07-01-09 02:27 PM
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  1. cmptrnrd16's Avatar
    The program is so good it reached into your mind and saw where you had been in the past.


    Last known location is not being polled from the phone. It's not being polled at all. It just comes up to that by default when it can't find a last known location. Others have reported the same.
    It is like when you first buy a Garmin and it tells you that you are in KS.
    07-18-08 06:51 PM
  2. timowen1's Avatar
    i think you're reducing a more nuanced situation into polemics. I knew GPS was locked when i bought, and if they dont unlock it....fine. I'll either get a puck or just not care. agreed - if people don't like it, they can go elsewhere.

    But the assertion that the consumer has no say, and if they should (gasp) even give their opinion on what would make their service better - they are all a bunch of whiners? c'mon.
    Maybe whiners was a little harsh, but to talk of a class action suit to sue VZW for crippling the GPS. I think asking or giving an opinion about unlocking is good, it may be the thing that makes it happen one day.
    Just a question. If copying a cd or dvd is stealing would unlocking the gps yourself, if someone can figure it out, stealing? I think it's just a matter of time before some genius hacker gets it right.
    07-18-08 09:58 PM
  3. fonebrkr's Avatar
    Just a question. If copying a cd or dvd is stealing would unlocking the gps yourself, if someone can figure it out, stealing? I think it's just a matter of time before some genius hacker gets it right.
    Copying a CD or DVD that you already own as a backup is legal, just as unlocking the GPS on a phone you own is legal. Using an app like vz navigator without paying, not legal.

    That being said, I used vznav for the first time on my pearl and it did OK, but talk about a memory leaking space hogging app, geez...
    It was alot better on my RAZR. This time around, the GPS didn't seem as accurate as it did on my dumbphone, kinda laggy and not quite right on some of the directions or my actual location. I wonder if that's part of the whole GPS lockdown on the berries.
    Hopefully, the genius hackers are presently at work, I believe in BB land they are called developers though..
    07-18-08 11:30 PM
  4. thesuzukimethod's Avatar
    I'm surprised they haven't done so already - and i'll be honest - I've at least looked around to see if anyone has been able to...but I'm not sure if i would do this - as i fear messing something up...

    and agreed - talk of a class action lawsuit is ridiculous.

    my biggest issue isn't the fee - if they feel it's market savvy or prudent to charge for GPS access, either monthly or as a one-time fee - that's fine. But it would be nice to have that option... the whole "vznav or nothing" approach is a little annoying, simply b/c there are so many apps out there that would/could benefit from location-aware capability.
    07-18-08 11:31 PM
  5. WackBerry's Avatar
    I dont have a need for the GPS so I dont really mind or care either way.

    Would it be nice on the occasion that I do need it to be able to use it since the phone is capable...of course. If they unlock it great-if not my world will not crash and burn.

    On the other hand-I have Verizon as much as I have had a few and very far between issues with them I like them, that is why I signed another contract with them, I think I have dropped a call 1 time in 2 1/2 years...they have always been able to help me any problems I had whether in store or over the phone...CS is great. I could switch and be less happy with another carrier or deal with the locked GPS.
    07-19-08 01:18 AM
  6. Jendoll15's Avatar
    Most demo phones at the store from older models like the curve will not fully launch the vz nav app anymore. Due to the app for vz nav will only work with current software and keeping demos updated takes time stores don't really have. Nothing is locked on the Verizon phones. You can download several gps apps. Of course the free ones and the trial offers all eventually ask for money to maintain and support the info. Vz nav's current version includes real time traffic updates and the current local fuel pump prices and stations to find u the best deal.those are just 2 of the newest features. If 9.99 or .33 cents a day approx is too much. Try an app with a one time purchase fee just know it won't be real time and may need upgrades 6 to 9 months later that u may have to pay for. The company who makes VZ navigator is a third part company doing quite well and have announced to continue with their service as is at 9.99 but there's enough free apps to to compare it to

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-19-08 01:46 AM
  7. K2RRT's Avatar
    Nothing is locked on the Verizon phones. You can download several gps apps.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The GPS is locked. No third party apps can even see it.
    07-19-08 02:39 AM
  8. RockAndRollAcdc's Avatar
    It was alot better on my RAZR. This time around, the GPS didn't seem as accurate as it did on my dumbphone, kinda laggy and not quite right on some of the directions or my actual location. I wonder if that's part of the whole GPS lockdown on the berries.
    Hopefully, the genius hackers are presently at work, I believe in BB land they are called developers though..
    fonebrk
    I found this also true with Nav4all. If youre walking with it and stop, the little circle jumps all over. I personally never use the one verizon offers. But, i've found that BB maps works real well. If your taking a walk and stop, it stays dead on youre spot. So, i think it's the program you have, not the berry.
    07-19-08 07:06 AM
  9. grayzweb's Avatar
    I can't see verizon doing this with 8830 customers. I hope they do but i just cant see it. I can see the thunder having it unlocked though to compete with the iphone2 though?
    I think that this might happen on the new touchscreen as well. Anyone know where to find that petition ..... I would gladly like to put my name on there
    07-19-08 07:10 AM
  10. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    How nice. Is it a multi-billion dollar business like Verizon?
    No. Is yours?
    Not yet, but by giving the customer what he wants (within reason) and protecting significant revenue streams, I think I've got a pretty good shot at it some day
    07-19-08 09:57 AM
  11. kwsmithphoto's Avatar
    Not yet, but by giving the customer what he wants (within reason) and protecting significant revenue streams, I think I've got a pretty good shot at it some day
    He he. Well, I'll never make a billion dollars in photography, but I always give my customers what they want while still protecting additional revenue streams like the right to re-sell a photograph to someone other than the person who paid me to take it, and I charge additional fees for mundane things like basic file preparation, color correction, and my time to transfer image files. I also limit usage unless they want what's called a buyout, which incurs a hefty fee. I make that perfectly clear in my estimate and invoices.

