01-18-14 04:27 PM
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  1. 21stNow's Avatar
    There will always be a market for QWERTY phones. The Q10 is an AWESOME device. I have one as my work phone and it is absolutely the BEST device I have used for my line of work over using a iPhone 4. It's good to see BlackBerry sticking to its roots. I will always rock one in some shape, way or form.

    I rock a Z30 now. Came from: Z10, 9900, 9700. For my personal life, The Z30 is the right device. Its just awesome. It's an amazing tool that does so much right. And than some.

    The Z10 is ultimately the true iPhone killer. Just needs some revisions and they have nailed it entirely.
    I've never seen a murder that took a year to finish while the victim is still not only breathing, but going the club for a night of dancing after spending a full day doing cardio.
    01-09-14 02:34 PM
  2. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    There will always be a market for QWERTY phones. The Q10 is an AWESOME device. I have one as my work phone and it is absolutely the BEST device I have used for my line of work over using a iPhone 4. It's good to see BlackBerry sticking to its roots. I will always rock one in some shape, way or form.

    I rock a Z30 now. Came from: Z10, 9900, 9700. For my personal life, The Z30 is the right device. Its just awesome. It's an amazing tool that does so much right. And than some.

    The Z10 is ultimately the true iPhone killer. Just needs some revisions and they have nailed it entirely.

    No, the Z10 didn't kill anything with the possible exceptions of itself and Blackberry. They couldn't give them away and they wrote down nearly a billion dollars of unsold inventory. They were a disaster.
    01-09-14 02:42 PM
  3. GTiLeo's Avatar
    did chen actually say they are goign to be focusing on QWERTY, i know in the bloomberg interview he did praise their QWERTY but he did not say that would be a focus
    01-09-14 02:46 PM
  4. Nharzhool's Avatar
    No, the Z10 didn't kill anything with the possible exceptions of itself and Blackberry. They couldn't give them away and they wrote down nearly a billion dollars of unsold inventory. They were a disaster.
    That's a stupid thing to say. There is nothing wrong with the phone. Saying it is a disaster is short-sighted and well...stupid.

    The Z10 didn't kill the company, nor itself - that was the BlackBerry Marketing/Management team that killed both.

    You've got 1300 posts on here...you should know this.

    The phone is great for its current price. It is actually sublime for its current price.

    So either you're baiting or being willfully malicious...stop it.
    m1kr0 likes this.
    01-09-14 02:49 PM
  5. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    That's a stupid thing to say. There is nothing wrong with the phone. Saying it is a disaster is short-sighted and well...stupid.

    The Z10 didn't kill the company, nor itself - that was the BlackBerry Marketing/Management team that killed both.

    You've got 1300 posts on here...you should know this.

    The phone is great for its current price. It is actually sublime for its current price.

    So either you're baiting or being willfully malicious...stop it.
    Money talks, ******* walks. They wrote down nearly a billion dollars in inventory with the Z10. If you read my post I didn't say anything about whether it was a good phone. Nothing. I said it was a disaster for the company. It was.
    21stNow likes this.
    01-09-14 02:52 PM
  6. Sexy Sadie's Avatar
    I have started to see some Q10 in the wild, and when I approach the owner, they tell the same story: when their old nokia Meegoo handset died they were told buy the sales representants in every shop that qwerty phones is not in fashion any more and that nobody makes them, most people cave in and buy an iPhone because of the dimunitive size compared to the giant Samsungs, but some people are actually doing research and they end up buying a Q10.

    And it is lot of these people, I got used to not have the physocal keys, but I am dreaming of an Qwerty slider in landscape moode with screen the size of the Z10. Just think what kind of devise this would become if it was high end...
    01-09-14 03:15 PM
  7. jay64's Avatar
    To be honest, voice dictating emails has gotten so accurate I rarely bother typing them anymore. Input methods via typing may well become irrelevant in the near future.
    01-09-14 03:38 PM
  8. amjass12's Avatar
    the z30 should be blackberries flagship device. and offer a normal and mini version. blackberry keep making different devices. find 1 that works... market it, make it popular... win.

    imo the z30 is the best phone blackberry have ever made. people on here who have adopted the z30 seem to agree, so just market the hell out of it.

