05-17-09 05:25 AM
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  1. BlackStorm72's Avatar
    Say what? I think it's you that's misunderstanding the memory stucture here. The iPhone has 128MB of RAM, but 8GB or 16GB of usable application memory. No RIM product can touch this. Also, the Storm supposedly has 128MB of OS/App memory and 192MB of RAM (if you believe the VZW docs). So ummm, yeah... you're not even in the same ballpark here. I find it funny that you think the iPhone can install 7 pages of apps in only 128MB of app memory.
    Really? My phone on an app that shows amount of ram usage just shows 24mb total. Yet it could be wrong or they snitched ram from me.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-03-09 09:26 PM
  2. madphone's Avatar
    TBH there are many reasons, with security as the biggest one.
    How is the device any less secure if we can allocate more of the memory to app mem. I am sure that going from 128MB to 512MB is a real security risk I just do not see the security issue with it. Also, this device was advertised as a multimedia device. That is apparent in every one of the commercials that have been for the Storm. It should have more app memory or allocatable memory to meet the expectation set by marketing.
    05-03-09 09:35 PM
  3. ConceptS14's Avatar
    I'm no expert but I don't think your statement is correct. Many have confirmed that the 128MB 'application memory' is a partition on the 1GB internal memory. The fact that the internal device memory is listed as ~879 MB total is further evidence of this fact. 879 MB (device memory) + 128 MB (application memory) = 1007 MB or approximately 1 GB.

    That the internal memory is partitioned to achieve these values seems to be generally accepted as fact. That would mean the memory is of the same physical type and, therefore, can be repartitioned to make more memory available to applications.

    Again, I'm no expert in this but it seems that my description above has been the most widely accepted.
    your adding apples to oranges.

    ever wonder why you don't get the full 1GB from a 1GB USB stick, or why my 60GB harddrive shows 52GB of total space, or my 1TB harddrive shows only 931GB of total space...?? i think you get the point.
    05-03-09 09:55 PM
  4. MrGixxer6's Avatar
    1. 128mb/192mb - since the memory above 128mb is dedicated to video and not used by the OS or apps, I'll stand by what I stated.

    2. Please point out where I ever claimed the iPhone STORED apps in the 128mb of RAM...I referenced executable memory. Apps on the iPhone are not executed ANYWHERE other than the 128mb of RAM located on the DDR/Processor IC...the iPhone also does not do true multitasking and uses a virtual memory system to accomplish what it does. I never once said they weren't ahead of RIM in that respect, I just personally don't think it's a big deal. I don't need 7 pages of crap on my phone...YMMV (your mileage may vary.)


    Look, what RIM is doing is kinda screwy and I'd bet Verizon pushing them to market is a big part of it. It's an OS issue and we can all just hope they don't decide to orphan us and do the right thing with the Storm 2...I'll join the class action lawsuit on that one if it happens and VZ doesn't cough up a new handset.

    I was specifically addressing the "partitioning" talk and pointing out how the that's not what is going on...don't read other crap into what I'm saying please.
    I'll be honest, i read your post and it seems rather obvious that you think you know what you are talking about.. The 128mb app memory on the storm is partitioned from the onboard 1gb of flash memory. This is where the OS and Apps are installed. When you look in your Status screen and it says you have 34mb of app memory, that is what it is talking about. and YES it could be repartitioned to alot more than 128mb of app memory as it is shown to be only ONE chip on the board. And according to spec, there is 196mb of RAM in the phone as well. Not to stir the pot, but everything you said makes perfect sense if it were correct...
    05-03-09 10:26 PM
  5. techitrucker's Avatar
    Okay, I'll answer this one again. This is a hardware issue, not a software issue. I have yet to see any phone sized device use more than 128mb for app memory...that includes Windows Mobile and iPhone. The problem is that you're talking about two different kinds of memory...static and dynamic RAM. Applications run in dynamic RAM which has much higher access speeds but which also consume more power and must be kept powered constantly. Static RAM is used for storage and only needs power when accessed but is too slow to cute code.

    Hence, if you increase app memory you decrease battery life...in a phone it would decrease your standby time greatly as refreshing DRAM and running background apps to monitor radio and interface inputs is the major drain.

    Barring a breakthrough in battery tech or DRAM power usage, don't expect app memory increases without battery and device size increases.
    Actually Winmobile has given you the option to run applications off of memory cards and in the rare instances that there is extra memory on the device, from that memory for at least five generations. Basically as long as there has been expandable memory. Same with Palm and seeing as how Win Mobile is the 700 pound gorilla in the corporate closet and never seemed to have security issues I see no reason why RIM can't make this happen. Most of the current crop of Win Mobile devices are using 256 to 512 mb of app memory unless they are on Verizon for some reason (touch pro and omnia on Verizon have 192, and odd number but still better than 128) but you can install apps to the memory card which means not such a big deal.

