[rootbeersoup]

But like I and a lot of other people mentioned, VZW forces you to buy a data plan. So VZW has no incentive to leave it out

[stuaw11]

well i pointed out other reasons including reaching a price point they wanted to sell it for to compete with the iphone. No matter what the reason its pretty obvious they asked for it to be left out since its feasible to have a Storm with WIFI just fine.

[briankeith513]

First of all, try googling Storm 9520 (rogers) and then try calling me ignorant again. Storm+ WIFI hmmmmmmmmm care to rethink your theory its RIM? Obviously the Storm is capable of holding a WIFI radio.

in fact let me link you
Storm 9520 And 3G Pearl 8200 Flip Heading To Rogers! | CrackBerry.com
"9520 Storm which will soon be available on Rogers in Canada. This device will have 3G HSPA bands for North America and comes with WiFi built into it. "

Again, I said I dont know why WM phones have wifi and others do not. I never claimed to know, merely presented a hypothetical. BUT as i just proved, there is a WIFI Storm, and OBVIOUSLY theres some reason VZW doesnt have that in theirs, but it isnt RIM to blame because its physically possible.

And youre comparing a BRAND new Storm model to a 1.5 year old Curve on other CDMA carriers. Not exactly a relevant comparison to generalize CDMA.

Also, dont think the mods appreciate you calling people ignorant acting like a **** to other members. Try doing some research before calling people out on incorrect and irrelevant "facts."

Ok, Stua,

I should not have called you ignorant, you are just misinformed, as anyone can be. The "Storm" that you speak of is not the same model number, (9530), as the the VZW Storm. It is the 9520. This is the point that I was making several times, that you ignore. See, there are too many of examples that make my point very clear. The original curve, and the second Curve to come out from RIM, only had GSM radios in it. The second Curve, 8310 also included a gps in it, but no wifi( did every GSM carrier ask for this specifically from RIM? Because this is how it was for every GSM carrier).

Next, the Pearl. There was the 8100, 8110, 8120, and 8130. The first 3 being GSM, and the 8120 has wifi for all GSM carriers, whereas the 8110 had gps instead of wifi. Again, did all GSM carriers ask RIM to not put both gps and wifi in the pearl? Now the 8800 series.....the 8820 had wifi, no gps, for al GSM carriers. Again, did all GSM carriers ask for RIM to not include GPS and wifi in the 8820?

For CDMA blackberries, there was the Curve, 8330, Pearl 8130, and 8830. 3 blackberries that GSM carriers have, but with a different model number and different radio. All had gps, but none with wifi...again, this is the case, with ALL CDMA berries.

The 9520 Storm, is NOT a CDMA phone, so it follows the example that I made above. It has a GSM radio in it, and to this date, there is NO CDMA blackberry with wifi in it. This is not isolated to Verizon!

I cannot understand why you do not look at these facts and comprehend this.

Then the marketing and sales comment. Verizon would not make anymore or any less money by asking RIM to exclude wifi, because a data plan is required anyway. Then the point that Verizon offers wifi on other smartphones.

You keep making assumptions that Verizon asked for it to be removed, with no basis. And you ignore the facts that I presented several times above.

Is there not anyone else who understands this and can help this guy out?

I'm gonna leave this alone, because at this point, this is getting ridiculous.

When you show me a CDMA blackberry with wifi, and then Verizon comes out with the same model number without wifi, then you will have a point, until then, next.

[briankeith513]

well i pointed out other reasons including reaching a price point they wanted to sell it for to compete with the iphone. No matter what the reason its pretty obvious they asked for it to be left out since its feasible to have a Storm with WIFI just fine.

It's feasible to have a 9530 Storm with Wifi, or a 9520 with wifi? Hey, it was feasible to have a Curve with wifi(8320), and a pearl with wifi(8120), and the 8820 with wifi. Do you notice the obvious? All have a GSM radio, and every GSM carrier with the above phones had wifi, but NO gps.

If it was feasible to have a CDMA Curve, Pearl, and 8800-series device with wifi, why did none of the CDMA carries have wifi?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

It's feasible to have a 9530 Storm with Wifi, or a 9520 with wifi? Hey, it was feasible to have a Curve with wifi(8320), and a pearl with wifi(8120), and the 8820 with wifi. Do you notice the obvious? All have a GSM radio, and every GSM carrier with the above phones had wifi, but NO gps.

If it was feasible to have a CDMA Curve, Pearl, and 8800-series device with wifi, why did none of the CDMA carries have wifi?

That doe not matter. There is now a new generation of devices, and it's out with the old. Hence the Bold & 8900. Wifi & GPS. The carrier has a huge say in what features are added or left off the device. But the lack of Wifi is NOT a RIM limitation.

[matrix2004]

So is there a 9030 and a 9630 coming to Verizon?

