[roeod4]

While I do like my wireless optical mouse on my desktop, I like the trackball on my BB. If it gets dirty or hangs up, I can clean it or replace it for a few bucks. The touchpad will more than likely require more software on the phone (taking up precious app memory no doubt) and be much more expensive to replace if it has a problem. Not a deal breaker for me if it has one, but I would prefer a nice trackball instead. Viva la trackball!!!

not blaming verizon... just saying that it seems that CDMA has a lot of limits to its technology that GSM doesnt have. So in order to compete, verizon needs to offer things to remain competitive. As far as what carriers can and cannot request, thats a debatable topic despite me not blaming verizon for CDMA limitations.

I think Verizon is offering LTE to remain competitive.....no wait, that is to rule the entire market.

[madphone]

not blaming verizon... just saying that it seems that CDMA has a lot of limits to its technology that GSM doesnt have. So in order to compete, verizon needs to offer things to remain competitive. As far as what carriers can and cannot request, thats a debatable topic despite me not blaming verizon for CDMA limitations.

I disagree. The only real limitation of CDMA is that we can not do voice and data transmission at the same time. Other than that what real limit is there for the end user? Does this limitation really effect you? I don't have a problem with it as of yet. I also think that as far as networks go, VZW is top notch.

On Topic: I would live an optical trackball. I have had a Curve and a Pearl, both with a track ball. They were fine but I was cleaning them out regularly. I also really like the newest technology, and that would be it for the BlackBerry line.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I disagree. The only real limitation of CDMA is that we can not do voice and data transmission at the same time. Other than that what real limit is there for the end user? Does this limitation really effect you? I don't have a problem with it as of yet. I also think that as far as networks go, VZW is top notch.

On Topic: I would live an optical trackball. I have had a Curve and a Pearl, both with a track ball. They were fine but I was cleaning them out regularly. I also really like the newest technology, and that would be it for the BlackBerry line.

Going to have to disagree a tiny bit here. Before the disagreement, let me say that voice and data is absolutely awesome. For me, I have to be able to be on a conference call, and send multiple emails, or be on a call and check the status of certain things online, as well as testing the software itself seeing how it reacts to particular situations. But I have to be able to do both simultaneously which is why Verizon isn't even a contender for my cellular service.
As for what I disagree about, and only minor really, is I believe a limitation of CDMA, Verizon for instance, is that you can only use it in the US. Like with the 8330 for example. Now RIM saw this problem, and incorporated the quadband radios and HSPA bands, which was a great step. But other than that minor detail, theres not a whole lot of difference.

As for the trackball versus the trackpad, I'm falling in love with the trackpad. It works real well functionality wise. I'm still not totally sold on the looks, but it's growing on me as well. I think it's only the continuing evolution of technology, and will be a welcome addition to the BlackBerry line when fully implemented into all devices.

[RicanMedic78]

I disagree. The only real limitation of CDMA is that we can not do voice and data transmission at the same time. Other than that what real limit is there for the end user? Does this limitation really effect you? I don't have a problem with it as of yet. I also think that as far as networks go, VZW is top notch.

On Topic: I would live an optical trackball. I have had a Curve and a Pearl, both with a track ball. They were fine but I was cleaning them out regularly. I also really like the newest technology, and that would be it for the BlackBerry line.

To add to cx's point, other limitations include, lack of wifi (as far as we know) partly due to CDMA technology, greater battery drain, larger CDMA radio making it difficult to marry features into one device, lower mhz, limited travel, no voice and data which is the big one, and less freedom to switch handsets unlike GSM.

There are CDMA benefits, however, these are the limitations...

[madphone]

Going to have to disagree a tiny bit here. Before the disagreement, let me say that voice and data is absolutely awesome. For me, I have to be able to be on a conference call, and send multiple emails, or be on a call and check the status of certain things online, as well as testing the software itself seeing how it reacts to particular situations. But I have to be able to do both simultaneously which is why Verizon isn't even a contender for my cellular service.
As for what I disagree about, and only minor really, is I believe a limitation of CDMA, Verizon for instance, is that you can only use it in the US. Like with the 8330 for example. Now RIM saw this problem, and incorporated the quadband radios and HSPA bands, which was a great step. But other than that minor detail, theres not a whole lot of difference.

