[bunny410]

Even before the Z10 came out, I was excited for it. Here, I thought, was the phone that would kick Apple's *** and propel BB back to its giddy heights of old. Then it came out. I certainly wasn't unhappy. But I wasn't bowled over, either. Everything looked cool. But not great. And, I would hope, even the most diehard BB fan would admit that, good as it all is, it's not perfect. There are certainly enough forums here that probe the phone and the system's shortcomings that I won't go into them.

But here's the real problem. Having read literally dozens of reviews of the phone, and the new OS, it seems the people who are keenest to buy the phone are BB's most loyal fans. And here cometh the problem. If you hear TH's interviews, he has mentioned that first up is the Z10: kinda top range but not really. Then the Q10: traditional and for the QWERTY-only fans. But then comes the mid-range phone: developing markets and so on. And all along BB will be going like the clappers to read the reviews, fix the bugs and put BB10 up there with the others. And BB always knew they'd have to do that. They'd knew they'd never lure the iPhone and Samsung fans with their first offering. No, the real draw is still being put together in some factory in Mexico, or is still an idea in their designers' minds. BB's true aim this year, I think, is to gear up for the launch of the phone they really want out there. A top of the range, avant garde, brushed metal, bells and whistles phone which, by that time, would have a truly sorted OS behind it, a properly stiocked app store, etc, etc.

Yet in the meantime, you'll have had the Galaxy S4, maybe even an iPhone 5, come out, all of which'll suck their owners into new contracts. And in the meantime all the true BB fans will be on a Z10 or Q10 contract with a year or two to run.

So, it begs the question, who is going to be left at that time to buy the real money making flagship phone, come year end? And, more to the point, how annoyed are the BB loyalists going to be when they realise that BB sold them what is essentially a trial tester phone in the Z10, cheap to make, quick to roll-out, all in a bid to field test the BB10 software before their real deal phone is launched come Q4?

It's for this reason that I'm really heasitant to get the Z10, love it as I might. And that, I feel, is sad, because it smacks of a corporate disregard for BB's most loyal fans, who, one can only speculate, they are happy to lose or alientate in a bid to lure a whole new legion of followers later in the year.

[homl]

Who sells more cars Porsche or BMW?
Don't knock the Z10, its pretty good the way it is.

[siausin]

Don't quite understand your logic...you are implying that those who bought Z10 now are stickers? whenever a new and better phone come up, there will be buyer..and I don't think Z10 is a tester phone. It is a solid smartphone.

Posted via CB10

[Masahiro]

You're not somehow under the impression that no other manufacturer releases updated phones throughout the year, are you? Besides, the Aristo is only speculation. No one knows for sure what the new model will be like.

[jdhooghe]

I came from a Nokia 920 and an iPhone 4S before that and a Droid Incredible before that. Yes, a lot of the user base is still from BlackBerry enthusiasts but that is the same for every platform. People who like the Galaxy S3 will most likely buy the S4. People who like the 4S will most likely buy the 5.

Yet people get bored. They find that the newest specs don't really matter unless it is the camera. They like change. Most of human history is from people not being pacifists but instead want to shake things up a bit. And yes, there are things that the other phones have that the Z10 doesn't, some people here deny it but that doesn't mean it is not true.

The 920 was great yet the core functionality wasn't there. I couldn't set my own SMS ringtone, I didn't have a decent pdf editor. I couldn't send attachments. The camera, instead of supposedly being great, was lackluster. I can't tell you how many photos I had to take of a single settings just to get a mediocre one.

The Z10 provides a fantastic core and is incredibly different. Have faith that people's baser instincts will lure them to the different Z10 and perhaps they will be hooked. It is different for everyone.

[bunny410]

No, of course, in fainess, I agree the Z10 is solid. The question is: just how solid. And sure, other manufacturers do release new phones throughout a year, but few that directly compete with a model that is less than a year old. So S4 comes out. Then the Note 2, but different and with different target consumers. Likewise the Z10 vs Q10. But the Z10 was launched as the flagship phone. So if in 9 months they launch their "real" flagship phone, does that mean they are willing to lose the original buyers of the z10, which, if it is truly trumped by the new phone, which one would expect it to be, then the Z10 buyers would be well justified to be miffed at BB because they would be trapped in contracts with another 6 to 12 months to run.

[SparkyBC]

Quit reading 90% of the useless articles on the net by dim witted writers or paid off reporters. (CNBC was a perfect example talking how the Z10 had no interest in store, no displays, nothing. At a carrier yet wasn't even on sale yet, on LIVE tv). Morons like this is most of the stories you hear on about Blackberry. By bias reporters with zero knowledge in a particular area.

