchange window (14 to 30 days) they want you to send them back the phone and have them send you another that might not even have the issue solved? This is just sad...

    JeepBB, litig8or98 and Davidro1 like this.
    04-21-13 01:36 PM
  11. jay_men's Avatar
    Why do people keep bringing up the iPhone when this is about the Z10? Didn't the few people here who had issues say they dislike Apple and got a Z10 to support BlackBerry and if they wanted an iPhone, they would've bought one? LOL.

    You iPhone haters don't have to bash the iPhone to justify the Z10's issues. Bash BlackBerry because they're at fault for the malfunctioning devices. I swear people are so far up BlackBerry's arse that they have to be in total denial about the company's issues and quality control. At least with the iPhone (or an Android phone, for that matter) you can go to the store and exchange it with no questions asked. Why is it that when you want to return a BlackBerry, they want you to wipe the phone, restore it, wipe it again, and if you are out of your exchange window (14 to 30 days) they want you to send them back the phone and have them send you another that might not even have the issue solved? This is just sad...

    Because people like you keep coming in here comparing BlackBerry to Apple. And besides it doesn't stop either with the media and analysts from doing the same publicly. ...There is a place called Apple Store that sell many different consumer products. When you find a similar BlackBerry store let us know.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-13 01:50 PM
  12. LatinoLoco24's Avatar
    Google it, Wiki it, or whatever but get your facts straight, AntennaGate did not occur on the first iPhone and by the way brake problems on a car, nevaaar (Toyota looks away nervously).

    It's not that we should be okay with issues on our phones (and I am experiencing some of the issues posted here) its that in reality they are going to occur. I've decided to enjoy my Z10 regardless and wait for the software updates.



    Posted via CB10
    Eh...first, second, third or whatever number smartphone down the line, antennae issues in this day would be quite pathetic. As would many other issues that may arise in the industry. That's all I was trying to get at. If BlackBerry released the zed10 with an inability to receive emails, that would be unacceptable, regardless of how brand new the os is -- especially when a company touts their email the best in the business and the phone has seemingly been extensively tested prior to release. Just giving examples. I know s*it happens and it is what it is. A lot of the attitude has to do with how high or low a customers expectations are. It's not bad to say I paid several hundred dollars for a device (tools not toys as all the Blackberry business fanatics like to sing) that I expect to be reliable and not shut off whenever it feels like it.

    Again, mine works fine so far, but I feel for the folks that are going through with the issues.

    Posted from my ZED10
    04-21-13 02:23 PM
  13. LatinoLoco24's Avatar
    Anyway, the replies, defenses and arguments are getting redundant it seems. Some people are fine with the issues, some don't have issues, some expected more and some don't agree with such issues occurring in their devices, especially with the numerous delays and all that yadayada...choose your group and be on with it. I'm probably residing in a couple.

    Posted from my ZED10
    04-21-13 02:27 PM
  14. DonPedroGonzalez's Avatar
    Could all of you just read this and SHUT UP - https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0
    Original post - Mar 17, 2012 7:33 PM, last post - Apr 18, 2013 9:32 PM
    To save you some time reading the entire 98 pages of posts here are some of them:
    iPad user Jermil05
    There are now 216814 Views of this topic. Yet the Geniuses in the Apple Store often continue to say they have never heard of this problem. That's completely dishonest.
    There are 1,399 Replies in this discussion but not ONE of them is from an Apple person acknowledging the problem and say they will have a fix out very soon.
    This is TERRIBLE customer service.
    iPad user Willynl
    Believe me, there id NO fix. I have been calling now with Apple for more then a month!!! I live in Costa Rica, and Apple tells me they can't do anything here. End of story, I am still stuck with an iPad and almost no Wifi. I have never ever in my whole live bought anything from an international company, with such a bad service!!! I am Dutch, I Holland companies HAVE to replace your device. Apple just gets away selling worthless iPad's, with no Wifi, and they get away with it. I am thinking of getting a lawyer! 1 month of calling, calling, calling, and still a not working iPad. Really, this iPad is this biggest HORROR STORY I HAVE EVER BOUGHT IN MY LIVE. Just because a complete, complete lack of any kind of service!
    So if you still insist how great Apple is and how bad BBRY is, put your iPhone on vibrate and stuff it
    John Pawling and bigbikeguy like this.
    04-21-13 02:40 PM
  15. DonPedroGonzalez's Avatar
    One last quote from - https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0
    User pogle1

    I went through six new iPads (all LTE VERSIONS, BTW), before finding one (# 7) that was perfect. Every Apple rep I talked to, both online and in 5 stores in three different states had never "heard of this problem"... It is in fact not reproducible if in strong WiFi signal field, like an Apple store, for example.