    Now you're probably thinking that what I do isn't all that different than what Verizon is doing, and you're partially right. Crucial difference is that I'm only in the business of licensing intellectual property. So is Verizon, to some degree, so I understand their position, I just think it's dumb. And what I do isn't anti-competitive; if someone wants exclusive rights or unlimited usage for an image I create, I will offer it to them for an additional fee so they can do whatever they want with it.

    Conversely, Verizon could make an additional revenue stream for themselves by including GPS unlock for ALL applications if you subscribe to VZ Nav, or simply pay them $10 a month. I wouldn't have a problem with that. Instead they've chosen a business model which prevents other developers from having access to a feature that's built into the phone for any purpose whatsoever, even if their product doesn't compete with any of Verizon's offerings.

    The FTC and other country's regulatory bodies had a much weaker case against Microsoft about the Explorer thing, and Microsoft lost every time anyway.

    The one thing the two situations do have in common is that Microsoft prevented system integrators from pre-installing competitive software. That's what got them into trouble, and I think it was silly to stop them because the user COULD install competitive software and legally use it with full functionality.

    With Verizon and GPS, however, they cannot. That's blatantly anti-competitive. It's only legal until a court or the FTC says it isn't though, and I'm certain that day will come unless Verizon prevents it by changing a few lines of code and their customer agreement.

    I think it would be a wise thing for them to get ahead of the issue before someone forces their hand and possibly/probably fines them. I also think it would make them more money in the long run via customer retention by enabling more choices for the customer.

    The policy they currently have is stone-age stupidity, IMHO, and there's enough legal precedent to stop them if someone wants to take it that far. As much as I normally hate class-action suits that claim me as a party to without my permission, I'm on board with this one.
    07-21-08 03:37 AM
  12. NeveSSL's Avatar
    If I had the resources I'd at least look into a class action suit, but I definitely don't have the cash to pursue such action.

    If someone else did, though, if it was possible of winning, I'd definitely jump on board.

    Brandon
    07-21-08 03:47 AM
  13. kwsmithphoto's Avatar
    There already is a class action suit on the books for 8830 users, claiming deceitful advertising. Verizon has since clarified their advertising. Not sure what the actual status of the suit is though, but like most class-action suits, if you have an 8830 you're part of it whether you want to be or not. Look for a $3 check in you mail if they win.

    What's really needed is for developers like Garmin and other position-aware software to gather their resources and take on Verizon directly.

    But there are some petitions you can personally sign onto. I was told that I can't link to any of these things here but they're out there if you look.
    07-21-08 04:27 AM
  14. RockAndRollAcdc's Avatar
    Conversely, Verizon could make an additional revenue stream for themselves by including GPS unlock for ALL applications if you subscribe to VZ Nav, or simply pay them $10 a month. I wouldn't have a problem with that.
    Very nicely put kwsmithphoto

    I'm also willing to pay $10 a month, or a nominal fee for one year, to have a GPS program Or try any free program i choose. As along as it's my choose of what GPS program i want to use. like right now I'm trying out Nav4all. In 2010 there going to charge a price to use this program. If i like it that much, i probably pay to keep it. I'm not in favor of a company, Alltell, verizon or anyone else, forcing me to buy there product. Look at how anti-virus programs work. You pay $60 for one year then if you wish to keep them, you pay again (personally on that issue.. i think they should have a maintness fee for half the price). I'm a design Engineer, we pay a yearly maintness fee on our cad system. (not full price of original software cost) So to sum this up..VERIZON, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR YOU KNOW WHAT AND GIVE THE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY WANT!!!!
    07-21-08 05:25 AM
  15. teylini's Avatar
    Conversely, Verizon could make an additional revenue stream for themselves by including GPS unlock for ALL applications if you subscribe to VZ Nav, or simply pay them $10 a month. I wouldn't have a problem with that.
    This would be a good start.
    07-21-08 08:03 AM
  16. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    (snip)
    With Verizon and GPS, however, they cannot. That's blatantly anti-competitive. It's only legal until a court or the FTC says it isn't though, and I'm certain that day will come unless Verizon prevents it by changing a few lines of code and their customer agreement.
    (snip)
    Verizon doesn't have an exclusive on the hardware, though. The same Blackberries are available elsewhere, with GPS enabled for 3rd party applications. If anything, that fosters competition . . . Verizon elects to compete on coverage and customer service, while other vendors would prefer to compete on bells and whistles. If you can forgo the former for the latter, spend your money elsewhere . . . it's really that simple.

