06-29-10 04:05 PM
38 12
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  1. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    Every review I read is the same old ****. They go over typing, the web browser, and the apps, without getting into any of the nitty gritty of setup or day to day usage of the device for running a business. I am by no means a cellphone reviewer, but when I researched the incredible there was a lot of info I felt was missing, that I wanted to point out here. This is not based on 100% knowledge of either device, but what is apparent. If a feature is available on either device that didn't make itself quickly obvious & apparent, it's not here.

    Email, messaging

    At first I notice no push mail with the default app. I grab K9, and set it up.

    Not only do I get IMAP subfolders & push, I also get to search through subfolders.

    With the BB, I can only search through mail that is ON the device. Without BES, there is no way to sync to the device, and I couldn't justify an extra $50/mo between an exchange account & more costly verizon bill for imap folders and search.

    If I need to find something like my EIN at the drop of a hat and I'm not where my business information is, I can load up email from six months ago in the "registration" subfolder and search for EIN. With a BB I'd need to go to a computer.

    Even with applications like tiggit mail or logic mail, some of which cost money - you CANNOT search through the mail it makes available. On android, a free application offers more functionality.

    What I dislike, is the profile settings and lack of unified inbox. I can't just go through a profiles menu. I have to go to each email account and go through a few submenus just to get to the profiles. It makes setting different noises for different email accounts painful.

    Also, no unified inbox! When I work until 4 AM and wake up at 2 the next day, there are quite a few pieces of correspondence that pile up. I can devise a plan of attack on what should get done first when I see an overview of all messages: BBM, google chat, different email accounts and SMS.

    Without being able to see all of these instantly, I have to check each section first then choose what is most important to respond to. This wastes time, especially since the notification panel doesn't give as nice an overview as the unified message inbox on the storm.

    For my needs, I prefer the incredible in this department. I am not a fan of lacking a unified message inbox or PITA with profiles, but I need subfolders that I can search through. This is important to me, it always comes in handy when doing day to day business. The keyboard also doesn't lag or give some input error and restart when I type fast 15% of the time, so kudos to the incredible.

    The OS experience

    On the bberry, there is a problem I have encountered with 3 separate storms. I had 3 apps installed: google maps for finding my way around, youmail for voicemail, and opera mini for web browsing. I state this because it's constantly stated the reason for problems is too many open/stored apps, which is no the case.

    Sometimes it works very fast. Sometimes it lags ever so slightly, or stutters opening programs, inboxes, and lists. When the phone is first turned on, having security features on slows it to a crawl. For the first 10-20 seconds after it boots it's damn near useless, which I wouldn't mind if not for the horrendous boot time.

    The incredible goes from battery pull to on in under 40 seconds, which is better than the storm by a mile. It is speedy. It only lags on ONE portion, and I tried damn hard to make this thing lag. When loading music.

    When I hit the button to view a list of music by artist, there is some lag. This is the worst lag I have encountered on the incredible, and it is on par with the average lag I have experienced on the storm for nearly everything I do.

    It's about consistency. Sometimes the storm was speedy and reliable. Sometimes it lagged and would stutter, or do strange things for no reason. The incredible never plays foul. I don't have to make excuses for it. By the time I get out of what I am doing and get to the video camera the event I want to record is over, today I was able to record an EDP freaking out in a corner store in full because I was able to go from unlocking to video recorder instantly.

    Also, a feature I feel is important is voice to text. It is actually usable! Like autocorrect; you can't expect it to get strange names right, but it gets enough right that it is an amazing and useful feature. I have spoken more into this phone than I have typed, excluding the "phone" aspect of it. I talk out emails and texts regularly.

    using google maps on either makes the 2 year gap between the two obvious. google maps can work smoothly, but sometimes lag like playing an FPS on a 14.4k modem. The incredible never faltered.


    What I do miss is the mulitasking, and application permissions.

    While the storm 1 feels like a 486 DX running Windows 95, all I have to do to switch apps is keep the blackberry button down and scroll to the app I want. This is very convenient, and very missed.

    I also miss my UNIFIED INBOX. I CANNOT MENTION THIS ENOUGH. NOTIFICATION PANEL IS NICE. I WANT UNIFIED INBOX BACK.

