01-18-14 04:27 PM
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  1. NotGoodIMO's Avatar
    How can anyone say that when BYOD use mostly Droid and IPhones? Don't see a keyboard on those. BYOD is the big threat right now.


    CB10 via Verizon Z10. 10.2.1.1925
    The problem is that those going for IOS and Android will not be buying full touch Blackberry anyways. Chen doesn't have too many shots at making this right. He wants to get the low hanging fruit first. People still buying Blackberry in enterprise prefer physical keyboard.
    rotorwrench likes this.
    01-09-14 08:27 PM
  2. rotorwrench's Avatar
    If you read the actual quotes before the press twists them, they are clear. They are making both touch screen and qwerty with an emphasis on qwerty since it's a differentiator.

    Posted via CB10
    Correct. The statement is clear, it's the reader that confuses the issue.
    01-09-14 08:41 PM
  3. leejayh's Avatar
    My take - BB needs to make a few standard form factors:

    Z10 size
    Z30 size
    Q10 premium
    Q5 cheaper
    some type of qwerty with a full screen

    Foxconn phones.

    I was able to spend a day at CES and saw all of the new phones from Samsung, LG, etc. They are enormous, curved, etc etc. Did any of them interest me? No. Too big, curved for no reason (making them less portable in pockets, etc. Any qwerty's? None.

    So, owning the qwerty market with High and Low end versions is good - because there is a segment that swears by them. I used to be one of them. Until the Z10 came one.

    it took a little bit - but I am now pretty fast on the Z10. It is an excellent mid-range phone. And superior for the current price of about $199 US no strings. The new MotoG which is getting recommendations has a worse screen, worse features, and slower processor, for more money $250. It is crazy.

    In my mind - what made the Z10 a disappointment was the immaturity of BB10 not the Z10 itself. lack of apps, lack of customization features, and lack of android compatibility. But BB 1925 on the Z10 is a completely different story. Had it launched this way - it might have been a hit. But that is the story of many new products and startup companies.

    The Z10 now, has great battery life, great android compatibility, has great features, and continues to build a strong ecosystem. The unfortunate part of the Z10, is the processor is too slow - and you can really feel it if you play with a new Android or with the Z30.

    SO - Chen making qwerty phones is right. But he better make an updated Z10 - a Z10 plus if you will. Get the new Snapdragon 800 into the damn thing, add all the Z30 goodies, get a better camera and get it into market. (make it look like a smaller Z30 please). That would be a winner. and if you dont want to take a big gamble, make 100K of them, make them exclusive, and price them at $650. I would
    buy one. If it is too hard to do for BB - then get Foxconn to do it. they make the Iphone for pete sake - they can make this for those of us who want the full screen.

    Sony is the smart one - they are doing this strategy with the Z1 and the Z1s. Same phone but just different screen sizes. They did not make the smaller one underpowered.
    nt300 likes this.
    01-09-14 08:57 PM
  4. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    The point is: the data is speculative: the $960 million figure is slightly more than the TOTAL inventory value as of summer 2013... so they didn't write it all down to ZERO did they? They probably wrote it down by 50% or 60%.

    I repeat: YOUR FIGURES ARE SPECULATION "UP TO" is not "EQUALS" and you're jumping to conclusions as to what the actual markdown was, what devices it included (maybe it included BBOS devices too? How many? do you know? does anyone outside BlackBerry know?)

    Who's being emotional here. Just say "yes, I don't have the information, but I think this is what happened" and we can all just forget about this nonsense.
    I'm citing a Bloomberg article and that is emotional? Seriously? So if it wasn't $960 million but only say $600 million it wasn't a disaster? The fact that since the Z10 came out BB market share has dropped in almost all markets isn't a disaster?

    Just an article like the one I cited appearing in a publication like Bloomberg probably qualifies as a disaster. We have all the threads here about people thinking or being told by salespeople that BB is going or has gone out of business. Where do you think that comes from if not from articles like the one in Bloomberg?
    01-09-14 08:58 PM
  5. rotorwrench's Avatar
    Have you made my point or yours? How does zero percent market share look from your perspective? Lol

    Posted via CB10
    I did make my point, 80million+ subscribers of mostly physical KB devices. And I did think you meant 45+ as numbers but being sarcastic lol. My bad.

