Wiping and OS Updates: What are my options?

Hey what's up guys.
I have some questions here regarding the OS updates, JL wipes and other stuff. First off, I'm not planning to just jump in and wipe my device without reading all threads/info on it. I have read a number of the threads concerning wiping, JL_Cmder, OS updates/leaks etc.

I am just wondering what my options would be for when the time comes that I do feel I want to do a wipe and then a fresh OS install. Being that I'm currently on a comp with a dial-up connection (be nice!:D), it's nearly impossible to download the OS updates. I tried when Verizon released the official .75 but my download rate was about 4kbs. Would take about 10 hours to download, and I actually tried, but I got an error message saying my connection to the server was reset about 20mb in. :D So I ended up doing the .75 OTA update. When the next official update is released, I will be doing it OTA also.

But, from what I've been reading through Crucial_extreme's post's, and other's who are very knowledgeable on the subject, it's good to install the OS fresh every couple of updates to clear out any pottential bugs or artifacts left from the previous version. And I know most of you wipe before every install. I would like to get this done after a couple more OTA updates or so, since from what I've read, Desktop Manager does'nt always do the best job clearing the old stuff out, and the 'wipe' option on the device only resets some stuff back to factory settings? A user on another site I visited claimed to be a RIM empolyee (well known by other users on the site) and said that the wipe that DM does or OTA upgrade, is just as good as any JL program.

So, short of having to buy another computer that's worthy of a fast cable connection, do I have any other options to do OS updates with the full wiping capabilities of JL_Cmder? :) So far, all I can think of is having someone download the new OS update along with an older rollback, and save it on a disk for me, then install to my comp from there to avoid having to download the huge file. I'll pay for it if anyone's interested in doing that for me, haha. :D Would something like downloading the OTA update, then backing up through DM, wipe with JL_cmder, and then reinstall the backup work?

Thanks guys, and thanks to Crucial_extreme and everyone else who have posted tutorials on how to successfully upgrade OS's, Wipe using the JL programs, Fix a nuked BB, etc.

*Using my one allowed bump*

Actually you are not supposed to bump even once - lol.

WIping the phone at OS upgrade time is not neccessary. The upgrade process does this for you.

If you want to wipe, use CrackUtil from the limk in my signature. It is a lot prettier than JL_Cmder and does the same thing.

To help with OS upgrades, get CrackMem again from my signature. Both utilities are completely free and they are designed to simplify the upgrade process. CrackMem has a step by step guide to upgrading and it will save you lots of memory..

Originally Posted by Pete6

Actually you are not supposed to bump even once - lol.

WIping the phone at OS upgrade time is not neccessary. The upgrade process does this for you.

If you want to wipe, use CrackUtil from the limk in my signature. It is a lot prettier than JL_Cmder and does the same thing.

To help with OS upgrades, get CrackMem again from my signature. Both utilities are completely free and they are designed to simplify the upgrade process. CrackMem has a step by step guide to upgrading and it will save you lots of memory..

really Pete6? i thought the wipe was recommended to do every 2-3 updates?
maybe i miss understood...but i thought crucial had mentioned that as a better, cleaner upgrade...please correct me if i'm wrong. thanks

As i've posted many many times as of late, wiping is about preference. You don't have to do it at all, ever. But those of us who have been doing this a while(and for work) believe wiping ensures a fresh install. But you definitely don't have to do it every upgrade.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by neolantis

really Pete6? i thought the wipe was recommended to do every 2-3 updates?
maybe i miss understood...but i thought crucial had mentioned that as a better, cleaner upgrade...please correct me if i'm wrong. thanks

A number of people have reccomended it. I never do so unless I am having other problems.

The OS is put onto the phone by a program called Loader.exe and the first thig this program does is to issue a loader /nojvm command which immediately wipes the OS and leaves the phone in a JVM 507 error state. JVM 507 is a no OS on the phone state.

I incorporate the above into my program CrackMem which uses only the Loader program to wipe and it will wipe the phone perfectly if required.

CrackUtil makes use of javaloader.exe just like JL_Cmder. It has a prettier interface and does a bit more but it is basically just a front end for javaloader.

I do not think that wiping is neccessary unless there are other problems. I included the Wipe Device option in CrackMem for support reasons only.

My preferred upgrade method is to sync the phone first then Backup, use CrackMem to remove any unwanted OS modules and then I run Desktop Manager and let it get on with it.

I performed my first wipe recently when I installed .83 and it was a nightmare. The wiping process via JL_Cmder was very easy. The headache and nightmare was trying to get my device back to the exact way it was prior to the wipe after loading the new OS. I mean all the applications, browser, blackberry messenger, settings, etc. I'm still missing my App Center from the .83 install.

Is there an easier method of making an exact replica of your phone so when you wipe you can just have an exact clone of your phone before the wipe put onto the device after loading the new OS? So everything is the exact same?

thank you cx and pete, i appreciate it...CX, i have read many of your posts and the wipe seemed to be what stuck in my head...not just as a preference.
thanks to you both for clarifying, i feel better knowing what the experts do.

