05-16-09 01:42 PM
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  1. retrowatts's Avatar
    Well Here is the Challenge and this is no easy task
    This is only for the true hardcore programmers noobs need not apply

    Right now i got the latest in the hybrid os 141/5 and it is great. given the fact that i only use my microsd for all media i dont need the device memory at all, now it seems to me that the device memory and the application memory use the same physical source of memory, seeing as how there are some amazing programmers and developers and hackers out there, i decided to try my best in provoking them to take on this task.

    The Task is simple Get rid of device memory, by merging it onto application memory!

    And what are the spoils of victory here well that's simple who ever can successfully do this task will flip the Storm user community upside down, this will make the storm a beast with nearly unlimited amount of progarms running at least at this point of time and will also make the storm nearly lag free in all respects!

    so there it is
    05-12-09 07:53 AM
  2. TipTheScales's Avatar
    is there a reward for said challenge?
    05-12-09 08:02 AM
  3. fonebrkr's Avatar
    is there a reward for said challenge?
    Brudda, the writer of that app won't be punching a time clock anymore....
    05-12-09 08:04 AM
  4. BatterdStarfish's Avatar
    Brudda, the writer of that app won't be punching a time clock anymore....
    I hear that!!
    05-12-09 08:15 AM
  5. retrowatts's Avatar
    A prize well maybe if someone actually makes a working solution ill start a fund raiser to raise as much money as i can for the person or persons involved.
    05-12-09 08:23 AM
  6. dbK's Avatar
    No need for a prize. Write the software, sell it for $50/license, watch the money come in.
    05-12-09 08:26 AM
  7. borderwave2's Avatar
    All you're doing is creating a ramdisk. We've got some pretty smart cookies here, I'm sure someone can figure it out.
    05-12-09 09:22 AM
  8. retrowatts's Avatar
    I know we got some extremely smart people i had around 20 mb's of application memory and my BB storm began to run slow, then i updated my os and shrunk it plus used some techniques i found on these forums to boots it to 40 mb's and my Storm start to run a lot better but that's what got me to think has no one thought of combining the 2 together before i think people have but just haven't posted or at least i couldn't find it, just imagine if someone actually does combine the 2, it would mean virtually no lag or slowdowns, and would also mean we no longer have to compromise on how many apps or games we want on our storms.
    05-12-09 09:31 AM
  9. gozirra's Avatar
    This isn't something in the API (in other words, not changable by us low-lifes). Its a fundamental part of the OS, and would have to be changed in the OS itself. Reprogramming the OS isn't something available to us. Hybrid builders, contrary to misguided popular belief, are NOT reprogramming the OS.

    So in other words, not possible. This is something RIM would have to do.
    05-12-09 09:35 AM
  10. retrowatts's Avatar
    Gozirra i hear you loud and clear, and i do believe you when you say what you say but don't you think maybe that .01 % chance, that maybe just maybe someone out there has the skills and the available hardware to do this im not saying its easy or even likly to ever happen but as for right now i still gotta cross my fingers and hope. just by chance even tho you seem very opposed to this being done and i don't blame you but if it were somehow possible wouldn't you be interested?
    05-12-09 09:41 AM
  11. safarimatt's Avatar
    I have to agree with Gozirra - you can only do what the Java APIs allow, and I am pretty sure that they don't allow this. At best, you might be able to have something move apps back and forth between device and app memory, but I bet it'll be slow and drain your battery if it even works.
    05-12-09 11:34 AM
  12. gozirra's Avatar
    On the contrary, I would LOVE to see it happen - I'm just telling you its not something WE (app builders/wishers) can make happen - we don't have access to it. Its purposely prevented. Digitally signed (by RIM) replacement OS's are the only way to update your OS. Here, try this - download a leak, change something, anything, that causes the hashcheck to fail. Change one byte in any one file. Now try to install it.

    Again, this is something that ONLY RIM can do, and they obviously have no intention of doing so.