As for the trackball versus the trackpad, I'm falling in love with the trackpad. It works real well functionality wise. I'm still not totally sold on the looks, but it's growing on me as well. I think it's only the continuing evolution of technology, and will be a welcome addition to the BlackBerry line when fully implemented into all devices.

I should have thought about the larger picture, since I am back in school for International Supply Chain Management. So for me in a couple years, that would be a heck of a big deal. I won't make that mistake again.

As for voice and data, that too is obviously a big deal, just not to my very limited use. However I can see where it could become a lot more important.

I guess, for the limited use of the "average" smart phone user it might not be a big deal.

to the OP, I am not sure if the wifi is not added because of CDMA or more due to carrier choice. As for switching devices, I personally have never wanted this feature, until now. I am thinking I will get a 9630 to use part of the time and keep my Storm to use evenings and weekends or when I just want to have the Storm. We can do it but we have to go through some loops. Unless anyone knows a way to do it faster than getting on line and handling it that way.

[noaim]

To add to cx's point, other limitations include, lack of wifi (as far as we know) partly due to CDMA technology, greater battery drain, larger CDMA radio making it difficult to marry features into one device, lower mhz, limited travel, no voice and data which is the big one, and less freedom to switch handsets unlike GSM.

There are CDMA benefits, however, these are the limitations...

keep in mind that you are putting a aweful lot of time into complaining about cdma when most the gsm carriers and cdma carriers in the usa at this point could care less about either technology as there thought process is on LTE..

just over the next few years verizon will have there LTE network up and running and wi-fi will become less of a issue (still something wanted).

So really arguing the limitations on cdma is pretty old news sense your arguing it years after it came out and even more so close to the time its leaving...

Verizozn will keep there cdma network up and running but lte will definetly put it to rest over time.

[Tdubby]

Well as for Wifi verizon doesn't even offer that service so there's no point of having wifi on the phones really.. I had it with tmob cause you can save on using your minutes but verizons not going to do that because that's going to probably cause them to lose money because customers are just going to lower their plans cause they can make free calls from their wifi at home and save on minutes.. I'd like it to have trackpad but i doubt it will because it's pretty late in the production process. Especially if the rumor of them releasing in July

[noaim]

Well as for Wifi verizon doesn't even offer that service so there's no point of having wifi on the phones really.. I had it with tmob cause you can save on using your minutes but verizons not going to do that because that's going to probably cause them to lose money because customers are just going to lower their plans cause they can make free calls from their wifi at home and save on minutes.. I'd like it to have trackpad but i doubt it will because it's pretty late in the production process. Especially if the rumor of them releasing in July

"Well as for Wifi verizon doesn't even offer that service so there's no point of having wifi on the phones really.."

im unsure what you meant by this as the whole point of wi-fi is to be able to use your own service when data is not available with your connection...



There is multiple reasons to have wi-fi far beyond what you have mentioned here.

There is more business reasons to have wi-fi then I can count on all my fingers and toes.

Verizon requires data service on all of there smartphones. So including wi-fi on a phone will not hurt there business at all.

[evilbean42]

I am excited about the eventual integration of the trackpad across the bb line up, but to be honest, i think i'd rather have the last trackball berry as opposed to the first trackpad one.

trackballs are proven technology in a bb, give me the latest trackball berry to keep me occupied while others work the kinks out of the new trackpad. I'll gladly switch to a trackpad when blackberry has had a year to tinker with it and perfect it.

[noaim]

I am excited about the eventual integration of the trackpad across the bb line up, but to be honest, i think i'd rather have the last trackball berry as opposed to the first trackpad one.

trackballs are proven technology in a bb, give me the latest trackball berry to keep me occupied while others work the kinks out of the new trackpad. I'll gladly switch to a trackpad when blackberry has had a year to tinker with it and perfect it.

haha when I read this I coouldn't help but think I couldn't have said it better myself. I recently dove into a latest greatest device on day one "storm" which I like but you can tell it needs time to cook and be upgraded over time.

So I am ready for the purchase of something I feel will be very solid right off the bat (obviously not bug free) and get upgraded to a much more solid device relatively quickly.

[RicanMedic78]

keep in mind that you are putting a aweful lot of time into complaining about cdma when most the gsm carriers and cdma carriers in the usa at this point could care less about either technology as there thought process is on LTE..

just over the next few years verizon will have there LTE network up and running and wi-fi will become less of a issue (still something wanted).

So really arguing the limitations on cdma is pretty old news sense your arguing it years after it came out and even more so close to the time its leaving...

