[anon(51467)]

Wow. Talk about a failed use of analogies. I used the Ford Pinto as an example because it does the bare minimum and gets you around and not much else. The BMW is more like Android, iPhone, or WebOS - clearly much more sophisticated and does a lot more. Someone with a Ford Pinto (BB user like yourself) would look at a BMW (Android, iPhone, WebOS) and say that your Pinto does everything you need it to do and the BMW is just filled with useless high-end parts, etc.

There, I corrected your failed use of one analogy. Now I'll correct another.

Using the firearm example? Really? If the firearm industry moved as fast as the smartphone industry, we'd have bullets that seek targets as far as China. You really think anybody's trying to replicate BB's? That was a rhetorical question BTW.

Hahahaha, nope. You don't know what BMW I have. I have an old one that does not have all the latest gee-whiz crap that a 5 year old Toyota has. So my analogy is fine, you assumed something.

As for firearms, I am still spot on, iphone is still trying to replicate proper email push technology like BB has had for it's entire existence, and they just introduced multi-tasking. And there are some amazing weapon technologies you must not know about.

What you missed was as I stated; the iphone works for you; great, enjoy it. For some of us the bb is what we want and need, thus we use it. I am happy your iphone, android phone, what-have-you is so cutting edge your fingers bleed when you pick up the phone. I pick up my bb and get my work and personal life communications taken care of. It's quite simple, however I am saddened I responded to you twice. I may have been sucked in by a troll. ;-)

Collins, OUT!

[FMB8900]

hahahaha, nope. You don't know what bmw i have. I have an old one that does not have all the latest gee-whiz crap that a 5 year old toyota has. So my analogy is fine, you assumed something.

as for firearms, i am still spot on, iphone is still trying to replicate proper email push technology like bb has had for it's entire existence, and they just introduced multi-tasking. And there are some amazing weapon technologies you must not know about.

What you missed was as i stated; the iphone works for you; great, enjoy it. For some of us the bb is what we want and need, thus we use it. I am happy your iphone, android phone, what-have-you is so cutting edge your fingers bleed when you pick up the phone. I pick up my bb and get my work and personal life communications taken care of. It's quite simple, however i am saddened i responded to you twice. I may have been sucked in by a troll. ;-)

collins, out!

lmao ..... XD

[alby4ever]

Absolutely false as far as people not needing security. I work for UPS, and they only issue BlackBerries, because even when we are in the field, UPS maintains control of the device.

We spend big money to install 3rd party software on company laptops to prevent them from being used by unauthorized people. Even when you pull the hard drive and put it into another running machine, it's not accessible. BlackBerry has this kind of security built in.

We've also got 8330s, Bold 9000s, Tours, and (soon) the new 9650s on our network. We have to maintain support for all devices. RIM knows that whatever devices they release, both the front end and back end have to be completely backwards compatible. The BES admin has to be able to control the older 8330 as well as the new 9650, and it can't matter if they are on VZW or AT&T or Sprint or T*Mobile.

Yes, BlackBerry is lagging behind on innovation and technology.
Yes, RIM does not typically go for the "wow" factor.
Yes, device security will always be a selling point for BlackBerries. Just because it won't be in the consumer market doesn't make it less true. UPS will not purchase iPhones or Androids for their users that need smart phones. BlackBerry is the only option because UPS can maintain control.

I should have expanded my security argument beyond CIA and the White House to businesses, but my point remains the same. YOU yourself, or anybody here who PERSONALLY goes out and buys a BB and uses the security benefit to justify their purchase as a superior choice over iPhone or Android are fooling themselves.

Yes it doesn't surprise me that UPS needs BB's for their security. But when I hear a lot of BB diehards fall back (FALL BACK because they tend to do that when others point out the limitations of BB's) on the security benefit, it's absolutely ridiculous. If you lose your personal BB, guess what? If you didn't put a password lock on it, your data's free for the thief to see. Yeah, security.

[alby4ever]

Hahahaha, nope. You don't know what BMW I have. I have an old one that does not have all the latest gee-whiz crap that a 5 year old Toyota has. So my analogy is fine, you assumed something.

As for firearms, I am still spot on, iphone is still trying to replicate proper email push technology like BB has had for it's entire existence, and they just introduced multi-tasking. And there are some amazing weapon technologies you must not know about.

