05-16-09 01:42 PM
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  1. regnif19's Avatar
    Holy crap this is super interesting but way over my head lol. it would be sweet if it could work.
    05-13-09 12:39 PM
  2. Sperethiel's Avatar
    In SUPER lay man's terms.....

    We CALL it app MEMORY, but it isn't the same kind of MEMORY you store your porn on.

    You cannot do it to blackberries...and even if you could (and someone else mentioned this), having that much APP memory would destroy your battery life.

    These phones are built with an AMAZING amount of balance between storage, RAM, and power management.
    05-13-09 12:47 PM
  3. stanfna#AC's Avatar
    very informative! thanks guys!

    so i went to the Samsung link above and saw the Flex-OneNAND chips. It said "One characteristic of Flex-OneNAND is that it allows users to adjust memory capacity and speed."

    fingers crossed....do we have that type of chip? (my guess is no)

    if we did, that would be perfect...let the consumer decide how much app space they need. sounds like more app space = reduced speeds. let the consumer decide on their own devices.

    Storm 2 maybe?
    Last edited by Stanfna; 05-13-09 at 01:17 PM.
    05-13-09 01:09 PM
  4. davebuck's Avatar
    I don't know the difference BUT, why isn't there more RAM? There is 900MB device memory, 8000MB, media memory card, but only 128MB of application memory. Most of us are using about 75%of the Application memory and minimal amounts or the storage. Perhaps the STORM2 should have 256 MB or more for application memory. Is it possible to upgrade that? That should speeds things up a bit?
    05-13-09 01:32 PM
  5. Romple's Avatar
    I don't know the difference BUT, why isn't there more RAM? There is 900MB device memory, 8000MB, media memory card, but only 128MB of application memory. Most of us are using about 75%of the Application memory and minimal amounts or the storage. Perhaps the STORM2 should have 256 MB or more for application memory. Is it possible to upgrade that? That should speeds things up a bit?

    Because you have to constantly refresh RAM, hence it's a constant power draw.

    128 MB is actually fairly sufficient. If it weren't for memory leaks you'd probably never notice.

    the Gig of storage memory is dormant until you read it. so it takes a fraction of the power than RAM does.

    256MB would definitely be nice, but you'll be sacrificing battery life and you'll be paying more. It wouldn't necessarily speed things up though.

    If your phone runs fine with 20 megs of ram free, it won't run any better with 148 megs of ram free.
    05-13-09 01:50 PM
  6. Mafguard's Avatar
    awsome info guys thanks!

    what about buying 1 gig RAM for a computer, attaching some wires to it and sticking the other side of the wires to the micro usb port?


    =) it's a joke do not try it at home!
    05-13-09 01:50 PM
  7. patches152's Avatar
    my feeble mind has picked out these points

    bigger memory allocation, uses more energy

    we don't need MORE memory, we need more efficent use and management of what we have?

    wow, that last one sort of sounds familiar doesnt it?
    05-13-09 01:53 PM
  8. davebuck's Avatar
    Now we are making progress. It is too bad none of the crackberry heads couldn't become president. I think Washington DC has only 64MB of RAM and wastes a lot of energy trying to make any thing work with it
    05-13-09 02:06 PM
  9. patches152's Avatar
    i nominate my pwnzorship abilities to the gov't...i'll clean house!
    05-13-09 02:07 PM
  10. arcanexvi's Avatar
    my feeble mind has picked out these points

    bigger memory allocation, uses more energy

    we don't need MORE memory, we need more efficent use and management of what we have?

    wow, that last one sort of sounds familiar doesnt it?
    you and your crazy talk... we all know RIM doesn't operate like that
    05-13-09 02:21 PM
  11. ddarvish's Avatar
    i dont know if it impossible to be done.. It used to be impossible to assign another program to the lock key, impossible to disable the acceleromator, impossible to disable all the keys on the phone using a program like iphone slider lock..... ALL TILL IT BECAME POSSIBLE!!!
    05-13-09 02:21 PM
  12. spierce7's Avatar
    Lol. I'm pretty sure this is not possible. I don't know anything about the hardware of the phone. Lol

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-13-09 03:14 PM
  13. Romple's Avatar
    i dont know if it impossible to be done.. It used to be impossible to assign another program to the lock key, impossible to disable the acceleromator, impossible to disable all the keys on the phone using a program like iphone slider lock..... ALL TILL IT BECAME POSSIBLE!!!
    Sure, it's possible. All RIM needs to do is use a chip with 256MB DDR in it instead of 128

    Hardware is... hard... for a reason ;-p
    05-13-09 03:19 PM
  14. martinerwin's Avatar
    you would pretty much have to write the OS from the ground up, then you couldn't sell because you would have to use copyrighted code for all the regular BB functions to work. You could, though, probably sell it RIM for a small fortune.
    05-13-09 03:38 PM
  15. Giant Cashew's Avatar
    Tech... I think you gotta re-read what I wrote again.

    The Samsung chip has 1 Gb storage (oneNAND) and 128 Mb mobile DDR (ram - application memory) on one chip.

    The common misconception people have is they think there's a 1gig memory chip that acts as storage AND RAM (application memory)

    And they say "there's only one memory chip" and use that as "proof" that the Storm uses some partition on a NAND memory chip for app memory.

    And OP: here's the point.

    There's 128MB of ram - application memory - on the Storm. You can't change that. Ever. It's not software controlled.