Pick up the device and use it. Base YOUR decisions on YOUR personal experience with the phone. Not what you read about it. The QNX software will only get better as time goes on for a 1.0 release it's already pretty damn good. Look how long apple and android have been out. BB10 is on par with those operating systems and excel in areas too. Like any OS updates keep improving the device.

Ironic you never hear about apple maps failure that is so deeply embedded in the core of apple's OS yet still sucks and lack the updates to make it function as it should. Once the google app came out moms the word.

Contract or no contract a person can always upgrade in mid way through so it's not an issue. It's been known since day one the road map blackberry was releasing a high end device so it should be no mystery when it comes out. Do specs really make the phone, 15 mega pixel camera, 8 core processor etc, etc. No it's only hardware, it's how the OS utilizes that hardware.

Apple users line up every time there is a new phone so the point is really mute. The iphone 5 is the usual DO NOT buy phone and wait for the 5s, just like the 4s was the buy and skip the 4. Yet people bought one anyways. The thing with apple it's always the same bland phone with little upgrade. More memory, faster cpu, and that's usually about it. Slap a revised OS on it and wow this is AMAZING!!

Sooner or later Apple will have to loose the home button. The platform is old and stale! BB10 brings back something fresh. Will android or apple users buy a Z10,Q10 you bet. Just like i had my curve, went to iphone 5 and now back to Z10. Using the iphone was a pain in the a$$ typing on it sucked, the home button, double tap to close apps was out right annoying. Apple maps was garbage, the phone glitches from the unlock screen i could go on and on. Z10 just feels right no longer does a person feel like a rat going in circles to do basic tasks.

Blackberry world or side loading gives a person everything they need. Sure not all apps are native but the platform has to start somewhere. Blackberry is and will be #3 and will slowly rise up again. Apple shares are dropping like a rock for a reason. The think tank is pretty much dry. You can only blow up or shrink down an ipod touch so many times before the entire product line becomes stale!

Buy a z10 end of story, the phone will prove itself!

[thisiscjay]

Too much skepticism. BlackBerry 10 is still a developing OS so to think the company is selling the z10 as a "Tester Phone" and holding out on their customers is not really a logical thought process.

[liteScribble]

Read only if you have nothing else to read..

Guys you've been warned.

Posted via CB10

[jdhooghe]

No, of course, in fainess, I agree the Z10 is solid. The question is: just how solid. And sure, other manufacturers do release new phones throughout a year, but few that directly compete with a model that is less than a year old. So S4 comes out. Then the Note 2, but different and with different target consumers. Likewise the Z10 vs Q10. But the Z10 was launched as the flagship phone. So if in 9 months they launch their "real" flagship phone, does that mean they are willing to lose the original buyers of the z10, which, if it is truly trumped by the new phone, which one would expect it to be, then the Z10 buyers would be well justified to be miffed at BB because they would be trapped in contracts with another 6 to 12 months to run.

The same logic holds true for samsung users. Does that mean that Samsung is losing buyers if they buy the S3 now and introduced the S4 in a month? How long ago was the S3 put out and now the S4 has arrived? HTC released a new phone, it seemed, every three months. Nokia is coming out with the 928.

[Masahiro]

No, of course, in fainess, I agree the Z10 is solid. The question is: just how solid.

Very.

[bunny410]

All due respect, but what's that supposed to mean? Way I figure it, a forum is a place for debate, opinion and correction. I think I raise a valid point, whether right or wrong. If wrong, I am happy to be corrected. But if you can't even muster an opinion then perhaps this isn't the place for you!

[ramin mayar]

I read about 15 lines then I got bored Nd read what people said. From what I gather. You don't like the Z10. Big woopty doo.

I have had this z10 for more than a month and it has everything I need. **** I'm still finding out new stuff.

Instead of calling you a troll. I just say. Buy what is right for you. Sh!t if the old nokia brick phones could send email. I'd still be using those. The battery life on those were 1 charge and lasted a whole year.

Posted via a toaster.

[BB_Bmore]

Totally agree OP and while Aristo is just rumor there is enough chatter out there (even from CEO) that suggest Aristo is for REAL and Z10 is more of the mid tier phone and not the flagship some think it to be.

Thor speaks of the new product saying "It will take BlackBerry10 to new and exciting levels" that to me suggested that for whatever reason Z10 will not be able to run some of the software of the A series.

Doesn't make much sense really now but that's not to say it won't in October.