I'm not referring to your old BMW. I'm referring to 2010 BMW's that are superior feature-wise to old junk cars. So if you fall back and say that your old junk car drives you around and does what you need and you don't need a fancy 2010 BMW, then that's fine. BB's are these old junk cars that get you from A to B and the iPhones and Androids of the world are the 2010 BMW's.

Critical thinking is not your strongest suit. It's the simplest analogy you still fail to understand.

And the push email argument is the biggest farce of them all. iPhones and Androids get push email. Try it. Yeah that's what happens when you're actually trying to improve your product instead of using the same old rehash. Wow Bold 9650! It looks and works so much like the Bold 9000! Or the Tour 9630! Exact same features from two years ago must be innovative by RIM's standards!

Ok. Sure.

[life.in.the.fast.lane]

Definitly wanting to upgrade to the iPhone 4. When the first iPhone came out, I decided to get a curve 8310 instead. For the past four years, I've owned blackberrys instead of iPhones, and while they are great messaging devices, I'd rather have messaging + media (internet, apps, social networking.) While blackberry has come an enormous way since the first curve, there is still along way to go in my opinon. While I'm addicted to my curve 8900, I'd love to for once get an iPhone. However, since I can't upgrade til 2011 and I'm not about to pay $400 in early upgrade fee's, I guess I'm stuck with the ole berry for another year at least..

[Moonbase0ne]

I should have expanded my security argument beyond CIA and the White House to businesses, but my point remains the same. YOU yourself, or anybody here who PERSONALLY goes out and buys a BB and uses the security benefit to justify their purchase as a superior choice over iPhone or Android are fooling themselves.

Yes it doesn't surprise me that UPS needs BB's for their security. But when I hear a lot of BB diehards fall back (FALL BACK because they tend to do that when others point out the limitations of BB's) on the security benefit, it's absolutely ridiculous. If you lose your personal BB, guess what? If you didn't put a password lock on it, your data's free for the thief to see. Yeah, security.

I have to agree. Yes, people working at UPS, FedEX, the CIA, or the CEO of a Bank needs security when they pick a phone. But, the average person picking up a phone? Not so much. In fact, the average person doesn't really need a smart phone. It's pretty much a luxury. Security has never really been a selling point for me in buying my phone. But then again, I don't really use my phone to send emails that contain any secret security code, or Bank Vault Passwords, or list of operatives over in harms way. Usually the usually pic message, "what up for the weekend" type of emails. I suspect most people who buy a phone on their own are the same.

So, I'm sure the other 2/3 big phone platforms out there aren't that insecure when it comes to a consumers regular cellphone needs.

Minues small/medium business users ofcourse....

[Radius]

The battery doesn't drain any faster with a jailbroken iPhone with backgrounder installed. So I would think Apple is able to do it as well. Everything that you can do in jailbreaking is the true capabilities of the phone that Apple just hasn't unlocked.

I am curious what Backgrounder actually does. A true multitasking system takes a hit on processors and batteries no question. I deal with the processor issues on the PC daily and have to balance my threads well to get it working without impacting the whole system.

It stands to reason that the more cycles you use the more power it consumes. There is probably a break even point, start 15 apps and you will notice as the CPU is taxed. Start 3 apps and no noticeable difference, but there still is a difference.

[dwaynewilliams#WN]

I think the 9800 slider will be better.

[westla7]

What I like about new iPhone 4 is also design of it. Apple made it masculine (if we can describe it so), not plastic, very urban and professionally looking. It's not an iPod in your hand, but a real smartphone. I am very sorry to see that RIM is doing their phones smaller and more toy-like. But well, it might be my own preference.
I know for sure that build quality of iPhone will be super . I am using iOS4 on my old iPhone 3G and it works nice and stable. Much easier to handle emails with "combined mail inbox".
Multiple Exchange accounts, real push and calendar sync for them brings it to the interesting level.
My business is using Google Apps and it works flawlesly all together

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[westla7]

The big thing which I am missing from Blackberry isthe ability to see LED light if you have new message. And the way Beejiive works on BB for all my IMs. They (beejive) will probably release new version for iOS4 soon, but till it's released - I'd say beejive on iPhone is less attractive than on BB for me.
Battery life? Apple says they improved battery life for 40%
might be true, we'll see. Looks like killer device then
But frankly I still miss Blackberry, just for it's ease of use messaging. But it looks it's loosing more comparing to other devices than it provides ;-(

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[thymaster]

The only thing I don't get about the 9800 is the trackpad. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of a touchscreen. The fact that it's an unnecessary added moving part, there is going to be more problem with the phone. They could have cut out the trackpad and extend the screen size.