[briankeith513]

That doe not matter. There is now a new generation of devices, and it's out with the old. Hence the Bold & 8900. Wifi & GPS. The carrier has a huge say in what features are added or left off the device. But the lack of Wifi is NOT a RIM limitation.

The 2 devices that you mention are GSM, just as I mentioned before, and that was my point. Show me a new CDMA blackberry with wifi, that is not from Verizon. Actually is does matter, because people said Verizon was limiting this before, when no other CDMA carrier had a wifi blackberry, yet they had wifi in winmo smartphones. We will see, but the only way to say that this is something that Verizon wanted, is to hear it from verizon, or have Verizon come out with a new blackberry model, and NOT include wifi, and yet have other CDMA carriers with the same model number and INCLUDE wifi. Until that happens, the evidence has been clear.

And CX, I'm not trying to be funny here, but tell me this, if the lack of wifi is NOT a RIM limitation, then why has there never been a CDMA blackberry with wifi from any carrier, not just Verizon? If Verizon didn't want wifi, why do they allow it on their other smartphones? I've mentioned these obvious points on this forum many times. So, I ask you because you are definitely more knowledgable than most.

[OCD SS]

My situation is that my job issued me an 8830 and completely pays for it, but imported my own cell phone number (which is also my only phone) into the corporate account.

My big issue with the 8830 is the lack of a camera. I work for a fine art services company and being able to take pictures of things is fairly important, but I've also come to realize that very few of the older members of the company (who've had their BB's for awhile) are getting the most out of them. I think this might have a lot to do with the office locations as since I'm in NYC I spend a lot of time on trains and can use my BB to get work done in transit, while everyone else in other offices are driving.

But the Company owner likes the world phone aspect. So if I'm going to get the company to buy me a new BB (despite the fact that they just gave me one less than a year ago) I need it to fit 3 specs:

• On VZW (which has the company wireless account)
• A camera (something I need for my job)
• A world phone (to get the owner of the company interested)

This phone should do that, and I'm ecstatic. ****, even the delay until May isn't too bad since it will probably take that long for me to badger a few different people in the company into taking this on as a worthwhile business expense.

The only other option might be to have the company owner decide on iPhones for everone (if the iPhone comes to VZW this would gain a lot of weight)...

[pkcable]

Until the 9630 comes out your option would be the storm.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[arukaen]

it looks liek curve2/bold had a baby.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

The 2 devices that you mention are GSM, just as I mentioned before, and that was my point. Show me a new CDMA blackberry with wifi, that is not from Verizon. Actually is does matter, because people said Verizon was limiting this before, when no other CDMA carrier had a wifi blackberry, yet they had wifi in winmo smartphones. We will see, but the only way to say that this is something that Verizon wanted, is to hear it from verizon, or have Verizon come out with a new blackberry model, and NOT include wifi, and yet have other CDMA carriers with the same model number and INCLUDE wifi. Until that happens, the evidence has been clear.

And CX, I'm not trying to be funny here, but tell me this, if the lack of wifi is NOT a RIM limitation, then why has there never been a CDMA blackberry with wifi from any carrier, not just Verizon? If Verizon didn't want wifi, why do they allow it on their other smartphones? I've mentioned these obvious points on this forum many times. So, I ask you because you are definitely more knowledgable than most.

BlackBerry has nothing to do with Winmo or any other brand device. Plain and simple. I will tell you right now that the Niagara has Wifi. And works just fine. Now if it doesn't go to market with it, that's on Sprint and Verizon. It is not a limitation by the manufacturer. But you believe what ever makes you feel better. I can only say it so many times.

[OCD SS]

Until the 9630 comes out your option would be the storm.

Well, except that every time I've tried one I've hated it. Also, after considering how I use what I've got, I also really like being able to use it one handed.

[Primate#CB]

No WIFi is not a deal breaker for me. I have WIFI on my WINMO saga (not my fault CO went winmo and sent it to me) and I never ever use it. But I do not have any dead spots in my day to day life.

For some of you there are dead spots usually at work or somewhere in your home so for you it may very well be a deal breaker.

I made the argument when we had the storm wifi discussions and being hard headed I missed some vary valid points. Now that I look back at it the stom and the niagra are billed as "WORLD" phones. This would suggest it is ideal for a business travel who would spend a lot of times in an airport. Airports often = free wifi so this should be a kit feature.

Show me a new CDMA blackberry with wifi, that is not from Verizon.

I could be wrong here since I am just guessing but, I do not think that RIM would make HW specific to every carrier. In the US VZW is the largest CDMA so they would dictate the CDMA HW and ATT is the largest GSM so they would dictate the GSM HW. If I am correct then you would not see different HW on the same device from VZW and Sprint or ATT and TMOBILE. Again I could be completely wrong this is just a guess. Reguardless I do find it odd that GSM has WIFI and CDMA does not when it comes to RIM. Is there a limitation here that I, and other, are unaware of?