Sent from  using Tapatalk

[bunny410]

Ok, to be clear, for ramin mayar's peace of mind, I have nothing at all against the Z10. I'm not a troll, nor am I in any way trying to put BB, the Z10 or anyone whop loves BB down. Far from it. My point is I want the flagship phone. I have no desire to invest five thousand HK dollars when the Z10 comes out only to find that, surprise surprise, BB never intended it to be their flagship phone when, in October, or thereabouts, they launch the bells and whistles handset. My aim was to start a debate about whether BB has been a little crafty here by putting out a perfectly decnet - yet not flagship model - as a test bed to get all the field testing feedback it needs to roll out the real deal come year end.

And as happy as everyone is with their Z10, I just figure BB should have been upfront and open about what the handset inventory for this year's models would be from the get-go is all.

[Masahiro]

My point is I want the flagship phone. I have no desire to invest five thousand HK dollars when the Z10 comes out only to find that, surprise surprise, BB never intended it to be their flagship phone when, in October, or thereabouts, they launch the bells and whistles handset. My aim was to start a debate about whether BB has been a little crafty here by putting out a perfectly decnet - yet not flagship model - as a test bed to get all the field testing feedback it needs to roll out the real deal come year end.

And as happy as everyone is with their Z10, I just figure BB should have been upfront and open about what the handset inventory for this year's models would be from the get-go is all.

Well, seeing as how there's only one BB10 phone out right now, that would have to be considered the current "flagship phone" if that's what you're looking for. Otherwise, you could wait for maybe around half a year for the next "flagship phone", which is only a rumour at this point. Of course, it can be believed that BlackBerry will eventually come out with an updated model with better specs, as would any other manufacturer, but there is no official word on what the model will be like, or when it will be released.

Your point and your aim seem to be completely different. If you're wondering if BlackBerry would release a "test" phone when many have considered this to be their very last chance, instead of actually putting out a full-fledged combatant in the smartphone arena, then I would simply have to disagree. I've used it for over a month, and it is absolutely solid. The only problems with it are software related issues like app selection, and BBOS-esque profile customization, neither of which have much to do with hardware.

Lastly, it would make no sense for BlackBerry to be upfront and open about what models will be released this year. Does any other manufacturer reveal what upcoming models are when they release a current one? No, because they want people to buy what they have now.

"Introducing the new Z10! But wait, there's a better model coming out in about half a year, so you may want to consider waiting for that instead, and save your money..."

[bunny410]

Yeah, I guess. It's nice to hear people being positive about the phone, the OS and so on. The media and so many reviewers seem to have the bit between their teeth to critiscise the phone. But their standard seems to compare it only to those phones which have had 6 or so years of development, which is, on one hand, fair, but on the other massively disingenius to BB and the effort they have put into it. Guess I'm still a little torn as to whether I get it when it comes out in HK or not. But the positive defense of the handset from people here certainly helps a lot in making that decision.

[siausin]

My problem with OP'a logic is that if the A model is the real flagship then when it is released you get the same argument that A is just a test phone for a new AA flagship 6 months down the road.

The world is moving, so does smartphone technology. When is a phone a flagship? How long a model remains a flagship?

Z10 is so far the most advanced smartphone ever released by BlackBerry. If it is not a flagship phone now I don't know what it is. Calling it a test phone is a little stretch. It may not have the bells and whistles and apps of competing phones but it is definitely an advanced phone.


Posted via CB10

[jarrodmeyer]

My point is I want the flagship phone. I have no desire to invest five thousand HK dollars when the Z10 comes out only to find that, surprise surprise, BB never intended it to be their flagship phone when, in October, or thereabouts, they launch the bells and whistles handset. My aim was to start a debate about whether BB has been a little crafty here by putting out a perfectly decnet - yet not flagship model - as a test bed to get all the field testing feedback it needs to roll out the real deal come year end.

I think you're missing the mark here....

There _will_, _definitely_, be better BB10 devices in the future. Whether later this year or not. That was never questioned, it's a fact of business and techonology. Which company doesn't do this (release better phones as time goes on)?

What BB seem to have done here is to put out _the best_ phone they could make _at this present time_ (with _the best_ OS they could develop). It is thus a flagship by definition (https://www.google.com/search?q=defi...ient=firefox-a). Point me to a better BB10 device currently available or announced? None? Thought so. Flagship.

And as happy as everyone is with their Z10, I just figure BB should have been upfront and open about what the handset inventory for this year's models would be from the get-go is all.

