[nikosg21]

I must be stupid but how is the same phone ? New Os ..new cpu...new screen resolution , gpu ..open gl ...hd recording ...I mean damn wtf does rim need to do ...

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[dfairlite]

I see your point, then of course it's more than obvious to get the Torch 2. But still you talk about new internals... It's kinda like a frankestein phone... a new cpu.. but same old stuff to go along with it.
Hopefully I'm wrong and the torch 2 proves to be a huge improvement over the original torch, but I hardly doubt that.

I don't see many ways the torch 1 can be improved. Its a solid, amazing device. No freezing, no lag, good browsing, bb email, what more do people want? NFC chip? Its in the specs, faster processor? In the specs. Newer OS? In the specs. What the **** do people want from rim!?!?!?

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[Rickroller]

I must be stupid but how is the same phone ? New Os ..new cpu...new screen resolution , gpu ..open gl ...hd recording ...I mean damn wtf does rim need to do ...

New OS, faster cpu, better screen rez..but smaller battery? Sure..if the software is optimized for it..it might work out..but even the T1's battery wasn't outstanding (usage dependant of course).

What the **** do people want from rim!?!?!?

Here's the way I see it. RIM at one point was setting the bar, now it seems they're trying to meet it. For long time BB users..that's hard to swallow. Some people are getting tired of everyone else's phone being "better" in certain aspects and have been waiting for RIM to, once again, set the bar. IF the iPhone comes out BEFORE the T2 with dual core specs, and all kinds of whizzy hardware..then this phone will again look like the ugly cousin at the ball.

Will it be a good phone? Absolutely. Will it be comparable to the dual core phones running Flash, powering netbooks, utilizing 1080p recording? No..it won't. Once again (at least to tech pundits and keyboard warriors), the T2 and S3 will be the proverbial "bridesmaids"..never the "bride".

[dfairlite]

I again have to pose the question from here: What are dual-core processors without better battery life? | PhoneDog

I can't help but agree with this. I would rather have a good phone that can actually perform tasks all day than a phone that can do most of those tasks and more that only lasts 4.5 hours. May as well carry a laptop around, there are many that have better battery life than these phones that are coming out.

Here is what I see coming: TABLETS, they'll replace these android and iphone devices because they can fit a huge a$$ battery in them to power all the bells and whistles. Everyone will either use a BT headset to receive calls from their tablet or also carry a phone, in which case a bb will win out due to the extreme versatility and battery life. I could be way off base, but it just seems to me that the people who buy androids and iphones don't buy it because its a communication device, they buy because its an entertainment device and when that's your motivation, what's the point of having it so small? Visuals can only look so good on that small screen.
JMO

Also, has jobs changed his tune on adobe products? If not take flash off the list.
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[Titaniumedge]

I see your point, then of course it's more than obvious to get the Torch 2. But still you talk about new internals... It's kinda like a frankestein phone... a new cpu.. but same old stuff to go along with it.
Hopefully I'm wrong and the torch 2 proves to be a huge improvement over the original torch, but I hardly doubt that.

What do you expect? RIM can't have a model that they are going to refresh and improve if they do all of the upgrades all at once it kind of defeats the purpose of upgrading the product.

And as far as everyone who is complaining about no dual core processor you really should remember that the Blackberry exists for communication more than entertainment. I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to have dual core but if RIM focuses a lot more on entertainment and starts letting the communication and security slide then they will be in hot water with the Blackberry addicts. I think the Blackberry still offers a unique smartphone experience where as all of the other smartphones are giving you the same experience in a different package and OS but they are still just like one another IMO.

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[Titaniumedge]

Also, has jobs changed his tune on adobe products? If not take flash off the list.
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Good point the last I heard Adobe wouldn't bend over far enough for king Jobs to kiss his feet so I don't think the hardware has anything to do with FLASH content. I do hope that BB's will have flash in the future but then again it might be more of a burden for us when we're trying to surf the net and having to let 4 and 5 flash ads load. I don't know what the future will hold for mobile flash but I'm kind of expecting that it won't be integrated in a purposeful way in the next year but who knows I'm definitely not an expert.

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[Rickroller]

I again have to pose the question from here: What are dual-core processors without better battery life? | PhoneDog

I can't help but agree with this.