    My opinion still stands, from my interaction in the aerospace industry, Enterprise still prefers physical KBs and many of the companies we deal with have adopted Q10s over touchscreen, with many keeping their OS7 devices. I realize thats only a small segment but still representative in many ways.
    01-09-14 09:00 PM
  6. rotorwrench's Avatar
    How can anyone say that when BYOD use mostly Droid and IPhones? Don't see a keyboard on those. BYOD is the big threat right now.


    CB10 via Verizon Z10. 10.2.1.1925
    A good portion of Enterprise has still not adopted BYOD and many won't if security is an issue, as it is in my industry and the contractors we work with. Some Samsung devices and the iPhone5 have received FIPS140-2 certification but many don't realize that is a minimum standard that just gets you in the building and is mostly limited to communication only for those devices. Knox for android is an add on and only part of the phone is considered secure whereas the BBs have no such limitations. Not to say other platforms won't get there, but BB is still considered to be the most secure platform and the reason many companies allow nothing else on their networks. Some may disagree, but those companies' IT say otherwise, as does ours. There's a number of industry articles and papers discussing this very issue, the security concerns of BYOD. Our IT contractor says he sees no adoption of other platforms in our company or those his company manages in the near future, as long as BB is still afloat or another platform can equal the security of a BB.

    Why do think NATO approved BB10 Enterprise and BB10 phones as the first and only phones allowed for secure restricted communications? Because they were the best selling phone? Most apps? Best specs? Security. And if you don't believe that most Enterprise has the same concerns then you are out of the Enterprise loop. The general consumer may not care but businesses increasingly are and Chen says he plans to keep BB at the top of the secure mobile communications hill.
    Last edited by rotorwrench; 01-09-14 at 10:20 PM.
    01-09-14 09:37 PM
  7. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I agree with most of this. One thing I would point out is that it isn't just a U.S. problem. They have been losing market share in most of the world since BB10.
    Definitely. But my sense is that they expected more of the US and that the market was extra resistant to it. The write-downs happened following the release in the US.
    01-09-14 09:48 PM
  8. kthhrrsn's Avatar
    This is the only thing I've heard from him that is absolutely mad. I'm fine with him bringing out another Qwerty next, seeing as the Z30 just came out, but not to bring out one flagship flatscreen a year would be utter lunacy.

    Some people love the physical keyboard, and of course they should bring out more and better, but the main reason BlackBerry got themselves in this mess was not moving to the full screens. Chen is going to lose a whole generation on consumers if 2014 doesn't see a BlackBerry 10 full screen flagship that can dance with whatever Apple and Samsung deliver.

    So, do you guys think he is serious? Have I misunderstood him? Do you disagree with my statement, and think I'm mad? Personally, I love BlackBerry 10, but I have absolutely no interest in physical keyboard, which I actually find slower than the BlackBerry 10 keyboard on my Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree. Unless BlackBerry wants to really be a very small, niche player, they have to come out with more touch screen devices in the future.

    I know that there are a lot of die hard keyboard lovers out there, but look around your organizations. Most of your colleagues who used BlackBerry devices 5 years ago have switched to iPhones. The corporate world is also changing...modernizing. That's why so many more companies have BYOD policies lately.

    The pool of keyboard lovers in the professional space is shrinking.
    21stNow likes this.
    01-09-14 10:01 PM
  9. xBURK's Avatar
    its funny how the media has an impact on the public.. including all you guys here on the forum.

    here is what Chen said.
    “I personally love the keyboards”
    "In the future, the company's phones will predominantly have physical keyboards..."

    So they will focus on keyboards MORE than touch devices.. thats fine. but that does NOT mean they will STOP having the touchscreen.
    Their entire bb10 experience is based on a touch screen device, and the z30 takes it to an awesome level.. they will NOT let that go.

    This is similar to the story about BlackBerry focusing on Enterprise and "ditching" the device.
    the Media at its best.

    so relax everyone.. if they make keyboard phones, awesome! but they will definitely have a touch device also. I mean, do we really need 2-3 touch devices? no! just give us updated processors, memory, and features.
    Exactly. The strange thing: this was not the Media. This was Mr. Chen saying it. If people twist those simple words and panic thinking it meant no more all touch devices, it's impossible to get any message across without confusion. The media does this enough already.

