05-16-09 01:42 PM
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  1. gschaefer612's Avatar
    Lame no it doesn't and I don't think this will happen

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-13-09 10:08 PM
  2. techitrucker's Avatar
    Tech... I think you gotta re-read what I wrote again.

    The Samsung chip has 1 Gb storage (oneNAND) and 128 Mb mobile DDR (ram - application memory) on one chip.

    The common misconception people have is they think there's a 1gig memory chip that acts as storage AND RAM (application memory)

    And they say "there's only one memory chip" and use that as "proof" that the Storm uses some partition on a NAND memory chip for app memory.

    And OP: here's the point.

    There's 128MB of ram - application memory - on the Storm. You can't change that. Ever. It's not software controlled.

    You might be able to do a RAM Drive type thing. But you'll get subpar performance. A RAM Drive would allocate storage memory as artificial ram - or artificial application memory. But the problem is, the memory you use for storage is physically a lot slower than the memory you use for ram. And the APIs probably don't exist to allow for such a program to be made.
    I see what you are saying and we are pretty much in agreement except for the RAM drive type thing. Program memory is only used for two things in a JAVA environment like BBOS. Storing programs and caching information for open programs though caching in this environment is a little different than on say a Windows box. The cache here is mostly just a text file that tells the program running on the Ram what has been done, what is waiting to be done and what it expects to do next. The programs people are always complaining leak, Plazmick being among the worst, just keep adding to that file, sometimes at a rapid clip without ever getting rid of crap thats already been addressed or is no longer needed. The reason this is needed is there is no cache or only a small one on the CPU's RIM is using. You could easily have programs loaded from the 800+ mb of nand flash or even the micro SD card without a large hit if any on performance if BBOS for enforce even some minimal rules on how programs operate but unfortunately they don't. Rumour is that 5.0 is going to allow programs to be installed on other parts of the BB other than the program memory, so they are going to need to address this shortcoming soon if that is the case. The slowdown that would cause would not even be because of using the the additional storage but because people will want to be running even more poorly formed programs in the backround than even now. The cache would still need to be on the program memory which is a JAVA requirement filling it up even faster. This would be akin too trying to write 10 8mb blocks of information to the 6 4mb blocks left on a Windows machine if the disk where full as and example. The disk would be thrashing around trying to move things around to better spaces trying to open up the blocks that would be needed to write that data causing a general slowdown. Its the problem we have right now and it would be made worse with more storage available for applications. Of course RIM could start with Plazmick now. For the life of me I can't figure out why third party themes need to be run as what is for all intents and purposes are little mini apps that eat so much memory up over time.
    05-14-09 12:21 AM
  3. techitrucker's Avatar
    This is how it should be in theory, but the proven fact that the more apps you load in app memory the slower the phone operates would belie this. If it was using separate RAM for operation of programs, then you could theoretically fill the application memory to 0mb remaining and programs would still run. Also, you wouldn't see a dip in the app memory when you opened a program.

    Just because the Storm has the RAM available doesn't mean that RIM is utilizing properly, or at all. Every indication shows that they are not. It looks more as if they are using the app memory in a manner equivalent to swap memory on a PC.
    You are right and wrong. The reason you really can't go below a certain level is because different programs write to the memory with blocks of data of differing sizes and just like a hard drive, this data is not written in a linear manner but in the first place that it will fit. When you get to a certain level of memory, there may be 10 times more space needed to write a certain file for and operation but there may no be enough blocks available of the proper size to fit because of the nand equivalent of fragmentation. This is what causes the majority of freeze ups and crashes on this device and most others. You see the dip in memory precisely because they are using the nand as a sort of swap memory, though instead of code, like on windows it is a sort of text file. As far as using it properly, that would be a function of the tools RIM makes available for writing programs. They do not seem to provide tight enforcement and that is probably a result of them trying to make it easier for new developers to make programs to run on the Blackberry.
    05-14-09 12:36 AM
  4. patches152's Avatar
    novels = not for teh interwebz....
    05-14-09 12:50 AM
  5. techitrucker's Avatar
    novels = not for teh interwebz....
    If you have nothing constructive to bring to the discussion, you oughta shut up pal. Some of us are actually having a civil debate here instead of flaming other users for a change. Just because you waste enough time in forums to have the arbitrary monicker of genius does not make it a fact.
    05-14-09 03:26 AM
  6. patches152's Avatar
    If you have nothing constructive to bring to the discussion, you oughta shut up pal. Some of us are actually having a civil debate here instead of flaming other users for a change. Just because you waste enough time in forums to have the arbitrary monicker of genius does not make it a fact.
    hey i never asked for the "moniker"...i'd rather just be patches, no titles. i don't care about post count. most of mine are stupid posts like the one i just did anyway. and i've never claimed to know everything. i'm one of the first to admit when i DON'T know something. if you can't take a joke, and relax....well, idk. i'm sure you'll figure it out. and i'm totally supportive of what you're discussing, but i'm also trying to have a little fun while i'm at it and not get all bent out of shape like the rest of this place. if you can't enjoy what you're doing it isn't worth doing in the first place.