    Like the old saying goes, wish in one hand, chit in the other, and see which one gets fuller first...
    05-12-09 03:14 PM
  13. gdoggmil04's Avatar
    I would love to see this happen and gladly pay for the app. I agree that this would only be possible if we could change the core of the OS.
    05-12-09 09:19 PM
  14. tko248's Avatar
    This is not possible, first off the internal memory is partitioned one side for system files and the other for apps/device memory. you can not just repartition it and expect future OS to recognize it and write to it.
    05-12-09 09:43 PM
  15. littlegreenmen's Avatar
    your battery will drain faster than ever.
    05-12-09 09:55 PM
  16. techitrucker's Avatar
    This isn't something in the API (in other words, not changable by us low-lifes). Its a fundamental part of the OS, and would have to be changed in the OS itself. Reprogramming the OS isn't something available to us. Hybrid builders, contrary to misguided popular belief, are NOT reprogramming the OS.

    So in other words, not possible. This is something RIM would have to do.
    If I understand the limited information we have already, this is going to be a function of OS 5.0 anyways, which is good considering every other OS thats been out for the last four years (Palm, WM, S60 and yes, even Iphone). ****, most of them even let you run apps from external storage (Iphone has none). There is and app in the App world that basically allows you to store uninstalled apps in its directory on that memory and then enable or disable the programs at will thus only using up app memory as needed. Its not ideal, but may be handy when you have occasional need for a large or leaky app that you don't use every day, at least until 5.0 gets released sometime between now and 2012.
    05-13-09 02:38 AM
  17. longtimeuser's Avatar
    The OP is an *****.

    One is RAM, the other isnt. Storing apps on the internal "disk" or an SD "disk" could be possible, but thinking that you can gain more RAM by using store (ie virtual memory) on a device like this, and not except to have things run slower, like dog **** slow, is ignorant.
    05-13-09 05:50 AM
  18. Romple's Avatar
    The Storm uses a Samsung MCP fusion memory chip. It has NAND flash memory and mobile DDR 2 ON THE SAME CHIP...

    There is no "partition". There's two physically different types of memory on one chip - oneNAND and MobileDDR.

    Here, this is the type of chip in the Storm:

    SAMSUNG Semiconductor - products - fusion memory

    If you want more app memory, RIM needs to use a higher density chip, and do some programming so the CPU can properly address it all...
    05-13-09 08:57 AM
  19. LoSt180's Avatar
    I wonder if something like this would be along the lines of "jailbreaking" that other phone? I don't own one so I don't know what exactly that means, but I would guess it's some kind of OS hack. Can anybody hack the BB OS? That would be interesting to see....
    05-13-09 09:47 AM
  20. chmaro's Avatar
    Definately have to re-write the OS. I don't know if you can make one contiguous block of Mem using the device & SD Card as you have to have some dynamic stuff going on if you remove you're SD card, resizing the partition and all.

    I'd be more happy with just having the ability to use up more of the Device memory. Typically if you have an SD Card you have a few hundred Meg of Dev Mem just sitting there.
    05-13-09 12:11 PM
  21. patches152's Avatar
    this is WAY over my head


    *backs*
    *away*
    *slowly*

    easy now, guys....eeeeaaaaaassssssyyyyyy
    05-13-09 12:20 PM
  22. techitrucker's Avatar
    The Storm uses a Samsung MCP fusion memory chip. It has NAND flash memory and mobile DDR 2 ON THE SAME CHIP...

    There is no "partition". There's two physically different types of memory on one chip - oneNAND and MobileDDR.