    the q10 should be blackberries physical.. but thats it. q5 for emergking m\rkets.. and improved re-iteratuions of these models. not brand new phones each time.
    01-09-14 03:44 PM
  9. coffee-turtle's Avatar
    Long live QWERTY! :-)
    What!?
    01-09-14 03:46 PM
  10. coffee-turtle's Avatar
    To be honest, voice dictating emails has gotten so accurate I rarely bother typing them anymore. Input methods via typing may well become irrelevant in the near future.
    I am still not entirely sold on the accuracy, but that is good news. Admittedly, I don't like people overhearing what I'm writing/saying. Try dictating on public transportation. I bet you'll find a sure fire way to get yourself jumped. ;-)
    Sexy Sadie and 21stNow like this.
    01-09-14 03:47 PM
  11. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Money talks, ******* walks. They wrote down nearly a billion dollars in inventory with the Z10. If you read my post I didn't say anything about whether it was a good phone. Nothing. I said it was a disaster for the company. It was.
    That's statement so oversimplifies how the BB10 OS / Device rollout played out it is wrong. CrackBerry is full of examples where posters try to encapsulate in one sentence or concept something that can't be so encapsulated. The attempt spurs thread after thread of circular "no, my single point is the only significant one" arguments, but doesn't posting bold definitive and refutable statements like this in a contradictory manner not just tire people out?
    anon(5624621) likes this.
    01-09-14 03:48 PM
  12. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    That's statement so oversimplifies how the BB10 OS / Device rollout played out it is wrong. CrackBerry is full of examples where posters try to encapsulate in one sentence or concept something that can't be so encapsulated. The attempt spurs thread after thread of circular "no, my single point is the only significant one" arguments, but doesn't posting bold definitive and refutable statements like this in a contradictory manner not just tire people out?
    What is refutable in the post that you quoted?
    01-09-14 03:56 PM
  13. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    To be honest, voice dictating emails has gotten so accurate I rarely bother typing them anymore. Input methods via typing may well become irrelevant in the near future.
    This is an interesting point. This past Monday I received my Moto X that I'd ordered to replace my Q 10, the latter I decided to replace do to the lack of apps. At least initially the Moto X seems to have really dramatically improved voice recognition capability compared to even my iPhone 5. If this keeps progressing it really will really begin to be the major mode of entry. I agree I don't like to use it in public places but a lot of times I'm not in public places.
    Sexy Sadie and jay64 like this.
    01-09-14 03:58 PM
  14. Nharzhool's Avatar
    Money talks, ******* walks. They wrote down nearly a billion dollars in inventory with the Z10. If you read my post I didn't say anything about whether it was a good phone. Nothing. I said it was a disaster for the company. It was.
    Ah, so it's "willfully malicious"?

    Your statement was purposely ambiguous "They were a disaster.". You were saying both that the phone was a disaster (bad phone) and that the phone was a disaster(causing devastation). However, you're still wrong.

    I don't think people like you are worth arguing with...I just wanted everyone else to know that you're purposely being malicious...also, I'm rather bored at work.

    Ugh...you're tiresome. One day I'm going to get banned because of people like you.
    01-09-14 04:26 PM
  15. Jouster's Avatar
    Ah, so it's "willfully malicious"?

    Your statement was purposely ambiguous "They were a disaster.". You were saying both that the phone was a disaster (bad phone) and that the phone was a disaster(causing devastation). However, you're still wrong.

    I don't think people like you are worth arguing with...I just wanted everyone else to know that you're purposely being malicious...also, I'm rather bored at work.

    Ugh...you're tiresome. One day I'm going to get banned because of people like you.
    But it really isn't about how good the phone is. (For the record, I think it's a really good phone)

    Anything that results in your company taking a near-billion dollar write down is a disaster.
    01-09-14 04:33 PM
  16. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Ah, so it's "willfully malicious"?

    Your statement was purposely ambiguous "They were a disaster.". You were saying both that the phone was a disaster (bad phone) and that the phone was a disaster(causing devastation). However, you're still wrong.

    I don't think people like you are worth arguing with...I just wanted everyone else to know that you're purposely being malicious...also, I'm rather bored at work.

    Ugh...you're tiresome. One day I'm going to get banned because of people like you.
    You didn't answer my question. I am not being ambiguous, I am looking at it from a big picture standpoint. They lost nearly a billion dollars and got an enormous amount of really bad publicity about the phone. That is the bottom line. That is what matters for the company.
    01-09-14 04:46 PM
  17. trsbbs's Avatar
    The Enterprise market does prefer physical KBs and that is where Chen wants to concentrate. At work we're now switched to BB10 and had our choice of phone with 13 out of 17 preferring the Q10, 2 chose the Z10 and 2 taking the Z30. FWIW several have requested their 9930 back but I'm sure they'll adjust. We're not a big company but I believe those numbers are indicative of most Enterprise preferences. BB physical KB phones have set the standard for productivity and efficiency and that is the bottom line of the bottom line. Almost every vendor and company we deal with has stayed with physical KB BBs and those that have upgraded to BB10 are using Q10s. I think Chen knows Enterprise and he plans to cater to it.
    How can anyone say that when BYOD use mostly Droid and IPhones? Don't see a keyboard on those. BYOD is the big threat right now.


