09-26-10 08:56 PM
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  1. devGOD's Avatar
    I am seriously thinking about making that big leap to the i4 .... That thing is extreme eye candy .
    you're already on AT&T so you know the service is crap by default might as well make the jump. I know if i was on at&t no way i'd own a bb what's the point service is crappy might as well get the baddest phone on the market the iphone.
    06-08-10 04:28 PM
  2. foxyninja7's Avatar
    Young vs Old... that should be the title.

    This is how I see it, if RIM created the 9800 with all the features of the iPhone 4 in it the old timers and BB diehard lovers would go crazy saying its the best phone "ever". But since it wasn't RIM and another brand that's my hip/and popular well of course you'll receive negative feedback. People do it without even thinking, its called brand loyalty. Just like how people will defend there political party, state, city, and any product they purchase. Me personally I'm not loyal to any company other than the one I own and I can say the iPhone is very impressive no matter what anyone says RIM should be envious of what Apple is doing.

    I'm 18 and I just got a Blackberry. The iPhone just wasn't for me. its not "young versus old" but "productivity versus fun".

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-08-10 04:31 PM
  3. StormJH1's Avatar
    Young vs Old... that should be the title.
    That really isn't what it is. I know the perception that there's a bunch of 16-year-olds getting iPhones, and they don't seem likely to want BB's, but that isn't it. It's really about two different avenues that get people into the smartphone game.

    What Apple is so good at is taking technology that is basically already available and marketing it to a broad consumer base in a way that says "here's how this could make your life better". A lot of people laugh off that new video chat from iPhone 4 to iPhone 4, but I'm telling you, that feature will move devices and encourage people to upgrade.

    There's always going to be other devices that the tech savvy crowd knows about and that are ahead of the iPhone in pure specs. A lot of people probably feel like the HTC Evo is a better phone than the new iPhone and they may be right. But Evo won't have a marketing campaign like Apple comes up with.

    If a tree falls in the forest and it has a Snapdragon processor and 8-megapixel camera, but there's no one around to tell you why you should care...does anyone notice?
    06-08-10 04:51 PM
  4. bencousens's Avatar
    iPhone 4 vs. the smartphone elite: EVO 4G, N8, Pre Plus, and HD2 -- Engadget

    it's funny, RIM users have a serious inferiority complex. and it's understandable; RIM hardware is way behind.

    when one of your biggest "advantages" over your competition is BBM what does that say about your product?

    people always like to bring up stability/security. we've seen the stability lacked with the storm. and i, for one, saw many, many BIS outages over the past few years (none lately).

    so are these really advantages, or just a way for you to make yourself feel secure about your device?


    RIMs current line lacks in technical specs, aesthetics, software, and innovation.

    2 years ago, the Bold 9000 could actually claim to have nice screen res and a fast processor. the current line is just a bunch of 9000's with more RAM and better cameras.

    i'm a 5 year blackberry user and when my upgrade comes in another year i'll be on a different device.
    +1. Finally a post that isn't drudged with just being loyal to RIM. I know I'm on a fansite, but honestly, you just have to look at the facts. RIM are still good now by all means - I love my BlackBerry, but there is a huge question mark over the future that is very intriguing in a bad way.
    06-08-10 05:32 PM
  5. kona0197's Avatar
    The iPhone costs more to run than a Blackberry will. Add in the fact you are locked into Apple's DRM with every app you use on the iPhone.
    06-08-10 05:51 PM
  6. Xopher's Avatar
    I have to say the new i4 does look impressive. Is it enough to make me switch devices? Maybe. Is it enough to make me switch to AT&T? No. At least not until I see how it works compared to previous models.

    My best friend got rid of his 3GS when he couldn't make phone calls from it. He would literally have to go out to the parking lot to use the phone (make or receive calls). Wifi would work in the office, and wireless data would work fine, but he wouldn't even know a call came in until the missed call notice was displayed. We could count on a dropped call at least 1/3 of the time we talked.

    I run my business though my phone. Phone calls, e-mails, apps for taking orders, charging credit cards, even accessing my office computer remotely. I'm sure I could do most of that from any smart phone on the market today. But, if the service doesn't work, then what good does the fanciest phone on the market really do?
    06-08-10 05:52 PM
  7. alby4ever's Avatar
    Where to begin?