[briankeith513]

BlackBerry has nothing to do with Winmo or any other brand device. Plain and simple. I will tell you right now that the Niagara has Wifi. And works just fine. Now if it doesn't go to market with it, that's on Sprint and Verizon. It is not a limitation by the manufacturer. But you believe what ever makes you feel better. I can only say it so many times.

CX, I appreciate all of your insight. I'm not believing what ever makes me feel better, I am just believing the factual evidence, based on what has already been known to be true, no CDMA blackberry for any carrier has ever offered wifi, and from what you are saying, VZW, Sprint, Alltel, and Telus had the same idea....to not offer wifi on any of their cdma blackberries, but to offer it on their other smartphones. If it comes to market, and no CDMA carrier that has it offers the same model with wifi, then I doubt it was because every CDMA carrier decided to not offer wifi on it. Sprint is not as restrictive as Verizon, and they didn't have it on their other blackberries either, neither did Alltel or Telus. So, I hear what you say about the Niagara currently having wifi. So, we will see what happens when Verizon as well as the other CDMA carriers offer the same model.

[briankeith513]

I could be wrong here since I am just guessing but, I do not think that RIM would make HW specific to every carrier. In the US VZW is the largest CDMA so they would dictate the CDMA HW and ATT is the largest GSM so they would dictate the GSM HW. If I am correct then you would not see different HW on the same device from VZW and Sprint or ATT and TMOBILE. Again I could be completely wrong this is just a guess. Reguardless I do find it odd that GSM has WIFI and CDMA does not when it comes to RIM. Is there a limitation here that I, and other, are unaware of?

Ok, so Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, and Telus, all wanted wifi, but because VZW said no, there was no blackberry(Curve, 8800 series, or Pearl) with wifi, because 1 out of 5 carriers said "no"? LMAO. Let me ask you this....do you think VZW has a vendetta against RIM, and that's why VZW said, "no RIM, we don't like wifi"? Then behind RIM's back, VZW says to Samsung and HTC, "we actually like wifi, put it in our phones"?

As far as a limitation....there was a limitation according to 2 RIM reps telling me that with, GSM, they weren't previously able to put gps, wifi, and 3G all in one phone. The Bold is only the first to do so, and that was a RIM limitation, told to me from to RIM reps. It would appear that, a similar limitation is or was with CDMA berries, no wifi and 3G in the same phone, maybe that will change, as it has with GSM and the Bold.

[Dragon_Rider]

Seeing as Verizon requires the data plan; why is wifi so important?

Just an honest question

WiFi will work inside buildings without a cell signal.

[Xopher]

one of the things I look at is the fact that WiFi had not really taken off as a phone feature until the iPhone2 came out last year. Sure, other phones had WiFi, but it wasn't a huge benefit (especially with some of the mobile browsers out there).

Sure, the iPhone had WiFi, and probably the first real good web browser on a mobile device. I think those devices spawned an entirely new market, and that is something that is driving things a little more now.

A couple of years ago, the big deal was GPS. So, in terms of the CDMA world, RIM probably asked which radios were important to the carriers and they felt GPS was more important (after all, the Bold was the first to offer GPS and WiFi). It makes sence that the 8830, 8330 and 8230 all have GPS.

Now that 3G and internet browsing are the new buzz-words, I wouldn't put it past RIM and CMDA carriers to start offering WiFi in the CDMA world. If features like UMA, or using voice and data at the same time start to jump ahead, then the CDMA carriers will need to have devices to compete.

If the 9630 has WiFi as CX states (which I believe), then all the better for the CDMA carriers. If it doesn't, then so be it. With how quickly different BB devices have come to market over the past year, there will be another device to answer the call in the near future. Personally, I am looking forward to the Niagara, WiFi or not.

[briankeith513]

A couple of years ago, the big deal was GPS. So, in terms of the CDMA world, RIM probably asked which radios were important to the carriers and they felt GPS was more important (after all, the Bold was the first to offer GPS and WiFi). It makes sence that the 8830, 8330 and 8230 all have GPS.

I'd agree with this, if the CDMA carriers didn't already offer wifi in non-blackberry smartphones. I'm trying to understand why a CDMA carrier would choose to have it in a winmo device, but not a blackberry device? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Primate#CB]

Ok, so Sprint, Alltel, US Cellular, and Telus, all wanted wifi, but because VZW said no, there was no blackberry(Curve, 8800 series, or Pearl) with wifi, because 1 out of 5 carriers said "no"? LMAO. Let me ask you this....do you think VZW has a vendetta against RIM, and that's why VZW said, "no RIM, we don't like wifi"? Then behind RIM's back, VZW says to Samsung and HTC, "we actually like wifi, put it in our phones"?

