05-07-13 03:15 AM
79 ... 234
tools
  1. mset's Avatar
    Not to be pedantic or anything, but not only do I know a fair amount about Pro Audio, I used to be in the retail biz for over 10 years, much of it in the audio business

    Yes, Apple and Google may have their own direct service, but those are very rich and very unique companies in the industry. There are hundreds of cellphone/smartphone vendors, and probably 95% of them (if not more) handle the warranties similiarly to how Blackberry does.
    Not to be pedantic or anything, but Digidesign isn't primarily in the business of making effects pedals or rack mount units. They make very high end interfaces for Protools, which is their industry leading recording software, as well as other studio mixing solutions and control surfaces. Perhaps you were in the business before the advent of Protools : )

    It really doesn't matter if the business model is different in cell phones. Apple is at the top of the food chain. I really don't buy that there are hundreds of cell phone makers. Obviously there aren't hundreds that matter for this argument. Yes, Apple and Google are rich. Sorry. The fact is that Blackberry sat down at the big table. They said they want to compete heads-up with Apple and Google and Samsung. Throwing their customers under the bus in terms of warranty protection probably wasn't the best way to show people that they're making a product that they're willing to stand behind.

    And yes, when I buy a brand spanking new unit, and it turns out to be hardware defective on day 20 (strike one), and then I get a refurb as a replacement (strike two) I am being thrown under the bus. Period.
    05-06-13 11:21 PM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar
    Not to be pedantic or anything, but Digidesign isn't primarily in the business of making effects pedals or rack mount units. They make very high end interfaces for Protools, which is their industry leading recording software, as well as other studio mixing solutions and control surfaces. Perhaps you were in the business before the advent of Protools : )

    You're right about the era, though I do in fact know what Protools is. (I was in the home audio biz, FWIW, not the pro-audio biz. I know about pro-audio because I'm interested in it and had a home studio at one time, etc.)


    It really doesn't matter if the business model is different in cell phones. Apple is at the top of the food chain. I really don't buy that there are hundreds of cell phone makers.
    Perhaps not multiple hundreds, but in the 100 range is not far off.

    All Phone Manufacturers
    List of mobile phone makers by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And the business-model makes a huge difference. Try calling Seagate to get service or a replacement on an OEM version of an enterprise hard disk drive sometime. They won't talk to you. When the manufacturer packages and markets a product for retail sale, the cost of things like packaging, shipping, service and support is calculated into the wholesale and retail price of the product.

    When they make a special deal to sell a raw/bulk-packaged drive to a systems integrator as an OEM product, the tradeoff for getting lower pricing is that the systems integrator doesn't get fancy retail packaging, they provide their own cabling, accessories and documentation, and the manufacturer offloads the expense of support onto that wholesale customer. The business model cannot work any other way, unless the wholesale customers want to pay retail prices for their components.

    This is very similiar to the cellular business-model where almost all of the retail decisionmaking is made by the carriers, the devices are sold under strict contracts, the carriers put their proprietary branding on the product, the carriers customize the software/firmware load with their own apps and other customizations, the carriers dictate the firmware revision and release schedule, etc. The product actually is somewhat different depending on which carrier is selling it. It's like a hard disk that is integrated into a PC or server. (Which BTW oftentimes have custom OEM firmware on them too.) If the disk breaks on your Dell PC and you try to take it back to the disk manufacturer, they will tell you "Go talk to Dell". That's how the business-model works.
    05-07-13 12:40 AM
  3. mset's Avatar
    Perhaps not multiple hundreds, but in the 100 range is not far off.
    Barnes & Noble? Who knew. Anyhow, many of those seem to be Chinese makers who we will never hear of, but your point is taken. I’m sure the majority, like VeryKool (!) don’t have great warranty programs.