Hate to burst your bubble..but this article was written before any specs had been released of phones running dual core. Look at the Moto Atrix:

Motorola ATRIX - Full phone specifications

It's running a 1930 mAh battery. Compare that to the T2's supposed 1230 mAh. Not to mention..the article fails to mention how much better battery optimization will be with the newer chip technology (this will also apply to the T2 as well), and how much more efficient battery will be due to the fact that you'll only be drawing on the extra power when needed from the second core..which will lesson the draw from the first. Kind of like having Overdrive in your vehicle when on the highway. Less RPM's thus less fuel consumption.

[Rickroller]

Good point the last I heard Adobe wouldn't bend over far enough for king Jobs to kiss his feet so I don't think the hardware has anything to do with FLASH content. I do hope that BB's will have flash in the future but then again it might be more of a burden for us when we're trying to surf the net and having to let 4 and 5 flash ads load. I don't know what the future will hold for mobile flash but I'm kind of expecting that it won't be integrated in a purposeful way in the next year but who knows I'm definitely not an expert.

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Flash loads and runs great on my HTC. Whether or not ol' Stevo implements it or not is another question..but i guess iPhone lovers have Skyfire available in their appworld..which is a lite flash alternative. BB users still have none.

[Titaniumedge]

Flash loads and runs great on my HTC. Whether or not ol' Stevo implements it or not is another question..but i guess iPhone lovers have Skyfire available in their appworld..which is a lite flash alternative. BB users still have none.

Ok good point I should have been specific. I don't think FLASH will be integrated into BBOS6 properly this year. I half expect them to try because if they start using the faster CPU and use it properly load time will be diminished, but only time will tell.

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[Rickroller]

Ok good point I should have been specific. I don't think FLASH will be integrated into BBOS6 properly this year. I half expect them to try because if they start using the faster CPU and use it properly load time will be diminished, but only time will tell.

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Yea..i'm hoping they implement some form of it with 6.1 (i know it's not the be all and end all..but it is a nice feature still)..although I haven't heard any mention of it yet..but as you said..only time will tell.

[dfairlite]

That's great if they can fit a bigger battery in, but the torch is limited by its form factor. You also have to take into account how often youve been using the 1ghz processor to its full capability? What makes anyone think they need a dual core processor in a phone, especially a bb. Bb's aren't media devices, they are a communication device with some media capability. Iphone and android are opposite. Not that either is better, just customized for different folks.

As for bb setting the bar, they still are in their respective way, communication. You WON'T find a device better for communication anywhere else. Android junkies are just hoping bb will give them all the bells and whistles so they can feel justified in switching to the superior communication device. They can't handle their friend saying their androids specs, because that's what they rely on. (Not to group all users together, but just generalizing those android users I know). Have a friend send an email to both of you at the same time and see who gets it first, bb wins every time I've tried. So much for that 1ghz processor being faster (yes I know its not due to the actual phone, by this point hopefully you understand my intentions)

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[Titaniumedge]

That's great if they can fit a bigger battery in, but the torch is limited by its form factor. You also have to take into account how often youve been using the 1ghz processor to its full capability? What makes anyone think they need a dual core processor in a phone, especially a bb. Bb's aren't media devices, they are a communication device with some media capability. Iphone and android are opposite. Not that either is better, just customized for different folks.

As for bb setting the bar, they still are in their respective way, communication. You WON'T find a device better for communication anywhere else. Android junkies are just hoping bb will give them all the bells and whistles so they can feel justified in switching to the superior communication device. They can't handle their friend saying their androids specs, because that's what they rely on. (Not to group all users together, but just generalizing those android users I know). Have a friend send an email to both of you at the same time and see who gets it first, bb wins every time I've tried. So much for that 1ghz processor being faster (yes I know its not due to the actual phone, by this point hopefully you understand my intentions)

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I see what your saying is basically if it's not broken don't fix it. I agree to a point but RIM still needs to keep up with the performance of BB's or their consumer market is going to die out as more and more of these trendy type of people are looking for a phone and read through all the different specs. The only reason a lot of people use iphone is because it's "cool", personally I love my touch as my media device but I will not own a phone that only has touch screen input and has absolutely no customization (except wallpapers big whoop). The iphone as a media device is great but the communication side sucks big time.

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[dfairlite]

^^^ I agree rim needs to keep up, but I don't think they need to be at the top of the spec world. RIM needs to market their experience (which they do to an extent) to stay in the game, once people try bb they usually love or hate it (that's how you decide what's right for you). I think RIM needs to pull a Nintendo wii move, drop the price of their units to compete with the higher end units, that's the one place I think they failed with the torch. I think that's all it'll take, they are already cheaper data wise, but unit wise, they do need to come down just a little.

