[Fr3lncr]

I've had the Torch for just under 24 hours. With all the trouble I went to get the thing, I admit my initial impressions were a bit of a let down.

Observations:

1) Wiggle. Didn't notice it right out of the box, but I do have some. Example: with the screen closed and hitting the bottom buttons, there is some screen movement. Hard to determine how much but probably a few millimeters. Same with the screen open (little bit of wiggle). If I keep the Torch, I'll likely return it for another one since it bugs me as it doesn't feel as good as a product as the Bold 9700.

2) Screen: Like. Like-a-lot. Resolution is fine for me. For something that is the same resolution as the Bold 9700 (it is isn't it?), I find everything really sharp. Much better than an iPod touch (pre-retina display of course).

3) Touchscreen element: Good but admittedly not as good as an iPod touch. Moving around a screen it is fine and is great for browsing, but it isn't as good for selecting links as the iPod touch or iPhone, which I guess is why we have the trackpad.

3) Trackpad: Plus and minus. Plus: I like the fact that there is a trackpad. It gives you that full fine control you just can't get on an iPhone or iPod. On the minus, due to the limitations of the touchscreen, you pretty much should use it all the time for selecting links rather than just those times where the text is a bit too small and you don't want to select the wrong thing.

I also find that the location of the trackpad isn't as good ergonomically as it could be. Due to the sloping nature of the bottom bezel, the trackpad really is at the bottom of the screen and I think my thumb would prefer it higher for balance(?) purposes. I think in a v2 of the Torch, they should allocate a bit more space to the bottom controls.

4) USB port: Never really understood the complaints online until you use it. Since I was trying it out while it was charging (as it just popped the battery in), the location of the micro-USB port really does suck. They should have moved it higher so it wouldn't affect using the keyboard while plugged in. Though I guess once it is charged you wont notice it.

5) One convenience key: Yeah, why did they do that? Probably will be back in the next version.

6) Keyboard (the real one): Like it a lot. Really easy to type on though admittedly the tops keys have given me a few problems due to the screen but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

7) Keyboard (the fake one): Yeah, not as good as an iPod. Will get the job done but the real keyboard is SOOO much easier to type on. And one real thing that bothers me, getting rid of the keyboard once you select it. It seems you have to go into the menu to hide the keyboard and that is a real pain in the ****...

8) Weight: Definitely heavier than a Bold 9700... Could be good or bad. Nice to have a phone that feels secure but since mine wiggles, it doesn't give that 'confidence' feeling.

9) OS stuff:
- Setup/Options: nice improvement over OS5. It's what will keep me with Blackberry... having actual control over what the OS does rather than having the phone decide for me (ala iPhone). Well, with a few exceptions as noted below.

- Tabs: Thought I would be a fan of them but I think I miss the OS5 layout. Downloads and Frequent seem unnecessary. Favourites is good, but why do they re-sort themselves? (That is a real pain in the ****).

- Apps: Generally, it seems that most of the stuff I use still works with a few exceptions. However, some that are 'supposed' to work are a bit buggy. Particularly: BeReader and PodTrapper. BeReader probably needs an update because the menu pop-up rarely works the way it should, it either kicks in when it shouldn't or doesn't kick-in when it should. PodTrapper took a few resets before it worked right.

- Browser: Nice... much better than before and suits my needs just fine with one exception. I used the "G" or Go-to screen on the 9700 all the time since I could access the bookmarks, history, enter a web page, and use the search box. On the 9800, there is no search box. You need to open up a bookmark to do that. That to me sucks. But maybe they expect people to use universal search instead... so maybe it is just a retraining issue.

10) Holster: The Bold 9000 was great for many things and one of them was that while in the holster, I could change track selections and the volume without taking it out of the holster. For the 9700, at least I can put the volume up. With the 9800, the holster covers them completely so no luck controlling the phone. And I still have no idea what the red thread is for...

So.. where do things stand? Rogers has a 15 day return policy so I'll keep it for the next two weeks to know if I want to stay with it or go back to the 9700. If I keep it, I'll definitely get another one due to the wiggle issue. I think the choice may be harder though if the 9700 had OS6 on it.