One thing I admire about apple engineering is that they keep everything clean, simple and yet powerful. Slider phones tend to be problematic and by adding the trackpad, I can totally see the future of this phone going down the slump.

[Moonbase0ne]

I don't know, I think with the Slider, if you are typing on the k/b, the trackpad might be handy for some takes instead of you having to reach al the way to the top of the screen or whatever to try to touch on something to zoom, type in, etc... But yes, if you are going to be using the virtual k/b or flicking pics, etc.... that's when the track Pad is not needed.

I like the slider because it gives the option of either physical keyboard or virtual keyboard, and it looks like a decent touch screen, minus the god awful(IMO), Surepress on the storm.

I think now, for me atleast, it's a matter of how the phone ends up. As in memory, processor, etc... I think what we are seeing for OS6 are the early builds, but who knows.

But, great OS6 or not, if the 9800 still has lack of memory, lack of App memory, and pretty much outdated tech when it's released, I'll move on.

Don't really care for the flip(looks hideous, IMO), and as it is now, will not wait forever for a storm, besides, I am on ATT and wont be spending a few hundred $$$ to get a phone unlocked.

[Masahiro]

I'd love Masahiro or i7guy or somebody else to dispute this. Also I keep hearing these same users claim that BB is for business. Then an actual CEO (rooster99 is his username I think) comes in and just blows that argument to pieces.

You're asking the wrong guy if you think I give a damn about security or business use for my BlackBerry. I'm just a regular consumer. As long as no one can break into my personal information if they steal my phone (password lock), then I'm fine.

sublime313's post is also QFT. There's a reason why BB's are no longer compared to the newest smartphones - any rational person would not put BB's in the same category as Android, iPhone, or WebOS.

You're absolutely right. They're in a totally different category. RIM's one of two OEMs that don't pigeonhole themselves into making only touchscreen phones (or phones with **** poor physical keyboards).

I also keep hearing "BB's do what I need and that's it." Yeah well if you've only driven a Ford Pinto your whole life, then of course you'd say something similar as well.

Insulting peoples' tastes is a coward's way out of an actual argument.

[westla7]

Masahiro, out of curiosity, why do you prefer Blackberryto everything else? What are your personal reasons? Thnks

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[cdf3]

The only thing I don't get about the 9800 is the trackpad. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of a touchscreen. The fact that it's an unnecessary added moving part, there is going to be more problem with the phone. They could have cut out the trackpad and extend the screen size.

One thing I admire about apple engineering is that they keep everything clean, simple and yet powerful. Slider phones tend to be problematic and by adding the trackpad, I can totally see the future of this phone going down the slump.

A trackpad is a must for me. Especially when navigating and editing cells in an Excel Spreasheet. I tried doing it with an all touchscreen device. I got frustrated. I couldn't select the correct cell I needed if I was zoomed out. It wasn't so band when I zoomed in, but by zooming in I ended up seeing less of the spreadsheet.

[exelant]

Mine is a personal phone that I do work on occasionally. I prefer the physical keyboard that holds up to my constant pounding. I use docs to go to create very good documents and spreadsheets. I have no problems communicating with my friends and colleagues using four different I'm apps. I always have a good signal, rarely drop a call and can use WiFi with ease.

I know a bit about Apple products as I use an iTouch. The iTouch has been replaced 5 times for the same problem - broken headphone jack. Trust me, I have babied the jack after the second replacement. Once the warranty ran out, I discovered they will not repair it. As far as Apple is concerned, you have to buy a new one and we all know how much they cost. I had to buy the part on ebay and fix it myself.

Perhaps the BlackBerry isn't sexy, but despite what some say, these's a lot to be said for boring old steady performance. I have noticed that over the last couple years BlackBerry's devices have gotten better. And even my browser works well for what I do - research and reading. To play games is what an XBox is for. Those are the reasons I like my blackberry. You want something different, great, go get it. That's no reason to criticize my tastes.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[alby4ever]

Insulting peoples' tastes is a coward's way out of an actual argument.