Verizozn will keep there cdma network up and running but lte will definetly put it to rest over time.

its not about complaining, its about simply bring to the discussion that CDMA has these limits. And how can you say that CDMA is at its end??? CDMA was literally just upgraded to rev A! CDMA will be around for a long long time and LTE won't see the light of day for at least another 2 to 5 years? That's enough for at least another 2 and maybe even 3 phone upgrades before it fully rolls out. CDMA by any means is not an "out the door" technology!

[RicanMedic78]

Well as for Wifi verizon doesn't even offer that service so there's no point of having wifi on the phones really.. I had it with tmob cause you can save on using your minutes but verizons not going to do that because that's going to probably cause them to lose money because customers are just going to lower their plans cause they can make free calls from their wifi at home and save on minutes.. I'd like it to have trackpad but i doubt it will because it's pretty late in the production process. Especially if the rumor of them releasing in July

i'm not sure what you meant when you started off but just in case you meant what I think you did, let me just correct: A carrier does not needto provide wifi "SERVICE" in order to include wifi in their phones. Basically, its not a service, its a chip. I'm sure u knew that but.... well, I'm posting this just in case

[RicanMedic78]

haha when I read this I coouldn't help but think I couldn't have said it better myself. I recently dove into a latest greatest device on day one "storm" which I like but you can tell it needs time to cook and be upgraded over time.

since the trackpad is not as revolutionary as with the storm's touch screen, I think the pad will work fine with minimal bugs to start! I can't see this simple upgrade having to many problems.

Then agin, I've always had trouble with laptop mouse pads and never liked them. Hope this doesnt end up the same way. Something about a solid mouse that gives you the feeling of control. I guess its the same idea as an old school trackball.

I think it'll be less of a bug issue and more of an either u like it or u dont issue...

[noaim]

its not about complaining, its about simply bring to the discussion that CDMA has these limits. And how can you say that CDMA is at its end??? CDMA was literally just upgraded to rev A! CDMA will be around for a long long time and LTE won't see the light of day for at least another 2 to 5 years? That's enough for at least another 2 and maybe even 3 phone upgrades before it fully rolls out. CDMA by any means is not an "out the door" technology!

2 years is nothing in the technology field my friend it is at its end...


and to be honest I have to say it because it seems no matter who states what you simply go against everything they say. Verizon is already well well well into the testing phase of LTE.


So as it stands I feel that its very useful to get extremely educated on what it is a person wants to argue about


you can read up a little here

CDMA Explained


"We now have cdma2000 and its variants like 1X EV, 1XEV-DO, and MC 3X. The refer to variants of usage of a 1.25Mhz channel. 3X uses a 5 Mhz channel.
Wideband CDMA that forms the basis of UMTS 3G networks, Developed originally by Qualcomm, CDMA is characterized by high capacity and small cell radius, employing spread-spectrum technology and a special coding scheme.

Developed originally by Qualcomm and enhanced by Ericsson, CDMA is characterized by high capacity and small cell radius, employing spread-spectrum technology and a special coding scheme.

CDMA was adopted by the Telecommunications Industry Association (TIA) in 1993. In September 1998, only three years after the first commercial deployment, there were 16 million subscribers on cdmaOne systems worldwide. By May 2001 there were 35 million subscribers on cdmaOne systems worldwide and there are now 60 million.
Over 35 countries have either commercial or trial activity ongoing. There are already 43 Wireless Local Loop (WLL) systems in 22 countries using cdmaOne technology.

Enhancing today's data capabilities is the 1XRTT CDMA standard - this next evolutionary step for cdmaOne operators will provide data rates up to 300 kbps, significant capacity increases as well as extended battery life for handsets.
Worldwide resources are being devoted to roll out third-generation CDMA technology, including Multi-Carrier (cdma2000 1xMC and HDR in 1.25 MHz bandwidth), and 3xMC in 5 MHz bandwidth) and Direct Spread (WCDMA in 5 MHz bandwidth).
This first phase of cdma2000 - variously called 1XRTT, 3G1X, or just plain 1X - is designed to double current voice capacity and support always-on data transmission speeds 10 times faster than typically available today, some 153.6 kbps on both the forward and reverse links. (see more on cdma2000)
QUALCOMM owns a substantial portfolio of CDMA patents, including many ``essential'' patents that are necessary for the deployment of any proposed 3G CDMA system, such as Multi-Carrier, Direct Spread, and another system referred to as TD-SCDMA.