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[Titaniumedge]

Here here on price point. BB's have always been expensive hence why I have a 8530 instead of a bold. And I agree you either love it or hate it once you try a BB I am still waiting to see how RIM will convince everyone to give them a chance I really hope they do.

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[dfairlite]

One more thing about dual core processors. I understand that as technology advances and programming becomes more complex we may require these sorts of upgrades, however, can anyone tell me of an app that would require anywhere near a 1.5ghz dual core processor? I don't see anyone using maya on their phone, or photoshop, or turbocad, or anything like that. what's the point of having a 1.5Ghz dual core processor in a phone, in 2011? I would honestly prefer that my device last a week with no charging with the 1900mah battery rather than 6 hours just so that one time a year i can do something nuts that requires the huge processor. JMO.

[Titaniumedge]

Very true dfairlite if RIM can get the 1.2Ghz processor to run and run efficiently that will probably be enough for years worth of BB's.

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[Rickroller]

That's great if they can fit a bigger battery in, but the torch is limited by its form factor. You also have to take into account how often youve been using the 1ghz processor to its full capability? What makes anyone think they need a dual core processor in a phone, especially a bb. Bb's aren't media devices, they are a communication device with some media capability.
As for bb setting the bar, they still are in their respective way, communication. You WON'T find a device better for communication anywhere else. Have a friend send an email to both of you at the same time and see who gets it first, bb wins every time I've tried. So much for that 1ghz processor being faster (yes I know its not due to the actual phone, by this point hopefully you understand my intentions)

Define your view on communication. As far as I understand..communication via cell phones is alot more than just email..so to say BB's are better communicators simply due to email is a little narrow minded. And yes..I have tried email side by side with my Torch and my HTC. Yes..the Torch almost always came in first..but I think I can handle a minute or two delay on an email (and that's with native email..you can achieve push email with some of the paid email apps or with Gmail..neither of which I use). As far as texting and IM'ing go..the only difference your going to find is in user preference. All platforms do that equally as well (carrier dependant of course).

EDIT: And yes..the T1 is limited to battery size due to it's size..but who says the T2 needs to be? I'm sure most would willingly add a few mm's here and there for a larger battery size. The number of battery life posts i've read in this forum would say most would tend to agree with me.

One more thing about dual core processors. I understand that as technology advances and programming becomes more complex we may require these sorts of upgrades, however, can anyone tell me of an app that would require anywhere near a 1.5ghz dual core processor? I don't see anyone using maya on their phone, or photoshop, or turbocad, or anything like that. what's the point of having a 1.5Ghz dual core processor in a phone, in 2011? I would honestly prefer that my device last a week with no charging with the 1900mah battery rather than 6 hours just so that one time a year i can do something nuts that requires the huge processor. JMO.

The whole point with bigger and better processors is it allows devs to create bigger and more in depth apps, because now THEY CAN. That's the whole point with technology progression..just because you don't see the capabilities of something now doesnt mean it can't be useful in the future.

[dfairlite]

I'm not saying its not good to have a better processor, however I am saying that the development needs to catch up before it makes, as some say, "blackberries a pos". As it stands right now I've yet to see an app (not a game) that requires a 1.2ghz processor.

Communication, bbm, twitter, facebook, email, pin-pin, etc... Rim has proven the innovator in all these areas (bbm was the first of its kind and no one has had the success of replicating) social feeds as far as I know is (or at least at the time of release) one of a kind for a mobile phone. And as far as bb's being the best comm. Device here's my thoughts; any smartphone can make calls and IM via sms gmail, hotmail etc... So what does this leave? Email and social networking, social feeds puts BB above, and the speed of push email with the new rendering puts BB ahead as well. And never underestimate the keyboard

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[Rickroller]

Rim has proven the innovator in all these areas (bbm was the first of its kind and no one has had the success of replicating) social feeds as far as I know is (or at least at the time of release) one of a kind for a mobile phone.

Actually..HTC had Friend Stream out about 6 months before Social Feeds..and I'd be surprised if there wasn't something out even prior to that.

