[b320]

... Even simple things like setting up an email and having NOC to provision all those settings for me was already worth it I would like RIM to sell BIS themselves cuz then I can roam around the world plug in a SIM and get on with life.

Data cost did come down so... BIS is no longer relevant but for people that roams, each kb of data does cost a fortune so I was quite sad when there was no BIS, meaning the BB10 must be polling the server from time to time for new email :3

Yes, it was convenient to have BlackBerry do it but it also meant that BlackBerry had to maintain an NOC infrastructure and it made the company an even bigger target for all sorts of entities seeking to intercept your your data. If BlackBerry is no longer making money on BIS, it makes sense that they cut costs here.

You do have a new option with roaming though. Provided that you can get your device unlocked, you can go to any country and use a *local* SIM card and your data will keep working. You no longer have to reconfigure BIS with your temporary SIM's carrier or worry about whether the local carrier provides BIS. Also, should you discontinue service altogether, you can keep using your device on Wifi only and continue to have email services.

[slashstarfish]

I only read the first post, sorry if I missed something: What exactly do you mean by 'secure email'? Do you want the emails on your device to be secure against someone stealing your phone and reading the mails? Because nothing can protect you against that. Thus you first have to tell us what you want to be secure.

The BB gets mail as any other phone by connecting to the mailserver and downloading the emails. This can either be done with an encrypted connection or with a completely unencrypted one. All major provider (Google etc) have an option to use a encrypted connection, it will make sure that the message cant be captured on its way from the destination mail server (!) to your phone.

That is all the security that BB or any other email client can provide. Maybe there is malware on the computer of the sender and the mail gets into the hands of criminals before it even gets sent. If you want to make sure that the emails can only be read by the sender and the receiver you have to encrypt the message itself. On both systems (for example on the sending computer and on the receiving BB device) you need to have the software installed to decrypt it. This means that you need to make sure that both computers or smartphones are safe (safe as in free from malware and nobody has any access who isn't supposed to have it). Only then can you have secure email, if that is what you want. And it is still only the basics, it can get worse, for example: What if you want to make sure that the sender really is who he claims to be? What if you send him an encrypted answer with sensitive stuff and he is the criminal? It would still be secure email but you send it directly to the attacker...

Just some thoughts.

[Maiev]

Yes, it was convenient to have BlackBerry do it but it also meant that BlackBerry had to maintain an NOC infrastructure and it made the company an even bigger target for all sorts of entities seeking to intercept your your data. If BlackBerry is no longer making money on BIS, it makes sense that they cut costs here.

You do have a new option with roaming though. Provided that you can get your device unlocked, you can go to any country and use a *local* SIM card and your data will keep working. You no longer have to reconfigure BIS with your temporary SIM's carrier or worry about whether the local carrier provides BIS. Also, should you discontinue service altogether, you can keep using your device on Wifi only and continue to have email services.

Yea, well I know just like iPhone, plug SIM and go. However, sometime when I travel, I go to each country for 2-3 days each, it really doesn't make sense to say... have a new SIM activation fee 35 + 20 bucks for a few MB of data for each country. Rogers roaming expensive, but makes sense if you travel across many countries. Single country say, just US for a week - for sure plugging in a US sim makes perfect sense.

Anyway, in regards to BIS. I actually don't know but.. I think somehow BB10 still uses BIS... because.. if the phone was "polling" the email, then how could email still arrive instantly... still. And no, these are normal gmail configured just through email, not even entering exchange settings... (I was lazy lol)....

I make sure I was on LTE and not WiFi (cuz if it was really polling, I could imagine it "polls" more often on WiFi due to the lower power consumption).

[b320]

Anyway, in regards to BIS. I actually don't know but.. I think somehow BB10 still uses BIS... because.. if the phone was "polling" the email, then how could email still arrive instantly... still. And no, these are normal gmail configured just through email, not even entering exchange settings... (I was lazy lol)....

Gmail's IMAP servers support (since approximately year 2007) a quasi "push" service (called IMAP-IDLE), which is why you're getting nearly-push email delivery. No, BIS is not involved in this process.

One could argue (and people have on other threads) that both IMAP-IDLE and Exchange ActiveSync are fake push but the bottom line is Exchange ActiveSync is marketed (and generally accepted) as "Push." If you're getting good enough results from IMAP-IDLE, you may not need EAS.

The only thing you can't have right now is the sort of fake push that resulted from forwarding an email address on a non-push-capable email system to a BlackBerry Hosted email address (.blackberry .net or .blackberry .com), which *would* get pushed to BlackBerry devices.

