09-28-10 02:18 AM
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  1. ennx's Avatar
    Well the lineup is for the best smartphone out there. The Torch should be the best smartphone out there, but it isn't for many of the reasons I listed above. Instead of being the trend setter, it's a Blackberry aimed at the core constituency, with an improved but not good enough browser, an inadequate processor, and a three year old approach to a display. That doesn't mean I don't like it. It is the best BB ever, but in today's world, that isn't good enough. It had to be more. I like it in a Blackberry context. I owned it, I used it, and I'll probably get another one. That's because I like Blackberry, and why not opt for the large screen? However, matched with a Galaxy S, a Desire or an iPhone 4, it isn't in the game. RIM needs a quick second act, if they are to remain relevant to the consumer market. I hope you are all not disappointed, especially after this delay in shipment. By the way, it's not just the iPhone 4 that people have their tongues hanging out for. Try to buy a Desire at a Telus Store. They haven't had stock in two weeks.
    09-26-10 12:05 AM
  2. The Legendary's Avatar
    I can answer the better screen resolution question by telling you to go look under battery on the engadget review. Even engadget who are the biggest apple fanboys out there admit that like all blackberrys it has an amazing battery life. I will admit the screen on the captivate and iphone are amazing, but thats only useful if the phones battery can make it through the day. Whats the point of having such an amazing screen when it spends most of the off because your battery is dead.
    09-27-10 08:14 AM
  3. canusaybimmy's Avatar
    I can answer the better screen resolution question by telling you to go look under battery on the engadget review. Even engadget who are the biggest apple fanboys out there admit that like all blackberrys it has an amazing battery life. I will admit the screen on the captivate and iphone are amazing, but thats only useful if the phones battery can make it through the day. Whats the point of having such an amazing screen when it spends most of the off because your battery is dead.
    Don't think enough people realize this.
    09-27-10 08:18 AM
  4. Mikey52's Avatar
    There's no investor-positive way to announce a delay. To announce that the initial OS release on AT&T was too buggy, and that they found a couple other serious bugs that they should fix prior to the release of the device in another market (and there are other markets besides Canada on deck in the next few days) so they may have just wanted to make sure that all the devices that will be shipping in the next few days will have a couple of serious / important fixes in.

    I wouldn't expect them to say that publicly, and frankly any "minor" statement as to the delay would just be marketing spin (as opposed to "the OS is a TERRIBLE MESS so we patched it hastily" they would say "we encountered minor incompatibilities in very rare situations that we felt would be best to patch proactively" blah blah blah. Can you tell I work in marketing?)

    The point I'm making as a direct response to the OP is that the reason why there isn't an official statement for the delay is that there is very rarely EVER a "positive" reason for a delay, that will make customers and investors go "I wanted them to hold off for another week, myself....", so to anyone who wants to speculate on the worst-possible-scenario, go ahead, but in the end, there's a delay, and unless there's a statement from RIM that could make you think "Oh.. that's all... whew! I'll buy it, then.", just assume that's what they said, because that's what they would say.

    p.s. I don't mean to say that I believe the OS *is* a terrible mess hastily patched, etc. I'm just saying that when a company slips a launch date, there's a damn good reason, weighed against NOT slipping the date... and maybe they don't want to state it publicly. MAYBE it's part of the agreement with UAE and India regarding the encryption? God, who wants them opening up THAT can of doody. I worked at a software company where we found a DATA DESTROYING BUG in a file management process after the production CD run was pressed, the boxes packed, ready to go to retailers... they wrestled with the idea of putting a bright red "WARNING: DOWNLOAD PATCH" sticker on the jewel cases, but in the end, they scrapped all the CDs, fixed the bug, redid the disc duplication, repacked the boxes and shipped 2 weeks later. That was when software on store shelves in retailers was the bulk of software sales, and this was just before Christmas... and getting product to retailers in a timely manner is a huge issue... but they couldn't just go with this toxic software in the end... being the person who found the bug made me very popular :-|
    You make great points here. There is no positive way to announce a delay. But I don't think silence is the answer or responsible approach either.
    09-27-10 08:23 AM
  5. knowledge_6's Avatar
    I can answer the better screen resolution question by telling you to go look under battery on the engadget review. Even engadget who are the biggest apple fanboys out there admit that like all blackberrys it has an amazing battery life. I will admit the screen on the captivate and iphone are amazing, but thats only useful if the phones battery can make it through the day. Whats the point of having such an amazing screen when it spends most of the off because your battery is dead.
    i agree 100%.. the screens are amazing! but it's funny when you see someone with an ip4 and say "hey can i play around with that?"

    and you get the answer "sorry it's low on battery and i need it last me the whole day"

    "but it's only 2pm" haha..
    09-27-10 08:26 AM
  6. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    The majority of the people out there are more concerned about on paper specs and "coolness" over things like battery life, rf, and functionality. They're far more willing to compromise on the latter, as long as they get the former.

