[kramerica5]

You mean like nowhere and then downhill???

I don't know what makes anyone think there will ever be a BIS product for BB10...it will never happen. Get over it and move on everyone.

There are NO e-mail delays with the Z10, BIS or not...it is instant for almost all mail accounts, and for sure for all of the big ones, like gmail, hotmail, active sync (exchange) and many others...

Sigh......

No delays huh? I use gmail, set to imap idle and it just took 30 mins for me to receive an email. In general, I have found that the delay is slim to none, but occasionally it takes an absurd amount of time for it to reach my Z10.

[Phaethonas]

Move on my friend.

[bobauckland]

I really dont follow your logic... But like Bla1ze said, no amount of wishing will bring BIS back (and the things you've mentioned so far aren't quite BIS as I remember).

Bear in mind Blaze also said data compression was going nowhere just a month or so before BB10 release.
Nobody has all the facts except BlackBerry, no matter how confident they sound.

And BlackBerry has made no firm statement on BIS.
Until they do, I'll live in hope.
I refuse to believe a company like that would just walk away from such a large income source.

[Mercury]

Bear in mind Blaze also said data compression was going nowhere just a month or so before BB10 release.
Nobody has all the facts except BlackBerry, no matter how confident they sound.

And BlackBerry has made no firm statement on BIS.
Until they do, I'll live in hope.
I refuse to believe a company like that would just walk away from such a large income source.

Why do you think they shocked investors on December 20th 2012 when they announced they are dropping BIS on BB10? DO you really think they would say that openly and go "Guess what, we're not using BIS anymore, so our billion dollar revenue stream is now toast" It wasn't their choice in the matter.

Hope and dream all you want, but how long will you hope and dream before you realize BB isn't using BIS anymore?

[belfastdispatcher]

Why do you think they shocked investors on December 20th 2012 when they announced they are dropping BIS on BB10? DO you really think they would say that openly and go "Guess what, we're not using BIS anymore, so our billion dollar revenue stream is now toast" It wasn't their choice in the matter.

Hope and dream all you want, but how long will you hope and dream before you realize BB isn't using BIS anymore?

Didn't they also say they plan to monetise in different ways? Bis or compression could be one as an optional extra.

[DivideBYZero]

People need to get off the BIS crutch. The world moved on, and so did BlackBerry and I approve.

[belfastdispatcher]

People need to get off the BIS crutch. The world moved on, and so did BlackBerry and I approve.

Have they really? I'm pretty sure BlackBerry still have some 70 million BIS users right now.

[Mercury]

Have they really? I'm pretty sure BlackBerry still have some 70 million BIS users right now.

They have, anyone with BB10 Z10 or soon to be Q10's are off of BIS, and as the world slowly upgrades to BB10 phones, bye bye BIS

And as far as getting new money in place of BIS revenue, I'm pretty sure they have another strategy beyond higher gross margins of the phones.

[bobauckland]

Why do you think they shocked investors on December 20th 2012 when they announced they are dropping BIS on BB10? DO you really think they would say that openly and go "Guess what, we're not using BIS anymore, so our billion dollar revenue stream is now toast" It wasn't their choice in the matter.

Hope and dream all you want, but how long will you hope and dream before you realize BB isn't using BIS anymore?

The minute someone from BlackBerry, an official, says, on the record, that BB10 will not support BIS ever, not even as an option, I will give up hope that minute.
But it hasn't happened yet.

I even wrote to Clewley directly.
He responds to a lot of qs.
Not this one.
It's not straightforward.

Go on, tweet him, if he responds and confirms what you're saying, I'll accept it.

[belfastdispatcher]

They have, anyone with BB10 Z10 or soon to be Q10's are off of BIS, and as the world slowly upgrades to BB10 phones, bye bye BIS

And as far as getting new money in place of BIS revenue, I'm pretty sure they have another strategy beyond higher gross margins of the phones.

That's gonna take a lot longer than you think, BBOS devices are still being sold every day, some on 2 years contract. Not everybody is opting for the expensive Z10 when they can get a 9900 or 9790 on �20 or less a month.

[DivideBYZero]

Have they really? I'm pretty sure BlackBerry still have some 70 million BIS users right now.

No. Subscribers != BIS users. I know you love BIS, but complaining about it's absence on BB10 isn't going to make it funky, modern or relevant. It's time has passed.

[belfastdispatcher]

No. Subscribers != BIS users. I know you love BIS, but complaining about it's absence on BB10 isn't going to make it funky, modern or relevant. It's time has passed.

Yes, that's what I meant and I left out a few millions to account for z10 owners. The bulk is still BIS subscribers and for some 40 millions at least BB10 will be out of their budget range.