    Non-truncated e-mails.
    Full html e-mails
    no download/upload cap
    ring tones and alerts that play through headsets or BT
    ease of copy/paste
    full/ quick web browsing experience
    1,000's of 20-30 meg open GLES 2.0 3D applications
    1,000's of 30mg+ feature rich applications
    Native turn by turn voice directions
    native speech recognition and full abilities (from calling to search)
    no lack of memory
    no lag
    compass

    Dozens of devices that have come out in the last 2 years meet these specifications. No BB does. No BB expected to debut until 2011 will meet more than 1 or 2 of these. No BB slated to release before 2012 will meet more than 1 or 2 of these. And that new webkit browser? With Java enabled on a BES, is not much faster than what BES users have now. And even BIS or WIFI will still not beat the latest Android or Safari offerings.

    Compare the i-phone4 to the 9800? Its like comparing a WWII tank to an X7. While an X7 has all the modern features speed and amenities, it can't go through 6 inches of mud, take a few rounds of 60mm fire and fire back. If I want that level of security I'll have no choice but to take the tank. O/W I'll go with the X7. (In reality I drive a Wrangler - so go figure.) The thing is, most people who brag on the BB security on this site, don't need it. Don't know what the heck it does and why. Heck, how many people think they are really targets of industrial espionage going hard after their personal e-mails and contacts off their handhelds? You think? How many private citizens have their personal information electronically intercepted from I-phones and Androids each year? The answer? NONE. Get over yourselves. If you are a fortune 500 CEO, an A-list litigation partner; working on a confidential transaction; or an elected official - YOU NEED SECURITY. The rest of you are just sitting in a Sherman telling others around you thet they don't understand the road conditions in the winter. It would be so laughable, if it wasn't so pathetic.
    QFT.

    I hear the security argument all the time and it's getting quite pathetic. You are right. All these BB diehards shouting about security aren't the people who RIM designed the security standards for. Unless they work for the CIA, White House, or some high-level agency with REAL SECRETS, then the security argument is pointless.

    I'd love Masahiro or i7guy or somebody else to dispute this. Also I keep hearing these same users claim that BB is for business. Then an actual CEO (rooster99 is his username I think) comes in and just blows that argument to pieces.

    sublime313's post is also QFT. There's a reason why BB's are no longer compared to the newest smartphones - any rational person would not put BB's in the same category as Android, iPhone, or WebOS.

    I also keep hearing "BB's do what I need and that's it." Yeah well if you've only driven a Ford Pinto your whole life, then of course you'd say something similar as well.

    On another thread I saw a post that said RIM was innovative as well with SurePress, the 9800 slider, and enhanced security. First off, it's only innovative when it wows an industry and the competition tries to adopt something similar. Nobody gave a **** about SurePress. The 9800 slider.... yeah I saw the Palm Pre last year. The enhanced security.... you're 99.9% most likely not that important that you'll need it.
    06-08-10 06:52 PM
  8. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    The engadget comparson between the iPhone 4, Nexus 1, EVO, Pre was pretty funny when they said RIM wasn't invited to the party. Basically because they didn't a device worthy to be in the conversation. Die hard BB users are quick to say it's the best device ever but then once you point out all the flaws, they skip to the argument that it's for business use. Most people on this site use them for personal use anyway.
    06-08-10 07:28 PM
  9. exelant's Avatar
    Bla bla bla bla bla bla. Pathetic defined is someone who feels a need to go to someone's home and criticize their decor. Why not get an iphone, join an iphone site, and get a life?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-08-10 07:31 PM
  10. Vlad M.'s Avatar
    Some thoughts:

    Iphone 4 VS BB 9800 for me its Iphone VS BB in general:
    -fetch email VS push email
    -no PIN messanger VS BBM
    -non replacable battery VS replacable battery

    I am leaving security out of the equation. If it were not for the points I meantioned I'd say Iphone 4 all the way. RIM is not even close to winning, but push email and battery can't be neglected.

    Its like not being able to drive a Porsch, because it has no headlights and no horn. It's a Porsch! You might drive it during day...it works, during night? hmmm maybe, you try so hard to light the road with a torch, and it works somehow (again security taken out of the equation) Instead, you take a solid Honda, which has headlights and a horn, and you are good to go, but you keep thinking about the Porsch and how great it is. None of the Porsches have headlights and horns, and all Hondas have...choose.

    Iphone - taking risks, some things are simply great others nonexistent
    BlackBerry - decent device, but absolutely nothing in it is extraordinary
    Last edited by Vlad M.; 06-08-10 at 08:09 PM.
    06-08-10 07:50 PM
  11. pilsbury's Avatar
    How are we supposed to speculate on two devices that haven't been released yet?
    06-08-10 07:50 PM
  12. westla7's Avatar
    Some thoughts:

    Iphone 4 VS BB 9800 for me its Iphone VS BB in general:
    -fetch email VS push email
    -no PIN messanger VS BBM
    -non replacable battery VS replacable battery
    1. iPhone HAS Push E-Mail for years now. You can have PUSH email with Exchange account. You can have PUSH email configuring your Gmail account. You can have PUSH email if you use MobileMe. RTFM. Just read it, really.