Originally Posted by StormUsage

I performed my first wipe recently when I installed .83 and it was a nightmare. The wiping process via JL_Cmder was very easy. The headache and nightmare was trying to get my device back to the exact way it was prior to the wipe after loading the new OS. I mean all the applications, browser, blackberry messenger, settings, etc. I'm still missing my App Center from the .83 install.

Is there an easier method of making an exact replica of your phone so when you wipe you can just have an exact clone of your phone before the wipe put onto the device after loading the new OS? So everything is the exact same?

i have done the method and found that if you load the new os, then do a restore from the backup you saved, then load the 3rd party app. file that you saved. the os is back exactly how you had it.
the differences i have seen is the icons are set back to default size and some program permissions had to be reset

Originally Posted by neolantis

thank you cx and pete, i appreciate it...CX, i have read many of your posts and the wipe seemed to be what stuck in my head...not just as a preference.
thanks to you both for clarifying, i feel better knowing what the experts do.

My wife says that I'm an expert and then she tells the that Expert is made up of two parts

EX - as in has been
SPERT - as in a drip under pressure.

It is entirely about prefernce. I try to avoid it because the process is less automatic and Loader.exe does it anyhow. C_X (who is THE MAN) says that it might be a good idea. Experts, huh?

There are only two experts who understand the BlackBerry and they both disagree - love it - falls to floor making idoit noises.

Crucial and Pete,
Got a couple questions for you both if you dont know.

1) when you do a backup through DM what exactly are you backing up? Since after I do a wipe or install the OS you do a restore through DM. I was not sure what you are exactly restoring. Did not know if it was just settings, contacts, etc and not any system OS specific files.

2) Also when you do the backup of your 3rd party apps what is it doing? Is it just re-installing the 3rd party software so you dont have to install each and every program one at a time?

3.) Pete I almost do exactly what you do when you install an OS, sync, backup use crackmem to delete modules (Vendor, VAD, PTT, etc.) but then I use loader.exe program instead of going through DM. Is this any different than using DM or any benefit of using one or the other?

4) When I do go to loader.exe it not only has the basic files for the OS but it also has every 3rd party app I had installed earlier. Why is that and is it ok to click the radio box to install those or should I go from the backup of my 3rd party apps (via tutorial way) or install fresh from an OTA link/manual DM?

Only reason why I ask this because I am curious and cannot seem to figure it out and curiosity gots the best of me.

Thanks and Happy Holidays

Originally Posted by Pete6

My wife says that I'm an expert and then she tells the that Expert is made up of two parts

EX - as in has been
SPERT - as in a drip under pressure.

It is entirely about prefernce. I try to avoid it because the process is less automatic and Loader.exe does it anyhow. C_X (who is THE MAN) says that it might be a good idea. Experts, huh?

There are only two experts who understand the BlackBerry and they both disagree - love it - falls to floor making idoit noises.

LOL, yeah that's why i asked
Crucial IS the man (no offense):), so when you spoke of the loader file doing it automatically i recalled what he had said to many people before about the wiping of device.

somethings slip through the crack in my brain when reading...LOL

(plus it's tough to keep up with reading the current posts and 4500+ of you guys past posts!:)) oh well...i guess that's why you are constantly repeating yourselves. :eek::eek:

Originally Posted by jdkluck

Crucial and Pete,
Got a couple questions for you both if you dont know.

1) when you do a backup through DM what exactly are you backing up? Since after I do a wipe or install the OS you do a restore through DM. I was not sure what you are exactly restoring. Did not know if it was just settings, contacts, etc and not any system OS specific files.
You are backing up all the user settings and data. About the only thing that does not get backed up seems to be the ring Profies.


2) Also when you do the backup of your 3rd party apps what is it doing? Is it just re-installing the 3rd party software so you dont have to install each and every program one at a time?
I am not very familiar with this. So C_X had bett answer this if he's around. I now that they parameters get backed up pand I now that the installed program list is mantained but I am not sure how OTA installs are reinstated.

3.) Pete I almost do exactly what you do when you install an OS, sync, backup use crackmem to delete modules (Vendor, VAD, PTT, etc.) but then I use loader.exe program instead of going through DM. Is this any different than using DM or any benefit of using one or the other?
Loader.exe just installs the OS. Only DM will perform an auto-Restore (if one was made). Installing an OS via Loader results in a vanilla install and an empty phone.

4) When I do go to loader.exe it not only has the basic files for the OS but it also has every 3rd party app I had installed earlier. Why is that and is it ok to click the radio box to install those or should I go from the backup of my 3rd party apps (via tutorial way) or install fresh from an OTA link/manual DM?
It does not matter which application isnstalls the apps, just as long as they get onto the phone. Both programs perform valid installs. I tend to re-install my apps in a kind of multi-stage manner so that I can see when anything refuses to play nice.

Only reason why I ask this because I am curious and cannot seem to figure it out and curiosity gots the best of me.
It's how I learned. Poke, hope and sh!t, oh dear was my formula for finding out. You only know where the limit is when you have just gone past it.

