[Quiet_Before_The_Storm]

His last paragraph may have been over the line. Ya'll two can settle that cause my name (in this case) is Wes... I ain't in that mess I understand you don't want to risk a beta os taking away what functionality you have, hence sticking to VZ official releases. Which while stable (for the most part), .75 is below the performance of the leaked OS.


TBH looking to switch to the Niagra when it first comes out could land you in the same boat. While the hardware itself may be tried and true, there's no telling what shape the OS it ships with will be in. The difference in chipsets will most likely mean the option of downgrading to another carrier's stable OS is probably out the window as well.

Early adoption of any cellphone (look to the LG Dare, Samsung Instinct, Apple iPhone and iPhone 3g) is a bad idea if the device will be used in any mission critical way. I think that's the point he was trying to make. Early adoption for anything typically isn't a good idea if the person lacks patience or expects perfection. Look to the Xbox 360, Playstion 3, World of Worldcraft, Eve Online, Ford Pinto... ect ect....

This is the point that I can't understand that is being made; I have said on a few occasions that I am not in a mission critical situation, my company doesn't stop functioning because my blackberry doesn't work, so me having a new phone means absolutely nothing. As a matter of fact, I never even mentioned any problem that I had except for the fact that I can't participate in all of the leaked OS's. I have several business emails that I use. With every addition of a new OS, I have to contact several clients to add my/their company email address again. It is unprofessional to constantly contact them asking for passwords because I want to update an OS every other week. There is nothing difficult to understand there. So for anyone to come at me talking about they wonder how I am still in business and proof of my flawed thought process, frankly, is just being an a$$hole for no reason at all.

I am also far from lacking patience. I have had my Storm since the day they came out and have waited patiently for a stable OS to be released. My point is, how long is long enough? For me, I will wait until the Niagara comes out, see those reviews and make my decision.

[cereal killer]

@ Quiet_Before_the_Storm

Save yourself the aggravation of "debating" with Bigman.

Tell him the Earth is round and he will get all philosophical, quote Shakespeare, and attempt to convince you he's an intellectual while trying to make his point.

It all falls flat of course but its entertaining.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[bigman2]

On another note go figure I see small mans mom let him on the computer again. Dude get a life and stop just going forum to forum thinking your opinion is the only one that matters. Just cause you spent your life being picked on does note mean that if you go on here and cut other people down you are now cool. And really your name alone shows your small man complex. Just let people enjoy this site. And take your rage out on your onune gamer friends

It's nice that you read so much into the username I chose. In reality, I just picked it out to use as the name for a spam email address. You know, when you have to make some account on a site, and you know they're going to sign you up for a couple hundred pointless mailing lists... But hey, thanks for playing there sport.

And don't worry CK... You and your alter ego RC are still my favorite Crackberry troll. No need to get jealous. But I am curious... If not an intellectual argument, then what, pray tell, would convince you? Should I start making grunting noises, and point at things emphatically? Make a bunch of "your mom" jokes? Say, "I know you are but what am I?" after everything you say? Maybe some good farting and burping noises would win you over! I mean seriously, what intellectual level should I stoop to in order to get my point across? Drunk college kid? College freshman? High schooler? Middle schooler? Elementary schooler? Kindergarten? Preschool? Primate? At what point will things I say stop passing right on over your head? Maybe if I came up with witty phrases, like, "Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's my point going over CK's head!"

Of course the fact that this is still even being debated only further proves my point that I hit on something. Apparently, I struck gold and multiple people are bothered by it. I mean sure, as soon as I say that if it really didn't bother you, you'd act confused and not angry, suddenly everyone starts acting all confused... Two posts before that, it's all, "You don't know what you're talking about! You're just full of ****e!" and other emotional outbursts. When will people learn? When someone points out these things, you admit you lost that particular battle, and just bide your time until the next one. There's nothing wrong with being outwitted, just be big enough to admit it.

Anyway, it clearly seems that we've exhausted the topic that started this particular thread... Actually that was probably done back on like page 2, but it seems that particular dead horse can't be beaten any further. Still, since it seems some people have fragile little egos and run away from inconvenient truths because self-reflection is scary, it seems long past time for a mod to swoop in and close this thread. The horse is dead, and not only did we give it a right good beating, we made some high quality glue in the process.

[cereal killer]

And don't worry CK... You and your alter ego RC are still my favorite Crackberry troll. No need to get jealous. But I am curious... If not an intellectual argument, then what, pray tell, would convince you? .

Talking/debating about the realities of the cell phone market is not a battle of intellect. Its a battle of good old common sense
.

Something you are lacking ; )

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Souless Poet]

CK and Big....you two love birds get a room already...pda is killing me...or atleast a thread....I think you two should have your own thread and every day you guys could go back and forth...two men enter one man leaves!!!!!!!!

[jdoc77]

lol. I love how the fact that someone is still talking about something is taken as proof of the converse.

[ScandaLeX]

I think that some of you have forgetten that as early adopters of any phone, some of you are going to have problems and others wont.

Whether it's the rant & raves section or not, too many of you are spending way too much time bashing each other and not the subject.

Just b/c person (A) is having issues with their phone and person (B) is not, doesn't give anyone the right to treat A or B like they're each not entitled to their opinion.

I believe RIM is working on these issues but lets not forget that it takes time. For those demanding fixes yesterday, what are you going to do when a rushed fix solves nothing?

I've been an early adopter of many phones and some of those phones I was ready to throw off a bridge. Personally I think more times than not, when we have a phone thats buggy or just not up to our standards; rather than return it and go back to old, we insist on holding on to it (b/c it's new) - waiting for the fix that seems to take forever.

I honestly believe that if more phones were RETURNED rather than kept, it would force the carrier or the manufacturer to do things a tad bit faster. We just act like we're so afraid to let go!

[xblack5dahliax]

so take back the phone if you dont feel like waiting. rim is working on it. just because you can't see their progress doesn't mean they are twiddling their thumbs.

what snork said plus the fact uhhh hello how many bb's are coming out lately they have alot on there hands well rim does

[kuroshio]

This is the point that I can't understand that is being made; I have said on a few occasions that I am not in a mission critical situation, my company doesn't stop functioning because my blackberry doesn't work, so me having a new phone means absolutely nothing. As a matter of fact, I never even mentioned any problem that I had except for the fact that I can't participate in all of the leaked OS's. I have several business emails that I use. With every addition of a new OS, I have to contact several clients to add my/their company email address again. It is unprofessional to constantly contact them asking for passwords because I want to update an OS every other week. There is nothing difficult to understand there. So for anyone to come at me talking about they wonder how I am still in business and proof of my flawed thought process, frankly, is just being an a$$hole for no reason at all.

I am also far from lacking patience. I have had my Storm since the day they came out and have waited patiently for a stable OS to be released. My point is, how long is long enough? For me, I will wait until the Niagara comes out, see those reviews and make my decision.

Since I'm one of those guys who has the almost Perfect Storm, I don't need to wait for a stable OS. 114's change in orientation is taking a bit to get used to (RIM made it so you have to hold the phone at almost 90 degrees for the accelerometer to kick in). There's also a bug where if I'm viewing a message in portrait and turn to landscape, the message disappears (switching back to portrait or viewing in landscape at the start makes it work properly).

I don't get why you're having to have people re-add your email address if you change OS. Don't have enough info go there. Sounds like something people here could help you with. Waiting for the Niagra... Good luck with that. I personally don't see me changing handsets until LTE is availible. But I mean "Good luck with that" sincerely.

The Storm is for me. It may not be for you.

[Quiet_Before_The_Storm]

Since I'm one of those guys who has the almost Perfect Storm, I don't need to wait for a stable OS. 114's change in orientation is taking a bit to get used to (RIM made it so you have to hold the phone at almost 90 degrees for the accelerometer to kick in). There's also a bug where if I'm viewing a message in portrait and turn to landscape, the message disappears (switching back to portrait or viewing in landscape at the start makes it work properly).

I don't get why you're having to have people re-add your email address if you change OS. Don't have enough info go there. Sounds like something people here could help you with. Waiting for the Niagra... Good luck with that. I personally don't see me changing handsets until LTE is availible. But I mean "Good luck with that" sincerely.

The Storm is for me. It may not be for you.

Everytime there is an OS update you lose your BES connection and you have to call the administrator to re-initialize your device. There is no workaround. Since I have 8 different client e-mail addresses, I use the email address pertaining to which law firm I am working on a case for at that time, I would have to contact 8 different admins each time I updated my OS so that I can re-initialize my device. As a matter of fact, there are threads here from people that have the same problem.

Since there have been several beta OS updates since I have had mine since Nov. 21st, I'm very careful about jumping to a new OS since I am aware that everytime I do that, I will be constantly bothering admins of my clients. Several times if I did all the updates. This is why I said if RIM doesn't release an official stable OS by the time a new BB comes, then I will make a decision then.

BTW, it doesn't matter to me if it is the Niagara specifically or whatever new phone comes out. If we are still playing the beta OS game by the time a new BB comes out for Verizon, I will make a decision then as to what is best for me and only me.

[Quiet_Before_The_Storm]

Since I'm one of those guys who has the almost Perfect Storm, I don't need to wait for a stable OS. 114's change in orientation is taking a bit to get used to (RIM made it so you have to hold the phone at almost 90 degrees for the accelerometer to kick in). There's also a bug where if I'm viewing a message in portrait and turn to landscape, the message disappears (switching back to portrait or viewing in landscape at the start makes it work properly).

I don't get why you're having to have people re-add your email address if you change OS. Don't have enough info go there. Sounds like something people here could help you with. Waiting for the Niagra... Good luck with that. I personally don't see me changing handsets until LTE is availible. But I mean "Good luck with that" sincerely.

The Storm is for me. It may not be for you.

BTW, I see a lot of people seem to be happy with the 114 hybrid so I am thinking of giving that a try. I think that may be fine until an official release.

[jdoc77]

Carefully read the OP much? Tweak...

[kuroshio]

Everytime there is an OS update you lose your BES connection and you have to call the administrator to re-initialize your device. There is no workaround. Since I have 8 different client e-mail addresses, I use the email address pertaining to which law firm I am working on a case for at that time, I would have to contact 8 different admins each time I updated my OS so that I can re-initialize my device. As a matter of fact, there are threads here from people that have the same problem.

Since there have been several beta OS updates since I have had mine since Nov. 21st, I'm very careful about jumping to a new OS since I am aware that everytime I do that, I will be constantly bothering admins of my clients. Several times if I did all the updates. This is why I said if RIM doesn't release an official stable OS by the time a new BB comes, then I will make a decision then.

BTW, it doesn't matter to me if it is the Niagara specifically or whatever new phone comes out. If we are still playing the beta OS game by the time a new BB comes out for Verizon, I will make a decision then as to what is best for me and only me.

Ah... I missed the BES part. My bad

I'd hold off on the .114 for the moment. It's stable for me (with the .109 keyboard files). But I believe VZ will be slapping an "Official" tag on something soon. If it's lower than .114, I stick with what I have.

And really that's who we're waiting on, VZ not RIM. People report problems with every OS that's been leaked, which is why I don't believe them until I try it for myself. Every leak has been stable for me, with my phone going without battery pulls or resets for weeks with 36+ hours battery life with moderate - heavy usage. I honestly believe .109 could have been released officially. Now they've added the new Copy / Paste feature and that prolly has thrown a few bugs into the mix.

[kuroshio]

Carefully read the OP much? Tweak...

Don't make me come over there and smack ya

[Quiet_Before_The_Storm]

Ah... I missed the BES part. My bad

I'd hold off on the .114 for the moment. It's stable for me (with the .109 keyboard files). But I believe VZ will be slapping an "Official" tag on something soon. If it's lower than .114, I stick with what I have.

And really that's who we're waiting on, VZ not RIM. People report problems with every OS that's been leaked, which is why I don't believe them until I try it for myself. Every leak has been stable for me, with my phone going without battery pulls or resets for weeks with 36+ hours battery life with moderate - heavy usage. I honestly believe .109 could have been released officially. Now they've added the new Copy / Paste feature and that prolly has thrown a few bugs into the mix.

I'm hoping we will be getting an official release soon. I have read a lot of good things about .109 from the forum as well as .114. I have a bit of a typing lag and sometimes I have a problem when you select an icon, you hear the audible click, but nothing happens. You have to press the screen again. That can mess up and email or text, then you have to go back and correct it. I have been hoping that those issues are fixed in an update.

To be honest, other than that, I really haven't had the problems that others have. My phone has only crashed once the entire time I have had it. No video problems, camera problems, accelerometer is good, etc. If I didn't have the BES concern I would have been on CB every week testing out the beta OS's also.

[Brian.Tufo]

Our resident troll aside... I think I have some idea of what you're saying, but I still don't get why you care.

In an ideal world, the Storm would have launched with an OS that blew everyone away, but reality is messy and complicated. Some of us have taken the pragmatic approach of installing leaked builds, some have chosen to remain with .75 or whatever the last official build for a given carrier was.

We can go round and round endlessly speculating on why it's taking so long for a new "official" update and why each of the leaked builds has its own set of quirks. We don't know is what it comes down to in the end. RIM's not talking, those in the know are gagged by NDAs, and speculating based on the incomplete and random scraps of information we have is an effort in futility.

For some of us, the leaked builds work really well, and for some of us they don't. I kind of think that it has less to do with third party software people install, and more the different expectations people have. Some people will simply never be happy with any phone. They will find fault in EVERYTHING, because they paradoxically enjoy being miserable. Some people, like CK/RC just troll because they don't have any friends, and so they pretend as if they don't need anyone and just lash out at people. Some people may not be thrilled with the situation, but understand whining about it isn't going to help matters, and just try to make the best of the situation. And of course some of us don't expect our cell phones to be this all-in-one uber device. We're pretty happy if it works well as a phone and a PDA. If it can do other things in a pinch, like be an MP3 player, GPS, or even portable game console... Bonus! But we don't expect that our cell phone to be full replacements for those devices. Maybe if one day I forget my MP3 player, or I forget to charge it, my Storm could handle my entertainment on my daily commute. Or maybe you miss your train/bus and have to wait for the next one, so you pass the time playing a simple game on your phone since you didn't bring your DS/PSP.

People need to bring their expectations for a cell phone back into the realm of what's practical. Plenty of things are possible, but they aren't practical when you try and cram a bunch of different functions into one device.

I agree with you. i always hear people about the mp3s and GPS stuff. first off I have an 80 GB iPod classic with over 5600 songs on it now (22.31GB)...now that will NOT fir on an iPhone or a BB. I did not buy the phone to replace my iPod. I also have a GPS unit in my car. I did not buy the BB so i could hold the phone in my hand and drive down the road trying to read the screen. I am in no way bashing people who did purchase their phone to be a sort off all-in-one. I am merely stating my uses.

I have the .114/.113/.106/.86 Hybrid and MY BB is very very responsive, it is WAY faster then it EVER has been, it is simply the phone I have been waiting for. I have also used the iPhone too. I do think the iPhone is a good phone not going to lie about that. The thing I dont like is people who own an iPhone seem to be so **** bent on selling others iPhones. It really gets annoying. I work with 2 guys who have iPhones and all they do is brag about their new "farting app" or whatever. They are the first ones to claim how crappy the BB Storm is compared to their "GODLY" iPhone. They go out of their way to send me articles of how "awesome" the iPhone is and how "crappy" the Storm is. I simply say to each his own. I am loving the **** out of my Storm. I have almost NO lag, my typing isnt fast enough to mess up (and im decently fast), my phone doesnt randomly reboot, my browser is flawless as far as loading goes and overall use.

In closing if you hate the phone or love it bottom line...it's still JUST a PHONE!

[CXXXV]

Finally a poster with some common sense. What we have with the Storm is what I call the "Microsoft Syndrome".

At some point MS made it OK to release software with bugs, and since they believe Windows is the only game in town then tough Sh1t if you don't like.

MS just let's customers tell them what's wrong and then maybe they will fix it.

RIM essentially did the same thing with this phone. Let's put it out and let people tell us what is wrong.

When did it become ok to accept mediocrity. Parents telling their kids it's ok to fail instead of making them responsible for their actions.

I see this everyday in the young people I interview. Their sense of entitlement is amazing.

Do you think that our economy would be in such a toilet if weren't for the fact that all these CEO's only cared about themselves. Talk about entitlement.

What about congressmen and senators who only care about their own advancement rather than actually representing a constituency

I would have never bought a Storm had I known that RIM products were this finnicky. I trusted RIM's reputation and boy do I feel like a fool.

Oh well. I know that I am not raising my child that way. I am making sure that he will be a productive member of society rather than a leach.

I posted a thread about an application that I purchased that doesn't work as advertised and a lot of members just accused me of whinning.

I hope their cars, or medical equipment fails in a critical situation and then thay can just say "oh well" it's ok, not all things are perfect. These are the first SOB's who start yelling "LAWSIUT"

OK. I am calmer now.....not

What happened to one's integrity. No one cares anymore.

[ScandaLeX]

While so many are blaming RIM, did you ever stop to think that the phone was flawless BEFORE the carrier crap got put on it.

I recall the same debacle with HTC- all their phones had the same basic structure- they just didn't do what they were supposed to fo once the carrier added all kinds of other nonsense to the phone.

I seriously do not believe the fault of any phone is strictly the manufacturers.

[jdoc77]

Don't make me come over there and smack ya

I had to buy a storm to get that much love from you! *pouts*

lol...

[Bettermost]

Honestly it bothers me when I see people saying .109 is perfect for them. Really? How so? I'm curious because last time I checked the phone still lags in pretty much everything it does. Pan a photo and see. Do the same for a webpage and its even worse. In fact I wish you could all see how bad my storm is lagging right now as I type. I mean we all know the phone has major problems...or at least we should. my main concern is that rim will continue to pump out slow os builds like these simply because its "good enough" when it really isn't. Yes the newer builds are better...but they still suck in general. Wake the **** up people!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Something must be wrong with your phone then. Im running the Factory O/S and I have no lag and no problems with my phone at all. Maybe you are just expecting to much from a $200 phone ya think?

[Stormin916]

Finally a poster with some common sense. What we have with the Storm is what I call the "Microsoft Syndrome".

At some point MS made it OK to release software with bugs, and since they believe Windows is the only game in town then tough Sh1t if you don't like.

MS just let's customers tell them what's wrong and then maybe they will fix it.

RIM essentially did the same thing with this phone. Let's put it out and let people tell us what is wrong.

When did it become ok to accept mediocrity. Parents telling their kids it's ok to fail instead of making them responsible for their actions.

I see this everyday in the young people I interview. Their sense of entitlement is amazing.

Do you think that our economy would be in such a toilet if weren't for the fact that all these CEO's only cared about themselves. Talk about entitlement.

What about congressmen and senators who only care about their own advancement rather than actually representing a constituency

I would have never bought a Storm had I known that RIM products were this finnicky. I trusted RIM's reputation and boy do I feel like a fool.

Oh well. I know that I am not raising my child that way. I am making sure that he will be a productive member of society rather than a leach.

I posted a thread about an application that I purchased that doesn't work as advertised and a lot of members just accused me of whinning.

I hope their cars, or medical equipment fails in a critical situation and then thay can just say "oh well" it's ok, not all things are perfect. These are the first SOB's who start yelling "LAWSIUT"

OK. I am calmer now.....not

What happened to one's integrity. No one cares anymore.

are you done yet? because you wanna bash the economy then go ahead, you wanna talk about your kids then talk to Dr. phil, but you sit here an talk about something that has no meaning really...yes software has bugs but you have to be insane to think that after 5 months they have the storm workin like a 3g iphone....how long has the Iphone been out? how long has the following for the Iphone been growing? SIMPLE TRUTH IS THAT YOU CANNOT EXPECT A BABY TO RUN A MARATHON...and I have no idea where you live if the hospitals dont check the equipment regularly....

[stormMD]

Very nice job telling the truth. EVERY TIME Ive tried to state my problems with this phone I always get a "well its not the phone for you" or "its your phone, mine works great". Bul lShi T.

A LOT of other people on this site have the EXACT same issues as me, but theres always those ****ed storm fanboys tryin to make sound like an *** when i have valid reasons to vent.

You nailed it..the name of the site sometimes seems to be CryBerries,,,a bunch of appologists who have nothing better to do than to scan the web for any morsel of BB news that will give them hope..i mean i have the storm..not much i can do..i loaded the .109 and it definitely is better...however the inherent flaws are what they are..no amt of rationalization will take it away..i bought a iphone for my dtr the other day..the whole experience of the device as it came out of the box was in stark contrast with the Storm...me with my Storm was like a PC in the DOS days and she was flying and surfing with Wifi which was light yrs ahead of anything i have gotten out of the storm ever...and Mo rons here claim they dont miss Wifi and some dont want it(???)...Now to the "addict" who will tell me to get another phone blah blah blah...i didnt want the iphone it doesnt have voice dial i dont like the touch screen and the accidental calls etc etc. the difference is they do what they claim and what they dont do they dont do...In the storm's case all the claims are false..i played or tried to play a video that i recorded on the storm and it said unsupported format..granted this only happens once in awhile..but does that F in make any sense? and try playing anything with that media player except the simplest music and you will be greeted with a blank screen. the browser is barely if so better than my Treo....I would have thrown this thing in the gutter if i had the option of the Bold.which is the device i would like..if the new version has touchscreen and the keyboard..thats what i want and suspect RIM already knows that. The storm will be a bad memory in about 12 months...well for me about 8 months..lol.

[stormMD]

Impossible! There is no such thing!!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

LOL the only "Skin" theyve touched is the one they have for their BB.

[MastermindJB]

I don't think I have low standards at all. My Storm has done everything I've asked it to and more. The phone isn't perfect sure, but I'm more than satisfied with my device, and I've used every single little aspect of it at this point. I'm not saying that my experience with my phone is the same as yours, but so far, my Storm has been incredible. I'm running .114 now, not because I thought my device needed overhauled, but 'cause I'm rather enjoying the ride of seeing new and more exciting changes with it. There has never been an advanced piece of technology such as this phone, the computer I'm typing this message on, my gaming system, my TV, etc. that you can say was PERFECT. If that were the case, new updates, versions, etc, would not be released. The device is what it is, and with that being the case, I'm enamored with it.

[kuroshio]

You nailed it..the name of the site sometimes seems to be CryBerries,,,a bunch of appologists who have nothing better to do than to scan the web for any morsel of BB news that will give them hope..i mean i have the storm..not much i can do..i loaded the .109 and it definitely is better...however the inherent flaws are what they are..no amt of rationalization will take it away..i bought a iphone for my dtr the other day..the whole experience of the device as it came out of the box was in stark contrast with the Storm...me with my Storm was like a PC in the DOS days and she was flying and surfing with Wifi which was light yrs ahead of anything i have gotten out of the storm ever...and Mo rons here claim they dont miss Wifi and some dont want it(???)...Now to the "addict" who will tell me to get another phone blah blah blah...i didnt want the iphone it doesnt have voice dial i dont like the touch screen and the accidental calls etc etc. the difference is they do what they claim and what they dont do they dont do...In the storm's case all the claims are false..i played or tried to play a video that i recorded on the storm and it said unsupported format..granted this only happens once in awhile..but does that F in make any sense? and try playing anything with that media player except the simplest music and you will be greeted with a blank screen. the browser is barely if so better than my Treo....I would have thrown this thing in the gutter if i had the option of the Bold.which is the device i would like..if the new version has touchscreen and the keyboard..thats what i want and suspect RIM already knows that. The storm will be a bad memory in about 12 months...well for me about 8 months..lol.

Wifi: How can I miss a toy I'd never play with? Cause that's all it would be to me.. A toy that never gets used. I have a laptop with a 17" screen and a Playstation 3 attached to a 42" screen. Both a far better browsers than Mobile Safari (the ps3 has Flash). Both are in the only place I can be found that has a reliable wifi signal: my house.

Media player: Digital copies of Hancock and The Dark Knight both run without a single issue. DVD copies of Final Fantasy VII and Cowboy Bebop: The Movie keep me from falling asleep between jobs at work.

Video recording: I think I was running .75 when these were taken without issue. I also had a 15 minute test clip taken around the same time. But who wants to watch my tv?

You ever think that maybe some of us aren't apologists? Aren't fanbois? Definately aren't the ones crying? That maybe... Just maybe our phones work as advertised, do what they're supposed to do / how they're supposed to do it / when they're supposed to do it?

Nah, can't be. We must be liars, delusional or got to hand assemble our phones