HTC enhances Sense with Leap and Friend Stream (updated with video) -- Engadget

And as far as BBM goes..I do think they were the first to come up with something like that..but there are a few imitators now. I use Whatsapp..and it's virtually identical to BBM..except it's cross platform. Delivery/Read, Voice Notes, Pics, and Video sharing, instantaneous, and works off of data and not SMS. To me it's even better than BBM simply because i can chat with iPhone users, BB users, and Android users. Only thing it doesnt have is group chat.

And I agree with most of what your saying. The new processor is gonna hardly make the T2 a POS..but IF all the other phones (including i5) come out with dual cores..then it's still going to "look" outdated in comparison..that is all.

[Titaniumedge]

I'm not saying its not good to have a better processor, however I am saying that the development needs to catch up before it makes, as some say, "blackberries a pos". As it stands right now I've yet to see an app (not a game) that requires a 1.2ghz processor.

Communication, bbm, twitter, facebook, email, pin-pin, etc... Rim has proven the innovator in all these areas (bbm was the first of its kind and no one has had the success of replicating) social feeds as far as I know is (or at least at the time of release) one of a kind for a mobile phone. And as far as bb's being the best comm. Device here's my thoughts; any smartphone can make calls and IM via sms gmail, hotmail etc... So what does this leave? Email and social networking, social feeds puts BB above, and the speed of push email with the new rendering puts BB ahead as well. And never underestimate the keyboard

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You're very right in saying no one has matched BBM many have tried no one has succeeded. However from what I've seen the new Windows mobile 7 integrates all social feeds together. I would honestly love to have the functionality of the Blackberry and still be able to play say Angry birds on my phone during downtime. I know a lot of people say "just go get a pre!" But seriously have you ever tried to type on the stupid little keyboard? I'm a big guy and my thumbs barely fit in the space alotted for the keyboard let alone be able to type accurately. I love the fact that BB has finally caught up with a webkit OS and can't wait to see what developers come out with in the near future and with a 1.2Ghz processor I think there can be a whole new app market developed very successfully.

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[JoBudden]

I say this every time people start to negative opinions..

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT MOVE TO ANOTHER DEVICE..

You are not forced to buy any blackberry product.. You have options.
So to give more room for those interested in being offered explore your options..

Theres no point of any negative posts period your post isn't going to change the phone.. Besides I don't think any cell phone company could ever satisfy any of you that's just sad.. Its not the end of the world if a company doesn't provide you something you think they should..

God forbid they make an announcement about something.. You'll complain until it comes out. Then when it comes out you will complain some more..

Please please move to another platform that is more suited for you so you don't have to clog up the forums with rants that people who like the phone have to look at

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[Rickroller]

God forbid they make an announcement about something.. You'll complain until it comes out. Then when it comes out you will complain some more..

You must be new to "teh interwebz"

Any forum for any products (car, pc, phone) are filled with "rants and raves". Tis the nature of the beast lol.

[JoBudden]

You must be new to "teh interwebz"

Any forum for any products (car, pc, phone) are filled with "rants and raves". Tis the nature of the beast lol.

I'm just saying.. Nothing is ever good enough for people.. What it should be about is focusing on what it is.. Not what it isn't... I understand it doesn't have a duel core processor I understand it doesn't have a battery the size of your lap-top's I understand that it doesn't already have the QNX os that people want.. I also understand why.. I enjoy my blackberry I really don't see the point in people trying to persuade you not to like something

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[dfairlite]

You're very right in saying no one has matched BBM many have tried no one has succeeded. However from what I've seen the new Windows mobile 7 integrates all social feeds together. I would honestly love to have the functionality of the Blackberry and still be able to play say Angry birds on my phone during downtime. I know a lot of people say "just go get a pre!" But seriously have you ever tried to type on the stupid little keyboard? I'm a big guy and my thumbs barely fit in the space alotted for the keyboard let alone be able to type accurately. I love the fact that BB has finally caught up with a webkit OS and can't wait to see what developers come out with in the near future and with a 1.2Ghz processor I think there can be a whole new app market developed very successfully.

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I will agree 100% with that post, I would love to play angry birds as well! I would never say that android devices suck, just different strokes for different folks. Some people use media a lot on their phone, I don't, that's why we have a marketplace!

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[escobar973]

Even though a good majority of ppl here love their BB's... What's the problem with people wanting/expecting a little more from RIM, even if their opioniated about it.... It's not always about praising with a blind eye, you should be able to objective too. I think it's easy to say a BB is no longer for the corporate user... RIM if they haven't yet, should understand that.

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