[anon(13322)]

Wait? You fine the display better than the new iPod touch?????? Woooow! I didn't even read any after that!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Rickroller]

I've had the Torch for just under 24 hours. With all the trouble I went to get the thing, I admit my initial impressions were a bit of a let down.

Observations:

1) Wiggle. Didn't notice it right out of the box, but I do have some. Example: with the screen closed and hitting the bottom buttons, there is some screen movement. Hard to determine how much but probably a few millimeters. Same with the screen open (little bit of wiggle). If I keep the Torch, I'll likely return it for another one since it bugs me as it doesn't feel as good as a product as the Bold 9700.

2) Screen: Like. Like-a-lot. Resolution is fine for me. For something that is the same resolution as the Bold 9700 (it is isn't it?), I find everything really sharp. Much better than an iPod touch (pre-retina display of course).

3) Touchscreen element: Good but admittedly not as good as an iPod touch. Moving around a screen it is fine and is great for browsing, but it isn't as good for selecting links as the iPod touch or iPhone, which I guess is why we have the trackpad.

3) Trackpad: Plus and minus. Plus: I like the fact that there is a trackpad. It gives you that full fine control you just can't get on an iPhone or iPod. On the minus, due to the limitations of the touchscreen, you pretty much should use it all the time for selecting links rather than just those times where the text is a bit too small and you don't want to select the wrong thing.

If you want to use the touch screen for selecting tiny texts and such, that's what pinch to zoom is for. Zoom in, make your selection, then zoom out.

I also find that the location of the trackpad isn't as good ergonomically as it could be. Due to the sloping nature of the bottom bezel, the trackpad really is at the bottom of the screen and I think my thumb would prefer it higher for balance(?) purposes. I think in a v2 of the Torch, they should allocate a bit more space to the bottom controls.

4) USB port: Never really understood the complaints online until you use it. Since I was trying it out while it was charging (as it just popped the battery in), the location of the micro-USB port really does suck. They should have moved it higher so it wouldn't affect using the keyboard while plugged in. Though I guess once it is charged you wont notice it.

As far as this one goes for me personally, that's how they were on the Storm, so i'm quite used to this already

5) One convenience key: Yeah, why did they do that? Probably will be back in the next version.

With Quicklaunch..all's you really need is one button. But I believe the second one was removed because it seemed to get in the way during camera shots

6) Keyboard (the real one): Like it a lot. Really easy to type on though admittedly the tops keys have given me a few problems due to the screen but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

7) Keyboard (the fake one): Yeah, not as good as an iPod. Will get the job done but the real keyboard is SOOO much easier to type on. And one real thing that bothers me, getting rid of the keyboard once you select it. It seems you have to go into the menu to hide the keyboard and that is a real pain in the ****...

You should be able to "swype" the onscreen keyboard down to hide it.

8) Weight: Definitely heavier than a Bold 9700... Could be good or bad. Nice to have a phone that feels secure but since mine wiggles, it doesn't give that 'confidence' feeling.

9) OS stuff:
- Setup/Options: nice improvement over OS5. It's what will keep me with Blackberry... having actual control over what the OS does rather than having the phone decide for me (ala iPhone). Well, with a few exceptions as noted below.

- Tabs: Thought I would be a fan of them but I think I miss the OS5 layout. Downloads and Frequent seem unnecessary. Favourites is good, but why do they re-sort themselves? (That is a real pain in the ****).

- Apps: Generally, it seems that most of the stuff I use still works with a few exceptions. However, some that are 'supposed' to work are a bit buggy. Particularly: BeReader and PodTrapper. BeReader probably needs an update because the menu pop-up rarely works the way it should, it either kicks in when it shouldn't or doesn't kick-in when it should. PodTrapper took a few resets before it worked right.

- Browser: Nice... much better than before and suits my needs just fine with one exception. I used the "G" or Go-to screen on the 9700 all the time since I could access the bookmarks, history, enter a web page, and use the search box. On the 9800, there is no search box. You need to open up a bookmark to do that. That to me sucks. But maybe they expect people to use universal search instead... so maybe it is just a retraining issue.