    You might be able to do a RAM Drive type thing. But you'll get subpar performance. A RAM Drive would allocate storage memory as artificial ram - or artificial application memory. But the problem is, the memory you use for storage is physically a lot slower than the memory you use for ram. And the APIs probably don't exist to allow for such a program to be made.
    Application memory is NOT RAM. The Storm does have traditional RAM, but the 128MB of application memory is flash.

    Application memory is obviously non-volatile because applications are stored there. The free space in the application block is used by the OS for paging. This is why a) installing applications decreases the free application memory and b) the free application memory fluctuates as you use your phone.

    This becomes even more obvious when you poll the memory statistics using the net.rim.device.api.system.Memory class.
    Last edited by Giant Cashew; 05-13-09 at 03:53 PM.
    05-13-09 03:45 PM
  16. patches152's Avatar
    do we need spec sheets and a keg to solve this dispute?
    05-13-09 03:46 PM
  17. SilverLight98's Avatar
    great idea, also make an app that can make use of those wi-fi SD cards... that might be easier to do but just as good of a change (you could make a ton of $ because there are a ton of BB's without wi-fi)
    05-13-09 03:59 PM
  18. jmore's Avatar
    Ye who have little faith step aside. I've seen so many obsticles that may have come our way and we break them down. I believe its possible. For those who are negative about this even being possible, it doesn't help to pound in the intelligent minds that its not possible... let them do their thing dammit... Just had to vent...
    05-13-09 04:36 PM
  19. patches152's Avatar
    i still think if we had a spec sheet and a keg of fat tire, we could knock this out tonight!
    05-13-09 05:38 PM
  20. Giant Cashew's Avatar
    Ye who have little faith step aside. I've seen so many obsticles that may have come our way and we break them down. I believe its possible. For those who are negative about this even being possible, it doesn't help to pound in the intelligent minds that its not possible... let them do their thing dammit... Just had to vent...
    Theoretically it is possible. It would require disassembling the OS, which would be extremely difficult, especially because it is proprietary. No one has ever succeeded in jailbreaking the OS, nevermind disassembling the entire thing, and it's been around for ten years. RIM's security model is the best in the business and is coveted by just about everyone. Plus, it'd be almost impossible to figure out where to even look to change something like this.

    Time travel is also possible. In theory. You can't count it out, but it won't be happening any time soon.
    Last edited by Giant Cashew; 05-13-09 at 06:04 PM.
    05-13-09 05:43 PM
  21. Giant Cashew's Avatar
    I wonder if something like this would be along the lines of "jailbreaking" that other phone? I don't own one so I don't know what exactly that means, but I would guess it's some kind of OS hack. Can anybody hack the BB OS? That would be interesting to see....
    Jailbreaking refers to bypassing restrictions in an operating system that allow actions to be performed with more privileges than intended. In the context of an iPhone, it simply means bypassing Apple's restrictions that prevent applications not purchased through the App Store from running.

    What the original poster is asking for is literally changing the executable code of RIM's operating system. Very different, and much more difficult, than jailbreaking.
    05-13-09 05:53 PM
  22. martinerwin's Avatar
    ...Programs DO NOT RUN in this area....Period. They run on RAM just like any other computer. This may be confusing but whether or not its on one Fusion chip or many, there are two areas of flash, non volatile like a disk and one of RAM....
    This is how it should be in theory, but the proven fact that the more apps you load in app memory the slower the phone operates would belie this. If it was using separate RAM for operation of programs, then you could theoretically fill the application memory to 0mb remaining and programs would still run. Also, you wouldn't see a dip in the app memory when you opened a program.

    Just because the Storm has the RAM available doesn't mean that RIM is utilizing properly, or at all. Every indication shows that they are not. It looks more as if they are using the app memory in a manner equivalent to swap memory on a PC.
    05-13-09 06:00 PM
  23. ncsttsccr's Avatar
    from what i'm getting here there fundamental disagreement on how the internal chip is coded...

    some believe the single chip has a seperate nand portion specifically set at 128MB by samsung used to run apps which it was built with and cannot be changed versus a remaining amount of ddr used to store apps (if so desired)

    others believe that the ratio is not set by samsung and is instead chosen by RIM and therefor the possibility would exist to change that ratio, even if RIM were to be the only one able to do it...

    but i think all agree that there would be no problem if apps for the storm were designed better to prevent memory leaks and increasing ram would cause increased drain on power.

    so it seems to me thats where the focus should be...if there could be some way to almost 'force' developers to better control their app's self-cleaning abilities that would the problems without worrying about the ratio of RAM to DDR
    05-13-09 08:20 PM
  24. Wizard101's Avatar
    i still think if we had a spec sheet and a keg of fat tire, we could knock this out tonight!
    Make it a keg of Bud and I'll throw my $.02 in
    05-13-09 08:53 PM
  25. tghockey07's Avatar
    Jailbreaking refers to bypassing restrictions in an operating system that allow actions to be performed with more privileges than intended. In the context of an iPhone, it simply means bypassing Apple's restrictions that prevent applications not purchased through the App Store from running.

    What the original poster is asking for is literally changing the executable code of RIM's operating system. Very different, and much more difficult, than jailbreaking.
    You can get a program on jailbroken iphones called bosstool and that puts all your fonts, apps, and another thing I just forgot on the device memory part. Maybe the iphone really does have an app for everything?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-13-09 09:02 PM
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