Thanks and Happy Holidays

Clearly RIM supplied DM as the end-user tool of preferrence. Loader is included with every OS release so that stand-alone installs can be carried out without DM. I hope all this makes sense.

Pete thanks for the in depth response I do appreciate it a whole lot.
Make total sense and I do appreciate you taking the time to answer.
I think that I agree with you and probably should do the same in regards to 3rd party apps, since that is what I do with Windows installs (yes I know I am probably the only one who has had to do multiple Win OS installs :P ) to see what works or does not. Good point there will have to do the same thing, just need to remember what I installed then :)

Happy Holidays

Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme

As i've posted many many times as of late, wiping is about preference. You don't have to do it at all, ever. But those of us who have been doing this a while(and for work) believe wiping ensures a fresh install. But you definitely don't have to do it every upgrade.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I agree. At my day job, I don't always javaload/wipe before loading a new OS.

However, if the user was experiencing problems, and that is why I'm upgrading the code, I will do a wipe first.

I've seen nany occasions where just loading the OS (and letting the apploader process wipe the device then load) and the problem was still there after re-load... then we javaload/wipe and load the code.. and the problem goes away...

So my thought.. If you're not having problems and just want the latest OS... then just use apploader.

Originally Posted by Mark_Venture

I agree. At my day job, I don't always javaload/wipe before loading a new OS.

However, if the user was experiencing problems, and that is why I'm upgrading the code, I will do a wipe first.

I've seen nany occasions where just loading the OS (and letting the apploader process wipe the device then load) and the problem was still there after re-load... then we javaload/wipe and load the code.. and the problem goes away...

So my thought.. If you're not having problems and just want the latest OS... then just use apploader.

Agreed 110%. :)

Crucial and Mark_V, so if you install the new OS (XXXX.exe) and then just use the APP loader it is just installing the new OS/upgrading to the new OS.
But if you do what Pete normally practices and does with using DM, that is what you would do if you were experiencing some issues with the code and why your upgrading to the new OS correct?
Just making sure that I am understanding correctly.

Thanks again and Happy Holidays

All of you are great and thank you very much for taking the time to explain in great detail how to do this and that. I myself am very new to BB,got the storm day one, and am looking to become an expert into how everything works. I usually try something until it breaks then have to go back and figure out how to fix it. That's how I learn. So thanks once again.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by Mark_Venture

I agree. At my day job, I don't always javaload/wipe before loading a new OS.

However, if the user was experiencing problems, and that is why I'm upgrading the code, I will do a wipe first.

I've seen nany occasions where just loading the OS (and letting the apploader process wipe the device then load) and the problem was still there after re-load... then we javaload/wipe and load the code.. and the problem goes away...

So my thought.. If you're not having problems and just want the latest OS... then just use apploader.

Like C_X, I agree 110%

True, it saves your apps and what not and then loads the new OS after wiping the phone. I like to start clean, sorry old windows habits, with wiping and choosing what I want to put back on. Then i just restore using DM and voila!

To each his own though, DM during OS update does wipe the phone.

Originally Posted by jdkluck

Crucial and Mark_V, so if you install the new OS (XXXX.exe) and then just use the APP loader it is just installing the new OS/upgrading to the new OS.
But if you do what Pete normally practices and does with using DM, that is what you would do if you were experiencing some issues with the code and why your upgrading to the new OS correct?
Just making sure that I am understanding correctly.

Thanks again and Happy Holidays

Yes. Install the xxx.exe file of the OS, and use Application Loader if you want to upgrade your device to the latest OS/Apps.

If you are having problems and issues, and that is the reason for you upgrading... Then you might want to use Javaloader, JL_Cmder or other util to do a Javaloader Wipe before you try using Application loader.

Based on my unscientificly collected data, I've seen bugs/problems that continue after you load the OS using only Apploader... which have dissapeared if we instead do the Javaloader/Wipe, then load the code.

I can't explain why, since the Apploader also does some kind of WIPE, and the device does get the JVM507 error durring the process. I can just say that I've seen it happen often enough.

NOTE: Javaloader/Wipe is NOT the same as the Security Wipe opton ("wipe handheld" choice under {home screen} -> Options -> Security Options -> General Settings -> {Menu Button} -> Wipe Handheld).

Security Wipe clears all user data from the blackberry, resets all options back to factory default, and the blackberry is returned to a state like it is "fresh out of box".. except.. It does not remove a BES IT Policy, it does not reset/change settings which are locked under BES IT Policy and it does NOT touch data stored on MicroSD card.

Javaloader/Wipe removes the OS, Applications, and User data from the hand held, and you get a JVM507 or SoftwareLoad 507 error. It does not remove BES IT Policy, and does not touch data stored on MicroSD card.

Originally Posted by Pete6

Actually you are not supposed to bump even once - lol.

Sorry about that, Pete. I could have sworn I read that somewhere on here. Going to read the rules now. :)

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I still need to go through and read all of them. I'm late getting back to this thread because I did'nt receive the email notification.