I agree..I'm used to Opera Mini where I had a homescreen with all my favorite sites, and i just click on it and go. I hate having to bookmark everything (unless there's a way around it that i'm not aware of)

10) Holster: The Bold 9000 was great for many things and one of them was that while in the holster, I could change track selections and the volume without taking it out of the holster. For the 9700, at least I can put the volume up. With the 9800, the holster covers them completely so no luck controlling the phone. And I still have no idea what the red thread is for...

So.. where do things stand? Rogers has a 15 day return policy so I'll keep it for the next two weeks to know if I want to stay with it or go back to the 9700. If I keep it, I'll definitely get another one due to the wiggle issue. I think the choice may be harder though if the 9700 had OS6 on it.

I personally haven't noticed any wiggle issues, and figured they had maybe been addressed in the newer builds. Sorry to hear your still seeing it.

[xandermac]

Nothing on overall build quality? I found the 9800 to be remarkably "delicate" feeling.

[Rickroller]

Nothing on overall build quality? I found the 9800 to be remarkably "delicate" feeling.

No issues here yet. I find it to be quite sturdy actually (although i'm trying to be gentle when i open the slider..not so much when i close it). I'm used to the 9530 though so it's been awhile since i've had a keyboard to compare it to and such.

[Fr3lncr]

Wait? You fine the display better than the new iPod touch?????? Woooow! I didn't even read any after that!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Just FYI that I stated the resolution was better than the iPod touch 'pre-retina display'...

[Erandhawa]

Rickroller gotta thank u for the swipe info...didn't know i could just swipe the keyboard down very good to know i'll be doing that a lot more often...on a second note i read you were saying you can't just search in the browser? If you just type a search string in the URL field it'll search google or any default provider for u.

[Rikter]

Make sure you realize its 15 days or 30 mins talk time for your Rogers return (correct me if I'm wrong)

[Fr3lncr]

Make sure you realize its 15 days or 30 mins talk time for your Rogers return (correct me if I'm wrong)

No, you're right... I don't use the phone for talking much so the 30 minutes is fine.

To the other guy who pointed out that you can swipe the keyboard down, that's great. Didn't know that and didn't see it in my searches.

Now I'm looking to see what I can do with the screen lock. Every time I pull it from the holster I seem have touch something. The button lock doesn't work because it unlocks when you unholster it, and screen lock with a pasword sort of sucks because it isn't convenient to type the password on the screen. Looks like there are some apps on the forums to try...

Still trying to like this phone but I'm not convinced yet I will keep it... If nothing else, I think it proves that RIM made such a great phone in the 9700 that it is hard to beat once you get used to it...

[sleepngbear]

3) Trackpad: Plus and minus. Plus: I like the fact that there is a trackpad. It gives you that full fine control you just can't get on an iPhone or iPod. On the minus, due to the limitations of the touchscreen, you pretty much should use it all the time for selecting links rather than just those times where the text is a bit too small and you don't want to select the wrong thing.

If you want to use the touch screen for selecting tiny texts and such, that's what pinch to zoom is for. Zoom in, make your selection, then zoom out.

Another option when the text is too small to read or manipulate is to double-tap in the text area. In most cases, the double-tap will do an auto-zoom, where it zooms in but keeps your text in a readable column, so you don't have to scroll from side from one end of a line to the other. Works especially well in landscape mode (sideways), but also works in portrait mode (normal). Very cool feature.

[dwaynewilliams#WN]

I say keep the Torch. Every slider that I have had my hands on has had a little wiggle to it. It seems impossible to me that it wouldn't. I think that the phone will prove itself to be great. Just hand in there.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ssbtech]

1) Wiggle. Didn't notice it right out of the box, but I do have some. Example: with the screen closed and hitting the bottom buttons, there is some screen movement. Hard to determine how much but probably a few millimeters. Same with the screen open (little bit of wiggle). If I keep the Torch, I'll likely return it for another one since it bugs me as it doesn't feel as good as a product as the Bold 9700.

You realize that "a few millimeters" is almost as much as the thickness of the screen?

If it wiggles an entire screen's thickness you definately have a problem.

Mine wiggles by about 0.5 mm when I am tapping on it in the closed position. Not sure if I want to live with that yet.