    I may sound like many others here, but my smartphone is a phone and messaging device first. I think the Blackberry is best at that. The games, media and apps aspect is lacking (but are secondary in my list of needs), and that's why I have a iPod touch 4g in my pocket as well just for those purposes.
    09-27-10 08:40 AM
  7. Rickroller's Avatar
    Look at the iPhone. It was launched in Canada at the end of July. Try to find one at a carrier store. I was at a major Apple Store yesterday, and they don't have any. How ridiculous is that? The only place I know of where you are sure of getting an iPhone 4 today is at the Pacific Mall and not at a carrier store. I bought one there yesterday. No carrier had one, the Apple Store didn't have them.
    If you asked all those people waiting in line why they wanted an iPhone, i'll bet you over 80% would either say "Because it's cool" or "Because it's awesome". I'd be willing to wager hardly any of them are interested in specs or how it is on paper. I don't get why so many people like the phone, my wife has one and when i use it i want to smash it into the wall. Trying to customize it, or rearrange icons, or create folders to clean it up makes me want to literally punch it. I'm sure there are apps available to do all that, or there might be built in ways. I've never taken the time to sit down and read all about it, because frankly i don't care. If i click on an icon, and can't even push a button to access the properties of that, then to me that's junk.

    The whole reason the iPhone is as popular as it is..is because it's "simple". One button on it, and the whole swipe to access your other apps on other screens. To most people that's "cool"..but to me personally it's an ineffective waste of time (not to mention most people are as tech savy as a bag of donuts..pushing one button is about as much as they can figure out). If you like the phone and it works for you, then great. But you literally could not PAY me to use the phone on a daily basis, no matter how good the "specs" are.
    Last edited by Rickroller; 09-27-10 at 09:04 AM.
    09-27-10 08:59 AM
  8. lorax1284's Avatar
    There is no positive way to announce a delay. But I don't think silence is the answer or responsible approach either.
    If we're talking just in terms of corporate responsibility, there are a few things to consider. A single week delay isn't a huge deal. It's worse for the carriers than it is for the consumer, so if anything, RIM is having to do a lot of damage control with the CARRIERS (which will be said behind closed doors, not publicly). For example the fact that the promotional $30 / 6GB data plan was set to expire on most carriers on September 30th means that they will either **** off the stragglers (buy a Torch on October 3rd, and are denied the $30/6 plan that expired just 3 days earlier?), or have to extend the promotion for a week or so at least, etc., which is a logistical problem for the carriers.

    Apple slipping release date of iPad in nonUS markets because the launch in US was beyond expectations was a GOOD delay announcement: their investors were peeing their pants with joy when their highest expectations were surpassed. When Apple announced the delay of the white iPhone 4, well, we still don't have one, do we? But we have the black one and it's not a huge deal, but it does make their engineering team look a bit sloppy (two issues with one device launch? ouch.)

    If you asked all those people waiting in line why they wanted an iPhone, i'll bet you over 80% would either say "Because it's cool" or "Because it's awesome".
    I have to agree with you. I like to think I'm aware of my motivations, even if I can't control my responses... I'm contract-phobic, so the idea of buying a $800 device ONLY for an increased resolution screen, the extra camera, and slightly-faster processor, but without it also getting 64 GB or 128 GB of onboard memory is, rationally speaking, not good value.

    So, I picked up an iPhone 3GS brand new for $400, and, from my perspective (44 year old with 44 year-old retina, wears glasses) the screen on the 3GS *is* a retina display. So I'm just missing the spare camera... but don't have any interest in WiFi video chat on that device... so I guess the 3GS just lacks the extra powered processor... which won't really affect me, because I'm not playing 3D games on my iPhone, and without the 960 x 640 display, the processor is 'overpowered' for most smart-phone apps.

    I think if most of the people who lined up for the iPhone 4 thought about it rationally, they'd come to similar conclusions... so I think it's fair to say that Apple is the MOST successful company at engaging customer's emotions. Look at the way they announce products. They have a good thing going, so they've basically rolled out EVERY product in the EXACT SAME WAY. Big show in SF at Moscone or something, invite the press, partners do some demos etc.. They've got it down to a science.