    Posted via CB10
    01-09-14 11:06 PM
  10. SteveDawn Mclaughlin's Avatar
    3 out of 4 smartphones in our household have physical keyboards, so we think its a great decision.
    coffee-turtle likes this.
    01-10-14 12:39 AM
  11. mnc76's Avatar
    But I really would like a successor to the Z30, 5' inch, 1080p, removable battery, 32 GB internal storage. Would be awesome!
    Don't forget a BETTER CAMERA!

    I would like to see one, just ONE, BlackBerry phone with a great camera in my lifetime.

    CB10 : Z10 STL100-3 10.2.0.1803
    01-10-14 01:36 AM
  12. silversmith75's Avatar
    i seriously hope he is kidding..... i don't care if its 3 qwerties but there has to be 2 high end touch....i don't want this to be my only blackberry... i never touch them before cause i don't like the keyboard.. so my z10 is my first.. where my friend loves his keyboard... most kids first phone is either an iphone or a galaxy lately... you can't cut out that market with out..
    01-10-14 02:26 AM
  13. BBUK14's Avatar
    My fear is that Chen will pump out low end touch screen phones, and leave the high end users to evacuate to Android or iPhone. One high end touch screen a year is all a we need, but as I said, it's utter lunacy to jump back out of the touch screen game now. BlackBerry going back to its roots is great, but not the root that nearly killed them lol.

    Posted via CB10
    01-10-14 02:48 AM
  14. texazzpete's Avatar
    There is a market for keyboard devices.....it is what it is, people like them!!
    Yes, a rapidly shrinking market, many of which have already picked up a Q10 and will not upgrade.
    01-10-14 04:55 AM
  15. BBUK14's Avatar
    I guess we couldn't expect Chen to be perfect. He seems to have it right in all the other areas at least. One great touchscreen by Christmas is all we really need anyway. Surely BlackBerry won't be that stupid...er...hopefully. I just struggle to see how they forget that ignoring the touchscreens in the first place nearly killed them. I'll never go back to a keyboard, because it's slower than typing on screen. I used to be addicted to the keyboard, and actually planned on waiting for the Q10, but then realised that touchscreen typing on the Z is faster.

    Chen needs to realise that he is basically going for the two phone system all over again. People will still want a touchscreen for the entertainment side of things, and younger businesspeople are entering the workforce every year. Young people don't really want a physical keyboard because they know how to type on the touchscreens they have been using.

    Anyway, hopefully there is no need to panic, and that we still have a killer Z10 replacement on the way by the end of the year.

    Posted via CB10
    01-10-14 05:11 AM
  16. Fernando Lins1's Avatar
    The company can continue to focus on the keyboard, and this time, by touching the screen. It is undeniable that Blackberry has by far the best keyboard! whether physical or touch.
    01-10-14 07:06 AM
  17. Fernando Lins1's Avatar
    Blackberry should have only 4 devices on its box sales. 2 with physical keyboard (1 Top and other combat) and 2 with full screen (1 Top and other combat).
    01-10-14 07:20 AM
  18. BBUK14's Avatar
    Blackberry should have only 4 devices on its box sales. 2 with physical keyboard (1 Top and other combat) and 2 with full screen (1 Top and other combat).
    This seems like a perfectly sensible plan. The low end device has got to be less ugly than the Q5 though. It looks like a Fisher Price job.

    Posted via CB10
    01-10-14 08:21 AM
  19. SteveLawUK's Avatar
    I was always adamantly against even the concept of touch screen typing. I loved my Bold keyboards they were lovely: tactile and accurate. I also thought I was pretty fast. I was never going to change. I was given a Z10. I persevered. It took a while. I find it very, very hard to go back now - it's so slooow! (I hate myself a little, I don't know who I am...)

    I do miss the accuracy as typos frustrate me, and the selection control is poor (I hate to say this but the iPhone/iPad selection is much better) but overall I am converted. Although I do think I'd struggle on a non-BB touch screen - the prediction is awesome.