    The storm and every other BB allowed one to set permissions for every aspect of every application installed. This is not quickly apparent on the incredible. Free yahoo apps want to use GPS data and I don't want that. I have to turn location off & on quickly via a shortcut on a home screen for when I am not using google maps. I miss setting permissions.

    web browsing

    Opera mini and bolt on the storm just aren't good enough. Sometimes I feel as if opera is not registering my touches. It can lag on occasion, but the most annoying thing about storm browsers is the zoom. It's either all the way in or all the way out with opera and bolt, whereas the android browser has pinch to zoom and even aligns text to the edges of the screen.

    When I try to click links on the default browser, if I'm not right on it, it zooms. Then it rerenders, so I have to wait a few seconds for it to render before I click the intended link or it zooms more. I'm sure some of you have gone to an ultrazoomed page on the default browser.

    Bolt just looks like trash. I could discuss a few of its bugs, but look at the fonts that thing uses. I have no desire to attempt to read an article with bolt, whatever speed it brings to the table is not worth it.

    the default incredible browser is ridiculously speedy. It never lags, you can move back and forth and load large pages without fear of your phone
    slowing down.

    Overall, my experience with the storm 1 mimicked my experience trying to use Windows 95 on a 166 MHz pentium I many years ago.
    05-09-10 01:42 AM
  2. DrewCSchultz's Avatar
    When showing someone my Nexus One (basically a Droid Incredible without the Sense UI) one of the things I do to show it off is this: open a text field, activate voice-to-text, and say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. Gets em every time.

    The reason voice to text works so great is because first it forms the sounds into individual syllables and then searches Google for relevant phrases and uses context clues to figure out the whole statement.

    That's why when you say "rubber baby buggy bumpers" or " peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers" it doesn't freak out.

    Sidenote: I only have one REAL problem with my N1, and that is the notification light. They put the light underneath the trackball, so when I miss a message it glows white. Problem is, the light is so powerful it could run Doc Brown's time machine. It is so bright, that at night it turns into a blinking nightlight. It drives my girlfriend bat****.

    Where did they put the notification light on the Incredible?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by DrewCSchultz; 05-09-10 at 03:27 AM.
    05-09-10 02:53 AM
  3. howarmat's Avatar
    you are comparing a STORM 1 to a new top of the line phone. not really a fair advantage.

    the points about email and the unified mailbox are correct for the most part. but you should be BES or BESX for sure. BIS wasnt meant for you.

    sound profiles sucks for android, i will give you that.

    i wish people would quit beating the dead horse about web browsing. RIM will have webkit soon so until then its pointless to even bring the subject up as we all know the stock browser cant compete with any webkit obviously.

    for the rest of the OS experience and the boot ups, storm 2 doesnt need reboots, like ever. and you can run google maps your music and opera with ease.

    Honestly i have both devices and i still use my storm 2 more because it does more things like they should be done. the incredible does most of the same things but sometimes you have to sit there and figure out how to make it do it.

    i am sure if you had BES and a storm 2 you would have a better experience and comparison
    05-09-10 10:09 AM
  4. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    you are comparing a STORM 1 to a new top of the line phone. not really a fair advantage.

    the points about email and the unified mailbox are correct for the most part. but you should be BES or BESX for sure. BIS wasnt meant for you.
    I know that the storm 1 and the incredible are totally not a fair comparison. Every review I read just never answered the questions I had, the inbetween the lines usage. And EVERYTHING I read on this forum is "LOLOLOL I SMASHED MY STORM F THAT SHIZZLE ANDROID PHONE HOMEY."

    I have about five email accounts I need to see folders on. BES would not have let me use subfolders with all 5.

    Also, the incredible is visible in sunlight. I was expecting it to be a RAZR from the reviews but I see it just as fine as I did my storm in direct sunlight, my old RAZR was F'ing useless in sunlight.

    With the web browsing, most people say "it has opera mini so it's fine", but it is still not the same, at all. The higher screen resolution also allows for an experience the storm 2 can't have even with OS6, or OS7, or OS12.

    I agree with you on "how things should be", I did have to do a bit of hunting to get some basic things done. Profiles are shameful on android if you're coming from a BB, and the permissions handling is a joke/nonexistant. But I like it. If I want an IRC app, instead of googling to find the only IRC app that works, I go to market, type in IRC, and several come up. I can't find an IRC, or ssh app in BB app world. I actually can never find something I need in BB app world. It seems so much more polished. I'm not an app junkie(the amount of unnecessary **** loaded on here stock is BANANAS), but I do appreciate being able to find things I need in a more cohesive fashion.