    Though I'm sure there are a number of folks on this forum that need to tweak their settings and routers for optimal speed, this issue is not related to those, and can be duplicated at any WiFi hotspot, at least that's been my experience.

    If you can find a good one, it is really a great device.. Good luck!! - end of quote

    How about that. Replacing 7 (seven iPads) to find a good one. It just works - NOT
    How do you like them Apples (iPads)
    John Pawling and bigbikeguy like this.
    04-21-13 02:53 PM
  16. Rello's Avatar
    Ah those were the days. It's funny to see how delusional some people were about even the Storm. Anyone that defends that POS should be banned from here.
    Just shows how crackberry works. The Storm was terrible...but many at the time we're too blind to admit it...but thats how a lot of things go here.

    If BB has a issue, its a small isolated one but if the competition has one, apparently it's huge. If BB doesn't have an app, it sucks and we don't need it anyway...but when we get it, it's awesome. BB's didn't need games because we used our devices for "getting stuff done"...but now we should support the developers. That's crackberry

    We all know that no software is perfect. It will never be completely glitch free. It just amazes me how because people who have legit problems with their device and voice them are bashed, labeled trolls, or even worse, labeled paid trolls lol. I can't wait to get my Z10 and hope it doesn't have re-booting issues or bad battery life that some are experiencing. If it bothers people so much that some are having issues simply ignore the thread. People are so quick to call some people trolls yet they can't help but to "feed" them. If you wanna get down to conspiracy theories, I'm sure some of you people calling people paid trolls are probably paid BB trolls that downplay any problem BB's have.

    I just wanna know....is this a 1.0 OS or not? Before these problems started arising, people said it was a 2.0 or even 3.0 OS, but now that some are experiencing problems its back to a version 1.0 OS. Lol which is it? Seriously question...
    04-21-13 03:01 PM
  17. Young Z's Avatar
    Ok screw the "it's a first generation" device argument. How about the argument that for example, sometimes newly released Android phones have random reboot issues that are later fixed with a patch (Google it). Also happens with Windows Phone.

    I will say iOS seems to have done better on this over time.
    To be fair, iOS has their er.. own interpretation of multi-tasking while the Z10 has a more um... conventional way of multi-tasking.

    Is it better to do iOS's fake multi-tasking to save battery and be more rock solid? Or was it better to offer a more real multi-tasking like BB10 but risk Battery and potential conflicts... Whatever side can spin the advantages or disadvantages any way they want I guess
    04-21-13 03:19 PM
  18. unkl_e's Avatar
    Plane and simple don't justify any bug. Just like any other goods we buy they should operate advertised every time! If not which happens from time for time don't make excuses acknowledge it and fix it. All of you whose phone are working problems free good for you but don't discount the frustrations of the ones who do.

    Posted via CB10
    04-21-13 03:21 PM
  19. vtpmt81's Avatar
    One last quote from - https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0
    User pogle1

    I went through six new iPads (all LTE VERSIONS, BTW), before finding one (# 7) that was perfect. Every Apple rep I talked to, both online and in 5 stores in three different states had never "heard of this problem"... It is in fact not reproducible if in strong WiFi signal field, like an Apple store, for example.

    Though I'm sure there are a number of folks on this forum that need to tweak their settings and routers for optimal speed, this issue is not related to those, and can be duplicated at any WiFi hotspot, at least that's been my experience.

    If you can find a good one, it is really a great device.. Good luck!! - end of quote

    How about that. Replacing 7 (seven iPads) to find a good one. It just works - NOT
    How do you like them Apples (iPads)


    He must a troll because I am not having any issues with my iPad .

    Seriously though - there are a ton of online articles with possible fixes and workarounds on iPad wifi issues if a google search is done.

    Seriously - every device has issues. People forget that the Nexus One had similar attenna issues to the iPhone 4. Samsung's phones have had issues in the past with terrible update schedules and problems with the GPS. HTC had problems with its One S randomly rebooting.

    The key to a phone company doing well is customer service and customer satisfaction. Right now Apple has done a good with its Apple Care+ packages and Samsung has improved its update schedule and turned Touchwiz into a strength that adds functionality to Android.

    Some people that owned BBOS phones weren't happy with them and those people still bristle when they see Blackberry 10 devices which aren't even close to BBOS devices.
    04-21-13 03:30 PM
  20. pkcable's Avatar
    I think this thread has run its course!
    04-21-13 03:32 PM
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