    (Admittedly I haven't tried a Q10 keyboard.)
    (PS. It really bugs me when people call a physical keyboard a "qwerty". They are both qwerty, but one is touch/virtual and one physical.)
    01-10-14 09:23 AM
  20. BBUK14's Avatar
    Yes, they are of course both qwerty phones, but I suppose it is somehow easier to differentiate that way. Shall we just call them Q phones or Key phones instead?

    Posted via CB10
    01-10-14 09:37 AM
  21. SteveLawUK's Avatar
    Yes, they are of course both qwerty phones, but I suppose it is somehow easier to differentiate that way. Shall we just call them Q phones or Key phones instead?

    Posted via CB10
    Call them what they are. Physical and virtual. (Because of course they are both "touch" as well.)
    01-10-14 09:39 AM
  22. nt300's Avatar
    I will repeat myself once again for those that just don't understand why the Z10 was not as successful as it should have been.
    In order of importance:
    1) Marketing/Advertising Truly sucked.
    2) Device price was way too expensive.
    3) OS was not fully polished, hence battery drain, but forgiving. (Due to new OS update promises).

    I am not going to get into the nonsense 4 Sale Sign which did cause Millions of Z10 returns and carriers lying to customers about its demise.
    --------------
    That said, Mr. Chen "SAID" they will put more focus on Physical Key Board Devices for at least 18 months. He did "NOT" say he's not going to release a Full Touch, such as a Z50. They will release a full touch device to eventually replace the Z30, maybe not in 2014, but perhaps in early 2015.

    My advice for Mr. Chen. Would be to get a high end Z50 out for at least months B4 the 2014 Christmas Holiday Season.
    Also I would suggest he re-vamp the Z10 with newer specs and price it to sell for this market.
    01-10-14 09:53 AM
  23. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I will repeat myself once again for those that just don't understand why the Z10 was not as successful as it should have been.
    In order of importance:
    1) Marketing/Advertising Truly sucked.
    2) Device price was way too expensive.
    3) OS was not fully polished, hence battery drain, but forgiving. (Due to new OS update promises).

    I am not going to get into the nonsense 4 Sale Sign which did cause Millions of Z10 returns and carriers lying to customers about its demise.
    --------------
    That said, Mr. Chen "SAID" they will put more focus on Physical Key Board Devices for at least 18 months. He did "NOT" say he's not going to release a Full Touch, such as a Z50. They will release a full touch device to eventually replace the Z30, maybe not in 2014, but perhaps in early 2015.

    My advice for Mr. Chen. Would be to get a high end Z50 out for at least months B4 the 2014 Christmas Holiday Season.
    Also I would suggest he re-vamp the Z10 with newer specs and price it to sell for this market.
    And a real shortage of apps and ecosystem. I don't think BB can compete head to head with Apple and Android with touch screens. They are vastly better with physical keyboards than their few competitors. 98% of a small market (QWERTY) is possible a lot better than 0.5% of a much larger market.
    01-10-14 10:15 AM
  24. nt300's Avatar
    Personally and IMO, I don't buy the ecosystem issue BB10 faces, because it is a brand new platform. This is expected, just like when iPhones were released, they had no ecosystem. This is why marketing and advertising, along with pricing the devices properly would have boosted sales, hence, the ecosystem builds on its own. As for the app shortage, for some reason many companies have stone walled BBRY, not sure why, but absolutely ridiculous.
    At launch there should have been most if not all high profile apps available bar none. This alone would have mitigated the marketing issues and help push out more devices.
    Two companies come to mind, that seem very anti-BBRY, the 1st is Netflix, and the other is Starbucks. Humm, wonder why? There's thousands upon thousands of Q10 business men and women still waiting for a Starbucks app, so they can toss away the plastic? What gives StarBucks?
    01-10-14 10:37 AM
  25. BBUK14's Avatar
    Call them what they are. Physical and virtual. (Because of course they are both "touch" as well.)
    Okay, now you're just going too far lol. What do you mean by 'virtual'? Are you suggesting the Z10 keyboard I'm writing on isn't real? Lol

    Posted via CB10
    01-10-14 10:45 AM
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