QUALCOMM has now granted royalty bearing licenses to more than 75 manufacturers for CDMA and, as part of these licenses, has transferred technology and know-how in assisting these companies to develop and deploy CDMA products.
A significant number of these companies' licenses cover third-generation applications, including WCDMA, 1x and High Data Rate (HDR). Under terms of QUALCOMM's existing 3G licensing agreements, a licensee will pay the same royalty to QUALCOMM for 3G systems, including WCDMA, TD-SCDMA and 1x, as that licensee pays QUALCOMM for today's CDMA infrastructure, phones and test equipment.


Enhancing today's data capabilities is the 1XRTT CDMA standard - this next evolutionary step for cdmaOne operators will provide data rates up to 300 kbps, significant capacity increases as well as extended battery life for handsets.
Worldwide resources are being devoted to roll out third-generation CDMA technology, including Multi-Carrier (cdma2000 1xMC and HDR in 1.25 MHz bandwidth), and 3xMC in 5 MHz bandwidth) and Direct Spread (WCDMA in 5 MHz bandwidth). "




you will notice that it was written a while ago..


pay attention to dates..

so do I stand by the fact that cdma is on its way out YES its outdated rev a may be a more recent upgrade but that doesn't mean that its not on its way out the door..

and GSM is well over do.

This conversation has been held here umpteen times and the same responses come out everytime.

[RicanMedic78]

2 years is nothing in the technology field my friend it is at its end...


and to be honest I have to say it because it seems no matter who states what you simply go against everything they say.

please give specifics... all I have said is that LTE is years away and when we get these devices, we have to discuss "WHAT IS," not what will be..

the 9630 will never see LTE and maybe even the device after that, so LTE is mute for the purpose of the 9630 and the next few phones down the pipeline as well...

[noaim]

since the trackpad is not as revolutionary as with the storm's touch screen, I think the pad will work fine with minimal bugs to start! I can't see this simple upgrade having to many problems.

Then agin, I've always had trouble with laptop mouse pads and never liked them. Hope this doesnt end up the same way. Something about a solid mouse that gives you the feeling of control. I guess its the same idea as an old school trackball.

I think it'll be less of a bug issue and more of an either u like it or u dont issue...

I think my specifics lay somewhere in the way things are being worded .. for example in this statement of it being a "simple" upgrade.

Most every OS has been designed around having a trackball (have your programmed before do you actually realize how "simple" it is.

its very easy to just ASSUME things are easy if you arent the one creating it or making it.

I think the trackpad is a great idea and will solve many issues however being in IT and watching things like servers just come crashing down you realize that the LATEST GREATEST is most the time better to let it cook in the oven until its proven at least in a "production" environment.

reason I bought the storm. Its my personal cellphone. Its not for production. But keep in mind most of RIMS devices are for PRODUCTION.

so bringing in a low cost berry that will probably hit the consumer market first can be a great place to tackle with new advancements because you will also get word about how it works in a relatively good way.

If 50 buisnesses are calling your door telling you that you better fix it right now because were losing money thats a issue.


Some people will argue otherwise. But the truth is consumer's change there cellphones more then they change there underwear.




as for my comment on cdma

you said that cdma was not on its way out the door. Verizon is already talking about lowering costs of data for CDMA that tells me its reaching its lifecycle...

if you cant see that I can't give you anymore information that will let you see it.

I understand that you personally are very much into "debating" which is great I am as well as a matter of fact I love it. However there is some people out there that are on top of things.

I for one may not always be on top of things but I also dive deeply into what other people say because you can learn a ton by the points they make and the research they can send you to.

So yes if you have a debatable topic I will debate it if I feel I have a strong point or have looked into it enough to make the comment that I make.


whew.....


and please this isn't a attack to don't respond huffy as I am perfectly calm and mean NO offense

[RicanMedic78]

I think my specifics lay somewhere in the way things are being worded .. for example in this statement of it being a "simple" upgrade.

Most every OS has been designed around having a trackball (have your programmed before do you actually realize how "simple" it is.

its very easy to just ASSUME things are easy if you arent the one creating it or making it.