As far as a limitation....there was a limitation according to 2 RIM reps telling me that with, GSM, they weren't previously able to put gps, wifi, and 3G all in one phone. The Bold is only the first to do so, and that was a RIM limitation, told to me from to RIM reps. It would appear that, a similar limitation is or was with CDMA berries, no wifi and 3G in the same phone, maybe that will change, as it has with GSM and the Bold.

Well since I know how big you are on people READING the entire post I will assume you read everything and just misunderstood what I was saying.

First it was just a guess. As I stated a couple times, I could be wrong. Second and more importantly I asked if there was a limitation for CDMA\RIM and wifi. I guess I could be like you and assume I know everything but I prefer to ask fo input from others that know more than me. If you are relying on reps for your facts then I understand everything

[Dragon_Rider]

Hmm I wasn't aware of this, thanks. I guess it would only really matter if you were at a hotspot that's not your home or office. Otherwise, you'd have your computer right there if you needed to look up something

but still, I guess I see the point

Many people are not stagnant in their offices. Some people acually get up and have responcibilities deep into a building that is wireless.

[avt123]

Now that 3G and internet browsing are the new buzz-words, I wouldn't put it past RIM and CMDA carriers to start offering WiFi in the CDMA world. If features like UMA, or using voice and data at the same time start to jump ahead, then the CDMA carriers will need to have devices to compete.

Verizon will never offer UMA. I can't see Verizon letting their customers save any more money. Also, HSPA is the only technology currently available to offer simultaneous voice and data. Just having WiFi won't compete, but it will compete with ATT phones that do have both GPS and WiFi (even though some Verizon phones do have WiFi, just not BlackBerries). Tmobile is the only US carrier to offer UMA calling I believe.

[briankeith513]

Well since I know how big you are on people READING the entire post I will assume you read everything and just misunderstood what I was saying.

First it was just a guess. As I stated a couple times, I could be wrong. Second and more importantly I asked if there was a limitation for CDMA\RIM and wifi. I guess I could be like you and assume I know everything but I prefer to ask fo input from others that know more than me. If you are relying on reps for your facts then I understand everything

You are correct, I was just making a statement, and the example I gave about GSM was just an example to show RIM limitations. And by the way, the RIM reps that I spoke with weren't just regular reps.

[stuaw11]

As far as a limitation....there was a limitation according to 2 RIM reps telling me that with, GSM, they weren't previously able to put gps, wifi, and 3G all in one phone. The Bold is only the first to do so, and that was a RIM limitation, told to me from to RIM reps. It would appear that, a similar limitation is or was with CDMA berries, no wifi and 3G in the same phone, maybe that will change, as it has with GSM and the Bold.

Well i think those reps are spitting hogwash. For example, the Curve uses Intel Xscale in their GSM models and Qualcomm in the CDMA. Both chipsets are capable, as you pointed out and are used in Winmo devices which have both, of using both 3g and wifi. The chipsets are each capable of both functions on board.

RIM's OS is obviously capable of handling 3g on one set and wifi on the other set- same OS. Logic would dictate that obviously the phones could in fact handle both in the OS since the same OS powers both one with 3g and one with wifi. 3g is just a radio, and nothing to do with the OS. therefore if the OS can handle wifi, you could slap a 3g radio chip in there and have both.

Its hard to say that would the GSM curve have had 3g plus the wifi, because back when the GSM curve came out (way before the cdma) their was no tmobile 3g, and very little att 3g if any.

The reason why they didnt put it in their conclusively was neither a technological limitation nor an OS limitation.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

You are correct, I was just making a statement, and the example I gave about GSM was just an example to show RIM limitations. And by the way, the RIM reps that I spoke with weren't just regular reps.

Reps shemps. They rarely know much. You keep believing it's a limitation all you want. But I'm telling you it is not.

[sprke81]

That doe not matter. There is now a new generation of devices, and it's out with the old. Hence the Bold & 8900. Wifi & GPS. The carrier has a huge say in what features are added or left off the device. But the lack of Wifi is NOT a RIM limitation.

To those that are still wondering about cdma blackberry's not having wifi in the past, maybe there was a limitation with old blackberry's having wifi, but as CX pointed out, its out with old and in with the new. This 2009 already and they are getting better and better with cramming several radio's with into a small package. Another point to consider is cdma carriers have historically been ahead on data coverage/speeds so there wasn't a need so much for wifi as gsm, but now consumers are seeing what an advantage wifi is ( in some cases) and even tho vzw or sprint have a good 3g network people are requesting wifi more and more. So they have started including on some recent phones like has been pointed out. I personally think that for cdma carriers to include wifi is advantage for them because they still require you to have a data plan but when you have big business's, malls, coffee shops, airports etc.. all these phones are taken off the cellular network and relieving potential congestion but everybody is still paying for a data package, so its a win win situation for the carrier.