    CB10 via Verizon Z10. 10.2.1.1925
    Last edited by trsbbs; 01-09-14 at 05:29 PM.
    01-09-14 05:07 PM
  18. RyanGermann's Avatar
    What is refutable in the post that you quoted?
    "The Z10 was a disaster" is an oversimplification and therefore refutable. The inventory writedown wasn't a billion (the only numbers online are estimates based on reported inventory levels and they weren't writen down 100%, so your statement is an oversimplification) and it wasn't JUST Z10s (Q5s and Q10s had to be written down, too). I know that won't satisfy you. So, go ahead. I'll be back to read and shake my head, but you have dozens of other critics to respond to so have a fun couple of days at it.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 01-09-14 at 05:31 PM.
    01-09-14 05:21 PM
  19. trsbbs's Avatar
    "The Z10 was a disaster" is an oversimplification and therefore refutable. The inventory writedown wasn't a billion (rounding up by over 100 million dollars is again an oversimplification) and it wasn't JUST Z10s (Q5s and Q10s had to be written down, too). I know that won't satisfy you. So, go ahead. I'll be back to read and shake my head, but you have dozens of other critics to respond to so have a fun couple of days at it.
    They over produced on the Z10, but still sold more Z10s than the other BB10 phones.
    Why is this so hard to understand?!

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/Black...in-use_id50954

    CB10 via Verizon Z10. 10.2.1.1925
    01-09-14 05:32 PM
  20. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    "The Z10 was a disaster" is an oversimplification and therefore refutable. The inventory writedown wasn't a billion (the only numbers online are estimates based on reported inventory levels and they weren't writen down 100%, so your statement is an oversimplification) and it wasn't JUST Z10s (Q5s and Q10s had to be written down, too). I know that won't satisfy you. So, go ahead. I'll be back to read and shake my head, but you have dozens of other critics to respond to so have a fun couple of days at it.

    I believe I said nearly a billion, rather than a billion. According to this:

    BlackBerry to Fire 4,500, Write Down Up to $960 Million - Bloomberg

    It was $960 million and "mostly" Z10 inventory. If you want to argue that the difference between $960 million and $1000 million and the difference between all and mostly means the Z10 wasn't a disaster, go for it. Even if only 50% of the mark down was for Z10s (the most stringent definition of "most") that is still as disaster. You might also read the rest of the article I linked to about the perception this caused about BB which is still problematic for them. Lastly, BB10, the Z10 NEEDED to be a success for BB. Not something about which people are splitting hairs over whether it was or wasn't a disaster.

    I think there is too much of a tendency to look at the situation emotionally based on liking the phone. A personal like of dislike of a phone doesn't necessarily reflect the business impact of the phone.
    01-09-14 06:19 PM
  21. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    They over produced on the Z10, but still sold more Z10s than the other BB10 phones.
    Why is this so hard to understand?!
    I would love it if there was a way to get more decent sales data on the BlackBerry 10 devices, including regional data and also model data. I have a theory that I'd love to see how accurate it is.

    While the stories right now are that the "Z10 bombed", that's a blanket statement. I don't think it "bombed" everywhere. Rather, I think it did decently (not blockbuster, but decent) in the first markets it launched. You can see them fairly regularly in Toronto's Pearson Airport for example. However, I think they expected to also do proportionally "decent" sales in the US and stocked up the massive US carrier channels accordingly. I think it did BOMB in the USn and this led to a write-down of inventory that didn't happen until after the US launch.

    The US reaction to the Z10 likely caused the US carriers to reduce Q10 orders, plus I think they were anticipating a lot of upgrade sales from that specific device which didn't come because it was so foreign.

    The reaction to both, plus the high price caused the Q5 to get limited uptake and the general BlackBerry news (including looking for a buyer, write-downs, fears over longevity) caused complete resistance to the Z30.

    I have little data to back it up, but just a gut feel. I honestly expected conservatively that BlackBerry would have shipped 10 million devices by the end of 2013 and it didn't happen. I theorize that the Z10 tanking in the USA specifically caused a domino effect for the other devices.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 01-09-14 at 07:37 PM.
    01-09-14 06:45 PM
  22. scorepion's Avatar
    Am I going to be the uptight irritating person that feels the need to point out that virtual keyboards are still qwerty keyboards?

