[madlaw1071]

The Buzz: Is RIM a screaming bargain or the next Palm? - Aug. 23, 2010

[ibcop]

Look how many other stories are posted about the Torch. I doubt the Torch alone can be blamed on the share loss. You have to admit it's not the next best thing, but it does a good job none the less.

Another words, it's not a Cadillac, but it's not a Pinto either.

[xandermac]

That's not dumping on RIM. That's reporting the news. RIM will recover.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[madlaw1071]

Look how many other stories are posted about the Torch. I doubt the Torch alone can be blamed on the share loss. You have to admit it's not the next best thing, but it does a good job none the less.

Another words, it's not a Cadillac, but it's not a Pinto either.

The article points to the Saudi Arabia dispute as well. With respect to the Torch I think RIM built up expectations that it knew or should have known it couldn't meet with this phone. Their whole marketing campaign is based on this "triple axle" theme which is absurd. Even the kindest reviews have called the Torch and OS6 evolutionary not revolutionary. Not a single review I have read believes this phone will pull in Android or iPhone users and the market is reacting accordingly.

[Lalanik5]

Even the kindest reviews have called the Torch and OS6 evolutionary not revolutionary.

I never understood why that's a bad thing.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[madlaw1071]

I never understood why that's a bad thing.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Because the competition is revolutionary not evolutionary.

[jeffreii]

Because the competition is revolutionary not evolutionary.

And your goal of posting all bad news to our attention is repetitive, not contributory (as usual).

It's still - at the time of this posting - the #1 selling phone on Amazon.com

Amazon.com Cell Phones & Service Bestsellers: The most popular items on Amazon.com (Updated hourly)

I think I'm going to post this list of positive threads in every new post madlaw creates lol:

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/lovin-so-far-518608/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/af...st-say-518627/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/tr...-torch-518144/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/best-bb-date-517725/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/my...review-517913/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/lo...-favor-517163/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/fi...-owner-517092/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/my...ssions-516492/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/tw...-torch-517005/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/fi...-s-use-516065/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ju...33/index2.html

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ha...h-user-515410/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/re...-lover-514676/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/to...-sweet-515047/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/so...y-good-515467/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ta...9800-a-514358/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/so-far-515426/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/sa...-owner-515308/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/i-...mbs-up-515411/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/i-...-torch-515004/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/fo...-torch-514767/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ev...issues-513895/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/th...b-newb-514208/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ge...-torch-514229/

http://forums.crackberry.com/f209/ho...wesome-512791/

[xandermac]

How so? What revolutoions are the competition responsible for? The only revolutionary companies were palm (the iPhone is a direct ripoff of the treo) and RIM with their email system. I'd like to hear these revolutions you seem to like so much.

Because the competition is revolutionary not evolutionary.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Lalanik5]

Because the competition is revolutionary not evolutionary.

But at the same time, why completely undo what made them so successful for so long?
It's amazing how much time people have on their hands to worry about their screen resolution, or processing power, or what type of widgets the phone can run. That seems to cater to highschoolers needing something to kill time will they're bored sitting in class.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[xandermac]

Precisely, they're all toys nowadays anyway. the only company that's actually doing anything differently lately is palm and their web OS. Every other company is still building on the same old tired icon driven interface with the exact same "task" metaphors that palm invented in the first place. Maybe it's time for them all to try innovating a little. But as long as they cater to the lowest demonitor (simple seems to be the name of the game lately) we'll just be stuck with dumbed down toys and lots of fart apps. Who really give a **** anymore? They're all the damn same. Innovation is completely lost on this market which explains why an actual advancement like webOS can fail so dramatically. If it's not a kids plaything no one could give a toss. We won't see any major breakthroughs because we accept the status quo from them all.

Apple is the worst offender IMO. No actual multitasking, no interapp operability, no customization, no choice!! Yet we accept this as the benchmark? The pinnacle? What is wrong with us!

So to me, because they're all the same I'll go with reliability, efficiency and interoperability and use a blackberry. And I can hold it however I like as a bonus.

I'll leave the toys to the boys.

But at the same time, why completely undo what made them so successful for so long?
It's amazing how much time people have on their hands to worry about their screen resolution, or processing power, or what type of widgets the phone can run. That seems to cater to highschoolers needing something to kill time will they're bored sitting in class.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[MOTH477]

That's not dumping on RIM. That's reporting the news. RIM will recover.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

With Android increasing their market share and Win 7 about to come and steal some from IPhone and RIM, it's highly unlikely RIM shares will be back to where they were a year ago. Back in August 09, RIMM was being quoted at over $70 per share. Today I noticed they are down to $47. RIMM tends to decline between OCT & DEC the jump back up after new devices are released. Unfortunately, this year the TORCH does not seem to be working for RIM. The question is how low will the stock go. Some guys on thestreet.com have been advising people to dump RIMM. So saying that they will recover might be a little bit too optimistic. I think the operative word in this case would be stabilize.