I think the trackpad is a great idea and will solve many issues however being in IT and watching things like servers just come crashing down you realize that the LATEST GREATEST is most the time better to let it cook in the oven until its proven at least in a "production" environment.

reason I bought the storm. Its my personal cellphone. Its not for production. But keep in mind most of RIMS devices are for PRODUCTION.

so bringing in a low cost berry that will probably hit the consumer market first can be a great place to tackle with new advancements because you will also get word about how it works in a relatively good way.

If 50 buisnesses are calling your door telling you that you better fix it right now because were losing money thats a issue.


Some people will argue otherwise. But the truth is consumer's change there cellphones more then they change there underwear.




as for my comment on cdma

you said that cdma was not on its way out the door. Verizon is already talking about lowering costs of data for CDMA that tells me its reaching its lifecycle...

if you cant see that I can't give you anymore information that will let you see it.

I understand that you personally are very much into "debating" which is great I am as well as a matter of fact I love it. However there is some people out there that are on top of things.

I for one may not always be on top of things but I also dive deeply into what other people say because you can learn a ton by the points they make and the research they can send you to.

So yes if you have a debatable topic I will debate it if I feel I have a strong point or have looked into it enough to make the comment that I make.


whew.....


and please this isn't a attack to don't respond huffy as I am perfectly calm and mean NO offense

no sweat...

Now, when I say "simple" upgrade, I say it because its a small feature. It doesnt change anything substancially. And while I welcome a new input/curser pad, I'm not going to jump as if this is something that will put the wireless industry on its toes! Its a good feature, but its just a curser... am I missing something here?

I remember when I bought my first Dell PC with an optical mouse. I don't remember the optical mouse being the larger upgrade for me verse the features of windows, the CPU speed, memory, screen, graphics/sound card, etc.... get my point? I'm not saying I dont want the upgrade, I'm just answering your concern about me using "simple upgrade" to describe the trackpad.

As for CDMA, lets just end that with one point. The 9630 is a brand new device with LOTS of buzz that isn't even confirmed yet, and it will be a CDMA device! I'm not sure how thats "out the door" technology. If thats the case, then u can also say that the 9630 is out the door technology as well!

I'm not saying LTE isn't on the horizon, I'm just saying, be realistic. CDMA will be with us for a while, and its better to debate what "IS" rather than "what will be," at least with respect to pipeline devices like the 9630 which will never see the LTE light of day

[noaim]

no sweat...

Now, when I say "simple" upgrade, I say it because its a small feature. It doesnt change anything substancially. And while I welcome a new input/curser pad, I'm not going to jump as if this is something that will put the wireless industry on its toes! Its a good feature, but its just a curser... am I missing something here?

I remember when I bought my first Dell PC with an optical mouse. I don't remember the optical mouse being the larger upgrade for me verse the features of windows, the CPU speed, memory, screen, graphics/sound card, etc.... get my point? I'm not saying I dont want the upgrade, I'm just answering your concern about me using "simple upgrade" to describe the trackpad.

As for CDMA, lets just end that with one point. The 9630 is a brand new device with LOTS of buzz that isn't even confirmed yet, and it will be a CDMA device! I'm not sure how thats "out the door" technology. If thats the case, then u can also say that the 9630 is out the door technology as well!

I'm not saying LTE isn't on the horizon, I'm just saying, be realistic. CDMA will be with us for a while, and its better to debate what "IS" rather than "what will be," at least with respect to pipeline devices like the 9630 which will never see the LTE light of day

I do have to say being a previous gamer who took there mousee very serious (quake 3 at the time) when optical mice came out they didn't have near the sensitivity as a ball mouse so i wouldn't touch optical.. I still feel that a trackpad is a fairly new technology on a cellphone so I kind of still feel that the software will not be up to par to run that hardware on a cellphone right off the bat.. and thats much why I believe I am happier with it being there trackball design.

As far as cdma vs gsm go's. I don't have a perfect side by side comparison as my only 3g device that I owned side by side with a cdma device was the iPhone vs the storm.


I had speed testing software from the sam company on both devices though and I tested them both in more then one location.

I never had the iPhone win with speed and it was by a long shot..

To some people data and voice at the same time is a huge plus but to me thats not really a limitation as majority of users really never use it anyway.

(I talk to plenty of people on a gsm device who didnt even realize gsm was capable of it nor did they care).


the -wi-fi argument will never stop I think most the people who I know and work with on smartphones do and most the time agree that they wish any smartphone they own has wi-fi because obviously coverage is not EVERYwhere and there is some things that cell networks simply cant do yet.