Again, can you point out a company that releases their product line plans a year in advance? Even for products that are still in design and development? Come on. It would be corporate suicide to let everyone know what you plan on doing before you've done it. I think Thorsten and BB assume that everyone knows better phones and devices will come in the future (as I said above, it's a fact of the business), why should they have to point out, "Look, we're releasing this very exciting phone that is the best we can make it, but we've got more planned down the road for some future time that should be even better". Does Apple tell us a better iphone is in the works? Didn't think so.

Comes down to: If the Z10 is not good enough for you, in specs, in performance, in apps, in OS, maybe you're better off waiting until a BB10 device comes out that is. You can be sure there will be one just as you can be sure a better Galaxy/Nexus/iPhone will come - it's just _when_ that is the question. And I think not even Thorsten knows when their _next_ flagship will be out yet, hence the holding of the proverbial tongue.

I'm most definitely not bashing you. I just think your logic is a bit lopsided based on hopefulness around future devices. And I think that's a good thing, just not when you disregard all the work and effort of the current flagship for a future unannounced one.

If I came off as aggressive getting my points across, please forgive the tone.

[crimsonking]

No, of course, in fainess, I agree the Z10 is solid. The question is: just how solid. And sure, other manufacturers do release new phones throughout a year, but few that directly compete with a model that is less than a year old. So S4 comes out. Then the Note 2, but different and with different target consumers. Likewise the Z10 vs Q10. But the Z10 was launched as the flagship phone. So if in 9 months they launch their "real" flagship phone, does that mean they are willing to lose the original buyers of the z10, which, if it is truly trumped by the new phone, which one would expect it to be, then the Z10 buyers would be well justified to be miffed at BB because they would be trapped in contracts with another 6 to 12 months to run.

The Z10 is more solid then the previous BlackBerry, it is as solid as the current one, and it is probably not as solid as the next one, etc, etc...me and you can't even be sure if we'll be alive 4 months from now, nobody can. Enjoy this very solid device (I think it's great and will get better with future updates) now, and don't waste your energy and time speculating and analyzing what will be in 9 months (the technology race will never end) , life is now, that's the only sure thing. All the best.

Posted via CB10

[ramin mayar]

Ok, to be clear, for ramin mayar's peace of mind, I have nothing at all against the Z10. I'm not a troll, nor am I in any way trying to put BB, the Z10 or anyone whop loves BB down. Far from it. My point is I want the flagship phone. I have no desire to invest five thousand HK dollars when the Z10 comes out only to find that, surprise surprise, BB never intended it to be their flagship phone when, in October, or thereabouts, they launch the bells and whistles handset. My aim was to start a debate about whether BB has been a little crafty here by putting out a perfectly decnet - yet not flagship model - as a test bed to get all the field testing feedback it needs to roll out the real deal come year end.

And as happy as everyone is with their Z10, I just figure BB should have been upfront and open about what the handset inventory for this year's models would be from the get-go is all.

So from your logic. You mean people in 1975 felt that the BMW of the time was somewhat crappier than the 2013 models. And said " well I'm not gonna spend my money. I will just wait till 2013 where the BMW will have all sorts of bells Whistles" and "How dare BMW get a car out now without NAV system and seat Warmers"


Posted via a toaster.

[Bluenoser63]

Why would anyone buy a flagship S4? there is a flagship S5 coming next years that is really cool? Why would anyone buy an flagship iPhone 6? There will be a better flagship iPhone 7 next year. See a theme, there will always be a better device next year no matter who makes it. I got the Z10 and love it.

[alicepattinson]

We just have to deal that newer phones have greater specs than the old ones. That's why it's called new

[BB Marissa]

I fail to see why this is a huge gamble. Users will always be coming to the end of their contracts as they expire, equally there will always be a 'new' all singing /dancing phone around the corner. At this time between the Z10 and Q10 there are two great phones available for people to choose from, that are comparable with the current range of Android and IOS handsets available.
What would be a gamble would be bringing out the cr�me de la cr�me handset whilst still fixing issues with the OS. Letting BB10 bed in for a while only makes sense.

[hannibalmoot]

Also, if we learned anything about BB from the Playbook, we see that they do not just toss their older model devices, and their buyers, to the wayside. They built a quality tablet hardware-wise that they are still planning to reward owners with software advancements.

I can't say the same for my original Ipad that is not much older. I can't upgrade the OS anymore. I can't even update most of the apps anymore. It is definitely obsolete.

The same will go for the Z10. I don't believe you are going to be "stuck" with obsolete phone when the next model comes along. It's built solid enough and QNX is efficient enough that they will be able to offer updates for the Zed for quite some time.

STAY CALM and GRAB A ZED