[Maiev]

Gmail's IMAP servers support (since approximately year 2007) a quasi "push" service (called IMAP-IDLE), which is why you're getting nearly-push email delivery. No, BIS is not involved in this process.

Learn something everyday, didnt know that

I guess BIS made "everything" appears push since, even if say your ISP is POP only, they can check POP all day until there's an email and then fly it to your blackberry.

But definitely good to know the IMAP IDLE is some form of push... so in a way, iPhone do get emails instantly as well.. didnt have to actually configure it to use activesync or fake an exchange servers etc.

So based on what you say, then why are people flipping out when Google drop activesync.. when IMAP IDLE does the same thing?

[greatwiseone]

Here are a couple of articles on this....

BIS, bash, bosh: El Reg solves BlackBerry 10 email bafflement ? The Register

BIS deals won

BIS and BlackBerry 10 explained

BlackBerry 10 BIS changes in SA confirmed

[slashstarfish]

By the way, Exchange Active Sync supports a feature called Direct Push since 2003 - it's a real push feature and as far as my experience goes it works perfectly well.

[belfastdispatcher]

Learn something everyday, didnt know that

I guess BIS made "everything" appears push since, even if say your ISP is POP only, they can check POP all day until there's an email and then fly it to your blackberry.

But definitely good to know the IMAP IDLE is some form of push... so in a way, iPhone do get emails instantly as well.. didnt have to actually configure it to use activesync or fake an exchange servers etc.

So based on what you say, then why are people flipping out when Google drop activesync.. when IMAP IDLE does the same thing?

I host my site and emails with 1and1.co.uk and they support IMAP IDLE, emails are instant.
Edit only problem with them is they charge quite a lot for exchange, �9.99 per user, far too much.

[dd3]

Why is it people focus on the technical and miss the point?

Security is about use and location of information and risk of compromise.

With BIS you ARE more secure than without irrespective of email system and transport. The information you send and receive is secure upto and through the BlackBerry noc, thus you can use any network connection safe in the knowledge your information is as secure as you can make it, then from the BlackBerry secure infrastructures your information is not somewhere the local opportunistic hacker can sniff the network for messages in transit.


Without bis BlackBerry have pushed the responsibility of knowing about email security more towards the user. Using the same as previous free unencrypted email account now my emails go over any local network unsecure... This is a compromise and one that means people need to know more than they did before

Granted most isps probably now do secure connections but the average user doesnt understand this stuff, and the risk is they may not get it right.




Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[kbz1960]

How about this. Yes I know it doesn't happen often but how do you all feel when there is a BIS blackout? I know how most feel by the post on here when it has happened.

[momofteme]

For those of you worried about your data security by using a gmail, or hotmail account, their paid versions are not very expensive...$20 anually for a paid/ad free outlook account.(I assume that means no data mining of your account)

Google's premium service is not much either $50 a year I think, and coomes with apps, and drive.

I haven't researched the EULA's or privacy statments of these services so I may be all wet, but I assume the paid accounst come with ssl and real time push.

[BlackBerry Guy]

No BIS also means your phone doesn't become a paperweight during an outage.

[dtsolov]

No matter what said, BIS saved a lot of money when travelling. It had great roaming packages from my operator. Now it is gone. When roaming it is as bricky as an iphone unless you are ready to pay 2000 bucks per week for a trip or only route data via PUBLIC free wifi

NO GOOD

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[momofteme]

I also researched some hosted BES, you guys could have your very own super secure BES system with all the bells and whistles for around $10/month.

[JR A]

I have had this in my mind for awhile. Z10 is okay without BIS, but they should at LEAST give BIS as an option, like say, sign up 5 dollars and you have an agreement with RIM to have BIS served to you, attach to your blackberry ID (so you can swap SIM and continue to enjoy BIS). I really enjoy data compression now LTE eats data like a superstar

There are two things to address here:

1. BIS data compression did NOT compress streaming/downloading music, videos, etc. So it wouldn't make a difference (just email).

2. LTE doesn't necessarily "eat data like a superstar". LTE provides a faster connection, but whether or not you're getting your content at 10Mbps or 100Mbps, a 20MB YouTube clip you're watching is still only using 20MB of your data...

[SwitchBeach]

No matter what said, BIS saved a lot of money when travelling. It had great roaming packages from my operator. Now it is gone. When roaming it is as bricky as an iphone unless you are ready to pay 2000 bucks per week for a trip or only route data via PUBLIC free wifi

NO GOOD

But this is a carrier/operator issue. They could just as easily offer you "great roaming packages" on an plan. But they (apparently) are choosing not to do that.