    And the business-model makes a huge difference. Try calling Seagate to get service or a replacement on an OEM version of an enterprise hard disk drive sometime. When they make a special deal to sell a raw/bulk-packaged drive to a systems integrator as an OEM product, the tradeoff for getting lower pricing is that the systems integrator doesn't get fancy retail packaging, they provide their own cabling, accessories and documentation, and the manufacturer offloads the expense of support onto that wholesale customer.
    Again, I’m surprised. I don’t know much about that world but I thought that Western Digital would RMA a bad drive without much of an issue. In fact I was going to include WD in my list of examples. However, that’s only for drives that originated in retail packaging.

    If the disk breaks on your Dell PC and you try to take it back to the disk manufacturer, they will tell you "Go talk to Dell". That's how the business-model works.
    All right, I see the analogy. In the end, my big objection to this policy has to do with what I know about Canadian telcos, which is that they will screw you at every opportunity and that they can act with impunity (as you may know, the recent attempt to compete with them is falling flat and the upstart wireless carriers are looking for people to acquire them).

    I don’t know if the same policy pertains in the US, or how Verizon or Sprint wil treat you when asked to honour warranty.

    Another problem with this is that every carrier gives you a different answer to this or that question. Rogers says they'll honour warranty on a phone I buy from my local BST site. Telus says 'no way'. It just makes it harder for the user.
    05-07-13 01:14 AM
  4. Omnitech's Avatar
    Again, I’m surprised. I don’t know much about that world but I thought that Western Digital would RMA a bad drive without much of an issue. In fact I was going to include WD in my list of examples. However, that’s only for drives that originated in retail packaging.

    In some cases if you whine very loudly they might try to accomodate you but in general, there's no free lunch. That's what OEM product is all about. Retail service doesn't come with it.


    All right, I see the analogy. In the end, my big objection to this policy has to do with what I know about Canadian telcos, which is that they will screw you at every opportunity and that they can act with impunity (as you may know, the recent attempt to compete with them is falling flat and the upstart wireless carriers are looking for people to acquire them).

    I don’t know if the same policy pertains in the US, or how Verizon or Sprint wil treat you when asked to honour warranty.

    Another problem with this is that every carrier gives you a different answer to this or that question. Rogers says they'll honour warranty on a phone I buy from my local BST site. Telus says 'no way'. It just makes it harder for the user.

    I'm certainly not trying to argue that the carriers are golden because certainly they are not, as a rule. It's basically an oligopoly. But like various other infrastructural businesses or utilities, there is a certain amount of "natural monopoly" going on. Just like there aren't going to be 3 competitive companies vying to connect you to the electrical grid, each with their own separate set of power lines. There's a high capital outlay required to build and operate a large mobile carrier so these companies tend to be the usual self-serving large corporations.

    When I sold cellphones back in the early 1990s, here in California we were the only state that prohibited carrier/device service bundling. The reasoning was that it distorts the true value of the product/service, and hands too much control to the carriers. But eventually California joined the rest of the states in that practice, probably in part because they threw the state a bone and agreed to collect sales taxes at the non-subsidized price rather than the subsidized price.

    I can't complain too much about Verizon in terms of technical service standards and from a customer service standpoint. But in the end it's just another giant company that spends a lot of money lobbying against my interests as a citizen, ie in areas like network neutrality, spectrum ownership, fees and taxes and so on. (Things could be way worse - I could be stuck with AT&T. Don't even get me started about that garbage company..)
    05-07-13 03:15 AM
79 ... 234

Similar Threads

  1. Symbol on Z10 Screen ?
    By Mayur Saparia in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-04-13, 12:36 PM
  2. New image on call screen
    By OnTheRadio in forum BlackBerry Curve Series
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-04-09, 10:42 AM
  3. Burn Mark on Home Screen? &
    By kaishodan in forum BlackBerry Curve Series
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-04-09, 12:07 PM
  4. Link to images on home screen
    By siuc1996 in forum BlackBerry Curve Series
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-12-09, 08:20 PM
  5. How To : Display contact images on welcome screen
    By motionless in forum BlackBerry Curve Series
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-29-08, 06:39 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD