1. Fruzion's Avatar
    After lurking for a while I've noticed that about 50% of the themes here are plagiarized (yes, that is spelled correctly), specifically the icons. Almost 90% of the mac themes have at least some icons taken from various artists from w w w . macthemes2 . n e t (specifically the iPhone themes board), most commonly Louie Mantia (w w w . mantia . m e ) or Jonas Rask (w w w . jonasraskdesign . c o m ).

    *Please note that not all of their work is hosted on those websites and a great deal was exclusively released at MacThemes.*

    Now for free themes it doesn't really bother me that much, all you need to do is give the artist credit (assuming they have allowed the redistribution of their work, which is another topic), but I have seen several pay themes here at the store, most prominently "Real iBerry Blocks" use work from other artists. That is 100% illegal and opens up not only crackberry itself to lawsuits from the original artists but the publishers as well for profits made and damages, which I'm assuming for some themes could be quite the hefty sum.

    So please, please, please, don't plagiarize. If necessary I will contact these artists directly (I know a few personally, and most professionally) but I really hope it won't come to that.

    If you guys need any further evidence or proof I will be happy to search around for original artists and work.

    And if this is in the wrong thread feel free to move it.

    P.S. sorry for the spacing in the URLs, I don't have a high enough post count to post links
    11-21-09 01:15 PM
  2. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    gotta love the do-gooders
    11-21-09 07:18 PM
  3. kolonji's Avatar
    gotta love the do-gooders
    not really
    11-21-09 07:19 PM
  4. jlsparks's Avatar
    Stupid question: isn't the iPhone "mail" icon, for example, just a static icon created by AAPL? If so, then the artists whom you seek to protect simply "stole" proprietary, trademarked, copywritten material from AAPL? Right? Are their themes copywritten or registered with the trademark office? No. Have they done anything unique or out of the ordinary in emulating the iPhones generic, static icons? No. So, therefore, a BB theme developer doing the *exact same thing* is "plagiarizing" how?
    11-21-09 07:32 PM
  5. jeremyblaze's Avatar
    Stupid question: isn't the iPhone "mail" icon, for example, just a static icon created by AAPL? If so, then the artists whom you seek to protect simply "stole" proprietary, trademarked, copywritten material from AAPL? Right? Are their themes copywritten or registered with the trademark office? No. Have they done anything unique or out of the ordinary in emulating the iPhones generic, static icons? No. So, therefore, a BB theme developer doing the *exact same thing* is "plagiarizing" how?

    yes, hence all the Palm Pre themes being removed from most sites at Palm's legal request. It is only a matter of time before Apple requests the same thing.

    On the other hand, IF the artist says it is MAC/iPhone inspired, and does not make a duplicate, it could fly. In many cases, it still wouldn't. And the op makes a good point for CB.com, which I have thought of before when developing 'inspired by' themes for Star Trek and others, that selling them would probably be illegal, but by CB.com having them, it opens them up too.

    Do I agree that this is 'right' - absolutely not. But it is an interesting legal question.
    Last edited by jeremyblaze; 11-22-09 at 12:41 AM. Reason: i'm an ***** lol
    11-21-09 10:17 PM
  6. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    eh, I amjured my copyright class in law school Strictly speaking, anything that's a modification of copyrighted stuff would be breach of that copyright (except parody). But c'mon, these kids are making a couple of bucks a theme. If Apple or M$ or whoever, making $billions/year came swooping in here telling everybody they'd sue 'em if they copied their stuff... well.. it would make those companies about as popular as the RIAA is right now.

    However, the lawyers they hire to harass the bit-players who do infringe copyrights are usually not all that up to snuff on their PR, so it does happen.
    11-22-09 12:34 AM
  7. jeremyblaze's Avatar
    eh, I amjured my copyright class in law school Strictly speaking, anything that's a modification of copyrighted stuff would be breach of that copyright (except parody). But c'mon, these kids are making a couple of bucks a theme. If Apple or M$ or whoever, making $billions/year came swooping in here telling everybody they'd sue 'em if they copied their stuff... well.. it would make those companies about as popular as the RIAA is right now.

    However, the lawyers they hire to harass the bit-players who do infringe copyrights are usually not all that up to snuff on their PR, so it does happen.
    apple just told a couple people that had evidence of cigarette smoke residue inside their macs that AppleCare didn't cover any repair, due to some chemical in the residue being toxic. Apple doesn't really seem to care too much about PR. I guess they figure most of the blogs and media are on their side anyway.

    Apple Denying Support to Smokers? - Smokers - Gizmodo
    11-22-09 12:40 AM
  8. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    just sue 'em in small claims. Not that hard.
    11-22-09 12:59 AM
  9. SGTSTEW75's Avatar
    BLAH !!!! BLAH!!!!! BLAH!!!! Themers UNITE LETS STEAL EVERYBODIES S*&T AND Profit LMAO........... Who cares man its fun to make themes let us be DUDE!!!!!!

    @ Fruzion
    CrackBerry User
    Carrier: Sprint/Nextel
    11-22-09 10:11 AM
  10. Fruzion's Avatar
    BLAH !!!! BLAH!!!!! BLAH!!!! Themers UNITE LETS STEAL EVERYBODIES S*&T AND Profit LMAO........... Who cares man its fun to make themes let us be DUDE!!!!!!

    @ Fruzion
    CrackBerry User
    Carrier: Sprint/Nextel
    Really? I'm sure the original artists care.

    Look, the whole people taking apple copyrighted icons doesn't bother me as much, partly because it's apple, they have legal teams if they feel threatened and the money to back it up. Plus it's not big deal if some guy makes a couple bucks off their stuff.

    But it's a completely different story for the freelance artists who out of their kindness decided to do something nice and free for everyone and release high quality and brilliant icons that take a lot of time. For someone to profit off their work is just straight up wrong and kind of a d0uchebag move. Plus these are normal people like us, not some corporation with 35 billion in the bank. They need the money as much as you and I do, and these guys are essentially cheating them out of that money. Plus they don't have the money or legal teams apple does so their only option is to probably send a nice letter and hope for the best that the guy isn't a complete j erk (really crackberry? you censor "j erk"?).

    If you really don't care about a guy just like you getting ripped off then I'm sure you will have the same attitude next time someone rips you off, right? I mean, "who cares man, were JUST HAVING FUN ROFL LOL LMAO!!!1111" /thirteen year old girl

    It's straight up not right. If you really have that attitude you have either never done a hard days work or are seriously morally compromised. Either way, you are plain wrong in your thinking.

    And learn how to communicate LOL ROFL LMAO.

    And to respond to the guy who said the original artists are breaching copyright... they aren't modifying anything, it's completely and totally 100% their own work. Sure it might have been influenced by Apple's original icons, but it sure as **** isn't copied or even modified.
    For Example:
    Compare: Original Icons to (sample iphone theme I found).

    Influenced, yes. Modified, changed or copied? Absolutely not.
    "Have they done anything unique or out of the ordinary in emulating the iPhones generic, static icons?" In my opinion, they clearly have.

    And if you want to get really technical, assuming their work was 100% hand crafted by themselves (aka no color picking, gradient copying, etc. from apple's iPhone icons) they could theoretically completely redo an exact replica of the iPhone's icons that they could distribute. They couldn't sell, but they could redistribute.
    Last edited by Fruzion; 11-22-09 at 12:39 PM.
    11-22-09 12:26 PM
  11. SGTSTEW75's Avatar
    "If you really don't care about a guy just like you getting ripped off then I'm sure you will have the same attitude next time someone rips you off, right? I mean, "who cares man, were JUST HAVING FUN ROFL LOL LMAO!!!1111" /thirteen year old girl"

    Okay man relax! You are one of those guys you apperantly was BEAT UP ALL your life and NOW you feel as if you need to do other peoples battles for them....ALSO in referance to your qoute above, HOW ABOUT MORE LIKE A US MARINE CORPS 15 YEAR VETERAN that has been protecting little PRICKS like you. SO I would really appreciate you to just LET IT GO UNCLE RICO and RELAX bro..
    11-22-09 01:39 PM
  12. Topher75's Avatar
    And if you want to get really technical, assuming their work was 100% hand crafted by themselves (aka no color picking, gradient copying, etc. from apple's iPhone icons) they could theoretically completely redo an exact replica of the iPhone's icons that they could distribute. They couldn't sell, but they could redistribute.
    I'm not so sure about this, Frusion. If someone makes an identical copy of something, even if it is done so without sampling or copying, it is still a copy - a replica of another person's expression of an idea. It's not the pixels, paint or any other medium that is protected - it's the graphical representation of an idea.