    Yes, yes I am.

    Posted via CB10. Join C001A8DC6 for bento-inspired lunch ideas
    Well... the virtual keyboard on my Z10 is azerty... shattering news, I know ;-p

    Posted via CB10
    anon(5624621) likes this.
    01-09-14 07:34 PM
  23. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    [QUOTE=RubberChicken76;9830223][QUOTE=trsbbs;9830038]They over produced on the Z10, but still sold more Z10s than the other BB10 phones.
    Why is this so hard to understand?!

    I would love it if there was a way to get more decent sales data on the BlackBerry 10 devices, including regional data and also model data. I have a theory that I'd love to see how accurate it is.

    While the stories right now are that the "Z10 bombed", that's a blanket statement. I don't think it "bombed" everywhere. Rather, I think it did decently (not blockbuster, but decent) in the first markets it launched. You can see them fairly regularly in Toronto's Pearson Airport for example. However, I think they excepted to also do proportionally "decent" sales in the US and stocked up the massive US carrier channels accordingly and it did BOMB in the US. This let to a write-down of inventory that didn't happen until after the US launch.

    The US reaction to the Z10 likely caused the US carriers to reduce Q10 orders, plus I think they were anticipating a lot of upgrade sales from that specific device which didn't come because it was so foreign.

    The reaction to both, plus the high price caused the Q5 to get limited uptake and the general BlackBerry news (including looking for a buyer, write-downs, fears over longevity) caused complete resistance to the Z30.

    I have little data to back it up, but just a gut feel. I honestly expected conservatively that BlackBerry would have shipped 10 million devices by the end of 2013 and it didn't happen. I theorize that the Z10 tanking in the USA specifically caused a domino effect for the other devices.
    I agree with most of this. One thing I would point out is that it isn't just a U.S. problem. They have been losing market share in most of the world since BB10.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    01-09-14 07:38 PM
  24. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I believe I said nearly a billion, rather than a billion. According to this:

    BlackBerry to Fire 4,500, Write Down Up to $960 Million - Bloomberg

    It was $960 million and "mostly" Z10 inventory. If you want to argue that the difference between $960 million and $1000 million and the difference between all and mostly means the Z10 wasn't a disaster, go for it. Even if only 50% of the mark down was for Z10s (the most stringent definition of "most") that is still as disaster. You might also read the rest of the article I linked to about the perception this caused about BB which is still problematic for them. Lastly, BB10, the Z10 NEEDED to be a success for BB. Not something about which people are splitting hairs over whether it was or wasn't a disaster.

    I think there is too much of a tendency to look at the situation emotionally based on liking the phone. A personal like of dislike of a phone doesn't necessarily reflect the business impact of the phone.
    The point is: the data is speculative: the $960 million figure is slightly more than the TOTAL inventory value as of summer 2013... so they didn't write it all down to ZERO did they? They probably wrote it down by 50% or 60%.

    I repeat: YOUR FIGURES ARE SPECULATION "UP TO" is not "EQUALS" and you're jumping to conclusions as to what the actual markdown was, what devices it included (maybe it included BBOS devices too? How many? do you know? does anyone outside BlackBerry know?)

    Who's being emotional here. Just say "yes, I don't have the information, but I think this is what happened" and we can all just forget about this nonsense.
    01-09-14 08:05 PM
  25. NotGoodIMO's Avatar
    This is the only thing I've heard from him that is absolutely mad. I'm fine with him bringing out another Qwerty next, seeing as the Z30 just came out, but not to bring out one flagship flatscreen a year would be utter lunacy.

    Some people love the physical keyboard, and of course they should bring out more and better, but the main reason BlackBerry got themselves in this mess was not moving to the full screens. Chen is going to lose a whole generation on consumers if 2014 doesn't see a BlackBerry 10 full screen flagship that can dance with whatever Apple and Samsung deliver.

    So, do you guys think he is serious? Have I misunderstood him? Do you disagree with my statement, and think I'm mad? Personally, I love BlackBerry 10, but I have absolutely no interest in physical keyboard, which I actually find slower than the BlackBerry 10 keyboard on my Z10.

    Posted via CB10
    Chen doesn't care much about the consumer market. That's what put Blackberry in a big hole in the first place. The only consumer market he is interested is "the emerging markets". That's where Foxconn comes in. High end consumer market has already been taken by ios and Android. Chen is going after the big margin business in enterprise with MDM, devices with keyboard etc. Chen is doing a great job. He has minimized his risk with Foxconn deal and is now focusing on the software side.
    01-09-14 08:22 PM
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