    I find the communications features of the iPhone (lack of the physical keyboard being the prime factor) to be far inferior to the BlackBerry. But it's a fun toy and to have the Cellular connectivity makes it slightly superior to a WiFi-only iPod Touch... I'll first try tethering the iPhone 3GS to the Torch via Bluetooth, and if I can get full internet services on the iPhone even without a SIM card in the device, then I just might ditch the iPhone 3GS and get an iPod Touch 4.
    Last edited by lorax1284; 09-27-10 at 09:48 AM.
    09-27-10 09:43 AM
  9. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I can answer the better screen resolution question by telling you to go look under battery on the engadget review. Even engadget who are the biggest apple fanboys out there admit that like all blackberrys it has an amazing battery life. I will admit the screen on the captivate and iphone are amazing, but thats only useful if the phones battery can make it through the day. Whats the point of having such an amazing screen when it spends most of the off because your battery is dead.
    the Jobsian cult followers and the robots will immediately tell you that since they are always near a power outlet the battery life is not important.....
    09-27-10 10:01 AM
  10. rhassan's Avatar
    If you asked all those people waiting in line why they wanted an iPhone, i'll bet you over 80% would either say "Because it's cool" or "Because it's awesome". I'd be willing to wager hardly any of them are interested in specs or how it is on paper. I don't get why so many people like the phone, my wife has one and when i use it i want to smash it into the wall. Trying to customize it, or rearrange icons, or create folders to clean it up makes me want to literally punch it. I'm sure there are apps available to do all that, or there might be built in ways. I've never taken the time to sit down and read all about it, because frankly i don't care. If i click on an icon, and can't even push a button to access the properties of that, then to me that's junk.

    The whole reason the iPhone is as popular as it is..is because it's "simple". One button on it, and the whole swipe to access your other apps on other screens. To most people that's "cool"..but to me personally it's an ineffective waste of time (not to mention most people are as tech savy as a bag of donuts..pushing one button is about as much as they can figure out). If you like the phone and it works for you, then great. But you literally could not PAY me to use the phone on a daily basis, no matter how good the "specs" are.
    Damn! You said EXACTLY what I wanted to say about I-Phone but my words never came out right. VERY well said man! My wife has one I-Phone as well and never again. She is not very tech savvy but even she played with a BB Curve and liked it MUCH better than the I-phone 3G
    09-27-10 12:32 PM
  11. The Legendary's Avatar
    the Jobsian cult followers and the robots will immediately tell you that since they are always near a power outlet the battery life is not important.....
    And thats why he could never take over the enterprise market, and I'm not saying he is not a genius at marketing he is, but he is not working for the consumer. He works for his profit margins, so if he can force you to have them replace the battery so he can make another hundred+ on you, then he will, and the sooner the fanboys realize that they will finally admit that all those iFart apps are really annoying and not worth their money.
    09-27-10 02:26 PM
  12. ennx's Avatar
    I was at the Telus Store at Yorkdale in Toronto today. The manager says Friday, maybe. He also said they may only sell to activations and not to people who want to just buy the phone outright. I told him I'd buy a Rogers version and unlock it if they did that.
    09-28-10 12:20 AM
  13. ek9max's Avatar
    I don't get why so many people like the phone, my wife has one and when i use it i want to smash it into the wall. Trying to customize it, or rearrange icons, or create folders to clean it up makes me want to literally punch it. I'm sure there are apps available to do all that, or there might be built in ways. I've never taken the time to sit down and read all about it, because frankly i don't care. If i click on an icon, and can't even push a button to access the properties of that, then to me that's junk.
    Poetry..... My thoughts exactly.
    09-28-10 01:32 AM
  14. Shadoewarrior's Avatar
    Hi,
    we are having the same problem here in Germany.
    Delivery date is Today with some internet shops.
    Amazon Germany has had it online since the 3rd of September.
    I Pre-Ordered right away.
    Still no delivery and no time frame when I might get it.

    WTF!

    RIM if your reading this - Release the DAMN PHONE!

    Your losing Customers in Europe! Alot of BB Users in a couple forums have changed over to the Apple Crap! (Delivery was faster, internet is faster and so on).

    Stop playing Games with us and listen to your customers.

    Tim
    09-28-10 02:18 AM
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