    I understand what you're doing here, and I think it's got its merits, but would recommend maybe really, really knowing for sure what you're talking about first and understanding the legal arguments that you make as well as those that can be used to defend your claims.

    And I'm all for someone taking a stand, but you seem to have declared yourself the Mobile Art Cop, threatening to "contact these artists directly." Yet, when I checked, you only posted a complaint about one particular theme and even then you got it wrong. You claimed the theme developer didn't credit the artist, but really he just didn't do it to your satisfaction. And when you tried to correct that, you got it wrong and he had to correct you.

    So maybe just relax a little, get your facts in order, and then HELP theme developers, who aren't experts in these things, to better understand the issues rather than try to "bust" them. I bet most would appreciate it, but I'm certain most won't appreciate the confrontational approach you seem to be taking now.
    Last edited by Topher75; 11-22-09 at 02:24 PM.
    11-22-09 01:47 PM
  13. reeneebob's Avatar
    "If you really don't care about a guy just like you getting ripped off then I'm sure you will have the same attitude next time someone rips you off, right? I mean, "who cares man, were JUST HAVING FUN ROFL LOL LMAO!!!1111" /thirteen year old girl"

    Okay man relax! You are one of those guys you apperantly was BEAT UP ALL your life and NOW you feel as if you need to do other peoples battles for them....ALSO in referance to your qoute above, HOW ABOUT MORE LIKE A US MARINE CORPS 15 YEAR VETERAN that has been protecting little PRICKS like you. SO I would really appreciate you to just LET IT GO UNCLE RICO and RELAX bro..
    "Dude". It's called DMCA. Look it up ***.

    Tell it to the content rippers in Second Life getting sued for theft of intellectual property.

    And no offense but anyone who thinks that you can behave like a total **** because you were in the Marines? Loses all respect. So you should be allowed to steal others copyright and intellectual property because you were in the Marines? I'm sure that will fly in court.
    Last edited by reeneebob; 11-22-09 at 02:43 PM.
    11-22-09 02:41 PM
  14. jlsparks's Avatar
    Really? I'm sure the original artists care.

    Look, the whole people taking apple copyrighted icons doesn't bother me as much, partly because it's apple, they have legal teams if they feel threatened and the money to back it up. Plus it's not big deal if some guy makes a couple bucks off their stuff.

    But it's a completely different story for the freelance artists who out of their kindness decided to do something nice and free for everyone and release high quality and brilliant icons that take a lot of time. For someone to profit off their work is just straight up wrong and kind of a d0uchebag move. Plus these are normal people like us, not some corporation with 35 billion in the bank. They need the money as much as you and I do, and these guys are essentially cheating them out of that money. Plus they don't have the money or legal teams apple does so their only option is to probably send a nice letter and hope for the best that the guy isn't a complete j erk (really crackberry? you censor "j erk"?).

    If you really don't care about a guy just like you getting ripped off then I'm sure you will have the same attitude next time someone rips you off, right? I mean, "who cares man, were JUST HAVING FUN ROFL LOL LMAO!!!1111" /thirteen year old girl

    It's straight up not right. If you really have that attitude you have either never done a hard days work or are seriously morally compromised. Either way, you are plain wrong in your thinking.

    And learn how to communicate LOL ROFL LMAO.

    And to respond to the guy who said the original artists are breaching copyright... they aren't modifying anything, it's completely and totally 100% their own work. Sure it might have been influenced by Apple's original icons, but it sure as **** isn't copied or even modified.
    For Example:
    Compare: Original Icons to (sample iphone theme I found).

    Influenced, yes. Modified, changed or copied? Absolutely not.
    "Have they done anything unique or out of the ordinary in emulating the iPhones generic, static icons?" In my opinion, they clearly have.

    And if you want to get really technical, assuming their work was 100% hand crafted by themselves (aka no color picking, gradient copying, etc. from apple's iPhone icons) they could theoretically completely redo an exact replica of the iPhone's icons that they could distribute. They couldn't sell, but they could redistribute.
    I'm afraid you've missed my point. I'm may have been unclear, so let me restate it.