[collide.six]

Now that the Torch and OS6 has been out awhile it officially confirms that RIM can't get it right when it comes to touch screen phones and they really seem to be a one trick pony. They've only been successful when it comes to phones with low res screens, physical keyboards and track wheels or track pads. Stuff they've basically been doing for 10+ years. Their ancient java OS holding them down like a 300lb jockey in a horse race. They need to ditch it and start over with something brand new or they may become the AOL of the smartphone industry.

[That70sGAdawg]

Who watches CNN unless stranded in an airport or something?? They just repeat the Democratic party talking points all day long...

[berrygoodphone1]

Apple has done a "great" job of monopolizing the consumer market with public relations fanfare.

Ok, so BB is a generation behind other smartphones, but a generation ahead to other BBs...remember whe apple introduced phones with no MMS capabilities? BTW this was in the 21st century lol.

I'm very curious to see how much apple has spent to cover up their recent blunder with the i4...yes, a phone dropping calls constantly. Mind you, this happened also with the 3gs (I owned one before returning to the BB community.)

ALSO (lol), a minor yet almost non-covered story was the fact that apple's engineers knew about the reception problem almost a year before the phone came out (Report Claims Apple Knew About iPhone 4 Antenna Problems; Apple Denies It; Has No Plans To Recall iPhone 4 - iPhone Hacks)

The Torch is an awesome phone, COMPARED to other blackberries. Only time will show if RIM will continue its successfull BB cell phonesN compared to a single line of iphones. (No, I'm not bashing apple-after all, I owned an iphone for nearly 2.5 years lol)

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[madlaw1071]

Who watches CNN unless stranded in an airport or something?? They just repeat the Democratic party talking points all day long...

On that point, we can agree

[madlaw1071]

With Android increasing their market share and Win 7 about to come and steal some from IPhone and RIM, it's highly unlikely RIM shares will be back to where they were a year ago. Back in August 09, RIMM was being quoted at over $70 per share. Today I noticed they are down to $47. RIMM tends to decline between OCT & DEC the jump back up after new devices are released. Unfortunately, this year the TORCH does not seem to be working for RIM. The question is how low will the stock go. Some guys on thestreet.com have been advising people to dump RIMM. So saying that they will recover might be a little bit too optimistic. I think the operative word in this case would be stabilize.

I think they are ripe for a takeover or merger. The writing is on the wall.

[madlaw1071]

How so? What revolutoions are the competition responsible for? The only revolutionary companies were palm (the iPhone is a direct ripoff of the treo) and RIM with their email system. I'd like to hear these revolutions you seem to like so much.



Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

The iPhone is rip off of the treo? Please pass the Kool Aid

[katiepea]

There really isn't much of an argument here, while people can make the point that the torch saw sales in the likes of other android phones, and that may be accurate, android is activiting 200,000+ phones a day, and a TON of those are new subscribers, RIM is bringing close to 0 new subscribers and also losing a ton of their current ones. with numbers projecting 40% + of current subscribers bailing within the next 12 months ,how can you NOT ask the question "is RIM in trouble" because love or hate RIM, they're not operating like they used to. and if you're not asking yourself that, then you're not doing yourself or them any favors.

palm thought they were untouchable, and for the longest time pretended nothing was wrong. their forums were full of people refusing to believe that there may possibly be an issue, and like a ton of bricks, reality hit. in this business you can go from the top to the bottom quicker than the titanic and honestly, i think android may be RIM's iceburg. between iphone or blackberry i choose blackberry. i was a long long long supporter of RIM, and i even bought a torch. but for my daily use, android is for me, it simply outperforms the BB in every single daily use, messaging, emails, corporate use, and yes, even my battery life gets about 36+ hours on hsdpa.

don't make the mistake of turning this into a war of what's best. ask yourself 'is rim really giving us a $200 experience here with this phone" because at the same price point, there are other phones with 2x's the specs. and i think thats where the trouble lies, sometimes you have to pull out all the stops to compete. what part of the torch screams 'compete'? what does this phone do that others don't? because from my usage of it, not only does it not compete with a nexus one, evo, ANY iphone model, droid etc..i don't think it competes with previous blackberry models. my 9000 doesn't ever get a spinning clock, during my time with the torch i saw it happen on fresh reboots, just scrolling through contacts. scrolling through emails once even caused a random reboot, on the FIRST day of owning the device. you just can't hide facts like that. i would rather use my 9000 if i had to choose between the torch or it. i don't think bb6 is an upgrade at all, sure it's a nice theme, but it slows down too much. bb6 is simply asking too much of a java os. people have compared RIM's OS to a racecar that has been wrecked and fixed with bandaids, and i think the bandaids are starting to come off now.

[xandermac]

That's pretty much what I expected from someone who had obviously only followed the mobile market since 2007. Good job. But yes, go do a little research and you'll see even jobs credited the treo as one inspiration for the iPhone. All the way down to the vibrate switch. ****, the phone app was an exact clone of the treo. Not that you'd know this.

So again, what are these revolutions you speak of? Do you have an actual answer?