I guess my way out the door is a simplistic view point. Yes I think is out the door.

All products and services in the IT field have a life cycle.

Think of a glass of water its full then you drink it then its half full or half gone (whichever way you prefer) but when there it is on its 3rd left and maybe even at half left you start thinking about a refill.

with cdma its about a 3rd left therefor more twards the end of its lifecycle.

and my comment of GSM being overdo I believe is very true GSM even with data+voice is a outdated technology. which is why at&t looks to be decided upon LTE.

and also why verizon recently anounced that the CMDA REV A data would be discounted and still offered to customers with the availability of LTE..

with the way users are a great majority will jump on LTE as soon as they can so cdma is definetly on its way out the door.

Truth is most people typing right here could buy a tour today and if a LTE blackberry came out in 6 months they would consider or definetly purchase the lte blackberry the day it came out.

SO if you wish to say that the tour is outdated technology most hardware is outdated before it hits the store shelf

[RicanMedic78]

and my comment of GSM being overdo I believe is very true GSM even with data+voice is a outdated technology. which is why at&t looks to be decided upon LTE.

Yea but with that logic, its more verizon that wants to run from CDMA straight into LTE rather than AT&T.

with the way users are a great majority will jump on LTE as soon as they can so cdma is definetly on its way out the door.

If you want to say its out the door, thats fine in its proper context. However, for the purpose of the 9630, its very much "in the door!" Can we agree on that?

Also I want to add, rev A just came out! Lets not forget, the storm just make out at the end of this year and is the first berry on rev A. Lets let rev A walk a little before we call it old tech

Truth is most people typing right here could buy a tour today and if a LTE blackberry came out in 6 months they would consider or definetly purchase the lte blackberry the day it came out.

Yea but ppl here are the minority. And frankly, even though I'm always tempted, I'm a little bit more of a reserved shopper. I won't just dish out $599 for a device because when I got the discounted one before, I didn't make sure I'd be happy with it for its 1 to 2 year life span. But hey, thats me

SO if you wish to say that the tour is outdated technology most hardware is outdated before it hits the store shelf

True, but thats like saying the train is updated, but the track is just about ready for demolition. So for the life of the 9630, again, CDMA is very much in play

[paramedicman]

Balls or not....I want one !

[s2by10]

Even though I like the idea, I don't think they'll change it now. Plus if the 8520 becomes a flop they'll know not to use it. Think of Sure Press.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[westy79]

Rican and noaim:

I don't care if i'm new to POSTING (i been READING these boards for a while...)

.....but why must you two turn this into an argument about cell technology?? I thought this thread was about trackballs and trackpads!!??

don't care if I **** anyone off, I would just rather read about ppl's opinions on trackballs/pads when I click on a topic labeled as such.... take it to PM's.....

...my two cents.

[jayhammy]

I don't think they're going to put something new on the flagship device like that. THey'll try it out on a "lesser" device to see how it does. I don't think they want to repeat the "Storm" mistakes on a new flagship model.

[noaim]

Rican and noaim:

I don't care if i'm new to POSTING (i been READING these boards for a while...)

.....but why must you two turn this into an argument about cell technology?? I thought this thread was about trackballs and trackpads!!??

don't care if I **** anyone off, I would just rather read about ppl's opinions on trackballs/pads when I click on a topic labeled as such.... take it to PM's.....

...my two cents.

I understand it did get off topic I think it started more or less with the conversation about reguardless of a trackpad not being a "huge" part of hardware its not necessarily "simple" technology to add to there current software.

DO I think that a trackpad is a bad idea. HECK NO... I think that over time it will solve MANY complaints about current blackberry's and the trackball situation. However the trackpad does come with some irritations as well. Sometimes moisture on your fingers can cause problems "this is at least with iterations that I have used" but honestly speaking I think the benefits in this respect far outweigh the negatives of a dirty trackball


however trackballs are still very good but I don't know how you would fix there main problem without this.

[noaim]

If you want to say its out the door, thats fine in its proper context. However, for the purpose of the 9630, its very much "in the door!" Can we agree on that?

Also I want to add, rev A just came out! Lets not forget, the storm just make out at the end of this year and is the first berry on rev A. Lets let rev A walk a little before we call it old tech

yes and

as far as rev A the limitations spoken of in previous posts were the same limitations that were in CDMA before revA

but I think we got a little of topic for the thread