    Here, this is the type of chip in the Storm:

    SAMSUNG Semiconductor - products - fusion memory

    If you want more app memory, RIM needs to use a higher density chip, and do some programming so the CPU can properly address it all...
    OK and? People constantly make this mistake no matter how many times it is explained. Application memory is on Nand Flash. The other so called partition, user storage, whatever you want to call it today is also on Nand flash. The phone has 1gb of this stuff and it may very well be on a Samsung Fusion memory chip and is is set arbitrarily by RIM in the OS. It could have just as easily been 512 x 512. This is a program storage area just like a hard disk on your computer. Programs DO NOT RUN in this area....Period. They run on RAM just like any other computer. This may be confusing but whether or not its on one Fusion chip or many, there are two areas of flash, non volatile like a disk and one of RAM. The reason this is important is because no matter how you partition the flash, it will not improve real performance. You cannot increase RAM. Contrary to popular belief, you also cannot see how well the device is managing memory. What you can see, is how much of your application hard disk is available. When people are seeing what they call a memory leak, what is basically happening is a program of some sort is writing a log file or cache back to the hard drive so to speak causing it fill up not leak. All computer programs do this. Problem is, blackberries do a poor job of managing this, counting on good programmers to clear their own cache. Most progammers are idiots though. When the disk (Nand) starts to get full, performance takes a serious hit because other programs are also trying to cache info and if the Nand is fragmented, these programs have a hard time finding and empty space. I think you can figure it out from here. If you give poor programs 128 mb they will will and if you give them 512 they will still fill. The real way to fix this is to have a cache in the CPU just like a real computer and enforce its use for programs in the OS or move the OS away from JAVA and its poor disk management skills.
    05-13-09 12:21 PM
  23. patches152's Avatar
    OK and? People constantly make this mistake no matter how many times it is explained. Application memory is on Nand Flash. The other so called partition, user storage, whatever you want to call it today is also on Nand flash. The phone has 1gb of this stuff and it may very well be on a Samsung Fusion memory chip and is is set arbitrarily by RIM in the OS. It could have just as easily been 512 x 512. This is a program storage area just like a hard disk on your computer. Programs DO NOT RUN in this area....Period. They run on RAM just like any other computer. This may be confusing but whether or not its on one Fusion chip or many, there are two areas of flash, non volatile like a disk and one of RAM. The reason this is important is because no matter how you partition the flash, it will not improve real performance. You cannot increase RAM. Contrary to popular belief, you also cannot see how well the device is managing memory. What you can see, is how much of your application hard disk is available. When people are seeing what they call a memory leak, what is basically happening is a program of some sort is writing a log file or cache back to the hard drive so to speak causing it fill up not leak. All computer programs do this. Problem is, blackberries do a poor job of managing this, counting on good programmers to clear their own cache. Most progammers are idiots though. When the disk (Nand) starts to get full, performance takes a serious hit because other programs are also trying to cache info and if the Nand is fragmented, these programs have a hard time finding and empty space. I think you can figure it out from here. If you give poor programs 128 mb they will will and if you give them 512 they will still fill. The real way to fix this is to have a cache in the CPU just like a real computer and enforce its use for programs in the OS or move the OS away from JAVA and its poor disk management skills.
    please see my previous post, ASAP! its right above yours...g'head, read it....i unveil my ninja posts for all to see...
    05-13-09 12:28 PM
  24. littlegreenmen's Avatar
    so is this gonna lead back to the cpu not being used to its full potential or is that a complete cpu change altogether? only reason i ask is a while back i read a few articles and some forums about the cpu being under used.
    05-13-09 12:34 PM
  25. Romple's Avatar
    Tech... I think you gotta re-read what I wrote again.

    The Samsung chip has 1 Gb storage (oneNAND) and 128 Mb mobile DDR (ram - application memory) on one chip.

    The common misconception people have is they think there's a 1gig memory chip that acts as storage AND RAM (application memory)

    And they say "there's only one memory chip" and use that as "proof" that the Storm uses some partition on a NAND memory chip for app memory.

    And OP: here's the point.

    There's 128MB of ram - application memory - on the Storm. You can't change that. Ever. It's not software controlled.

    You might be able to do a RAM Drive type thing. But you'll get subpar performance. A RAM Drive would allocate storage memory as artificial ram - or artificial application memory. But the problem is, the memory you use for storage is physically a lot slower than the memory you use for ram. And the APIs probably don't exist to allow for such a program to be made.
    05-13-09 12:37 PM
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