The iPhone is rip off of the treo? Please pass the Kool Aid

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[xandermac]

Yeah, that's what I thought. Look, we've all dealt with people like you before and while it's unfortunate that you have to come here to get the attention you crave in a negative way I won't humor you anymore. Enjoy your thread, I hope you make lots of friends and build that self esteem.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[clifford938]

I agree, it's not a super charged turbo phone, but it does whats its supposed to. And it's not like its so slow like a pre 1999 phone. Reality speaking

[Flurrycat]

Precisely, they're all toys nowadays anyway. the only company that's actually doing anything differently lately is palm and their web OS.

Have you used WebOS? The OS has to be completely patched to even function like a normal smartphone. Without it, you get obnoxious notifications in your ear while on calls that your callers can hear, email that doesn't rotate to landscape, your sent mail font is so large the legally blind can read it, etc. I could go on and on. Sure, Palm went out on a limb, and that counts as "doing something differently", but they forgot what made them great in the first place. They started out as a PIM and now the basic PIM functions are awful, and the phone functions are sub-par also. Yeah, some of the app integrations are great, but if I need a separate device just to make phone calls and send email, why do I need the Pre? Different is not always better.

[jeffreii]

There really isn't much of an argument here, while people can make the point that the torch saw sales in the likes of other android phones, and that may be accurate, android is activiting 200,000+ phones a day, and a TON of those are new subscribers, RIM is bringing close to 0 new subscribers and also losing a ton of their current ones. with numbers projecting 40% + of current subscribers bailing within the next 12 months ,how can you NOT ask the question "is RIM in trouble" because love or hate RIM, they're not operating like they used to. and if you're not asking yourself that, then you're not doing yourself or them any favors.

palm thought they were untouchable, and for the longest time pretended nothing was wrong. their forums were full of people refusing to believe that there may possibly be an issue, and like a ton of bricks, reality hit. in this business you can go from the top to the bottom quicker than the titanic and honestly, i think android may be RIM's iceburg. between iphone or blackberry i choose blackberry. i was a long long long supporter of RIM, and i even bought a torch. but for my daily use, android is for me, it simply outperforms the BB in every single daily use, messaging, emails, corporate use, and yes, even my battery life gets about 36+ hours on hsdpa.

don't make the mistake of turning this into a war of what's best. ask yourself 'is rim really giving us a $200 experience here with this phone" because at the same price point, there are other phones with 2x's the specs. and i think thats where the trouble lies, sometimes you have to pull out all the stops to compete. what part of the torch screams 'compete'? what does this phone do that others don't? because from my usage of it, not only does it not compete with a nexus one, evo, ANY iphone model, droid etc..i don't think it competes with previous blackberry models. my 9000 doesn't ever get a spinning clock, during my time with the torch i saw it happen on fresh reboots, just scrolling through contacts. scrolling through emails once even caused a random reboot, on the FIRST day of owning the device. you just can't hide facts like that. i would rather use my 9000 if i had to choose between the torch or it. i don't think bb6 is an upgrade at all, sure it's a nice theme, but it slows down too much. bb6 is simply asking too much of a java os. people have compared RIM's OS to a racecar that has been wrecked and fixed with bandaids, and i think the bandaids are starting to come off now.

Seriously you say the same thing in every thread.

I'm sorry your first few hours on a brand new phone and form factor weren't perfect. The hourglass you keep referring to doesn't happen to most people here...some few got bad units or needed to do a wipe and now they are happy.

To clarify:

I have not seen the hourglass in DAYS.

I have not ONCE in 11 days of owning my Torch had a random reboot.

I am a HUGE fan of my 9000...but this phone is better in SO many ways I would never consider going back.

I remember months ago when you gave up on RIM...why did you even go try a Torch? You WANTED to hate it from the beginning and you know it.

You keep referring to the specs - yes they are not equal to the latest Droids and iPhone4. However, the performance is still GOOD. Not amazing, but quite good. There are many reasons other than hardware specs on paper that people love BlackBerry's and you should certainly know that.

Please stop spending time on these forums trying to convince yourself and others that the Torch sucks and RIM is doomed. It's getting oldddddd.

[pattste]

Because the competition is revolutionary not evolutionary.

Yes. iOS4 is quite the revolution. A quick look at this page shows some of the new features:

Apple - iPhone - New features in the iOS 4 Software Update.

- Multitasking (sort of)
- Folders
- Better mail, including a unified inbox!
- Create playlists right from your phone
- Homescreen wallpaper

I'm sure BlackBerry users are envious.

[muse480]

The Buzz: Is RIM a screaming bargain or the next Palm? - Aug. 23, 2010

As much as I really, really like my Torch-admittedly I don't love it. I am still not sure that RIM truly gets it. They are stuck and should separate the brand into 2 divisions...corporate and play and discontinue a few models. Instead of the Torch it should have been called the 9700 bonus. I get the feeling there are 2 business plans at war w/RIM, 1)we'll lose business customers if we compete w/Droid or Iphone or 2) we'll lose everyday Joe if we don't compete w/Droid or Iphone. Looks like they are losing both, quickly. I'd like to see the votes on how many people have the Torch in anticipation of what it will become in a few months w/hybrids, unadulterated creativity for apps and not necessarily what it can do now. Are they going to **** everyone off and produce the T2 by next Spring with crazy upgrades or grant everyones wish and allow some real app-play.