    now bring on the smart, i wanna learn some shizz
    05-14-09 03:31 AM
  7. DarwinMejia's Avatar
    Well just skimmed through this thread and it sounds like it CAN'T be done, or should I get some sleep and try again in eight hrs?
    Lol

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-14-09 06:19 AM
  8. littlegreenmen's Avatar
    If you have nothing constructive to bring to the discussion, you oughta shut up pal. Some of us are actually having a civil debate here instead of flaming other users for a change. Just because you waste enough time in forums to have the arbitrary monicker of genius does not make it a fact.
    i agree with overall assessment of this statement but not with the person its directed to. patches has givin some pretty important info in the past. very helpful stuff. yes from what ive read of his stuff he comes across crass and all that but nothing offensive i think. if you notice none of the usual thread trollers have come close to this thread. only so far printing someone elses info will get them. in something like this theyre completely lost. so ease up on patches,smarta-- yea but again so what he provides solid info.
    05-14-09 11:51 AM
  9. Tripletrouble's Avatar
    Make it a keg of Bud and I'll throw my $.02 in
    Me too and then I'll change the subject to somthing a little more interesting than a phone.
    05-14-09 12:21 PM
  10. techitrucker's Avatar
    hey i never asked for the "moniker"...i'd rather just be patches, no titles. i don't care about post count. most of mine are stupid posts like the one i just did anyway. and i've never claimed to know everything. i'm one of the first to admit when i DON'T know something. if you can't take a joke, and relax....well, idk. i'm sure you'll figure it out. and i'm totally supportive of what you're discussing, but i'm also trying to have a little fun while i'm at it and not get all bent out of shape like the rest of this place. if you can't enjoy what you're doing it isn't worth doing in the first place.

    now bring on the smart, i wanna learn some shizz
    I'll accept that. I'm sorry if I sounded like and a'hole, but you just get tired of all the flaming and general bull from little adolescents around here butting into other peoples constructive conversations. I did not realize it was a joke and went off a bit. I will admit, those posts where a little long though but saw no simpler way of making the explanation.
    05-15-09 01:40 AM
  11. patches152's Avatar
    i'm sorry too

    now for me to share some smart with you...

    when you're typing an epically huge post, just hit enter twice every once in awhile

    like this, so that it breaks it up into smaller reading pieces.

    ya know?

    can we still be friends?
    05-15-09 01:42 AM
  12. techitrucker's Avatar
    i'm sorry too

    now for me to share some smart with you...

    when you're typing an epically huge post, just hit enter twice every once in awhile

    like this, so that it breaks it up into smaller reading pieces.

    ya know?

    can we still be friends?
    Sure, why not. You apparently have not seen one of my epically long run on sentences yet though. They are even better than the paragraphs and start with "Your never gonna believe this, but...."
    05-15-09 02:27 AM
  13. patches152's Avatar
    pix or it didn't happen
    05-15-09 10:35 AM
  14. jdoner1's Avatar
    I think it's time for a battery pull....
    05-16-09 01:42 PM
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