    It seems to me that the biggest problem in Blackberry is not hardware but in corporate thinking at RIM. It's not long ago that Blackberries where not much more than glorified text pagers. Thinking simpler has been a strength but will not give them much more leverage in the consumer market. They really need to make a decision as to whether its a market they actually want to be in and if not they need to let their customers know.
    05-03-09 10:44 PM
  6. dell2884's Avatar
    Aerize.com has a program that you can actually load certian applications on to your Sd chip and leave them there untill you actually need them. im using it now on my bb and my ram stays in the 25-33 range on a majority of the time.
    this can help aleviate this problem its a good app to have.
    05-03-09 11:33 PM
  7. ConceptS14's Avatar
    I'll be honest, i read your post and it seems rather obvious that you think you know what you are talking about.. The 128mb app memory on the storm is partitioned from the onboard 1gb of flash memory. This is where the OS and Apps are installed. When you look in your Status screen and it says you have 34mb of app memory, that is what it is talking about. and YES it could be repartitioned to alot more than 128mb of app memory as it is shown to be only ONE chip on the board. And according to spec, there is 196mb of RAM in the phone as well. Not to stir the pot, but everything you said makes perfect sense if it were correct...
    i posted right above you.
    the reason you only show 879(or whatever)mb of the 1gb memory is because space is taken up when the 1gb is formatted.
    just because 879+128 = close to 1gb doesnt mean squat.
    05-04-09 03:17 AM
  8. Wizard101's Avatar
    Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the App memory/ OS installed onto a ROM chip, similar to a BIOS chip? and the Device Storage a completely different type of memory?

    If that is the case then there is no amount of software or repartitioning that will increase App memory. The "1GB" Device Storage will never be exactly 1GB unless a higher amount is put in then formatted to just 1GB. Which would be a good idea to do so that the extra that is not used could be used for a swap file of sorts.
    05-04-09 05:04 AM
  9. pmas's Avatar
    To the OP....in a word..no
    05-04-09 05:44 AM
  10. MrGixxer6's Avatar
    i posted right above you.
    the reason you only show 879(or whatever)mb of the 1gb memory is because space is taken up when the 1gb is formatted.
    just because 879+128 = close to 1gb doesnt mean squat.
    I am pretty sure that Radio confirmed that the 128 was partitioned from the 1gb at one point in one of the 1000 other discussions about this.. Pretty sure he also said they were toying with different sizes or something. i personally don't really care enough to follow it that closely though..
    05-04-09 07:12 AM
  11. Branta's Avatar
    I expect they could. I would also like to know why they do not just put loads more in to begin with. The best, most reliable phone that RIM make is the 8900 and that has 256Mb memory. Why do they not just put in 512Mb or as much as the CPU can address.
    I think you might have hit the reason. What are the memory addressing limits in the available processors?

    RIM can only design around what is scheduled to be available in commercial quantity from the chip foundry when the phone is released. For a phone released "today" that probably means processor and chipset which were being designed several years ago.
    05-04-09 07:14 AM
  12. Branta's Avatar
    Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the App memory/ OS installed onto a ROM chip, similar to a BIOS chip? and the Device Storage a completely different type of memory?

    If that is the case then there is no amount of software or repartitioning that will increase App memory. The "1GB" Device Storage will never be exactly 1GB unless a higher amount is put in then formatted to just 1GB. Which would be a good idea to do so that the extra that is not used could be used for a swap file of sorts.
    You're on the right track.

    There are obviously 2 types of memory in the device. Flash memory which functions as permanent storage (stable without external power) and some kind of dynamic memory which is volatile and must have external power to retain content, but much faster in operation.

    Think of it like a computer booting from USB stick. The OS lives in a dedicated (protected) partition on the solid state drive, and is loaded into volatile memory to run. The applications and data are stored on another partition (second USB?) and are also copied into volatile memory to run.

    Now the bit people don't seem to understand. Or maybe they understand but pretend not because they are Trolls. It appears current BBs have about 128/256 Megabytes of fast volatile memory (that's like SIMMs in your PC) used directly by the processor as working memory. And 1024 Megabytes of flash memory (like a USB or CF card) which is slow but long term stable. The 1024megs slow flash is partitioned to give the OS files a protected area not normally visible to Users, and about 850megs of onboard storage for User Data.

    And if anyone thinks the slow flash is usable for running apps - think how long it takes to load the OS.
    05-04-09 09:02 AM
  13. Boxedlunch's Avatar
    Are you stupid.....if your going to use computers in your analogy then use the correct terms. Ram is like the application memory and the 1gb of storage is like your hard drive.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-04-09 09:53 AM
  14. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    Are you stupid.....if your going to use computers in your analogy then use the correct terms. Ram is like the application memory and the 1gb of storage is like your hard drive.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Incorrect since the app memory (i.e. 128MB) is actually flash as well... it's where your OS and loaded apps/data reside. Take out the battery and leave your phone like that for an extended period of time. You'll see when you turn it back on that everything is still there, If it was RAM, it would lose all that info.... Don't be so quick to call someone names... especially when you yourself ARE WRONG!
    05-04-09 10:57 AM
  15. Joel S.'s Avatar
    The Dynamic RAM is what keeps getting referred to as "application memory" and is the same as the RAM in your home computer.
    This isn't correct. "Application memory" is really a bit of a misnomer in this situation. Think about it, if it were actual RAM, why would free App Memory change when you remove default wallpapers, or add and/or remove themes and programs on the phone? You want to tell me that the phone is going to load unused, default wallpapers and themes into RAM when it starts up? That would be a grade A piece of ******** programming if that were the case.

    The Storm has 128MB of RAM (according to RIM's spec sheet) and 1GB of flash storage, ~128mb of that being set aside for app memory. However, the Curve 8900 has 256MB of App Memory, yet I doubt it has more physical RAM than the Storm.

    Anyway, this MIGHT be a moot issue as there's a tidbit in 5.0 materials about the media card being used for "3rd party applications" (see 3.24.1).
    05-04-09 11:29 AM
  16. wpn00b's Avatar
    Why would there need to be a constant back and forth between DRAM and SRAM on the storm? Couldn't a program be temporarily loaded into DRAM and then deleted when closed? That's how the TX manages this.
    I was wondering the same thing...

    This situation reminds me of when the first Playstation came out. You could be playing one of the early games, someone could open the top accidentally, just to be a ****, or possibly just out of curiosity, and whatever scenery or music the system had preloaded into memory would continue until your character had exited those boundaries. Or the game would lock up.

    Isn't this the same premise? Why can't our devices do that?

    I really don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to the inner workings of these things though so maybe this is completely different.
    05-17-09 01:14 AM
  17. littlegreenmen's Avatar
    the biggest issue with adding more app memory or any other kind of messing around whether it be software wise or hardware is always gonna be the battery. the more power your asking the phone to put out the more it needs to operate. people complain about battery life now on the phone,go ahead and do the things that are being talked about here and watch how quick your phone drains. until theres a major improvement of batterys(was talked about in earlier post by someone) theres not much RIM can do. its asking the phone to do more than the battery can handle.
    05-17-09 01:49 AM
  18. racca's Avatar
    Hmmm...and the Storm has a 1024mb Flash and 128mb RAM...they're being pretty lean on the storage side. I cited 128mb-256mb as the general range for most smartphones and ONE of the phones you cited has more than that (the Touch HD has 288mb)...kinda splitting hairs there, eh?
    pull your battery out, wait for one or two days and you'll know if it's ram or rom


    ps static ram/sram refers to high speed cache that's extremely expensive, intel/amd have no maistream cpu with more than 8mbytes of sram, 1gb sram?? you do the math
    05-17-09 05:07 AM
  19. racca's Avatar
    your adding apples to oranges.

    ever wonder why you don't get the full 1GB from a 1GB USB stick, or why my 60GB harddrive shows 52GB of total space, or my 1TB harddrive shows only 931GB of total space...?? i think you get the point.
    1 "tbytes" = 1'000'000'000' kbytes = 931.3 gbytes (at least)

    1 "gbytes" = 1'000'000 kbytes = 953.7 mbytes (at least) as some vendor uses
    1 "gbytes" = 1'000 mbytes

    bottom line--- i would be expecting at least 950 mbytes off a 1"gbytes" card, explain the missing bits fyi no vendor would go under this, afaik
    05-17-09 05:17 AM
  20. racca's Avatar
    i'm sure rim won't be installing apps on ram if they really care about security. i had a palm few years back, few weeks without recharge (left with full battery), all data are gone (apps still there)

    if all those java apps are in a ram as ravgreg claimed, i'm sure you'll be facing a completely wiped berry if you left battery out for a couple of days which never happened to me.

    my guess would be
    faster rom---sfi ---imagine bios on pc
    slower rom ---cod/free --- imagine windows(mac linux) /data partitions
    ram---just like ram on pc

    so
    05-17-09 05:25 AM
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