    On a side note, I'm assuming you're unaware that Verizon has a Developers program through which LBS-enabled apps can be created that leverage the GPS in Verizon's phones. So it is not strictly correct to state that Verizon prevents 3rd parties from developing GPS applications that work on the hardware it sells.
    Last edited by Dodge Deboulet; 07-21-08 at 03:14 PM.
    07-21-08 03:10 PM
  17. RockAndRollAcdc's Avatar
    Verizon doesn't have an exclusive on the hardware, though. The same Blackberries are available elsewhere, with GPS enabled for 3rd party applications. If anything, that fosters competition . . . Verizon elects to compete on coverage and customer service, while other vendors would prefer to compete on bells and whistles. If you can forgo the former for the latter, spend your money elsewhere . . . it's really that simple.
    .
    Well when I got my first cell phone I look at customer service and phone coverage. At the time it was AllTel. AllTel didn't sell me a phone because of bells
    And whistles, how you put it. With out beating this subject to death. Verizon locks there phones so you have to pay them, it's wrong. I as a consumer should have a choice.

    And one more thing. I meant not be able to spend my money else where. AT&T and Tmoble phone coverage sucks where I live.
    07-21-08 06:26 PM
  18. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    On a side note, I'm assuming you're unaware that Verizon has a Developers program through which LBS-enabled apps can be created that leverage the GPS in Verizon's phones. So it is not strictly correct to state that Verizon prevents 3rd parties from developing GPS applications that work on the hardware it sells.
    Have you read the guidelines for it. It blatantly states that all applications will be build and designed to be a revenue building resource for Verizon and that no app would be allowed that does not follow said guidelines.
    07-21-08 07:07 PM
  19. teylini's Avatar
    Verizon elects to compete on coverage and customer service, while other vendors would prefer to compete on bells and whistles. If you can forgo the former for the latter, spend your money elsewhere . . . it's really that simple.
    I see your points. However, I'm not sure that I agree that allowing access to built-in GPS is really a bell-and-whistle. Is the built-in BlackBerry address book a bell-and-whistle? What if Verizon blocked access to it and only allowed access to it via a WAP site that they charged $9.99 a month for?

    I am within my 30-day return right and I just might jump on over to AT&T.

    And whistles, how you put it. With out beating this subject to death. Verizon locks there phones so you have to pay them, it's wrong. I as a consumer should have a choice.
    I wish that access to the built-in GPS was free. But since it is not, I wish that we could access it by paying a small fee. Unfortunately, we cannot. The monthly fee only allows Verizon's VZNavigator to access the GPS, not sweet programs like Google Maps.
    Last edited by teylini; 07-21-08 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Quoted RockAndRollAcdc
    07-21-08 10:58 PM
  20. anon(368121)'s Avatar
    I am within my 30-day return right and I just might jump on over to AT&T.
    Bravo! That's the spirit!

    Seriously, that's the sort of statement Verizon listens to. Make sure you're specific when you tell them why you're returning the phone, too.

    And good luck with AT&T. I'm sure the access to GPS functionality will outweigh the poor EDGE browsing/tethering speeds and the spotty coverage in rural areas.

    Whatever works for you
    07-22-08 09:39 PM
  21. douglaswilson's Avatar
    I see your points. However, I'm not sure that I agree that allowing access to built-in GPS is really a bell-and-whistle. Is the built-in BlackBerry address book a bell-and-whistle? What if Verizon blocked access to it and only allowed access to it via a WAP site that they charged $9.99 a month for?

    I am within my 30-day return right and I just might jump on over to AT&T.


    I wish that access to the built-in GPS was free. But since it is not, I wish that we could access it by paying a small fee. Unfortunately, we cannot. The monthly fee only allows Verizon's VZNavigator to access the GPS, not sweet programs like Google Maps.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-22-08 09:51 PM
  22. teylini's Avatar
    And good luck with AT&T. I'm sure the access to GPS functionality will outweigh the poor EDGE browsing/tethering speeds and the spotty coverage in rural areas.
    Actually, where I live in Northern Nevada, AT&T has better coverage. By that I mean, fewer dropped calls. You may have a point regarding the network speeds though, they could be much slower than Verizon.

    My dream situation would be to keep Verizon and have access to the internal GPS.
    07-22-08 10:02 PM
  23. mr.saving's Avatar
    Is VZW the only company to lock down the GPS?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-23-08 01:53 AM
  24. ok4a56's Avatar
    Is VZW the only company to lock down the GPS?
    As far as I know, yes

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-23-08 03:00 AM
  25. mr.saving's Avatar
    ........Bummer
    07-23-08 04:40 AM
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