You should take it up with them.

[Chriz]

Wow...now we can say, that BB10 is more consumer friendly?

What? Your eMail is slow? Wrong settings...do this, this, then this and last this! I know such a lot of people with wrong eMail settings(Android, iOS) and they didn't know it. BB10 is a toy now...And no official will ever write something about this. Kevin? I now you promised in a last post, but you cant. There is too many negatives without BIS for a consumer. Bla1ze tried sometimes in the forum, but its always the same...only sentences like: You all didnt know how BIS really works...Change eMail provider...change settings...change this and this...

And last but not least...Look at your Battery Symbol how fast it can be go to the left, or look at your data consumption... Deal with it!

[dtsolov]

Yeah and this thing was as per blackberry in the making to make it perfect.

Remove BIS, but don't add any data counter. Bravo.

And Mrs advisors carriers won't offer me the plan BID one could. Because such plans were backed by RIM infrastructure. If you dig a bit, you may learn that RIM was Co powering BIS channels and that specific access points /towers were used.


I don't buy this crap that it is now my problem. Yeah actually it is - now we have inferior product from a business user point of view. I fly 5 times a month, can be more at times. BIS was good thing. Now I have the same proposition as any android can do.

Yeah and having no sound profile management, auto on off, multiple alarms only tells me someone wanted to build Z10 for teenagers.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[valas]

Data at rest is as important, if not more, than data in transit. QNX is a hardened OS. Malware is usually the culprit in data leakage situations.

[dtsolov]

Data at rest is as important, if not more, than data in transit. QNX is a hardened OS. Malware is usually the culprit in data leakage situations.

Did not os7 support encryption?

And yeah, thanks for cheering us up. Z10 is a perfect flash drive? Lol

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[Thunderbuck]

There is no reason to go for Z10 when emails are just as in any other smartphone...Android has all the apps, BB does not...so why buy a z10 when you dont get what was the selling point in Blackberry for years i.e Secure Email, compressed data?

...maybe some people will actually prefer BB10 to Android or iOS? There are other features that differentiate it, you know...

[dtsolov]

...maybe some people will actually prefer BB10 to Android or iOS? There are other features that differentiate it, you know...

Like what? No silly multiple alarms? Screwed profiles? No clever holster settings anymore? What is unique except BBM? Nothing. Unless you need an excuse to carry alarm clock with you.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

[cjcampbell]

Like what? No silly multiple alarms? Screwed profiles? No clever holster settings anymore? What is unique except BBM? Nothing. Unless you need an excuse to carry alarm clock with you.

Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10

What differentiates iOS and Android? User experience. What now differentiates BB10 from the others? User experience. If you want to go to Android, nobody is holding you back. Maybe it would be a better experience for you.

[hennesseystealth]

If you are worried about data plans, get an unlocked Z10 and take it to Solavei (US). LTE unlimited everything including data $49/mo and only a $9 activation fee. If the Z10 ever makes it to the US, that is where I am heading now that Verizon won't grandfather my old 3G unlimited plan.

[overzeer]

1. Email is by definition insecure. It travels from server to server and everything in the way is supposed to be able to read some stuff from it (mail headers at least).

2. Email can be secured by encrypting the content specially with, say, a public key of the recipient. One example is PGP but that requires special software on both ends and is no longer typical email - email only becomes a tunnel. BBM instant messaging has this built in (not email) and is the reason why some governments didn't like BBs - they could not tap into BBM communication. Neither could can RIM (BlackBerry) as the messages are already encrypted before they get to them.

3. Email can also be considered secure if it is known to travel only via encrypted communication protocols given the route it must take. Generally one can only rely on this within one organization - the moment it has to delegate email transmission to another all bets are off.

4. Web mail managed by "Someone Else" such as Google, Microsoft or otherwise (actually does not have to be web at all) is also insecure - they can read your email whenever they want and if they want. So - insecure. The only email server you could trust is your own, but then again others would not trust you, so you'd be the only one using it

5. BB10 can and DOES encrypt its communication with email servers when this is supported by that email server. This prevents carriers or mobile network sniffers from seeing your email unencrypted. BIS does the same - it acts as a capable proxy with additional functionality such as additional compression, separation of attachments from main email for even less transmission and conversion of these attachments into mobile friendly formats. But BIS is not any more secure than BB10 accessing same email servers directly using encrypted communication.

Hope this puts this matter to rest.




Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10