    2. BBM makes sense only if your recipients are Blackberry users. In many cases it's not always like that. (And frankly speaking the whole idea of elite PIN proprietary IM users is very stupid). So, there is Beejive. Works on Blackberry and iPhone.

    3. Never had to replace battery. Neither on Blackberry, and obviously not on an iPhone. Why it's an argument at all? Keep spare car/wall charger. Works with any phone :-)
    06-08-10 08:07 PM
  13. westla7's Avatar
    Yeah but when Apple does it, it's done right. I bet there are no memory leaks or sluggish OS because too many apps are open and I won't have to do a battery pull. Apple does a lot of things afterwards but they also innovate. The difference is, when Apple decides to do something, they do it correctly and make it easier. Come on now, copy and paste is easier on the iPhone than any other device. Try that on a Storm. It's a joke.
    Totally agree. Blackberry still deals with well-known memory leaking issues. Devs complaining about it all the time. Nobody in RIM apparently gives a **** about it. But, oh, yeah, RIM *has* multitasking.
    06-08-10 08:09 PM
  14. westla7's Avatar
    What I am really worried, is that when I see how far along iPhone and Android devices jumped... it's like we have the devices of the future. They do a lot. Do it really good. RIM -- was one of the first innovators in mobile space. But they decided to take it easy, and see what - nowadays it's not even worth to compare their devices with others. They are niche now. For people who 1) like them and don't want change anything 2) people who really need security 3) like physical keyboard.
    And that's a very thin line now for RIM. People who really like Blackberries and don't want to change do not make any difference in market share. Other users will eventually look on the other side and switch. Security? Well, okay. Very niche. And physical keyboard is "for now" - until Motorola, HTC or some other vendor decides to make really good Android phone with really good keyboard. It's just a matter of months, not even years (does everybody see how fast new Android devices been released?)
    06-08-10 08:14 PM
  15. PapaLovesMambo's Avatar
    Blackberry - available on just about any carrier.
    iPhone - AT&T or nothing. Or as my aunt Mildred used to say at supper time, "You have two choices. Take it, or leave it."
    06-08-10 09:01 PM
  16. anon(51467)'s Avatar
    Blah blah blah. If we will use car analogies, I am a BMW pilot all the way and I have a BlackBerry 9000. It is exactly what I want and need. Like my bimmer, I am happy with it. If you like your iphone, great. This new one is okay, to my architectural eye I like it's physical design better than the previous versions.

    I have used numerous Android devices, meh. None of the touch screens work for me. Kind of like notebook computers: best keyboard out there is IBM/Lenovo. So too for BlackBerry, a physical keyboard is a must for me and moto droid ain't that good. The BlackBerry 9000 keyboard still remains supreme.

    Oh and if I can go firearm analogy, why is it the old 1911A1 continues to be replicated and copied? It just works right. Same for BlackBerry, it just makes sense, to me the Apple gui paradigm is hit and miss, it does not always make sense.

    And finally, who gives a rat's tail? You like Apple? You go boy, get and iphone. I like BlackBerry keyboards and BES from my exchange server. Everybody is happy. Why does it bother you I like "old" technology? My old mil-spec compass works without batteries, will your icompass work without batteries? Yeah I guess not.

    Old age and treachery beat youth and speed every time.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-08-10 09:53 PM
  17. FMB8900's Avatar
    Blah blah blah. If we will use car analogies, I am a BMW pilot all the way and I have a BlackBerry 9000. It is exactly what I want and need. Like my bimmer, I am happy with it. If you like your iphone, great. This new one is okay, to my architectural eye I like it's physical design better than the previous versions.

    I have used numerous Android devices, meh. None of the touch screens work for me. Kind of like notebook computers: best keyboard out there is IBM/Lenovo. So too for BlackBerry, a physical keyboard is a must for me and moto droid ain't that good. The BlackBerry 9000 keyboard still remains supreme.

    Oh and if I can go firearm analogy, why is it the old 1911A1 continues to be replicated and copied? It just works right. Same for BlackBerry, it just makes sense, to me the Apple gui paradigm is hit and miss, it does not always make sense.