    Why is it acceptable for the theme developers with whom you say you're acquainted to rip Apple's icon set, modify it negligibly, and add it to their theme, while it's *not* acceptable for a theme developer who posts on CB to do the same? What proof do you have that the theme you name in your post is not the product of individual effort on that developer's part, rather than "plagiarism" of your buddy's theme?

    It seems to me that your friends might be upset because there are competitors to their themes. How do company's in the real world deal with competition? If they want to survive they produce innovative products or services that differentiate them from their competitors.

    Personally I don't like or use iPhone themes. If I wanted to look at a screen that looks like an iPhone I'd get an iPhone, not a BlackBerry. The themes that I use are the product of true creative and innovative efforts on the part of their developers.

    In the end no one is getting sued. Do you really think that Apple minds the fact that iPhone themes are popular with some BlackBerry users? I doubt it. It's just additional, free (to Apple) exposure that doesn't harm their brand. The argument that but for an iPhone theme a BB user would have purchased an iPhone wouldn't carry much weight. At worst, CB theoretically has a bit of exposure for serving as a direct conduit to purchase iPhone-based themes, despite the fact that those themes are hosted by Mobihand and the money flows through Mobihand. However, it's not any greater exposure than CB has in allowing leaks and hybrids to be posted. Again it comes down to exposure, IMO. Neither Apple nor RIM at the end of the day cares about what goes on here, to the extent that it's not enormously violative of their trade secrets (eg: that's why you won't find the MFI uploader here.)
    11-22-09 03:23 PM
  15. Branta's Avatar
    It is really very simple. Our policy on copyright and other Intellectual Property issues is clearly set out, and the procedure for complaints by an IP owner or official agent is openly documented in our Terms and Conditions

    Note that the right to have complaints investigated is with the copyright owner or appointed agent. The most others can do is to send a quick email to the rights owner to let them know where to look.
    11-22-09 05:57 PM
  16. SGTSTEW75's Avatar
    "Dude". It's called DMCA. Look it up ***.

    Tell it to the content rippers in Second Life getting sued for theft of intellectual property.

    And no offense but anyone who thinks that you can behave like a total **** because you were in the Marines? Loses all respect. So you should be allowed to steal others copyright and intellectual property because you were in the Marines? I'm sure that will fly in court.
    That is not what I am saying by any means my man. Sorry if you interpreted it like that. More less I was stating this because that fool called me a 13 year old girl. Anyways rant on and hopefully you all feel better when you get all this whinning out of your systems, I still think all of this nonsense is TRIVIAL in the big scheme of life. But whatever !!!! Life IS WAY TOO SHORT TO CRY ABOUT PLAGIARISM and whatever.....
    11-22-09 11:33 PM
  17. johnstruck's Avatar
    I've never seen a theme I like , let alone one I'd pay for

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-25-09 08:11 AM
  18. Topher75's Avatar
    I just saw that same comment on another thread. I'll have to see if it was you. That's interesting. I'm just learning to create themes. (Calm down Fruzion - I'm doing my own artwork). What is it that you think is missing in what's out there? What is it about themes you don't like. I'm just curious.
    11-25-09 11:40 AM
  19. mistabyggs's Avatar
    Well...time to give my two cents. I looked at the post where you added the screen shot of your buddy's artwork and the original iPhone icons as well. Is it just me or are a few of those icons the same...like the calculator for example. Are you jumping down your buddy's throat for using that icon as well, seeing that hardly anything was changed on it. Although I do agree with you to some extent, but your argument is pointless. Its kind of like telling consignment stores that they can't resell used name brand goods.

    For the most part, many developers (all the theme developers I know) just use these icons as a template to create their own versions. As long as they are not claiming that the icons "where created by themselves", there shouldn't be any issues. I personally ran into that problem a while back when I created a theme for resell (used a background image). The original manufactures email me and told me the violations. So I went to the U.S. Copyright Office website and read up on it. After that I just went in photoshop and created my own background that had a likeness to the original...but yet it was different and was my original work...problem solved.

    Basically, copyright infringements are hard to police unless someone tells on you. So get acknowledged with the laws and just go from there. But like I said earlier...be sure to jump down your friends throat for using that calculator icon....don't be a hypocrite.
    11-25-09 12:15 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD