[ccrx]

So as I was sitting here in Starbucks pondering all these OS releases and I had a theory. Please understand that this just a theory and not an assumption by any stretch of the imagination.

What if RIM is purposefully making these releases buggy with the intention of not finding their weak points but instead trying to find their most solid, strong points. Once they release enough to cover all the aspects of the OS, they simply merge the good parts of code from each OS together in one 'End them All' OS that'll be completely rock solid.

Now I'm sure from a design process standpoint this can be done unintentionally, but what if RiM is doing it intentionally. Think about it, every official and leaked OS had different STRONG points. Just imagine them all merger into one. That would he awesome.

What do my fellow Crackberrians think?

Mmmm....Latte. :-)

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[brothamoveson]

Very interesting theory.

[BADIC]

They have only "released" one and its not "buggy" just slow.

[KoH]

Slow can be considered buggy. Although, there are a lot of just blatant bugs along with .75 as well. Which is why so many have upgraded to beta OSs. Saying .75 is not "buggy" is a laugh.

Good theory, unfortunately I don't think the code works like that. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe they'll find a way to merge it all together and they're taking precautions now to ensure that, who knows. Good theory, though.

[ccrx]

They have only "released" one and its not "buggy" just slow.

Yes I know they've only officially released one, or two if you count .76, but they 'have' allowed the leaks to get out there. I'm pretty sure they can take steps to greatly limit that. I'm pretty sure though, that they intentionally let the leaks, leak. Know what I mean.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[kevinwd]

Seems complicated and against every facet of software development. I think they are just behind the 8 ball because Verizon was pressuring them to bring it to market.

[1magine]

Wishful thinking. Not how software engineers typically think, especially about their RCs. These may be leaked - but they are complete OSs that Rim has reviewed and approved and sent on to VZW for final ok. Thankfully VZW has said "no f-en way!" to each of them.

The issue I think was best explained in another post about how the hardware components are possibly (likely?) very different on different devices. While RIM's test devices may all be identical down to the last resistor, the publicly released devices may vary the individual components wildly. This may be the cause of the whack -a- mole effect of nailing down speed increases in one area and breaking an entirely different area - like no BT audio with video playback, or speeding up camera response but LED issue/ WAP browser issue/ phone ap issue.

I hope I'm wrong - it would not be the first time, but my engineer friends seem to agree with the poster who pointed out the possibility of outsourcing to the cheapest supplier, different components or even the same component, may be to blame for the inconsistancies. The other alternative is software engineering teams not working well together, and no one properly QCing the final product.

[bigman2]

I think you're helping demonstrate the validity of this new study that shows too much caffeine (as little as 7 cups of coffee a day) can promote an increase in both audible and visual hallucinations of a paranoid nature.

[LWS-Design]

What if RIM is purposefully making these releases buggy with the intention of not finding their weak points but instead trying to find their most solid, strong points. Once they release enough to cover all the aspects of the OS, they simply merge the good parts of code from each OS together in one 'End them All' OS that'll be completely rock solid.

Strong Points are directly influenced by Weak Points. You fix a weak point and it can indirectly weaken a strong point. I have never heard of an OS release that worked for everybody the first time. I believe it is simply a matter of time, once enough phones are reporting errors and those errors are fixed you will have an OS that works most of the time. I think they have adopted the MS philosophy of release it now and fix it after the next major OS release.

What if RiM is doing it intentionally. Think about it, every official and leaked OS had different STRONG points. Just imagine them all merger into one. That would he awesome.

That release date will coincide with World Peace and free Data Plans.

[ccrx]

Wishful thinking. Not how software engineers typically think, especially about their RCs. These may be leaked - but they are complete OSs that Rim has reviewed and approved and sent on to VZW for final ok. Thankfully VZW has said "no f-en way!" to each of them.

The issue I think was best explained in another post about how the hardware components are possibly (likely?) very different on different devices. While RIM's test devices may all be identical down to the last resistor, the publicly released devices may vary the individual components wildly. This may be the cause of the whack -a- mole effect of nailing down speed increases in one area and breaking an entirely different area - like no BT audio with video playback, or speeding up camera response but LED issue/ WAP browser issue/ phone ap issue.

I hope I'm wrong - it would not be the first time, but my engineer friends seem to agree with the poster who pointed out the possibility of outsourcing to the cheapest supplier, different components or even the same component, may be to blame for the inconsistancies. The other alternative is software engineering teams not working well together, and no one properly QCing the final product.

Then how come. .75&.76 are pretty much solid, slow, but solid releases? Could QC really be that bad?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[ccrx]

I think you're helping demonstrate the validity of this new study that shows too much caffeine (as little as 7 cups of coffee a day) can promote an increase in both audible and visual hallucinations of a paranoid nature.

I guess that makes sense for someone whose a coffee drinker, but I certainly am not. Before this the last coffee related drink I had was about 2-3 months ago. Caffeine has nothing on me.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[howardb]

Not the way development really works... Unfortunately I think you're mistaken here.

[Devlyn16]

Simply put you don't design a house by building 4 of them differently then taking the strongest parts from each and finally build a 5th, but stronger house.

I'm of the opinion that 60% of the problems are the result of 3rd party apps which were designed with slower OS and/or the emulator as a proving ground.
When the speedier OS versions Leaked this is causing unforeseen problems. Combine this with potential for "Oil & water" issues between apps running on the OS and the end result is people balming RIM/Verizon for issues that are out of their control.

the remaining 40% of problems are typical "Squash one bug and it creates another" programing issues. These can be laid at the feet of RIM but that is like yelling at the plumber who has to make a hole in the drywall to repair your pipes.

[JoshH37]

The only thing that stands suspicious in the .8 series would be the fact they have not fixed the media card/ verizon splash screen.. I would think that fix would be first priority as for some it leaves the phone useless.

[bigman2]

The only thing that stands suspicious in the .8 series would be the fact they have not fixed the media card/ verizon splash screen.. I would think that fix would be first priority as for some it leaves the phone useless.

I'm sure it's being worked on, but sometimes the simplest bugs can be the hardest to fix.

There was a story on Slashdot yesterday about this long standing performance hindering bug in Linux. For weeks to months people have been trying to isolate the cause of this bug without success. Finally someone managed to figure out a way to consistently reproduce the bug, and it turns out everyone was having such a hard time pinning this bug down, because it was being caused by something seemingly unrelated. Everyone was looking for the obvious solution, when in actuality, there wasn't one.

Odds are it's just proving to be far more elusive than they thought. But you can bet it's a known bug, and one they are looking to squash quickly.

[reactortrip]

I'm pretty sure though, that they intentionally let the leaks, leak. Know what I mean.

pretty much, beta testers where you don't shoulder the responsibility of their testing it on their phone and you being responsible for the damages and they freely post all they learn on internet. Not a bad deal.

[s54]

what a dumb ass theory













































j/k

[bigman2]

pretty much, beta testers where you don't shoulder the responsibility of their testing it on their phone and you being responsible for the damages and they freely post all they learn on internet. Not a bad deal.

Except for when, oh say, someone hoses their phone while installing a leaked update and takes it back to Verizon to get a replacement. Verizon then sends it back to RIM, who very quickly figures out what happened, but is none the less out a fair bit of money.

It's a nice sounding theory until you start analyzing it a bit.

[cray1000]

yeah software development doesnt work this way.

the issue is this.

lets say you have several parts of the OS.

we take best part from one os, the best parts from another os, and then finally the last best parts from the last os.

the problem is that when you put these seperate parts in one os, its likely to be extremely buggy.

[hdbulldog4]

I think WE are the beta testers. Send the OS out into the real world and see what happens. Then monitor the results to see what needs to be fixed and start prioritizing the fixes. It is the best way to figure out where the problems are. Pretty cheap R&D.

I know someone who knows someone who says if you forward this to ten of your friends you will get a gift card for Applebees.

[ccrx]

I know someone who knows someone who says if you forward this to ten of your friends you will get a gift card for Applebees.

Aw Applebees. I was hoping for Outback.

[mtoomey79]

All theories are plausible.

However...

This device would seemingly be the first in the history of gadgetry to use this glidepath of leaked OSs alongside a batch of somewhat working devices.

Can we not yet accept the fact the Storm was not yet ready to be released and Verizon badly needed to compete against the iPhone?

[bigman2]

Can we not yet accept the fact the Storm was not yet ready to be released and Verizon badly needed to compete against the iPhone?

Yes, and no. Yes, it probably should have been held back a bit longer, but no Verizon doesn't need to compete against the Jesus Phone at all.

I don't care how many ***** pundits put forth the idea that the Storm was supposed to be this great and wonderful Jesus Phone killer, it's not true. Clearly some ideas were inspired by, or borrowed from, the Jesus Phone, but love it or hate it, it has been a very successful device and does do some things quite well. So it makes sense that RIM might poach some ideas from a successful device out there. You think they didn't borrow some ideas from Palm for the PDA aspects, just like pretty much every other PDA software/device maker over the last 10-15 years? Doesn't mean they're aiming to be a Palm killer, though to a large degree it might have ended up that way.

The Storm is very simply RIM's attempt at appealing to the masses more. They've pretty well done all they can in terms of growth in the enterprise market, so what does that leave them with? A decision to either expand into the mass market or stick to their niche and ultimately watch as Apple and Microsoft slowly push them out of business completely is what.

I do not understand why it is everyone insists on this mentality of "there can be only one." Was there a Highlander marathon on recently I was unaware of or something? Why can't the Storm simply be a Blackberry that is designed to have some mass appeal? Why must everything that bears even a passing resemblance to the Jesus Phone automatically be thought of as a Jesus Phone killer?

And for that matter, Verizon doesn't really need to compete with anyone right now. So long as they have the most expansive network, and they maintain their high levels of service within that network, they are the ones to beat, not the other way around. Ever wonder why it is Verizon can get away with nickel and diming the crap out of you, and offering a rather pitiful selection of phones? Why would people choose Verizon over Sprint, when Sprint offers unlimited data, texting, airtime, all for $60/mo? Or why not jump over to AT&T to get in on some sweet Jesus Phone action? By hook or crook, Verizon has the best infrastructure, and given the cost of putting up a new cell tower, it's a gap that's likely only going to widen in favor of big red. So, when you get down to it, cell service that's only available in specific geographic locations is of limited utility compared to service that's good virtually nationwide.

[Iceman]

Yes, and no. Yes, it probably should have been held back a bit longer, but no Verizon doesn't need to compete against the Jesus Phone at all.

I don't care how many ***** pundits put forth the idea that the Storm was supposed to be this great and wonderful Jesus Phone killer, it's not true. Clearly some ideas were inspired by, or borrowed from, the Jesus Phone, but love it or hate it, it has been a very successful device and does do some things quite well. So it makes sense that RIM might poach some ideas from a successful device out there. You think they didn't borrow some ideas from Palm for the PDA aspects, just like pretty much every other PDA software/device maker over the last 10-15 years? Doesn't mean they're aiming to be a Palm killer, though to a large degree it might have ended up that way.

The Storm is very simply RIM's attempt at appealing to the masses more. They've pretty well done all they can in terms of growth in the enterprise market, so what does that leave them with? A decision to either expand into the mass market or stick to their niche and ultimately watch as Apple and Microsoft slowly push them out of business completely is what.

I do not understand why it is everyone insists on this mentality of "there can be only one." Was there a Highlander marathon on recently I was unaware of or something? Why can't the Storm simply be a Blackberry that is designed to have some mass appeal? Why must everything that bears even a passing resemblance to the Jesus Phone automatically be thought of as a Jesus Phone killer?

And for that matter, Verizon doesn't really need to compete with anyone right now. So long as they have the most expansive network, and they maintain their high levels of service within that network, they are the ones to beat, not the other way around. Ever wonder why it is Verizon can get away with nickel and diming the crap out of you, and offering a rather pitiful selection of phones? Why would people choose Verizon over Sprint, when Sprint offers unlimited data, texting, airtime, all for $60/mo? Or why not jump over to AT&T to get in on some sweet Jesus Phone action? By hook or crook, Verizon has the best infrastructure, and given the cost of putting up a new cell tower, it's a gap that's likely only going to widen in favor of big red. So, when you get down to it, cell service that's only available in specific geographic locations is of limited utility compared to service that's good virtually nationwide.

Very well said bigman...yeah I kinda agree that the storm was just simply an attempt to get a better blackberry out rather than be the iphone killer. I think RIM knows that they have ppl who will buy bb no matter what and that on the contrary apple will have ppl who will buy their iphone.

[mtoomey79]

Yes, and no. Yes, it probably should have been held back a bit longer, but no Verizon doesn't need to compete against the Jesus Phone at all.

Agreed to an extent. By frequenting these forums, it is clear a number of folks, have decided upon the Storm. Whether it is their first cellphone, first "smartphone" or they decided against the iPhone. In the same vein, I bunch of folks also jumped the VZW ship to go with the iPhone. I'm not a marketing dude, so I don't know the figures of VZW subscribers three months before the launch of the iPhone versus current VZW subscribers.

I don't care how many ***** pundits put forth the idea that the Storm was supposed to be this great and wonderful Jesus Phone killer, it's not true. Clearly some ideas were inspired by, or borrowed from, the Jesus Phone, but love it or hate it, it has been a very successful device and does do some things quite well. So it makes sense that RIM might poach some ideas from a successful device out there. You think they didn't borrow some ideas from Palm for the PDA aspects, just like pretty much every other PDA software/device maker over the last 10-15 years? Doesn't mean they're aiming to be a Palm killer, though to a large degree it might have ended up that way.

I could be wrong, but VZWs first crack at the iPhone was the Dare for all intents and purposes. Their actual attempt at the iPhone was probably the Storm. With the Storm being about two years after the launch of the iPhone, arguements could be made that RIM was merely succumbing to demand for a touchscreen, which is plausible so far as I'm concerned. I don't look at my 9530 as an "iPhone killer", more like the next evolution in BBs as they relate to the market. If I wanted an iPhone, personally, I would have jumped a while back.

The Storm is very simply RIM's attempt at appealing to the masses more. They've pretty well done all they can in terms of growth in the enterprise market, so what does that leave them with? A decision to either expand into the mass market or stick to their niche and ultimately watch as Apple and Microsoft slowly push them out of business completely is what.

Agreed. I would be interested to see what direction the enterprise market is heading to...whether it is a 95XX or if they are holding out for other devices. I am not on enterprise, but it just seems to me that market would not make the 95XX their next move in the enterprise market.

I do not understand why it is everyone insists on this mentality of "there can be only one." Was there a Highlander marathon on recently I was unaware of or something? Why can't the Storm simply be a Blackberry that is designed to have some mass appeal? Why must everything that bears even a passing resemblance to the Jesus Phone automatically be thought of as a Jesus Phone killer?

The 9530 is a Blackberry. Nothing more and nothing less. Integrated pushed email is the feature...not beer drinking apps or places to pick your next meal apps.

And for that matter, Verizon doesn't really need to compete with anyone right now. So long as they have the most expansive network, and they maintain their high levels of service within that network, they are the ones to beat, not the other way around. Ever wonder why it is Verizon can get away with nickel and diming the crap out of you, and offering a rather pitiful selection of phones? Why would people choose Verizon over Sprint, when Sprint offers unlimited data, texting, airtime, all for $60/mo? Or why not jump over to AT&T to get in on some sweet Jesus Phone action? By hook or crook, Verizon has the best infrastructure, and given the cost of putting up a new cell tower, it's a gap that's likely only going to widen in favor of big red. So, when you get down to it, cell service that's only available in specific geographic locations is of limited utility compared to service that's good virtually nationwide.

The more I hear about the outages ATT is going through make me cringe for those folks on that network. I know I would be going nuts if VZW was going through the same situation.

Someone wrote a few days ago that we are not entitled to these OS leaks like we think we are. Without overusing the phrase "to an extent", but to an extent this is true. I think I also read where support for the original iPhone is ceasing soon. This should be a realistic expectation for all first generation 9530 owners as well.

Long reply...sorry.