    And finally, who gives a rat's tail? You like Apple? You go boy, get and iphone. I like BlackBerry keyboards and BES from my exchange server. Everybody is happy. Why does it bother you I like "old" technology? My old mil-spec compass works without batteries, will your icompass work without batteries? Yeah I guess not.

    Old age and treachery beat youth and speed every time.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    nice....
    06-08-10 09:59 PM
  18. MrObvious's Avatar
    Hehe you guys and your arguments.
    06-08-10 10:17 PM
  19. westla7's Avatar
    I'm 18 and I just got a Blackberry. The iPhone just wasn't for me. its not "young versus old" but "productivity versus fun".
    What productivity??? It's just funny to heart "Meh, iPhones are toys" and "Blackberry is real business productivity!". What the heck does it mean? And statistics shows that more than 70% of purchases on Blackberries are THEMES and GAMES. Productivity is physical keyboard? that's it? What else?

    Really, I love Blackberry. I have both Blackberry 9700 and iPhone 3G. I develop for iPhone, so I need to have it. Using them 50/50. But I know pros/cons of each of them. That's why such statements sound just "newbie" for me.
    06-08-10 10:34 PM
  20. alby4ever's Avatar
    Blah blah blah. If we will use car analogies, I am a BMW pilot all the way and I have a BlackBerry 9000. It is exactly what I want and need. Like my bimmer, I am happy with it. If you like your iphone, great. This new one is okay, to my architectural eye I like it's physical design better than the previous versions.

    I have used numerous Android devices, meh. None of the touch screens work for me. Kind of like notebook computers: best keyboard out there is IBM/Lenovo. So too for BlackBerry, a physical keyboard is a must for me and moto droid ain't that good. The BlackBerry 9000 keyboard still remains supreme.

    Oh and if I can go firearm analogy, why is it the old 1911A1 continues to be replicated and copied? It just works right. Same for BlackBerry, it just makes sense, to me the Apple gui paradigm is hit and miss, it does not always make sense.

    And finally, who gives a rat's tail? You like Apple? You go boy, get and iphone. I like BlackBerry keyboards and BES from my exchange server. Everybody is happy. Why does it bother you I like "old" technology? My old mil-spec compass works without batteries, will your icompass work without batteries? Yeah I guess not.

    Old age and treachery beat youth and speed every time.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Wow. Talk about a failed use of analogies. I used the Ford Pinto as an example because it does the bare minimum and gets you around and not much else. The BMW is more like Android, iPhone, or WebOS - clearly much more sophisticated and does a lot more. Someone with a Ford Pinto (BB user like yourself) would look at a BMW (Android, iPhone, WebOS) and say that your Pinto does everything you need it to do and the BMW is just filled with useless high-end parts, etc.

    There, I corrected your failed use of one analogy. Now I'll correct another.

    Using the firearm example? Really? If the firearm industry moved as fast as the smartphone industry, we'd have bullets that seek targets as far as China. You really think anybody's trying to replicate BB's? That was a rhetorical question BTW.
    06-08-10 11:13 PM
  21. greggebhardt's Avatar
    I have left Blackberry 3 times to go to the iPhone and have returned with in a week each time. As much as the new iPhone 4 sounds so tempting, I will not do it again. My iPad and iMac running WIN7 does what I need but NOTHING does email, phone and scheduling better than my Blackberry.

    I guess if you want alot of games, software and Internet the Apple product is the best. But if you are running a business and need the basic out of office communications thing, RIM has Apple beat!
    06-09-10 05:54 AM
  22. JustPlainJef's Avatar
    QFT.

    I hear the security argument all the time and it's getting quite pathetic. You are right. All these BB diehards shouting about security aren't the people who RIM designed the security standards for. Unless they work for the CIA, White House, or some high-level agency with REAL SECRETS, then the security argument is pointless.

    I'd love Masahiro or i7guy or somebody else to dispute this. Also I keep hearing these same users claim that BB is for business. Then an actual CEO (rooster99 is his username I think) comes in and just blows that argument to pieces.

    sublime313's post is also QFT. There's a reason why BB's are no longer compared to the newest smartphones - any rational person would not put BB's in the same category as Android, iPhone, or WebOS.

    I also keep hearing "BB's do what I need and that's it." Yeah well if you've only driven a Ford Pinto your whole life, then of course you'd say something similar as well.

    On another thread I saw a post that said RIM was innovative as well with SurePress, the 9800 slider, and enhanced security. First off, it's only innovative when it wows an industry and the competition tries to adopt something similar. Nobody gave a **** about SurePress. The 9800 slider.... yeah I saw the Palm Pre last year. The enhanced security.... you're 99.9% most likely not that important that you'll need it.
    Absolutely false as far as people not needing security. I work for UPS, and they only issue BlackBerries, because even when we are in the field, UPS maintains control of the device.