    I see the incredible as an all purpose modern smartphone, and the bb as an excellent messenger pager. I miss some of the BB features but I don't miss a lot of its flaws. I really liked how I could wake up at 2 PM and get an overview of everything awaiting me.

    I REALLY miss being able to set the vibration length. If I'm outside and it's loud, I know exactly whether it's an email, BBM, or a phone call based on the vibration length before I hear the ringtone.

    The calendar as well is to die for. With google sync on a blackberry, if there are 4-5 calendars it will throw all the events for them onto the same calendar! What if I have bookings in multiple rooms, and need to be able to tell which is in which room at a glance?

    I do battery pulls a few times a day on the storm not just for freezing but because I watch videos in transit all day and use the GPS constantly. I go through 2-3 batteries, the 5 minute startup time makes me sad. Does the storm 2 really never have that input system error where if you're typing really fast it stops keeping up with your typing?

    I wish BB could do a lot of these things but I think android has a higher likelihood of becoming the cohesive messaging experience I had on the blackberry than RIM has of gaining the positives of android.
    05-09-10 11:55 AM
  5. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    Where did they put the notification light on the Incredible?
    The light on the incredible, compared to any blackberry, is useless.It's on the upper right like a BB but it is so F'ing tiny, and it also goes on when it's charging when the phone is on so it's difficult to tell at a quick glance if I got a new message.
    05-09-10 12:00 PM
  6. icesteve's Avatar
    May not be fair to compare the two just based on release dates
    , but I will give props for a legitimate review without bashing either one.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-10 12:27 PM
  7. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    This is a terribly unfair compare & contrast, but hopefully gets across to people who bought in 08/early 09 who are getting their new every 2 what to expect if they change.
    05-09-10 12:44 PM
  8. mudpud's Avatar
    Push email is there at least with Microsoft Exchange. i'm using the HTC native app that works very well.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-09-10 03:28 PM
  9. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    Push email is there at least with Microsoft Exchange. i'm using the HTC native app that works very well.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    With K9, push mail is a non issue on the android platform.
    05-09-10 04:50 PM
  10. Tweak81's Avatar
    Yea......... in electronics speak, this comparison is like sayin I run faster than my 86 year old grandmother.

    It's the definition of apples to oranges....the Incredible has been out for a week, the S1 for 18 months now...

    And while I'm at it...everything you miss about the BB platform is exactly what they're trying (at times to a fault) to excel at...
    Last edited by Tweak81; 05-09-10 at 05:26 PM.
    05-09-10 05:21 PM
  11. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    Copy and paste on this phone SUCKS.

    You keep your finger down until you get a menu to select text in boxes. You also keep your finger down to bring up the menu that allows you to start and stop selecting.

    This is inconsistent with the browser, where it is more like the storm(but more responsive) where I touch the beginning, hold my finger down, then touch the end and it selects.

    The problem is if I keep my finger down on one part too long while selecting, I get the damn menu. This gets annoying quick.

    Why can't I just copy and paste out of boxes like that? It is so counter intuitive the default way I find myself just retyping things.

    And don't get me started on copying out of K9.

    YOU CAN'T UNLESS YOU ENTER REPLY MODE. and there is no reply button. You have to hit menu, then hit reply. Or hit menu, then hit send. There is no send button.

    Now: I have not researched the issue much, because I don't feel I should have to. I do intend to, because something like copying the tracking number out of an email to paste into the DHL tracking page in the browser is something I do all the time.

    I held my finger down, I tried using the menu, nothing worked. No copy and paste out of an email in K9.

    I am disappointed in the lack of consistent & user friendly selecting & copying on the incredible.
    Last edited by l.a.rossmann; 05-10-10 at 12:18 AM.
    05-10-10 12:01 AM
  12. maxiang's Avatar
    Copy and paste on this phone SUCKS.

    You keep your finger down until you get a menu to select text in boxes.

    This is inconsistent with the browser, where it is more like the storm(but more responsive) where I touch the beginning, hold my finger down, then touch the end and it selects.

    Why can't I just copy and paste out of boxes like that? It is so counter intuitive the default way I find myself just retyping things.

    And don't get me started on copying out of K9.

    YOU CAN'T.

    Now: I have not researched the issue much, because I don't feel I should have to. I do intend to, because something like copying the tracking number out of an email to paste into the DHL tracking page in the browser is something I do all the time.

    I held my finger down, I tried using the menu, nothing worked. No copy and paste out of an email in K9.