[Mercury]

That's gonna take a lot longer than you think, BBOS devices are still being sold every day, some on 2 years contract. Not everybody is opting for the expensive Z10 when they can get a 9900 or 9790 on �20 or less a month.

Yes I know that, and they have said, they will maintain BIS servers for the time being. But their new product lineups don't have BIS included as they conceded to the carriers demands about the BIS fees that the carriers pay.

[bobauckland]

No. Subscribers != BIS users. I know you love BIS, but complaining about it's absence on BB10 isn't going to make it funky, modern or relevant. It's time has passed.

Again, says you.

[belfastdispatcher]

Yes I know that, and they have said, they will maintain BIS servers for the time being. But their new product lineups don't have BIS included as they conceded to the carriers demands about the BIS fees that the carriers pay.

You just assume that, you don't know for sure.

There's no BIS servers by the way, there's the NOC servers and those are active with or without BIS, BES still uses them, BBM still uses them, BlackBerry World, BBID, Protect etc.

No BIS doesn't mean no NOC.

[Frehley]

Yes I know that, and they have said, they will maintain BIS servers for the time being. But their new product lineups don't have BIS included as they conceded to the carriers demands about the BIS fees that the carriers pay.

Your comment that they conceded to the carriers demands about the BIS fees that the carriers pay is what we have an issue with. Many of us have said in many threads that we would be willing to pay extra to have the functions/features of BIS on our BB10 devices. Just give us the choice.

[Mercury]

You just assume that, you don't know for sure.

There's no BIS servers by the way, there's the NOC servers and those are active with or without BIS, BES still uses them, BBM still uses them, BlackBerry World, BBID, Protect etc.

No BIS doesn't mean no NOC.

Yes I know that, my friend works at BB and is a network engineer that helps maintain and test features of the NOC...

[Mercury]

Your comment that they conceded to the carriers demands about the BIS fees that the carriers pay is what we have an issue with. Many of us have said in many threads that we would be willing to pay extra to have the functions/features of BIS on our BB10 devices. Just give us the choice.

Well the choice is up to BB and the carriers. Not the end users.

[belfastdispatcher]

Yes I know that, my friend works at BB and is a network engineer that helps maintain and test features of the NOC...

Then you should know his job is secure.

[belfastdispatcher]

Well the choice is up to BB and the carriers. Not the end users.

What happened to the customer is always right?

[Mercury]

Then you should know his job is secure.

Yup, he's been there for 6yrs now. He knows he's not being phased out by BIS going away.

And since when at least here in North America, has the carrier allowed the customer to be right? Here in Canada, I'm not sure if you know this, we pay the highest cellphone rates of any country in the world. Canadian cellphone rates among world's worst - Technology & Science - CBC News
http://www.torontosun.com/money/2010.../15743476.html

We have a lobbyist group for the past few years trying to get the government to step in to help give us customers the voice to be heard by the cellphone companies for getting us lower cellphone rates.

As I say, at least here in Canada and most cell companies in North America, the customer is NOT right.

[bobauckland]

Yes I know that, my friend works at BB and is a network engineer that helps maintain and test features of the NOC...

I'll say it again
The minute someone from BlackBerry, an official, says, on the record, that BB10 will not support BIS ever, not even as an option, I will give up hope that minute.
But it hasn't happened yet.

I even wrote to Clewley directly.
He responds to a lot of qs.
Not this one.
It's not straightforward.

Go on, tweet him, if he responds and confirms what you're saying, I'll accept it.

[belfastdispatcher]

Yup, he's been there for 6yrs now. He knows he's not being phased out by BIS going away.

And since when at least here in North America, has the carrier allowed the customer to be right? Here in Canada, I'm not sure if you know this, we pay the highest cellphone rates of any country in the world. Canadian cellphone rates among world's worst - Technology & Science - CBC News
http://www.torontosun.com/money/2010.../15743476.html

We have a lobbyist group for the past few years trying to get the government to step in to help give us customers the voice to be heard by the cellphone companies for getting us lower cellphone rates.

As I say, at least here in Canada and most cell companies in North America, the customer is NOT right.

I'm sure having a small population and a large territory to cover has something to do with the high prices too.

[DivideBYZero]

Yes, that's what I meant and I left out a few millions to account for z10 owners. The bulk is still BIS subscribers and for some 40 millions at least BB10 will be out of their budget range.

BES != BIS, so you'd need to discount all BES provisioned BBOS4-7 accounts which also count toward subscribers.

Also, as to the NOC jobs, the one poster's friend may be safe, but the old Egham NOC guys were gutted not long ago when they were finally moved over to Bath Rd.

[unbreakablej]

Actually from what I understand BIS is optional on BB10 in a way... but what if I bought the phone sim free and I am still using my old bis enabled plan... do I get to enjoy its benefits or are they redundant on the z10? thanks in advance!

Posted via CB10