    We spend big money to install 3rd party software on company laptops to prevent them from being used by unauthorized people. Even when you pull the hard drive and put it into another running machine, it's not accessible. BlackBerry has this kind of security built in.

    We've also got 8330s, Bold 9000s, Tours, and (soon) the new 9650s on our network. We have to maintain support for all devices. RIM knows that whatever devices they release, both the front end and back end have to be completely backwards compatible. The BES admin has to be able to control the older 8330 as well as the new 9650, and it can't matter if they are on VZW or AT&T or Sprint or T*Mobile.

    Yes, BlackBerry is lagging behind on innovation and technology.
    Yes, RIM does not typically go for the "wow" factor.
    Yes, device security will always be a selling point for BlackBerries. Just because it won't be in the consumer market doesn't make it less true. UPS will not purchase iPhones or Androids for their users that need smart phones. BlackBerry is the only option because UPS can maintain control.
    06-09-10 07:17 AM
  23. TgeekB's Avatar
    you're already on AT&T so you know the service is ****ty by default might as well make the jump. I know if i was on at&t no way i'd own a bb what's the point service is crappy might as well get the baddest phone on the market the iphone.
    General statement that is not true for everyone including myself.
    06-09-10 07:46 AM
  24. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    QFT.

    I hear the security argument all the time and it's getting quite pathetic. You are right. All these BB diehards shouting about security aren't the people who RIM designed the security standards for. Unless they work for the CIA, White House, or some high-level agency with REAL SECRETS, then the security argument is pointless.

    I'd love Masahiro or i7guy or somebody else to dispute this. Also I keep hearing these same users claim that BB is for business. Then an actual CEO (rooster99 is his username I think) comes in and just blows that argument to pieces.

    sublime313's post is also QFT. There's a reason why BB's are no longer compared to the newest smartphones - any rational person would not put BB's in the same category as Android, iPhone, or WebOS.

    I also keep hearing "BB's do what I need and that's it." Yeah well if you've only driven a Ford Pinto your whole life, then of course you'd say something similar as well.

    On another thread I saw a post that said RIM was innovative as well with SurePress, the 9800 slider, and enhanced security. First off, it's only innovative when it wows an industry and the competition tries to adopt something similar. Nobody gave a **** about SurePress. The 9800 slider.... yeah I saw the Palm Pre last year. The enhanced security.... you're 99.9% most likely not that important that you'll need it.

    Because you don't like the Blackberry doesn't mean you can compare it to the Pinto, I do truly love the way my BB works, I'm a gadget junky and would give the time of day to other devices if they met my needs. but they don't, I drive a Ford F250 Truck, with a Bench front and Rear Seat, because it is perfect for my needs, it sucks on gas mileage, it is a beast to park, and I've dragged in underground parking more than I care to admit. but it is perfect for me, my BB isn't a fancy sport car, I use it for work, and I use it for play, my play does not consist of websurfing, I have 2 laptops in said truck to do that, my play is not 3D games, my play is keeping in contact with friends and family while I travel 2-3 weeks out of every month, my play is sharing pictures of stupid things I see and receiving them as well from other like minded people.

    The BB is perfect for that. I do hate that people seem to think there should only be 1 device/OS, going back to Cars
    Should Honda/Ford/GM/Toyota all merge? create one Car to rule them all? **** NO, same with the mobile phone market, if I had to go to a touch screen smartphone, I'd be getting a Dumb phone and a netbook pretty dang fast.

    I do Hope that RIM has more to offer from OS 6 then the nay sayers expect, we know what Apple is bringing to the table, hardly a revolutionary OS, I do hope OS 6 will be considered revolutionary as apposed to Evolutionary for RIM and BB.

    if NOT, I really hope RIM decides to turn the Storm line into a consumer phone, keep the Bold line with current hardware, focusing on battery life and connectivity, but go out and put all these crazy features numbers people want to see in a smartphone into the Storm 3, who cares about battery life, give them expandable battery options, give them 2GB of onboard addressable memory and 2 SD card slots, make it shiny.
    Just don't wreck my workphone!
    06-09-10 08:01 AM
  25. SlimGuy78's Avatar
    you're already on AT&T so you know the service is crap by default might as well make the jump. I know if i was on at&t no way i'd own a bb what's the point service is crappy might as well get the baddest phone on the market the iphone.
    No doubt ! and i will be making that leap , you only live once ! lol
    06-09-10 08:21 AM
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