    I am disappointed in the lack of consistent & user friendly selecting & copying on the incredible.
    Sad to hear about the copy/paste. I had thought that HTC had implemented the same system they used in the browser throughout all the text areas.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-10-10 12:21 AM
  13. DrewCSchultz's Avatar
    Copy and paste on this phone SUCKS.

    You keep your finger down until you get a menu to select text in boxes. You also keep your finger down to bring up the menu that allows you to start and stop selecting.

    This is inconsistent with the browser, where it is more like the storm(but more responsive) where I touch the beginning, hold my finger down, then touch the end and it selects.

    The problem is if I keep my finger down on one part too long while selecting, I get the damn menu. This gets annoying quick.

    Why can't I just copy and paste out of boxes like that? It is so counter intuitive the default way I find myself just retyping things.

    And don't get me started on copying out of K9.

    YOU CAN'T UNLESS YOU ENTER REPLY MODE. and there is no reply button. You have to hit menu, then hit reply. Or hit menu, then hit send. There is no send button.

    Now: I have not researched the issue much, because I don't feel I should have to. I do intend to, because something like copying the tracking number out of an email to paste into the DHL tracking page in the browser is something I do all the time.

    I held my finger down, I tried using the menu, nothing worked. No copy and paste out of an email in K9.

    I am disappointed in the lack of consistent & user friendly selecting & copying on the incredible.
    Its not just the Incredible, its Android devices in general. For some reason, different areas have different methods of copypasta. I like how in the text message app you just select the message an it'll copy the whole thing. But in the browser, I have to press menu, more, select text, then actually select the text, press menu again, and press copy. That's way to many button presses.

    The email app is a bit different. The Android email app acts more like a browser and views the email in native HTML, unlike a blackberry which downloads the contents to the email app for complete user control (the android email app acts similar to the news/weather widget if you'll notice, where you can't copy text either). My guess as to why Google does this is for syncing purposes, and allowing you to have all the functionality of webbased gmail quickly. But I could be off base, and yea it sucks if you're trying to copypasta, because the only way to do that is hit reply.

    I've mentioned a couple times across the boards about inconsistencies across the android platform. Weird though, because I thought the whole purpose of Sense UI was to patch up those holes to make a more cohesive user experience.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    05-10-10 03:27 AM
  14. howarmat's Avatar
    He is using k9 which is NOT the default email program. The default email programs works just as it should like the other txt areas.

    For me it works easily, easier than the storm which took a little to master and still has some flaws.
    05-10-10 04:42 AM
  15. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    Does the default mail program work more like the browser with copy and paste or more like the text boxes where you have to deal with that god awful menu nonsense?

    The problem I have with bringing up the select text menu is that as I am selecting text, that menu will come up, because the only requirement to bring it up is to rest your finger in a text box.

    The storm 1 took me time to master but only because on 4.7 the "handles" with which you had to select text were smaller than a baby gremlin's privates.

    The thing with the storm was that even on 3rd party apps there was consistency with these kinds of things.

    On here there is no unity. The default mail app has no push. I don't want to choose between push and a basic copy/paste.
    05-10-10 05:38 AM
  16. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    Does the default mail program work more like the browser with copy and paste or more like the text boxes where you have to deal with that god awful menu nonsense?

    The default mail app has no push. I don't want to choose between push and a basic copy/paste.

    The problem I have with bringing up the select text menu is that as I am selecting text, that menu will come up, because the only requirement to bring it up is to rest your finger in a text box.

    The storm 1 took me time to master but only because on 4.7 the "handles" with which you had to select text were smaller than a baby gremlin's privates.

    The thing with the storm was that even on 3rd party apps there was consistency with these kinds of things.

    On here there is no unity. I don't want to have to rely on "default" applications to have basic functionality.
    05-10-10 05:40 AM
  17. howarmat's Avatar
    default mail operates the same as the default broswer for me.

    Touch the text and the share, copy etc box along with the 2 selection tools to move around to select the text.
    05-10-10 06:27 AM
  18. jeffmeden's Avatar
    Man, you guys are bumming me out! Before the Incredible release I was really considering upgrading as soon as my renew window came up, mostly because I am a gadget junkie. Now, it sounds a lot more like the Incredible will be bleeding edge for a while yet. My storm 1 does everything I need, the battery lasts at least 2 days on a charge, and best of all it's already paid for. Upgrading just to get a slightly nicer browser (especially since I rarely use the browser anyway, apps are for phones and web pages are for PCs) just isn't worth it at all. Wake me up when the Android platform has a killer app.
    05-10-10 08:15 AM
  19. DrewCSchultz's Avatar
    default mail operates the same as the default broswer for me.