Having used a Bold 9000 for a year, I'd say my analogy was a pretty accurate argument. Somebody else used a horse and carriage analogy somewhere else as well so my analogy was actually being generous - but both points are the same.

[Claidheamhmor]

The iPhone4 looks nice, but I'm sticking with BB.
-PIN messaging; many of my friends & family are on BB.
-Physical keyboard. I just don't get on with touchscreens.
-More open - I can load apps from whatever site I want to (or from my local PC), can customise things to my preferences, can replace the battery if I want to, if I want more storage I put in a new SD card, I can use any MicroUSB cable I want, and I can connect it to my PC and use it as a removable storage device.
-On BES, I'm connected to work. Over-the-air sync, with access into our network for stuff like server and network admin.

I've been happy with my BB. It's been rock-solid stable, the interface is fast (certainly quicker than the iPhone 3GS), the screen is crisp, the music player is decent (certainly better than my iPod Shuffle), multitasking is really good (and I use it!), and it does what I need.

[FMB8900]

You're asking the wrong guy if you think I give a damn about security or business use for my BlackBerry. I'm just a regular consumer. As long as no one can break into my personal information if they steal my phone (password lock), then I'm fine.



You're absolutely right. They're in a totally different category. RIM's one of two OEMs that don't pigeonhole themselves into making only touchscreen phones (or phones with **** poor physical keyboards).



Insulting peoples' tastes is a coward's way out of an actual argument.

haha Niceeee

[chrismage]

I find for me its more about the data cost than anything else . BB i can pay 15 for unlimited email and social network with the iphone the cheapest data plan is 65 dollars plus tax, you cant just pay a lower fee for useing two things . Its waaaay to expensive for me. Besides i think the BB is just better looking though my bb 8220flip is loosing its charm.

[exelant]

One doesn't go to Apple for cost Chris. We had an Ipod touch break a headphone jack post after the warranty was up, we discovered they do not repair iPods. The only option that was offered to us was to buy a new one for over 350.00 bucks. I had to buy the part from ebay and fix it myself - something most people won't attempt - but the repair was $30 for the part.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[devGOD]

One doesn't go to Apple for cost Chris. We had an Ipod touch break a headphone jack post after the warranty was up, we discovered they do not repair iPods. The only option that was offered to us was to buy a new one for over 350.00 bucks. I had to buy the part from ebay and fix it myself - something most people won't attempt - but the repair was $30 for the part.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

BB's break down all the time... just go to the 9700 forum just about everyone is on there 2nd or 3rd 9700. RIMs quality has dropped.

[fearmychickens]

BB's break down all the time... just go to the 9700 forum just about everyone is on there 2nd or 3rd 9700. RIMs quality has dropped.

People on the forums are in the minority. I had an 8900 (which had worse build quality than a 9700) for about a year with no problems. If you go to the Apple forums you'll find people having lots of issues with their iPhones/iPods. Forums are the minority.

[Radius]

BB's break down all the time... just go to the 9700 forum just about everyone is on there 2nd or 3rd 9700. RIMs quality has dropped.

I've seen no evidence of this. With all the people at my workplace that have them only one person had to send theirs in due to a faulty trackball. Otherwise, no problems.

[aimeeattitude]

Blah blah blah. If we will use car analogies, I am a BMW pilot all the way and I have a BlackBerry 9000. It is exactly what I want and need. Like my bimmer, I am happy with it. If you like your iphone, great. This new one is okay, to my architectural eye I like it's physical design better than the previous versions.

I have used numerous Android devices, meh. None of the touch screens work for me. Kind of like notebook computers: best keyboard out there is IBM/Lenovo. So too for BlackBerry, a physical keyboard is a must for me and moto droid ain't that good. The BlackBerry 9000 keyboard still remains supreme.

Oh and if I can go firearm analogy, why is it the old 1911A1 continues to be replicated and copied? It just works right. Same for BlackBerry, it just makes sense, to me the Apple gui paradigm is hit and miss, it does not always make sense.

And finally, who gives a rat's tail? You like Apple? You go boy, get and iphone. I like BlackBerry keyboards and BES from my exchange server. Everybody is happy. Why does it bother you I like "old" technology? My old mil-spec compass works without batteries, will your icompass work without batteries? Yeah I guess not.

Old age and treachery beat youth and speed every time.

love it