    Touch the text and the share, copy etc box along with the 2 selection tools to move around to select the text.
    So that IS one of the areas that Sense patched up. Just watched this video and now I'm not sure why you're complaining l.a.rossman... that's much better than what I'm working with, LOL.



    I think I may load up the Incredible ROM until Froyo is released.
    05-10-10 09:58 AM
  20. DrewCSchultz's Avatar
    Man, you guys are bumming me out! Before the Incredible release I was really considering upgrading as soon as my renew window came up, mostly because I am a gadget junkie. Now, it sounds a lot more like the Incredible will be bleeding edge for a while yet. My storm 1 does everything I need, the battery lasts at least 2 days on a charge, and best of all it's already paid for. Upgrading just to get a slightly nicer browser (especially since I rarely use the browser anyway, apps are for phones and web pages are for PCs) just isn't worth it at all. Wake me up when the Android platform has a killer app.
    If you're perfectly happy with your Storm than I wouldn't suggest upgrading at all. No sense getting a new device, especially if you can hold out there will be even better devices coming down the pipe.

    I love my Android, but I'm no fanboy, and this is going to be a great year for Smartphones. I'm interested to see what Windows Phone 7 has coming out, but I won't be an early adopter again... It's just too risky. I'm also really interested to see what HP does with Palm. Alot of people look down their noses at WebOS, but I can't tell why. WebOS is an excellent operating system, and some of the coolest smartphone hacks happening right now are for the Pre. I'd like to see what more money and a larger company to throw their weight behind them will do for Palm.
    05-10-10 10:05 AM
  21. howarmat's Avatar
    So that IS one of the areas that Sense patched up. Just watched this video and now I'm not sure why you're complaining l.a.rossman... that's much better than what I'm working with, LOL.



    I think I may load up the Incredible ROM until Froyo is released.
    right its just like that, easy as pie to use IMO
    05-10-10 10:23 AM
  22. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    So that IS one of the areas that Sense patched up. Just watched this video and now I'm not sure why you're complaining l.a.rossman... that's much better than what I'm working with, LOL.



    I think I may load up the Incredible ROM until Froyo is released.
    It is like that in the browser.

    NOT like that copying out of SMS, K9, or anything else.

    Ask him to take a video of selecting text out of a reply box in K9, or even worse, in SMS. Can you even copy non essential data(not phone numbers or URLs) out of SMS?

    If the copy and paste were like that in every app I would not be complaining at all. That is some beautiful copy and paste.
    Last edited by l.a.rossmann; 05-10-10 at 10:51 AM.
    05-10-10 10:49 AM
  23. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    Man, you guys are bumming me out! Before the Incredible release I was really considering upgrading as soon as my renew window came up, mostly because I am a gadget junkie. Now, it sounds a lot more like the Incredible will be bleeding edge for a while yet. My storm 1 does everything I need, the battery lasts at least 2 days on a charge, and best of all it's already paid for. Upgrading just to get a slightly nicer browser (especially since I rarely use the browser anyway, apps are for phones and web pages are for PCs) just isn't worth it at all. Wake me up when the Android platform has a killer app.
    Even considering everything I have ****** about, I would not go back to any blackberry of their lineup right now if you paid me to. I am just too used to having a zooming phone that never ******* up.

    If it's a choice between paying for exchange mail so I can have push and use the default mail app or dealing with K9 and not getting exchange mail, I'll deal with K9 for now.
    Last edited by l.a.rossmann; 05-10-10 at 10:54 AM.
    05-10-10 10:50 AM
  24. howarmat's Avatar
    in SMS you dont have the copy/paste but if you tap the SMS it will bring up a 'details' screen with the contact name, number and the link so you can click whatever field you want and take whatever action you want (ie follow the link)
    05-10-10 11:11 AM
  25. l.a.rossmann's Avatar
    I like that about it.

    The first time I took issue with the copy and paste functionality of the incredible, my friend has something that splits up SMS that are more than 160 chars. It split up a URL. I was going to copy and paste each portion to put it back together, but I couldn't because it didn't recognize either, and I can't copy & paste individual pieces. On the storm I could've made this work.
    05-10-10 01:30 PM
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